acid/LSD question

[zazaza]

The difference between acid & meditation is that with meditation - the results come much more slowly and you can controll it.

 

With LSD, there is no controll.

That's not true. Except the odd exception, almost everyone can control themselves.

When one believes he cannot control his mind, then ofcourse his mind will control him...

UNTILL he retrieves faith in himself.

 

 

 

I guess one of the biggest problems with LSD is that if someone is sensitive to psychosis that it could bring it out for long periods of time - or very rarely: permanently.

 

I have had several incredibly terrible psychedelic trips in a period of only 6 weeks,

during the time of these bad trips (8 hours each) i had totally lost it - i was psychotic.

but always after the drug wore off, i became normal again.

 

(even though during the trip, i thought i had been insane for maybe years already)

 

 

 

a very small percentage of all people who get psychotic during the trip don't come back to normal

immediately after the drug wears of.

why? something physical? something mental?

 

evidence suggests that had a person not taken LSD or mushrooms, then cannabis or alcohol...

or perhaps even sobriety would have possibly lead the person subsceptible to psychosis

to eventually become psychotic.

 

people say that intense or traumatic experiences brings out psychosis in people subsceptible to them.

in that case you can't really blame the drug, as the drug would have just been a catalyst.

 

 

 

contrary to these beliefs,

i believe that drugs like lsd bring out psychosis in people where otherwise it would not have happened.

but it really does not happen all that much!

 

is the risk to have that spiritual experience worth it though? maybe.

if u really want that spiritual experience fast, i think it's better to try the other -non drug- ways first

because they are probably safer. (although i have heard of people becoming psychotic during yoga sessions too, cause they couldn't ground the energy )

 

In some people, simple meditation techniques, chanting mantras (power sounds), basic breathing practices, or sitting in the presence of a powerful spiritual teacher can activate kundalini. So can sexual orgasms, ecstatic religious experiences, trance dancing, and psychotropic drugs. Although these latter stimulators of kundalini generally don't result in a sustained arousal (that is, the energy becomes naturally dormant again after the experience ends)

 

for the people who become psychotic from drugs

antipsychotics might slow down or prevent the natural healing process of the brain.

on the other hand, sometimes a psychosis is really too much even for a day.. and then antipsychotics are the first choice,

 

but they should be used for as little time as possible.

so in these worst case scenarios, i would suggest 1 week of antipsychotics maximum...

 

then be sober for 1, 2 or 3 weeks and if psychosis still exists too strong try antipsychotics again for another week.

before trying antipsychotics,

 

the psychotic person should practice meditation to try and ground himself.

an energy healer might help to ground too...

Edited December 18, 2009 by zazaza

[One love]

Edited December 18, 2009 by One love

[steve]

 

 

Number 1 rule when dealing with anything unknown: Know your body, know your substance, know your mind.

 

Exactly -

 

Herein lies the rub...

 

Who of us really know our bodies and how they will react to a substance never previously ingested?

Who knows what substance is being ingested unless you manufacture and measure it personally?

Who of us really know our mind completely?

The OP is looking for unchartered territory (ego death, first trip, and so on...) so I would wager that he/she does not know their mind at a very deep level. Certainly not enough to predict the effects of LSD.

 

Psychedelics are potentially hazardous, potentially entertaining, and under optimal circumstances can be educational although the price can be very high.

Buyer beware and good luck!

 

PS - I would agree that a guided experience with a credible ayahuescero would be far preferable to copping some acid on the streets...

Edited December 18, 2009 by steve f

[lino]

 

Would say that to him if he was deciding to get a driver's licence or going bungee jumping ? And bringing his family into this is a fucking low punch and you know it.

 

 

"Low punch", I don't think so. Telling somebody of the consequences that they may experience

is the best thing that anybody can do for another person.

 

My family is still hurting from the stupid decisions that I made.

 

I have one medical bill to worry about because I was put in the wrong hospital. I thank a higher power

that it wasn't several medical bills. The person may not be able to AFFORD a bad trip if the so-called

"remedies" don't work.

 

As far as "knowing your mind" you are disillusioned if you think you "know your mind".

It has taken highly cultivated people years or decades for them to "know their mind".

Edited December 18, 2009 by lino

[Old Man Contradiction]

I have one medical bill to worry about because I was put in the wrong hospital. I thank a higher power

that it wasn't several medical bills. The person may not be able to AFFORD a bad trip if the so-called

"remedies" don't work.

 

It would take an uninformed mind to think taking someone who was having a bad trip to the hospital was a good idea. ODing on hallucinogens is really hard to do, sometimes impossible, and a first timer usually doesn't have the money or desire to buy that much.

[Hyrdo]

Thx everyone for the replies. I guess alot of people didnt understand or pay attention to my "(in before "don't do it, its bad for you")" disclaimer. Was basicly saying i didnt want arguments about its dangers. I suppose for some people you would need to reinforce the potential dangers to them and you guys dont know me personally so...

 

Rest assured, if i do try it, it will be as calculated as possible.

[One love]

I got angry when reading this thread. I can still feel the anger when I read some of the replies but I don't want to continue down that road.

 

We can play sematics and 0,1% all day but when you argue with people, you only reinforce their belief.

 

"Psychedelics are potentially hazardous, potentially entertaining, and under optimal circumstances can be educational although the price can be very high."

 

And with saying "Amen, brother" to the quote above I'm ending my posting in this thread since I have no real experience with ego death.

[lino]

It would take an uninformed mind to think taking someone who was having a bad trip to the hospital was a good idea. ODing on hallucinogens is really hard to do, sometimes impossible, and a first timer usually doesn't have the money or desire to buy that much.

 

Oh?

 

How would you like to have the "hallucination" of a "new world" open up and find out that these "hallucinations" have some control over your body and can make you feel like you are physically burning...or feel like you are getting stabbed at and cut?

 

What would you do in order to make it stop?

 

I found out that "anti-psychotics" DO NOT WORK.

 

I was into something that was WAY OVER MY PAY-GRADE and may still be in it more than two years after the fact. Also, I didn't take drugs.

 

It takes years, decades, and maybe centuries to become the stable person that would be able to handle that kind of situation.

 

Do you really want to expose Hydro to needless suffering that he or she may not be able to handle?

 

The "bad trip" from the chemical may end but do you want to get stuck in the "new world" for years trying to find a way to get out?

 

Keep in mind that there are over 2 million schizophrenics in the US. Go see what kind of a lifestyle they live.

 

Do you want to be responsible if Hydro's quality of life takes a dramatic and crippling drop?

 

It may not hurt you because you'll never see Hydro or what happens to him or her...since what you see is what I see, a whole bunch of text on the screen of a computer.

 

Do you want to see the possibility of Hydro getting the thorns without the roses?

 

 

 

Also, you just aren't dealing with the temporary "effects" of a drug. You are dealing with the dramatic weakening of the body's energy field which would take months and maybe years to recover from. Why do you think that a master or teacher says not to do it?

Edited December 18, 2009 by lino

[voidisyinyang]

A study in an Australian hospital has identified a spike in out-of-control "werewolf" patients when a full moon is out.

 

There were 91 emergency patients rated as having violent and acute behavioural disturbance at the Calvary Mater Newcastle hospital from August 2008 to July 2009.

 

Leonie Calver, a clinical research nurse in toxicology, said almost a quarter of the cases (23 per cent) occurred on a night of full moon and this was double the number for other lunar phases.

 

The patients all had to be sedated and physically restrained to protect themselves and others.

 

"Some of these patients attacked the staff like animals - biting, spitting and scratching," Ms Calver said.

 

"One might compare them with the werewolves of the past, who are said to have also appeared during the full moon."

 

Ms Calver said werewolf mythology included reports of people rubbing "magic ointment" onto their skin or inhaling vapours to induce the shirt-rending transformation from man to beast.

 

The main ingredients were belladonna and nightshade, she said, both substances that could produce delirium, hallucinations and delusion of bodily metamorphosis.

 

Ms Calver said it appeared the "modern-day werewolf" preferred alcohol or illicit drugs, as more than 60 per cent of the patients reviewed in the study were under the influence.

 

"We don't know if its more fun to use drugs and alcohol under a full moon or if their behavioural disturbance is directly influenced by the moon," she said.

 

"Our findings support the premise that individuals with violent and acute behavioural disturbance are more likely to present to the emergency department during...full moon."

 

The research is published in the pre-Christmas edition of the Medical Journal of Australia.

 

Source: The Age

http://www.theage.com.au/national/hospital...91213-kpwl.html

[zazaza]

"Psychedelics are potentially hazardous, potentially entertaining, and under optimal circumstances can be educational although the price can be very high."

Very well put.

Also, I didn't take drugs.

what ticked you off then?

 

a certain spiritual technique? or did it just happen out of the blue?

Edited December 18, 2009 by zazaza

[fiveelementtao]

Also, you just aren't dealing with the temporary "effects" of a drug. You are dealing with the dramatic weakening of the body's energy field which would take months and maybe years to recover from. Why do you think that a master or teacher says not to do it?

Any respected energy teacher will tell you this... energy work is about strengthening your energies through the discipline of meditation and energetic exercises. Drugs will destroy your energies and takes no discipline, thus weakening the mind,...

Please take note that only younger people are recommending drugs as a viable alternative to spiritual discipline. I do not hear anyone over the age of fourty recommending drugs...

I used alot of drugs as a kid. It took YEARS of hard work just to get back to normal... Go visit a 50 or 60 year old who still uses drugs, please tell me how spiritual they are.

Then go find a 70 or 80 year old Taoist or Yogic master and ask how much drugs they take...

 

Those advocating drug use on this forum are not speaking from any state of achievement. Will all love and respect, if you choose to follow the advice of people with no experience... You are responsible for the aftereffects...

[voidisyinyang]

94 year old Ayahauscero curandero shaman

 

 

Any respected energy teacher will tell you this... energy work is about strengthening your energies through the discipline of meditation and energetic exercises. Drugs will destroy your energies and takes no discipline, thus weakening the mind,...

Please take note that only younger people are recommending drugs as a viable alternative to spiritual discipline. I do not hear anyone over the age of fourty recommending drugs...

I used alot of drugs as a kid. It took YEARS of hard work just to get back to normal... Go visit a 50 or 60 year old who still uses drugs, please tell me how spiritual they are.

Then go find a 70 or 80 year old Taoist or Yogic master and ask how much drugs they take...

 

Those advocating drug use on this forum are not speaking from any state of achievement. Will all love and respect, if you choose to follow the advice of people with no experience... You are responsible for the aftereffects...

[fiveelementtao]

94 year old Ayahauscero curandero shaman

 

Yes, and as you know. In traditional circles... Ayahuasca is done after lengthy purification rituals which are designed to bring down divine protection. These rituals are thousands of years old and the process isstill intact.There is a huge difference between taking ayahuasca infrequenlty under the protection of a master shaman and an 18 year old kid dropping acid by himself. Any true master shaman healer will also freely tell you that if you use drugs without divine protection, you can be killed! and many times a shaman will tell someone NOT to partake in the RITUAL. You know this. This practice is well established within their culture. And as a cultivator you KNOW that these same effects can be achieved through energy practices without drugs and without any negative side effects.

Drew, I know you know what facts you are leaving out. I know you know better.

With All due respect... Don't BS me...

[zazaza]

Any true master shaman healer will also freely tell you that if you use drugs without divine protection, you can be killed!

how so?

[voidisyinyang]

I did DMT in my room in full-lotus -- 5 hour death defying trip -- I called it "being fucked by God" and "the rainbow vortex of reality." I wouldn't do LSD though.

 

Yes, and as you know. In traditional circles... Ayahuasca is done after lengthy purification rituals which are designed to bring down divine protection. These rituals are thousands of years old and the process isstill intact.There is a huge difference between taking ayahuasca infrequenlty under the protection of a master shaman and an 18 year old kid dropping acid by himself. Any true master shaman healer will also freely tell you that if you use drugs without divine protection, you can be killed! and many times a shaman will tell someone NOT to partake in the RITUAL. You know this. This practice is well established within their culture. And as a cultivator you KNOW that these same effects can be achieved through energy practices without drugs and without any negative side effects.

Drew, I know you know what facts you are leaving out. I know you know better.

With All due respect... Don't BS me...

[Hyrdo]

For me acid is the easiest hallucinogen to get. Maby ill look more into these DMT sites tho.

[frp]

[fiveelementtao]

how so?

Because it is well known in traditional cultures that employ powerful hallucinogens in their spiritual traditions that there is very real danger to using them. The danger is both physical and spiritual. these drugs open up spiritual gateways. If one does not know how to navigate, they can get lost. If one does not know how to deal with the spirits they can kill you, take you prisoner etc... The Shaman traditionally sometimes spends days in fasting and purification getting the PERMISSION and PROTECTION of the spirits before the ritual. And many times the Shaman will be there to protect those taking the ritual. It's not a party. It's serious business. many times he will be told by the spirits not allow certain people to partake in the ritual.

So, how can someone die? The spirits can kill them. they can go crazy... If taking these drugs were so safe and easy, why do think that Master shamans are necessary? for protection. If you take these drugs out of their traditional context and use them without proper knowledge and protection they are very dangerous.

Edited December 19, 2009 by fiveelementtao

[C T]

For me acid is the easiest hallucinogen to get. Maby ill look more into these DMT sites tho.

What you ought to really look into is abstinence, Hyrdo.. your body is like a temple - treat it with

the respect it deserves, and listen to those who have been where you intend to go, and listen

wisely. Please.

[voidisyinyang]

[fiveelementtao]

I did DMT in my room in full-lotus -- 5 hour death defying trip -- I called it "being fucked by God" and "the rainbow vortex of reality." I wouldn't do LSD though.

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't want to get F***ed by God... Maybe I'm interpreting that wrong.

Drew... I challenge you to ask your teacher Chun yi lin if he thinks taking hallucinogens of any kind for cultivation purposes are a good idea... I would be very interested in his response...

[Guest paul walter]

Wow, didnt even think that was posible, sounds very interesting.

I really hate defining myself now but yeah it seems as tho my mind has like mild ADD and little patience. I feel as tho its my subconscious enforcing this even more but not sure how to unprogram it. I'll like try chi gong or simple meditations but i dont feel like i get anything from them. Seems so hard for me to clear my mind. Also, i dont have the meens to eat healthy so im sure thats not helping. Recently iv been really focusing on letting go of my ego. I had always wanted to try cid but now i feel even more incentive.

 

maby you or someone could help me from that little rant?

 

 

Mild ADD, instant ego death, little patience, don't have the means to eat healthy --I think you've just described your want to do acid as escapism (from the self! ). Definately the wrong reason to do anything. Try diet and Klamath Lake Blue Green Algae and DHA supplements to get your brain in order before experimenting on your mind/body simply because you don't wt to explore healthier, harder and more complete options. Paul

[Nilo]

Well if you choose to keep taking acid day after day then ya you will get fried BUT if you do it once in a while then it can be VERY helpful depending on the intentions of the individual.

 

 

 

 

Lsd is synthetic and considered a carcinogen by the medical community and also it does permanently rewire your synapses, creating DNA changes, etc. I've known a few people permanently fried from LSD.

Edited December 19, 2009 by Nilo

[voidisyinyang]

Ha! I'm not qualified to be Chunyi Lin's "real" student! haha. The ayahuasca opens up the kundalini for real -- it's a very very powerful experience -- but I'm only describing it in terms of full-lotus third eye meditation. I did have visions of Chunyi Lin and Jim Nance AND the Bushmen healers who were singing on the c.d. player. haha. I think it is the Level 4 Rainbow meditation level -- very deep healing.

 

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't want to get F***ed by God... Maybe I'm interpreting that wrong.

Drew... I challenge you to ask your teacher Chun yi lin if he thinks taking hallucinogens of any kind for cultivation purposes are a good idea... I would be very interested in his response...

[fiveelementtao]

For me acid is the easiest hallucinogen to get. Maby ill look more into these DMT sites tho.

What is so good about easy? Oy... I give up.... I never thought I would become the old fart...This IS a taoist forum right? When did taoism become synonymous with easy or with dropping acid...What does either of those things have to do with Taoism???

Ok.. time for me to retire from this thread... Anger and frustration can be as much a drug as anything else...

Bye...