Chi of a beautiful person

[starhawk]

What is it about beautiful people? Also, why do good guys finish last? ;P

 

I suppose many of us wonder sometimes about beautiful people. Also, why is it hard for 'good guys' to meet beautiful women? I know its a matter of yin and yang balance, too.. Is that why good guys-- who probably have less testosterone and are less aggressive-- are often pushed aside?

 

Apparently, many women like dominating men. This was mentioned awhile ago by non when he talked about masochism in the animal world.

 

Firstly, I would note that the spiritual progress of a person is their true beauty. But right now I'm wondering about appearances . I know its connected somehow, but is it really? Can we answer this without metaphysical postulation such as oh, good karma. Are people looking to their own deficiencies?

 

There are many types of Chi. It's also yang/yin concentration in a person. So, is being androgynous the perfect balance? What am I missing? Should I instead do exercises to bring testosterone through the roof?

 

Practice can improve your own appearance, yes. How hard is it to talk to a beautiful woman? Is there some emotional block that prevents people from approaching them? The heart is willing, but the mind blocks it? What about luck? Even if she likes you, why do some people (like me) walk away? Am I selfish not to act in reciprocity?

 

Just curious, that's all. Not intending to open a can of worms. What do bums think?

[effilang]

I have never been aggressive in my courting women and i get pretty much whoever i choose. It is easy. You just have to look average and have a good sense of self-respect and esteem.

 

Then approach women, not with aggression, but with love and care and you will get who you want.

 

The aggression that is normally thrown around as a requirement in my experience normally comes up AFTER a trust has been established between the two partners and not before, otherwise aggression at first face during the initial phase of courting is normally considered a negative trait.

 

There are big differences between aggression, cockiness, confidence, self-esteem, arrogance etc.

 

Yin within Yin + Yin within Yang >> Yin/Yin Yin/Yang >> FAIL

Yin within Yang + Yang within Yin >> Yin/Yang Yang/Yin >> WIN

Yang within Yang + Yang within Yin >> Yang/Yang Yang/Yin >> FAIL

 

Women look for the women in men and men look for the men in women (In a non-gay way), but both want someone of the opposite sex.

 

Trust me. It happens subconsciously.

Edited May 10, 2011 by effilang

[Sloppy Zhang]

What is it about beautiful people?

 

It's in the eye of the beholder.

 

Also, why do good guys finish last?

 

They don't. It's the people who don't work well in relationships that finish last. In all areas. Period. It has nothing to do with being "nice" or not.

 

I suppose many of us wonder sometimes about beautiful people.

 

I do wonder about myself quite often. But I guess that's part of the self exploration gig, huh?

 

Also, why is it hard for 'good guys' to meet beautiful women?

 

It isn't.

 

Is that why good guys-- who probably have less testosterone and are less aggressive-- are often pushed aside?

 

You either are an alternate account of Non, or have been latching on to far too many of his posts.

 

Apparently, many women like dominating men. This was mentioned awhile ago by non when he talked about masochism in the animal world.

 

And apparently all men like dumb blond chicks.

 

Wait, you mean each person is different? Zomg no way!!!!

 

Yeah, the above two lines were sarcasm.

 

Firstly, I would note that the spiritual progress of a person is their true beauty.

 

And duly noted it is!

 

But right now I'm wondering about appearances . I know its connected somehow, but is it really?

 

If you know, then why are you asking?

 

Ever met a strikingly beautiful man/woman who was a horrible person? Who was a great person? Ever met a strikingly unattractive man/woman who was a horrible person? A great person?

 

No direct correlation that I can tell.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Sloppy Zhang]

Can we answer this without metaphysical postulation such as oh, good karma. Are people looking to their own deficiencies?

 

Past experiences play a part. An attractive person realizes they can game the system because they are hot. They become cynical in the process. An unattractive person sees this, and becomes bitter and jealous because they cant' do the same.

 

Conversely, attractive people realize that all of their relationships have been shallow and without meaning, so they look at other traits. Unattractive people realize that people who judge them aren't worth their time, and move on with their lives.

 

And every other possible scenario in between.

 

Of course, these terms like "attractive" and "unattractive" are INCREDIBLY relevant.

 

How hard is it to talk to a beautiful woman?

 

About as hard as it is to verbally produce sounds and string them together into some coherent language.

 

Is there some emotional block that prevents people from approaching them?

 

Or past experience. Or any number of things. If someone like, say, Non, would actually open up and give specifics about past actions, either people here, or a therapist, could help them get to the root of the issues.

 

The heart is willing, but the mind blocks it?

 

Possibly.

 

What about luck?

 

Can't talk to people you never meet. Don't worry about shit you have no power over. You'll go mad.

 

Even if she likes you, why do some people (like me) walk away?

 

I dunno. Depends on each person's hangups. Talk it out with us or a therapist to figure out what your particular situation is.

 

Just curious, that's all. Not intending to open a can of worms. What do bums think?

 

I think you need to find some of Non's past threads, and read very carefully the advice that was given. Particularly with regards to learning how to form healthy relationships IN GENERAL (not just specifically romantic ones), and betting YOURSELF and working out your own issues before you throw another person into the mix.

[Gerard]

[Romie]

It's been my experience that some people who complain that nice guys don't get anywhere, identifying themselves as the nice guy, are generally assholes and can't identify when they're not being all that nice. The rampant misogyny in the posts that ask this question are a good example of this.

 

PS- when this question is asked, I don't get the feeling that the people asking are looking for a partner or an equal (especially when "beauty" and hotness are mentioned), but that could just be my past experiences clouding my judgment.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Romie

[Maddie]

It's been my experience that some people who complain that nice guys don't get anywhere, identifying themselves as the nice guy, are generally assholes and can't identify when they're not being all that nice. The rampant misogyny in the posts that ask this question are a good example of this.

 

good insight Romie!! I'll say again what I posted on non's thread this morning, if the problem is that you feel bad about this topic, and if you feel what you feel on the inside (and you do) then the answer is not to focus your attention externally, but within on what causes you to feel bad about it in the first place.

[starhawk]

Thanks bums. Hehe. Maybe I am stirring up the hornet's nest after all...

 

I don't think I am a misogynist. I have a respectable attitude towards women, but I had been posing the question in a way that makes me sound like a frustrated adolescent boy. Haha...

 

Perhaps to correct course of this thread, let us talk about motive and philosophy, and tradition. That is what I was looking to address, not Political correctness in my writing.

 

I'm just trying to pinpoint basal animal instincts from a biological perspective-- more biological than by social/cultural upbringing-- in human persons.

 

Here I examine psychological motive, a primal base function of the male intellect, as well as male responses to lust and attractiveness, not sociological conventions and how to address people, or the proper courting attitudes and behaviors of males and females. Sorry to touch on your nerves.

 

 

It seemed my wording has touched on sociological conceptions. I am addressing merely philosophical and psychological underpinnings of why people may act the way they do, in particular males.

 

 

What does it mean to be proper? Perhaps I am just addressing this merely as social commentary even. I'm not even trying to offend people or females in particular . Perhaps you should be more sympathetic to a male's one-sided observation about the behavior of other males.

 

About misogyny-- this is not a forum on Political correctness. I am also not a journalist. Forgive me for not including specifying adverbs like "some" males, or "some" nice guys finish last. Again, this is psychology. Perhaps female readers can ponder sterotypes about that shy choir boy who always blushed when talking to the pretty girl and the football player who gets the prom queen.

 

Perhaps the female reader can take a look at what our society is being fed-- why do many men read maxim, or the like, etc? Perhaps it is an innate male response to our training? Why do men value woman's beauty in psychological surveys?

 

Perhaps you can explain why women read romance novels? That's right, they are fantasizing. This is my explanation of why men are lustful-- and their sexuality manifests in particular ways, dominant and submissive. I am looking at power structures, a philosophical concept. Can you explain that without misogyny?

 

The old traditions would say this is all hogwash, wordplay to be corrected by self-examination and less ego. But perhaps I have aided in my own and other people's introspection.

Edited May 10, 2011 by starhawk

[starhawk]

It's been my experience that some people who complain that nice guys don't get anywhere, identifying themselves as the nice guy, are generally assholes and can't identify when they're not being all that nice. The rampant misogyny in the posts that ask this question are a good example of this.

 

PS- when this question is asked, I don't get the feeling that the people asking are looking for a partner or an equal (especially when "beauty" and hotness are mentioned), but that could just be my past experiences clouding my judgment.

 

Speculating... What if, perhaps the guy isn't clever enough or just doesn't have enough wordplay/social skills/proper etiquette to realize he is a jerk?

 

Have you ever seen "The name of the rose?" The adolescent boy in the movie isn't clever enough because that is the first girl he met

[Sloppy Zhang]

Thanks bums. Hehe. Maybe I am stirring up the hornet's nest after all...

 

Don't give yourself that much credit. People being taken aback at skewed way of thinking and writing (which often reflects thought, even if some things just don't come across well on the internet) should not be mistaken for you striking a nerve.

 

I don't think I am a misogynist.

 

(emphasis mine)

 

Well see in society and in communication, what we think we are saying or doing doesn't much matter, it's how other people are going to perceive it.

 

I'm just trying to pinpoint basal animal instincts from a biological perspective-- more biological than by social/cultural upbringing-- in human persons.

 

Here I examine psychological motive, a primal base function of the male intellect, as well as male responses to lust and attractiveness, not sociological conventions and how to address people, or the proper courting attitudes and behaviors of males and females. Sorry to touch on your nerves.

 

(emphasis mine)

 

You claim to not be a misogynist, but you write from an extremely male-centric point of view. Though I would not use this as evidence to claim misogyny, it does lead me to wonder about the scope of your thought. But I digress....

 

The problem is, those basal forces are ALWAYS shaped by society. Internal drives mixing with the external.

 

In less "civil" days, you lust after someone, so you conquer their homeland and take what you want.

 

In more "civil" days, you go through various stages of courtship.

 

In any case, be it buying someone lavish gowns or clunking them over the head, behavior with regards to how men channel their natural passions are ALWAYS shaped by society. Not to mention what they very often find to be attractive is also shaped by society.

 

Now I just so happen to be a man, so I'm just writing from the male POV. I'd be interested to hear female perspectives on the topics of how natural passions are expressed in society.

 

About misogyny-- this is not a forum on Political correctness. I am also not a journalist.

 

Neither of which screen out misogyny, but that's neither here nor there...

 

Again, this is psychology. Perhaps female readers can ponder sterotypes about that shy choir boy who always blushed when talking to the pretty girl and the football player who gets the prom queen.

 

Wut?

 

Perhaps you can explain why women read romance novels? That's right, they are fantasizing. This is my explanation of why men are lustful-- and their sexuality manifests in particular ways, dominant and submissive. I am looking at power structures, a philosophical concept. Can you explain that without misogyny?

 

The issue that pops out at me is your seeming interest in coming down one way or another- men do this, so they are in control. Women do this, so they are submissive. There are so many give and takes on so many levels, that you can argue it either way!

 

But society has created categories which are valued, so you may tend to focus on them, for instance, the football player and the prom queen example.

 

The old traditions would say this is all hogwash, wordplay to be corrected by self-examination and less ego. But perhaps I have aided in my own and other people's introspection.

 

On what basis do you make this statement?

 

When you are looking at things like this (you mentioned that this is psychology), it is ALL relative. You MUST designate what and where your frame of reference is. Define your terms. Narrow the search field.

 

Speculating... What if, perhaps the guy isn't clever enough or just doesn't have enough wordplay/social skills/proper etiquette to realize he is a jerk?

 

Well you can't do much about cleverness or teaching wordplay. But part of what happens when you "grow up" is that you became "socialized"- you learn what behaviors are acceptable or unacceptable. You start to learn what cues mean. You learn and practice social scripts, etc etc etc. You learn the etiquette, and you learn what peoples' nonverbal responses are.

 

It's not like everyone "has it" or "not"- you learn as you go.

 

If you are inexperienced, then the only way to overcome that is to *get* experience. And the only way to do that is by doing.

 

It will be awkward.

 

It will be emotionally (and maybe even physically) painful.

 

But most people go through all of this in middle and high school. By then, assuming they don't move to a new culture, they've learned all of the cues and are good to go.

 

And look- most people can tell if someone is socially awkward right from the start. If you think you are hiding anything by holding back, you aren't. But the thing is, most people who aren't total jerks are going to cut you some slack. And if they don't, forget about them, they are jerks.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Non]

It's been my experience that some people who complain that nice guys don't get anywhere, identifying themselves as the nice guy, are generally assholes and can't identify when they're not being all that nice. The rampant misogyny in the posts that ask this question are a good example of this.

 

PS- when this question is asked, I don't get the feeling that the people asking are looking for a partner or an equal (especially when "beauty" and hotness are mentioned), but that could just be my past experiences clouding my judgment.

 

and they're being assholes because they dont know any better?

 

so why blame?

 

dont you find it ironic that you're calling the "nice guy's" jerks when they're complaining of the assholes women go out with as opposed to more nicer guys? How are they assholes in the first place? Maybe asshole is not exactly the word. Ignorant maybe?

 

I thought asshole meant someone who deliberately insults and hurts others knowing what he does but even then..

 

who can you blame about ANYTHING? Everyone is the way they are because it's just the way they are. They know not. But sometimes it can trigger emotions in others just like me.

 

There can be some questionable one's though right? Like weirdos, psychos, creeps, killers, the guy who kills people in Bally Total Fitness (because that's just the representation of every nice guy right?) and I can be an asshole if I want to. But if I'm an asshole? that may be up for debate.

 

maybe you misunderstand many self proclaimed "nice guys".

 

I know. Using the word "nice guy" and "bad boy" is wayy too polarizing at times. I dont know any other way to explain the double standards women might use to filter out the 'attractives' and 'unattractives'. So something 'bad' is something a woman doesn't care to judge something a 'badboy' or attractive male does while the unattractive male is seen as a creep, weirdo, immature, demon, etc.

 

You also have to note it's only guys that can be labelled any of the sort like creep, etc. because in general men are bigger/scarier than women and women don't usually do the approach. I'm just saying.

 

And I wish that women could do the approach because nowadays just about anything a woman says goes.. she can say you're a creep because you looked at her in the same way an attractive guy does.

 

Men have more of a chance at scaring women simply because of the way they look. This is why I have trouble sometimes approaching girls because I dont want to come off as too aggressive or scare her. Sometimes it seems more right if the woman at least gives a signal or something so it doesn't look like I'm being aggressive. Anyways the women usually are the choosers right? The guys are the fucking beggars. Unless he's an alpha male.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Non

[markern]

and they're being assholes because they dont know any better?

 

so why blame?

 

 

 

Women don`t know any better either! So why blame them?

[Maddie]

Like yourself, then others might follow the trend

[manitou]

I have to say that when I was in my 20's and 30's I was truly a beautiful woman.

 

But I also have to say that I didn't have very many dates. The reason was, that I had no self-esteem at all, nothing but self-loathing. If a bashful man had seen me at that time, he probably would have been intimidated to come up to me. I wish he would've; I probably would have met some of the nicer men that treated me better. As it was, I usually ended up with the A-holes in the bars; the ones I'd usually end up in a big donnybrook with and then someone would strangle me because of my horrible alcoholic ways at the time.

 

I'm just saying....don't assume so much about beautiful women. They may not be what they seem. They may be dying inside.

 

Now I've come to understand that in order to Find what we want, we have to first Be what we want.

[markern]

Strawhawk I recommend you read no more mister nice guy. I forgot the name of the other but you can find it if you google it. I also recommend you read some of david deidas books especially the way of the superior man. Also google 60yearschallende and read his blog and read his antimanifesto. Also go to charismaarts.com and buy the ebook. If the compiled archieves aren`t for sale any more you can find them on fastseduction.com. They are golden.

[Non]

Strawhawk I recommend you read no more mister nice guy. I forgot the name of the other but you can find it if you google it. I also recommend you read some of david deidas books especially the way of the superior man. Also google 60yearschallende and read his blog and read his antimanifesto. Also go to charismaarts.com and buy the ebook. If the compiled archieves aren`t for sale any more you can find them on fastseduction.com. They are golden.

 

See, No More Mr Nice Guy isn't even a good book. Neither is David Deida's sexist crap.

 

And 60 yrs of Challenge? You seem to just promote PUA all over.

 

And it's the same msg: be a respectable asshole, be an asshole in a socially acceptable way.

 

It's the reason why women still like a-holes that women fall for these PUAs.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Non

[ShaktiMama]

It's been my experience that some people who complain that nice guys don't get anywhere, identifying themselves as the nice guy, are generally assholes and can't identify when they're not being all that nice. The rampant misogyny in the posts that ask this question are a good example of this.

 

PS- when this question is asked, I don't get the feeling that the people asking are looking for a partner or an equal (especially when "beauty" and hotness are mentioned), but that could just be my past experiences clouding my judgment.

 

write this down in gold and place it above the tao bums banner.

s

[Non]

Thanks for calling me an asshole.

 

At least you said SOME are assholes. But I'm pretty sure you mean if not all then most.. because the fact is most men are assholes. Like in the 90-ish percent more or less.

 

I talk about my observations without any direct name calling and then I get called names.

 

It always happens with the same types of guys who talk about what's going on.. because I'm not the only one. At least I'm not like some of the others who just don't care what goes out his mouth or what he types. I do, but I also try to be honest and sincere.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Non

[Non]

Women don`t know any better either! So why blame them?

 

 

well.. it may seem like I am. And it may be that I am.. I'm just frustrated. You know I'm always honest. Usually anyways... or at the right time.

 

Anyways, it does seem like a lot of them are deliberate though, with their own justifications as to why.

 

In the end it's usually guys like us that are hurt the most, whether it's right or wrong.

 

You seen the Karate Kid right? Would you call the main character an asshole?

Edited May 10, 2011 by Non

[ShaktiMama]

Thanks for calling me an asshole.

 

At least you said SOME are assholes. But I'm pretty sure you mean if not all then most.. because the fact is most men are assholes. Like in the 90-ish percent more or less.

 

I talk about my observations without any direct name calling and then I get called names.

 

It always happens with the same types of guys who talk about what's going on.. because I'm not the only one. At least I'm not like some of the others who just don't care what goes out his mouth or what he types. I do, but I also try to be honest and sincere.

 

 

In my experience, most men that I meet are not a$$holes.

I love and adore most of the men I know and I am particularly fond of alphas. They also know how much I love them. They love me back and give me respect. I can also say to them, "you are behaving like an a$$hole, stop it."

 

You gotta love yourself first, and not in an a$$hole,PUA, hubric way.

 

Smart, wise Women love authentic confident gentlemen. Wins out over "hotness" any day.

s

[Non]

And what do you expect? If men are the aggressive of the sexes, and I'm still a virgin at 25 then that's a lot of aggression turned inwards.

[Non]

 

Smart, wise Women love authentic confident gentlemen. Wins out over "hotness" any day.

s

 

Yea... well hotness is considered any day when speaking of short term pleasure.. before anything long term is considered.

 

Usually anyways..

[ShaktiMama]

And what do you expect? If men are the aggressive of the sexes, and I'm still a virgin at 25 then that's a lot of aggression turned inwards.

 

I did advise you before to see a peer of mine, Angelique. She has great skill in helping bring self awareness to people who have complaints like yours around self esteem and male/female relationships.

 

You are obviously not getting the help you seek in Bums. You are using bums as a crutch and as a way to not get help?

 

s

[Eric23]

Beauty and ugliness have one origin

Name beauty, and ugliness is.

Recognizing virtue recognizes evil.

 

Is and not is produce one another.

The difficult is born in the easy,

long is defined by short, the high by the low.

Instrument and voice achieve one harmony.

Before and after have places.

 

That is why the sage can act without effort

and teach without words,

nurture things without possessing them,

and accomplish things without expecting merit:

 

only one who makes no attempt to possess it

cannot lose it.

 

TTC chapter 2 (Hamill)

 

 

Since this is a Taoist discussion forum.

[ShaktiMama]

Yea... well hotness is considered any day when speaking of short term pleasure.. before anything long term is considered.

 

Usually anyways..

 

you are never going to make progress when you have an excuse for why something won't work for you instead of looking at yourself inside Your outside world (what you perceive to be happening to you) is a mirror of your subconscious thoughts and feelings.

 

i am done now...

 

good luck,

s