senseless virtue

The first draft of chapter 9 is finished, bringing this project one step closer to completion. Only chapter 10 and Ge Guolong's postscript remain. Donations are still deeply appreciated, especially to help with the potential costs associated with hiring a proofreader to help with the many rough edges that surely mar this translation. My thanks go out to the many people who have helped bring this project so close to the finish line.

 

A sample from chapter 9 is below:

 

_______

 

The Green Pine Temple here in Hong Kong belongs to the Complete Reality school of Daoism. The original spirit of this tradition was embodied by its founder, Wang Chongyang. Wang Chongyang taught that to cultivate the Dao is to seek “complete reality.” This work is not accomplished through any sort of external rituals, but through making jing, qi, and shen whole, which makes whole both one’s life as well as the brightness of one’s fundamental essence. Wang taught his students to transcend all external concerns such as success, fame, wealth, and rank, and instead to return to the home of the heart. In Daoism, this process is described by the term that serves as the title for this chapter: “Going back to the root, returning to the source.”

 

To go back to the root and return to the source is to trace backwards to where our lives originally came from—the Dao—in order to obtain harmony and liberation therein. Once our later heaven lives take shape, the tendency of our jing, qi, and shen to dissipate outwards takes us further and further away from the source. Going back to it liberates us.

 

There is a well-known phrase that expresses the underlying principles of internal alchemy: “Go with the current and remain mortal; counter the current and transcend.” This phrase alludes to the two directions that the universe’s evolution unfolds in, as well as the two directions in which the skill we develop in cultivation can take us. Daoist cultivation’s worldview, life outlook, and basic theory of how to practice are all included in this phrase’s two main ideas, going with the current, and going against the current.

 

It is important to be aware that the notion of going with and against the current apply to specific contexts. If one is not clear about what these contexts are, there is a risk of developing a warped understanding of the teachings. For instance, Laozi, one of Daoism’s ancestral teachers, stated “the Dao follows its intrinsic nature.” Given that the Dao was originally said to “follow its intrinsic nature,” some scholars hold that internal alchemy amounts to a revolution in Daoist thought, in which the old teaching of following intrinsic nature was replaced with one of “going against the current.” However, scholars who think this way are operating on the basis of a major misunderstanding, which stems from the fact that they are unclear as to the frames of reference in which following the current and going against the current apply.

 

There is, in fact, no contradiction between ideas such as “go backwards against the current to become an immortal” and “the Dao follows its intrinsic nature.” Quite the opposite, the two teachings share the exact same essential meaning. The concept of “intrinsic nature” has two layers of meaning. One of these layers points to the realm of intrinsic nature realized by sages. This is the realm of wuwei, where one’s essential nature is integrated with that of the Dao itself. But there is another context in which the term “intrinsic nature” is used, in this case to describe ordinary people doing whatever comes naturally to them. When used in this way, “intrinsic nature” refers to people’s habituated characters; in this sense, “to follow nature” means to float along with the force of karma. If I was prone to getting drunk or taking drugs, I could very well ask, “aren’t I just following my nature? Aren’t I just going with the flow?” While that may be the case from a certain standpoint, this is not the type of “following intrinsic nature” that pertains to Daoist cultivation.

 

Just memorizing the lexicon of Daoist practice is not enough—one needs to directly experience its real meaning. Some people latch onto superficial meanings, thinking until the end of their days that “the Dao follows its own nature” means having carte blanche to live a life of debauchery, because that’s “just being natural.” The truth is that one must have reached a very high stage in cultivation to be able to follow intrinsic nature. At this stage, all the pretense, scheming, and divisiveness of the later heaven mind are gone. This is not a stage where one just goes along with spontaneously-arising human desires; rather, it is the stage of flowing with the self-arising suchness of the Dao.

 

_________

 

The prior heaven realm must be awakened to; the qi of habit in the later heaven realm must be refined; these two tasks must be accomplished in an integrated manner.

 

Gradual practice is a process of cleansing the heart, which is sometimes described in Daoist literature as “letting the human heart die so that the heart of Dao can come to life.” It was in reference to this process that Wang Chongyang called himself a “living dead man” and even named one of the places where he meditated “the Tomb of the Living Dead Man.” “Living” meant that he was, of course, still alive, but what had “died” was his “human heart.” This was another way of saying that he was no longer a captive of later heaven, self-centered thinking.

 

In Daoist circles one sometimes hears the phrase, “If you don’t want to die, then you’ll have to perish.” This meaning of this phrase is, “So you want not to die? You want to become a Daoist immortal? Well fine, that’s simple—the only thing you have to do is get your later heaven human mind to die!” Once the so-called human mind is gone, prior heaven original nature comes to life; the “heart of Dao” is then active, and because it is eternal, one can be said not to die.

 

This teaching is another place where the concepts of going with or against the current apply. To go with the current is to follow the “human heart,” which means having a mind that is prone to scattering itself outwards as it attempts to clutch onto this or that object or phenomenon. To go against the current requires dismissing the human heart, so that one can return to one’s prior heaven nature.

 

However, it needs to be clearly stated that what “letting the human heart die so that the heart of Dao can come to life” really describes is a result of practice, but not a way to practice. In terms of actual practice, the “human heart” and the “heart of Dao” are not two separate things that can be set against each other. One should not actually try to reject one’s human mind while chasing after the “Dao mind.” What these Daoist teachings describe is the awakening of wisdom, not an internal war waged against the ego. One has to realize what the human mind is at its base, not stubbornly struggle against it. The only correct way to “let the human mind perish” is to recognize that it is, by its very nature, empty. Suppressing, rejecting, or struggling with any aspect of one’s mind is mistaken practice.

On 11/6/2021 at 8:38 PM, moreira Filho said:

Hi. Can you tell more about the system and the results of the practice?

 

One article about Shuigong:

 

http://www.qigongchinesehealth.com/sleeping_qigong

 

 

Sifu John Dolic is the best person to answer your questions about the Shuigong system:

 

http://www.qigongchinesehealth.com/contact

2 minutes ago, dwai said:

So you had to talk about inserting copper wires into the rectum? Out of “admiration”? 

 

It's silly. The kriya purifications can be found likewise silly if you mentioned them to the average uninitiated and spiritually disinterested Westerners that these were parts of spiritual practice, or do you disagree? Humor is often made from contrasts.

 

Anyway, I don't want to argue, stir anyone's sensibilities any more on this, or continue with loose footing where I'm not granted any benefit of doubt.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, dwai. I appreciate them despite your distrust for me.

5 minutes ago, dwai said:

I don’t see the need for such vitriol.  
 

Do you really think it is necessary? if you don’t have anything constructive to contribute, best not to try and troll for a few laughs from the usual suspects. 

 

Think hard before responding.

 

Look, it was a light hearted response.

 

I could have brought up the Aghori and mention the left-hand path practices that are more wilder for sure, but I don't see why it's necessary to view the apparently puerile emphasis I presented as anything else than honest admiration. Seriously, I think it's really great that this type of protocols exist because they actually make sense unlike the the copper wire cultivation.

On 9/28/2021 at 6:18 AM, dwai said:

• Dhauti - washing the alimentary tract (controlled vomiting)
• Basti - yogic enema

 

And I had thought that copper wire into the rectum or into the male member were the coolest methods ever.

 

Support your local kriya yogis and yoginis! 

In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with the inner smile concept even if there are no traditional sources to give credence to it.

 

If you use gentle means in order to gain modest satisfaction and equanimity, then it's an innocent affair.

4 hours ago, escott said:

I'm not an expert on Dzogchen, but doesn't it's practice involve several types of meditation for this reason?

 

You are completely mistaken.

 

Dzogchen is about resting in the ordinary awareness without any contrived effort. It's even called non-meditation for that reason.

On 9/15/2021 at 5:51 PM, LoneWolf said:

I humbly request someone to inform me about the basics of cultivation, so that I can start practicing it.

 

Hello and welcome! You might like the following thread:

 

 

 

It's never wrong to develop more wisdom and insight as far as any meditation and cultivation practice goes.

@Apech A wrathful wisdom teacher.

Hi DrSomnibus!

 

Traditional martial arts are cool. What do you exactly practice?

 

@Zhongyongdaoist is very proficient with European hermetic tradition and its Neoplatonist past. Maybe you should look up what he has written around on TDB in case his approach resonates much more than Wicca.

 

This forum section could interest you:

 

https://www.thedaobums.com/forum/407-agrippa-textual-study/

32 minutes ago, Samoobramba said:

I asked for a review from someone who has this videos... Thanks.

 

Actually, you didn't specify anywhere that there should be personal experience or material possession of the videos. Good that you brought up your desire now afterwards.

 

If you don't trust the I Ching oracle and its interpretation for a good general indication that can pass for a very brief review, then it's your choice and completely ok.

6 minutes ago, Samoobramba said:

Anybody can put a review of the videos? Thanks.

 

What are the most important things TDB members should understand about this video series for the purpose of seal-learning and gaining some actual internal skill due to practicing according to its instructions?

 

(887978) 31 Influence: moving line 4 => 39 Obstruction

 

My interpretation of the I Ching: It's okay for learning external forms, but you would need to learn the internal skill through some other means.

6 hours ago, Fatuous said:

I'm practicing a certain form of spontaneous qigong that was transmitted to me by my instructor. (Not 5 Animals.) It's got 5 sections and a ritual to kick off each section that includes my hands in a certain position and saying a couple intonations & chinese words in my head. Different hand positions & words for each section. Spontaneous qigong involves letting go and allowing the qi to move the body, as opposed to intentionally moving the qi around. I always feel a release, unburdened, clearer, lighter after each practice.

 

Can you name the style or the instructor?

 

 

6 hours ago, Fatuous said:

practiced the same qigong earlier in the day with a group and participated in a "group healing" (presumably included qi transmission as well as the instructor singing certain tones).

 

This could be a problem. Spontaneous qigong as a group means that each of you are creating a field of energy that occasionally interacts, which can lead to experiencing karma and emotional layers of others. There should be some mechanism in the style that shields from excess karmic entanglement. Psychological grounding is especially important also, more so than with other qigong methods. Group healings and qi transmissions have the same issue, so you would have to trust that you don't receive any unpleasant karma from the other person in exchange.

 

 

6 hours ago, Fatuous said:

1) WTAF? but more importantly 2) Is there a spiritual danger in practicing spontaneous qigong? and 3) Is there a possibility that the gestures and phrases are somehow an invitation to enter me?

 

1) There are different types of spontaneous practice. If you can't trust the process, then it's not good to practice. In any case, spontaneous practice is supposed to be a minor phase in balancing the energy-body: Spontaneous moving lasts few years at most and becomes completely inactive when your energetic balance is settled. You could ask your instructor how long he has been doing it and ask his opinion whether continuing 5+ years of spontaneous practice is alright in his opinion.

 

2) It depends on the style and its principles of the spontaneous practice. The basic tenet of all qigong is that the peacefulness and stillness of the heart-mind leads to good health and progress. If you don't have peace because of the spontaneous work, then you should reconsider what you are doing. I myself have experience with a spontaneous style that was corrupt, so I know very well that there can be bad consequences with flawed teachings.

 

3) If there are gestures and esoteric components in the practice, then it's pretty difficult to guess what is the intended working mechanism. Nevertheless, I find the possibility of getting into spirit possession or entity attachment in one's aura, which is easier to get, to be negligible. The threshold for actual possession is high and even entity attachments require that your aura is weak due to ethical breaches or substance consumption. The danger in flawed qigong practice does exist and spontaneous styles are especially susceptible: emotional trance states are bad in this regard.

 

I'm paging @freeform because his teacher has much experience in treating deviations in spiritual practice.

 

In the meanwhile, listen to your own heart. What do you want to do really? Long walks in lush nature and charitable activities among people could really nourish your inner harmony and help you ground better.

5 hours ago, steve said:

@virtue

I just noticed this and will take care of it

 

Thanks a lot! I realized an essential issue though: The symbol that you used for my name's apostrophe is not the same I had intended, and as such there may be technical highlighting issues in the future if users have automatic curly quotation marks input enabled.

 

Let's make the user name entirely another one thus:

 

senseless virtue

 

Thanks in advance.

On 12/13/2019 at 3:40 PM, virtue said:

I wish my user handle to be renamed fool's virtue if it's alright.

 

Apparently it wasn't quite alright!

 

Do I really have to settle this with @idiot_stimpy on the Thunderdome, or would you require another renaming suggestion?

2 minutes ago, el_tortugo said:

I've been pondering this one from different perspectives:

 

Quote

“Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others.”
― Otto von Bismarck

 

 

Apt quote to identify one of the greatest schemers in the world history: Otto von Bismarck made a highly successful political career out of using people as pawns and he was in no way shy in making use of the flaws of others.

Gone.

4 hours ago, Dreamwalker said:

I’m wondering if some can share their experiences with Eric?

 

Search my posts with the word "isen". I recall I had shared some experiences or even given advice about consulting him in the past.

 

EDIT: There actually wasn't much record I had said in the past.

 

Eric is a friendly and professional guy, but I would caution about consulting any psychic and divination readings without cross-examination. I Ching would be my primary tool for most purposes.

 

Please see the following thread:

 

 

 

 

Quote

Do you practice each qigong exercise with him on the phone while he analyzes the effects?

 

No.

 

Quote

Or does he tune into your energy and see the individual/combined effects of all your practices while you just do nothing?

 

It's a minor siddhi and pure psychic clairvoyance as far as I understand. The relevant image forms in his mind simply through the intent of wanting to see the specified future outcome.

Gone.

1 minute ago, virtue said:

It seems that the oracle was making a humorous insight this time.

 

I also really want to emphasize to everyone that the oracle should be cross-examined with more questions especially if something feels out of place or puzzling. Now you understand why I had the caveat earlier!

@freeform The hexagram #2 actually makes sense: Being receptive and lead around. It seems that the oracle was making a humorous insight this time.

16 minutes ago, StillWater said:

Seems like Bagua might be interesting too, although I'm not sure what subduing my ego and uncovering my true heart would entail.  Damo sounds really good too.  I mean, overall for now, seems like I'm doing fine with my book and video.

 

I have to admit that the Bagua reading has me really curious.

 

There rarely are any free meals in gaining wisdom and spiritual maturity. The confronting and bringing into light of our unwelcome aspects is what nourishes and grows us the most.

 

You have already professed a type of prejudice against martial training, which is one particular thing holding you back regardless of the reason. Martial training often is a quick door to showing the truth about ourselves, in particular our core vulnerabilities and the lack or want of power.

 

It's good to remember that the oracle always gives a limited perspective with its answer, and there might be a lot of room for free will and further discovery if you choose to explore what else is included in the prospect you had inquired about.

3 hours ago, StillWater said:

Not so much martial, but that wouldn't be avoided if it is a good idea.

 

What should StillWater learn about internal martial arts for his progress (health and spirituality) in long term?

 

(777798) 43 Resoluteness: moving line 5 => 34 Great Power

Each martial art has its own philosophy, and you would need to find the resolve and dedication to adapt to its framework. Perhaps it could be taken as suggestion that your gentle Taijiquan is already serving you well enough?

 

 

3 hours ago, StillWater said:

1.  Qigong Wellness is owned and operated by Jeff Simonton

 

What should StillWater learn about his long-term progress (health and spirituality) if he studied under this teacher/school?

 

(689879) 53 Gradual Progress: ml 1,3,6 => 3 Difficulty at the Beginning

 

A mixed bag. There is something in the training that would feel difficult or off-putting at the beginning, but it would eventually turn good under assistance.

 

 

3 hours ago, StillWater said:

2.  Erin Tracy

What should StillWater learn about his long-term progress (health and spirituality) if he studied under this teacher/school?

(788767) 21 Discernment: ml 5 => 25 Innocence

 

Sometimes life or training offers uneasy choices. It's important to stay true to oneself and persist in what accords with the highest standards of training and ethics.

 

 

3 hours ago, StillWater said:

3.  Jason Quin

What should StillWater learn about his long-term progress (health and spirituality) if he studied under this teacher/school?

(879879) 57 Penetration: ml 3,6 => 29 Danger

 

You would struggle and find no success.

 

 

3 hours ago, StillWater said:

4. Nine Dragon Bagau

 

What should StillWater learn about his long-term progress (health and spirituality) if he studied under this teacher/school?

(888888) 2 The Receptive

 

Ego subdued and one's true heart uncovered.

 

3 hours ago, StillWater said:

5.  Lastly, Kathleen Cusick

What should StillWater learn about his long-term progress (health and spirituality) if he studied under this teacher/school?

(887967) 56 Transition: ml 4,5, => 53 Gradual Progress

 

Initially you might feel impatient or dissatisfied with the training, but enduring it would bring you gradual results.

 

 

3 hours ago, StillWater said:

the first standing meditation of Wuji from Warriors of Stillness Volume 1.  40 minutes, every single morning.

What should StillWater learn about his long-term progress (health and spirituality) if he studied under this teacher/school?

 

(788897) 42 Increase: ml 5 => 27 Nourishment

 

It's what you really want to do and the practice is good for you.

 

 

3 hours ago, StillWater said:

24 Yang Short Form dvd by Amin Wu

 

What should StillWater learn about his long-term progress (health and spirituality) if he studied under this teacher/school?

(799787) 14 Wealth: ml 2,3 => 21 Discernment

 

A truly excellent indication overall, but there seems to be a question in the air: How long can you continue learning and progressing from a simple DVD? (Note that there are online Taijiquan classes with masters such as Grandmaster William C.C. Chen and Sifu Terry Dunn.)

 

 

3 hours ago, StillWater said:

Lam Kam Chuen's book The Way of Energy

What should StillWater learn about his long-term progress (health and spirituality) if he studied under this teacher/school?

(798798) 58 Joy: ml 2,5 => 51 Shock

 

You would enjoy the book, but your self-confidence might not endure nor lead to as good results as you would like.

 

 

3 hours ago, StillWater said:

Damo Mitchell

What should StillWater learn about his long-term progress (health and spirituality) if he studied under this teacher/school?

(989777)13 Fellowship with Men: ml 1,3 => 12 Standstill

 

Everything is set to go, but you might find something problematic or unmotivating.

 

 

3 hours ago, StillWater said:

Zhongxian Wu

 

What should StillWater learn about his long-term progress (health and spirituality) if he studied under this teacher/school?

(967878) 63 Completion: ml 1,2 => 48 The Well

 

Your expectations could be challenged and this might lead you to introspection about why you train.

 

 

3 hours ago, StillWater said:

I'd like to choose a live instructor and follow that alone.

What should StillWater learn about his desire to follow a teacher who is accessible face-to-face?

 

(986777) 25 Innocence: ml 1,3 => 33 Retreat

 

There's nothing wrong with wanting close contact with a teacher, but if a great opportunity comes by for other ways of learning, then you shouldn't let yourself be bound by a limiting attitude.

 

 

3 hours ago, StillWater said:

My worry is that I read here that you shouldn't mix any systems.   Is any of this going to be a problem?

 

What should StillWater learn about his concerns about mixing systems?

 

(778877) 61 Inner Truth

 

Examine and study all information well before you commit to a teaching or teacher. Are you really feeling into this opportunity?

 

 

1 hour ago, StillWater said:

I do have a collection of the flying phoenix dvd's

 

What should StillWater learn about his long-term progress (health and spirituality) if he studied under this teacher/school?

 

(989797) 13 Fellowship with Men: ml 1,3,5 => 35 Progress

 

If you persist in the Flying Phoenix training, then you will realize your set goals. Don't expect immediate or easy gains though.

1 minute ago, StillWater said:

I do have a collection of the flying phoenix dvd's and have given them a cursory look.  The actual forms are intriguing but I couldn't figure out how to put a routine together, even with Terry's quick start guide.  Do you do the whole seated set and standing set at one time every day?  When do you transition from one to the next?  All the little niggly bits.  At that point I decided I needed a bit more experience.

 

@Earl Grey Is training to become a coach teaching the series, so he should be able to give some useful pointers.

 

I would suggest to start simple, try something, and just keep on doing what you enjoy. If you like it, then you will confidence to progress with more structure.

 

 

2 minutes ago, StillWater said:

I'm assuming by the peacefulness of your heart-mind you mean the inner smile and working on a loving feeling for everything during meditation?

 

Not exactly. It's more that you have a restful and relaxed quality in your mind, so that you stay grounded and rooted whether energetically, emotionally, or physically.

 

.

4 minutes ago, StillWater said:

I have read that during live instruction the energy of the teacher is an irreplaceable component, but whether I have a clue what that alludes toward is another issue altogether.

 

Teachers have an energetic presence (or field), but this comes from their still minds instead of any active measure. You will connect to teacher's presence even through video chat.

59 minutes ago, StillWater said:

I submit myself to the knowledge of those who have gone before me and humbly ask for any guidance that might be available.

 

I'm not much of an expert, but I'll page two senior Bums for you. @freeform @Taomeow They are good and experienced people who are known for giving all-around wise advice.

 

What I usually do when having a choice of practices is that I use I Ching to divine what are the most important consequences of the different training tracks. If you want, I can cast a series of divinations for your options and chief concerns that you brought up, plus give brief interpretations of the results. Please note that I'm not a professional diviner, so you should take my interpretations with prudent caution even more than with professionals.

 

 

59 minutes ago, StillWater said:

I have gathered that personal instruction is best.

 

Not necessarily. It is so if both the style and the teacher are of superior quality or the teaching requires supervision for correct learning.

 

Flying Phoenix is a very good Qigong style that can be learned through DVD, which is Perfect for self-paced learning, IMO.

 

Learning genuine Neigong with Damo Mitchell is a great opportunity even if he teaches online.

 

 

1 hour ago, StillWater said:

My worry is that I read here that you shouldn't mix any systems.   Is any of this going to be a problem?  I don't want to do something bad for me.

 

It's good to be aware of potential problems, but it's not likely you would face problems unless you had some type of specialist or esoteric practices. In general, practicing many styles in a daily routine would be another occasion I would consult the I Ching in advance just to be sure that there are no conflicts.

 

The most important concern as a beginner is that you should focus on mastering the peacefulness of your heart-mind first of all. It's the priority skill that determines the trajectory of your training. For this purpose it's often better to keep practice simple and remember that the formal practices are means towards this end.

 

Taijiquan is an example of something that can be practiced along with pretty much everything.

 

 

1 hour ago, StillWater said:

I'm wary of such things as zoom lessons because I don't see how an instructor can transfer energy through a computer screen.

 

Why are you expecting the instructor to transfer energy to you? To be honest, this sounds like a complete misconception.