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Taomeow

Conversations with Homer Simpson on taobums

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and so it goes whenever Homer feels like teaching Lisa:

 

"Lisa: Dad, don't you think you're overreacting?

Homer: Don't you think you're underreacting?

Lisa: This conversation is over.

Homer: This conversation is under.

Lisa: Goodbye.

Homer: Badbye."

 

Well, Lisa usually feels frustrated after one of these, and me -- I feel stupid for getting myself into one of these.

So --

does it ever happen to anyone else, and what do you do about it? :)

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Don't get into complicated discussion with simple minds.

If you notice people can't handle the truth, tell them they 're right even when they're wrong

and wish them well

Edited by zazaza

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Well, Lisa usually feels frustrated after one of these, and me -- I feel stupid for getting myself into one of these.

So.....

It's obvious. Have you ever considered accepting Jesus as your personal Savior?

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and so it goes whenever Homer feels like teaching Lisa:

 

"Lisa: Dad, don't you think you're overreacting?

Homer: Don't you think you're underreacting?

Lisa: This conversation is over.

Homer: This conversation is under.

Lisa: Goodbye.

Homer: Badbye."

 

Well, Lisa usually feels frustrated after one of these, and me -- I feel stupid for getting myself into one of these.

So --

does it ever happen to anyone else, and what do you do about it? :)

 

Well, what's relevant to a Daoist context is the fact that Lisa allowed herself to be dominated by conditioning. i.e let your emotions be dependent on rejection or acceptance. So why not start with continuously letting go of the idea of gain or loss.

 

But she's honestly recognizing her reaction, so I'd guess she's way more mature than most of us. Recongition is half the process, from what I've heard.

 

I personally tend to be abit like Homer, who is alot like Hagar...

 

h

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It's obvious. Have you ever considered accepting Jesus as your personal Savior?

 

I considered that once but realized that I didn't need to be saved from anything and gave up on the thought.

 

Peace & Love!

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and so it goes whenever Homer feels like teaching Lisa:

 

"Lisa: Dad, don't you think you're overreacting?

Homer: Don't you think you're underreacting?

Lisa: This conversation is over.

Homer: This conversation is under.

Lisa: Goodbye.

Homer: Badbye."

 

Well, Lisa usually feels frustrated after one of these, and me -- I feel stupid for getting myself into one of these.

So --

does it ever happen to anyone else, and what do you do about it? :)

Absolutely.

Some random thoughts about forum sparring...

One thing that I find really helps me is that I try to use it as an opportunity to learn more about myself. Questions come up like:

Why am I posting in the first place?

What am I really doing and on whose behalf?

Why am I replying and to whom?

Why am I reacting in a certain way because somebody doesn't share my perspective or intentionally wants to be argumentative?

All great stepping off points for self-investigation.

 

The other thing is that I reached a point where I just don't care that much if anyone agrees with me.

In part, it's because I'm not as sure as I used to be that I really "know" anything worth sharing.

Whether I tell someone something or not generally does very little for either of us.

Allowing the other person to feel like they "won" can sometimes be an act of compassion that makes me feel better than "winning.

 

Interesting topic for discussion, I often find myself observing my forum behavior and I find some interesting things out about myself from this.

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Well, what's relevant to a Daoist context is the fact that Lisa allowed herself to be dominated by conditioning. i.e let your emotions be dependent on rejection or acceptance. So why not start with continuously letting go of the idea of gain or loss.

 

Well this mostly.

 

I learned a long time ago that no matter what you say people are going to make their own opinions. Sometimes they will hear what you say and think about it, use it, sometimes they will reject it, and sometimes they won't even listen to you.

 

The only thing you can do is say your peace, put it out there, then leave it. It's up to them to accept or reject it, and you have no control over that. Do what you feel you need to do, but try to focus on what YOU do, not the other person.

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There is also the gender dynamic which probably has more to do with it than Homer will admit.

Many men will refuse to surrender intellectually to a woman. Even men who think they are free of the patriarchal mindset will sometimes exhibit symptoms of intellectual gynophobia.

Would the same conversation have happened if it were Bart who accused Homer of over-reacting?

Edited by darebak

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Great insights, venerable sages!

 

It's obvious. Have you ever considered accepting Jesus as your personal Savior?

yeah, but that's where I turn into Homer:

"God knows I've never been very religious... but if you're out there... please... please save me, Superman!"

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Great insights, venerable sages!

 

 

yeah, but that's where I turn into Homer:

"God knows I've never been very religious... but if you're out there... please... please save me, Superman!"

 

Or one of his other great quotes: "I'm not gay but I'll learn"

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Absolutely.

Some random thoughts about forum sparring...

One thing that I find really helps me is that I try to use it as an opportunity to learn more about myself. Questions come up like:

Why am I posting in the first place?

What am I really doing and on whose behalf?

Why am I replying and to whom?

Why am I reacting in a certain way because somebody doesn't share my perspective or intentionally wants to be argumentative?

All great stepping off points for self-investigation.

 

The other thing is that I reached a point where I just don't care that much if anyone agrees with me.

In part, it's because I'm not as sure as I used to be that I really "know" anything worth sharing.

Whether I tell someone something or not generally does very little for either of us.

Allowing the other person to feel like they "won" can sometimes be an act of compassion that makes me feel better than "winning.

 

Interesting topic for discussion, I often find myself observing my forum behavior and I find some interesting things out about myself from this.

 

I've come to the conclusion that arguing online should be purely for entertainment's sake. It can be lots of fun if you don't take it seriously or care about the outcome.

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I didn't realize what the "topic" was until after reading a number of posts. I thought there was some underlying yin/yang wisdom in the Homer/Lisa exchange I wasn't getting, lol.

 

In every Homer there is a Lisa, and vice-versa.

 

I gave up on the circular debates years ago. I just (try to) drop out of the thread and don't open it anymore. I try to avoid starting them myself, but I guess it happens some times. It used to be really bad at the TRS website forums and that's where I went though my fire trial. I don't see it happening here so often, which is nice, refreshing :D

 

One thing that I find really helps me is that I try to use it as an opportunity to learn more about myself. Questions come up like:

Why am I posting in the first place?

What am I really doing and on whose behalf?

Why am I replying and to whom?

Why am I reacting in a certain way because somebody doesn't share my perspective or intentionally wants to be argumentative?

 

With virtually every post I ever send, in any forum, I go through that same, well, a similar, process, and usually have to take a deep breath before hitting "send". Not from self-doubt but from the sense that, to me, in the end, there's really nothing to talk about. Not really. Paper, Rock, Scissors.

 

But then, what's the point of joining a discussion board if you don't discuss shit? Also, as dreaming said, the entertainment factor is a biggie ;)

 

I think it's very sad when someone gets obsessed and overpassionate about interaction in the online world (or any other virtual place). But we all go through phases and learning processes and it's not for me to judge where the experience is leading the person.

Edited by soaring crane

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I think it's very sad when someone gets overpassionate

Homer: I think it's very sad when someone gets underpassionate :lol:

 

Me (the Lisa in me) has no problem with disagreement, arguing, OR passion --

 

I just feel that arguing for the sake of arguing is not arguing, it's bullying. Darebak picked up on that I think, though it's not limited to male-female dynamics. Lisa (the original Lisa Simpson) does argue a lot, but not in order to get the upper hand, she argues in order to establish the truth or common sense or whatever, human rights, animal rights, soul rights? She's into "the right thing." (This can get annoying too, especially considering her intellectual and moral superiority.) Homer, however, argues for the sake of winning the argument, and "truth" and "the right thing" are immaterial to him -- what matters to him is to overpower. Indeed, it's not as frequent here as I've seen elsewhere (thank god), but whenever a discussion takes this particular turn, I start having second thoughts about "the whole thing."

 

Oh, and "why discuss anything at a discussion forum at all" is a separate topic. (I know why I do it. :) )

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Oh, and "why discuss anything at a discussion forum at all" is a separate topic. (I know why I do it. :) )

I've been through a number of phases regarding my understanding of "why" I post on boards.

 

This is a bit embarrassing but I will share it anyway as I think it is an opportunity for growth.

I find myself often concerned with how my own posts read and the responses they stimulate.

What does that say about me and my motivation for posting?

I won't go into that but it's an eye opener for me.

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I find myself often concerned with how my own posts read and the responses they stimulate.

What does that say about me and my motivation for posting?

I won't go into that but it's an eye opener for me.

 

No, we don't need to go into that. Understanding is what is important here. ;)

 

Peace & Love!

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I've been through a number of phases regarding my understanding of "why" I post on boards.

 

This is a bit embarrassing but I will share it anyway as I think it is an opportunity for growth.

I find myself often concerned with how my own posts read and the responses they stimulate.

What does that say about me and my motivation for posting?

I won't go into that but it's an eye opener for me.

 

Very important insight. Actually more so than what we write about.

Been through some similar experiences myself.

Funny thing, after I stopped caring about how my posts were read, or somebody was disagreeing with Hagar, I always seemed to become the "threadstopper".

Interesting, yet not for anybody else...

 

I stark opposition to many I find that its really important to get into your story, and the motivation behind stuff.

Its actually what makes the difference.

 

h

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I stark opposition to many I find that its really important to get into your story, and the motivation behind stuff.

Its actually what makes the difference.

 

h

You'll find no opposition from me on this one. I too am much more interested in how and why people have arrived at a particular emotional/spiritual/intellectual etc. destination than in hearing declarations about it. The stories that are most likely to move, inspire, or at least not antagonize me go something like,

"I was A, I was doing B because unbeknown to me I needed C but instead they did D to me, so not knowing any better I responded with E, the outcome was F, therefore now I'm G, but since this isn't the outcome I'd settle for for all eternity, I am working toward H using J which I learned from K, and so far the results are L but I do believe that M is possible because I've seen N and read about O and was blown away, and have this gut feeling about P..." and so on. Connected stories of the process whereby one comes to know oneself... ...you look at one of these and, provided it's honest, whether it's "right" or "wrong" truly disappears -- not as per an empty declaration that "there's no right or wrong" or some such backed up by hearsay and nothing else.

 

To err is human;

to refuse to consider a possibility of error in one's reasoning, beliefs, education, scope of knowledge, capacity for understanding experiences (whether one's own or someone else's) is assinine.

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I too am much more interested in how and why people have arrived at a particular emotional/spiritual/intellectual etc. destination than in hearing declarations about it. ... Connected stories of the process whereby one comes to know oneself... ...

 

Same here in a big way. My eyes glaze over when I read directionless posts that never pull themsleves out of the theoretical or religious dogma to move into solid practice.

 

This is really what attracted me to Daoist methods in the first place. The methodic experimentation (in the search for the pill and or mushroom of immortality), the willingness to research new ideas, adapt practices from other cultures, keep the good, discard the bad, re-test the norms and adjust them as needed. No sacred cows. Sacred cows clog the road.

 

Now, sacred birds, well.... lol.

 

To err is human;

to refuse to consider a possibility of error in one's reasoning, beliefs, education, scope of knowledge, capacity for understanding experiences (whether one's own or someone else's) is assinine.

 

Repeated for emphasis, can't possibly add anything to it. It should be posted at the top of the website in boldface.

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Yup,

oughta print up posters.

To err is human;

to refuse to consider a possibility of error in one's reasoning, beliefs, education, scope of knowledge, capacity for understanding experiences (whether one's own or someone else's) is assinine.

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So --

does it ever happen to anyone else, and what do you do about it? :)

What a fabulous coincidence!

I have the opportunity to observe myself in such a situation yet again.

 

:D

 

First, I replied concisely and directly.

Then, I attempted to disengage with humor.

Next, I yielded with a mildly derisive comment.

Finally, I laid out my feelings about the whole affair and intend to let it go but who really knows where it will go from here. I never quite know what I'm going to say next.

 

Taomeow, I'm beginning to believe that you may actually have some 'subtle' power!

:shudder:

:)

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You'll find no opposition from me on this one. I too am much more interested in how and why people have arrived at a particular emotional/spiritual/intellectual etc. destination than in hearing declarations about it.

You like others to share personal stories, but what about you? The last personal story you shared, you deleted and said you regretted sharing. This puzzles me.

 

I like it when you share.

 

 

For my part, here is some personal sharing.

 

I discovered this place because when I first started researching Taoist practices, I kept getting linked here from google. I read lots of inspiring things by people who are no longer around. I realized that this place provides a unique service to seekers, one that remains after we are gone. I joined so that I could be helpful to others, as I perceived others had been helpful to me, keeping in mind that what I posted would remain a service to others into the future.

 

I spend so much energy on the posts I write. I try to be so careful to weigh all the meanings and interpretations of what I write to get across what I want to say in the clearest way with the least chance of misinterpretation. But that's only the beginning. After I post, there is fretting if I really said it in just the right way, checking back for responses, and feeling obligated to respond to those. There are so many threads I have wanted to contribute to but something held me back, saying "That would take more energy than I am willing to give." I have spent large amounts of time and energy carefully crafting a post, only to realize that actually putting it out there would be too much of a drain. I'm such a perfectionist, I put such a load on myself. For what? I've made so many posts and immediately thought "Why did I do that? What good did that do?" Once someone told me something like "there's a preview post button, why don't you use it?" That really hurt.

 

Whatever high minded goals I have for my posts, my neuroses creep in. My need to be right and sound smart, my compulsive over-analysis. Being contradicted is painful, especially if it is by someone I respect. When someone says something that I don't like I come down hard on them in a offensive and patronizing way (if I ever do this to you, take it as a complement because I probably wouldn't say anything if I didn't respect you somewhat).

 

So what of all this? What a wonderful opportunity for growth!

 

That applies to interacting with the Homer Simpsons around here too. I try to avoid them, but I've had a few bouts.

 

Well, to be fair, no one is a Homer Simpson, they just happen to act like one at a particular time (some more frequently than others).

 

Best wishes to you all.

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You like others to share personal stories, but what about you? The last personal story you shared, you deleted and said you regretted sharing. This puzzles me.

 

I like it when you share.

For my part, here is some personal sharing.

 

I discovered this place because when I first started researching Taoist practices, I kept getting linked here from google. I read lots of inspiring things by people who are no longer around. I realized that this place provides a unique service to seekers, one that remains after we are gone. I joined so that I could be helpful to others, as I perceived others had been helpful to me, keeping in mind that what I posted would remain a service to others into the future.

 

I spend so much energy on the posts I write. I try to be so careful to weigh all the meanings and interpretations of what I write to get across what I want to say in the clearest way with the least chance of misinterpretation. But that's only the beginning. After I post, there is fretting if I really said it in just the right way, checking back for responses, and feeling obligated to respond to those. There are so many threads I have wanted to contribute to but something held me back, saying "That would take more energy than I am willing to give." I have spent large amounts of time and energy carefully crafting a post, only to realize that actually putting it out there would be too much of a drain. I'm such a perfectionist, I put such a load on myself. For what? I've made so many posts and immediately thought "Why did I do that? What good did that do?" Once someone told me something like "there's a preview post button, why don't you use it?" That really hurt.

 

Whatever high minded goals I have for my posts, my neuroses creep in. My need to be right and sound smart, my compulsive over-analysis. Being contradicted is painful, especially if it is by someone I respect. When someone says something that I don't like I come down hard on them in a offensive and patronizing way (if I ever do this to you, take it as a complement because I probably wouldn't say anything if I didn't respect you somewhat).

 

So what of all this? What a wonderful opportunity for growth!

 

That applies to interacting with the Homer Simpsons around here too. I try to avoid them, but I've had a few bouts.

 

Well, to be fair, no one is a Homer Simpson, they just happen to act like one at a particular time (some more frequently than others).

 

Best wishes to you all.

edit: Great post, Creation! ( and great conversation, Crane! -- pardon my accidental mis-attrubutuion. I didn't mix up the two of you, just the names. :) )

I turn all mushy when people actually behave as conscious beings. Of course "know thyself" is a prerequisite. As a Hindu sage once put it, you can't transcend what you don't know.

 

As for a personal story I deleted, it's just that I realized I placed it in a wrong context, is all. This, by the way, is a posting problem of mine... I might talk about me more than necessary sometimes, but I also have stories for which there's no "right" context. Since to me all my stories are just one story, some of them sometimes seep where I didn't intend them to... Certain ones... the ones I know as universal rather than personal truths because some access to some universal truths is part of my personal story -- but.. see how it sounds? What will the most likely reaction be if I make a peep, whether explicit (god forbid) or merely inferrable, about having had some very close encounters with some universally applicable truths of a very difficult kind?.. "How dare you?!" "Universal truths?... Meow for yourself, your truths have no merit in my world! Woof! Woof!!" :lol:

 

So if I catch myself writing something that I know will be perceived as far-fetched or far out in most worlds (and yet I'm not a far-out person, I've just traveled far out in some far-out directions and brought back some weird souvenirs) , then I might delete. (I'm not as bad as Winpro though -- his motto is "I destroy all I create" -- but then, his stories are farther out than mine! :) )

 

What a fabulous coincidence!

I have the opportunity to observe myself in such a situation yet again.

 

:D

 

First, I replied concisely and directly.

Then, I attempted to disengage with humor.

Next, I yielded with a mildly derisive comment.

Finally, I laid out my feelings about the whole affair and intend to let it go but who really knows where it will go from here. I never quite know what I'm going to say next.

 

Taomeow, I'm beginning to believe that you may actually have some 'subtle' power!

:shudder:

:)

Didn't you mention two feet of snow you just had to shovel? and you think you "shudder" because of my subtle power? :lol:

Edited by Taomeow

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