Lucky7Strikes Posted August 28, 2009 (edited) The "as above so below" law applies here, though, so the physical reflects the development or refinement of the energy body. Great quote. In the beginning the retention process is necessary because we are so habitually attached to a bodily identity. To "de-condition" from this view, one must use the body in reverse (literally) led by the mind. It gets things going, lays down the foundation. Masturbation is a weird activity anyway. Give it a thought. . As for sex, you should give when demanded! Edited August 28, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted August 28, 2009 I don't think masturbation is weird. Of course it's not, because nearly everyone does it (seriously, like 99% of human beings do it...and animals do it as well). I think that "thinking" things are weird is denying a part of who we are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Kabalabhati Posted August 28, 2009 Sex drive and sexual energy cannot be the same thing. My sexual desire used to be the highest when tired and drained of energy. I think when a man is in a weakend state it's natural to (obsessively) want to fertilize a woman before he is too weak to do it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted August 28, 2009 That's an interesting point. I agree. I didn't mean "drive" to mean "sexual desire." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrahridaya Posted August 28, 2009 I don't think masturbation is weird. Of course it's not, because nearly everyone does it (seriously, like 99% of human beings do it...and animals do it as well). I think that "thinking" things are weird is denying a part of who we are. I agree! I learned a lot about my energy and about how to be a better lover through controlled masturbation. Or rather... disciplined energy work type masturbation with specific intentions to become more of an evolved healer and lover. So... again, intentionality is all the difference between bondage of, or liberation from and while. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sunya Posted August 28, 2009 what is masturbation except chasing after pleasure and bliss through self indulgence? looking at porn.. well, that's just adding the biological instinct to mate into the mix, giving more 'fuel' and 'passion' to the act. mmm nice curby boobs (good for milk) and nice hips (birthing hips) and nice ass (again, birthing). i've thought a lot about this. just because masturbation is natural doesn't mean you should do it. we are all ignorant too, does that mean we should stay ignorant because its 'natural' ? what does natural mean? and is it necessarily the direction we want to go in if we are searching for truth? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrahridaya Posted August 28, 2009 what is masturbation except chasing after pleasure and bliss through self indulgence? looking at porn.. well, that's just adding the biological instinct to mate into the mix, giving more 'fuel' and 'passion' to the act. mmm nice curby boobs (good for milk) and nice hips (birthing hips) and nice ass (again, birthing). i've thought a lot about this. just because masturbation is natural doesn't mean you should do it. we are all ignorant too, does that mean we should stay ignorant because its 'natural' ? what does natural mean? and is it necessarily the direction we want to go in if we are searching for truth? This is all true from a certain perspective. What you need to go through in your renunciation is a certain realization that can only happen through renunciation. What you renounced you will re-embrace with a different view that should not be given to you, but realized for yourself. As what seemed simple and stupid before, will reveal new complexities and beauty of this glorious play. So, please... keep with this outlook that you have while you renounce the causes of your currently despised actions. Take care! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Kabalabhati Posted August 28, 2009 (edited) Why is arousal between man and woman considered sacred but arousal within one's self often as something not sacred? I see self-arousal as a potentially sacred act, meaning if you don't complicate it with the "dirt of mind" it will not be dirty and if you smile at it it is very pure, whether used for cultivation purposes or not. It's all a part of life that as a whole is sacred, whether we want to see it that way or not. now I'm starting to sound too holy to be true Edited August 28, 2009 by King Kabalabhati Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrahridaya Posted August 28, 2009 Why is arousal between man and woman considered sacred but arousal within one's self often as something not sacred? I see self-arousal as a potentially sacred act, meaning if you don't complicate it with the "dirt of mind" it will not be dirty and if you smile at it it is very pure, whether used for cultivation purposes or not. It's all a part of life that as a whole is sacred, whether we want to see it that way or not. now I'm starting to sound too holy to be true It really is only sacred if one actually experiences it to be so... As it's not the action that damns but the inner interpretation of thus that does. By faith are we liberated. Faith = perception, contemplation, interpretation... into experience of. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mal Posted August 28, 2009 Yes, different methods. But I am referring to a specific method of cultivation, not simply making love but utilizing the ejaculation and energy contained as a catalyst to part the curtain, then pulling the energy, refined by Spirit back in. Upon further reflection I feel all of the description and attributes of moving energy etc are already included in my current concept of "making love" If only I could get out of my mind more and just be present in the now........ at least practicing is great fun. Why is arousal between man and woman considered sacred but arousal within one's self often as something not sacred? I see self-arousal as a potentially sacred act, meaning if you don't complicate it with the "dirt of mind" it will not be dirty and if you smile at it it is very pure, whether used for cultivation purposes or not. It's all a part of life that as a whole is sacred And if you can't love yourself how can you expect others to want to love you I have no issues with the different viewpoints on this topic. Everyone is just explaining their experiences which is great IMHO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrahridaya Posted August 28, 2009 at least practicing is great fun. The ability to share that "fun" is why the Buddha said..."May all beings experience the causes of happiness". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeremy Posted August 28, 2009 (edited) I am joining SereneBlue in a 100 days of pure celibacy (meaning with myself as well!) experiment. I did this last winter and did notice a difference, and had some breakthroughs in my qigong practice. Unfortunately, I had two nocturnal emissions during that time. I feel I have better control now so shall see what happens! As I've become more sensitive to my body from all my qigong & meditation lately, I also have felt "depletion" and other mild but odd symptoms from ejaculation. Edited August 28, 2009 by Jeremy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mal Posted August 30, 2009 L1 PS: I'm already one vs. three, so there's no point in going on with the debate, all i hope is our discussion will give each of us some threads for furthering our personal research... that' all I like diversity in viewpoints. Something you made me ponder re:sexual experiences. I've had sex that leaves me exhausted and tired but I've had sex that leaves me invigorated and energized. Sometimes EJ feels very draining, but sometimes it feels really energizing. I feel there is a love vs lust variable in there as well as just physical actions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrasattva Posted August 30, 2009 Also if you are with the right woman she can energize you backup even more than when you where before you ejaculated. so again things are relative. Give & Give with an open heart and love and allow flow to occur. be moderate in all that you do. Shakti will always take care of you Love S Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
宁 Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) I like diversity in viewpoints. Something you made me ponder re:sexual experiences. I've had sex that leaves me exhausted and tired but I've had sex that leaves me invigorated and energized. Sometimes EJ feels very draining, but sometimes it feels really energizing. I feel there is a love vs lust variable in there as well as just physical actions. I'll add something up just to make you ponder even more TCM tonics in fact increase sexual energy... the difference is that the body uses it for repairing itself. Meditation in fact increases your sexual energy... the difference is that the soul and spirit are nourished. Whether we talk health or acheivement, sexual energy is involved as 'prima materia'. If you flush it out, there is no way to build internal power, EJ functions like a... valve, or... i belive the term is bleeder. Think about it this way: the strenght of the chain is equal to the strenght of it's weakest ring. I belive I already said too much Sorry I couldn't answer the other problem, but I think you'll find out the sollution, with so much experiencing, one only needs to look closer... the answer is pretty obvious. Edited August 30, 2009 by Little1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky7Strikes Posted August 30, 2009 I agree! I learned a lot about my energy and about how to be a better lover through controlled masturbation. Or rather... disciplined energy work type masturbation with specific intentions to become more of an evolved healer and lover. So... again, intentionality is all the difference between bondage of, or liberation from and while. That's not masturbating. That's sexual kung fu! People generally masturbate for pleasure, but also because of the frustration of not knowing how to handle the sexual energy (well at least I did). This can manifest into all kinds of mental problems. King Kabalabhati is right: The energy itself is sacred (it creates and connects us all). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hyok Posted August 30, 2009 Today was a super-horny day. It was tough. I began backward-flow meditation but the whole time I was rock-hard and kept thinking about the Chinese masseuse who gives happy endings. It was one of the most sexually frustrating days i've had in a while. Then I began to jerk it, but I wasn't thinking about sex or girls, basically just not thinking of anything other than orchestrating the flow of sexual energy from my cock to the root chakra to the waterwheels of the dan tien. In my mind I could see the sexual energy mixing with psychic energy and then saw/felt it flowing up the spine and becoming spiritual energy. After 15 minutes of doing this, I wasn't frustrated anymore. It was like a moderate sense of relief - not entirely pleasurable but better than sober reality. I feel energized. This event could just be the manifestation of time passing, but it seems different. There was some sort of sublimation that happened. I don't know. Will keep you guys updated as I continue the practice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrahridaya Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) That's not masturbating. That's sexual kung fu! "Iron Crotch Kung Fu"? This event could just be the manifestation of time passing, but it seems different. There was some sort of sublimation that happened. I don't know. Will keep you guys updated as I continue the practice. I don't doubt that sublimation happened as your intention seemed intense and focused. Edited August 30, 2009 by Vajrahridaya Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky7Strikes Posted August 31, 2009 "Iron Crotch Kung Fu"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
