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Actually, I don´t get too worked up over gay community definitions either. How many letters are there in the acronym that supposedly represents the community I belong to -- LGBQT, or is it more now? Don´t ask me what queer means or how it might differ from garden-variety gay. There are plenty of men who have sex with other men while claiming to be straight; more than a few women who´ve never had sex with another women who claim to be lesbian. Who can keep track of it anymore? I´m happy to let people call themselves whatever they want. As far as homophobic slurs go, to me it´s all about intent. The slur isn´t in the word -- it´s in the intention of the person using it. But this is far afield from the subject of weather magic (even if Lord Josh Allen is, as he claims, the Liberace of the occult world).I do hear your point.
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I also have a question about this, Josh. I wish to be sure though, you do literally mean to say that hundreds of people are hearing the voice of Zhuge Liang? I'd like to confirm that before I respond to anything else you've said.
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Honestly, I believe with the way he presents himself on YouTube, he is claiming to be quite advanced. He might not call himself a sage outright, but... The clothes really aren't the big problem, though I made fun of them when he first showed up in a reactionary manner. The problem is when somebody who has not really received teachings takes to a high platform to hold a megaphone, as it were, and preach home-baked understandings. When one adds to this the establishment of some sort of organization devoted to the glory of a disembodied voice... complicated, complicated. At any rate, although "Lord" Josh Allen is at the center of this conversation, I am not all that concerned with how he turns out. I am not under any illusions that I am going to sway him with my message board posts, especially since he disregarded the lists of common Daoist warnings about ghosts, demons, and playing with spells that I typed up. The posts I am writing are for those newbies who know next to nothing about Daoism, but feel a draw to it and may watch Josh Allen videos and conclude, "ah, so this is what Daoism is all about." I can only use the term human wreckage to describe what I have seen of some unfortunate people who have thrown in their lot with the wrong kind of "Daoist" teacher. Such outcomes are tragic; being better informed might help some people avoid them. I do accept the possibility that Josh Allen is really being guided by an actual Daoist immortal. Such things do happen, just like some people digging in their flowerbeds unexpectedly bang their spades against nuggets of gold. Tolerance is good. I admit that I was intolerant of Josh when I made fun of him. Since talking with Steve in this thread I have been careful and have shared with him lessons repeated to me by Daoists in three different lineages in three different countries. They might not suit him and they might seem like they're intended to take the wind out of his sails... But let me tell you, having a Daoist teacher involves having a lot of wind taken out of your sails! A responsible teacher tends to hear a lot of "wow, master, yesterday I was meditating and then ________________________ happened! Amazing, right?" Then the teacher gives a bland reply like "forget it," and possibly patiently explains why such a manifestation is of little or no meaning and should definitely not be latched upon. To a beginner, this can be very disappointing! We want to be special, we felt qi, we saw a spirit, we had a prescient dream--why does the Daoist wave this all off with utter disinterest? To the student who sticks with it, the wisdom in this approach gradually becomes more and more apparent. Also, regarding nomenclature, I say this with seriousness to suggest a different viewpoint, not to take a jab at you. You have spoken about the gay community many times in this forum. That is a community that has taken nomenclature quite seriously (and rightfully so, I would add). The gay community's experience with epithets and labels can be one reminder of how important a label or name can be, and why people might find it important to seek clarity in definitions. There's actually an awful lot "in a name," even if names are "just words." Those who practice magic surely also realize this--this aspect of language is probably one of the bases for why spells can even work at all (not that I know for certain, I do not practice any magic).
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Sports analogies usually go over my head, but I think I get you. Seems like a pretty accurate analogy to me.
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That IS the point I’m making! Even non-team or non-students who still root for USC are welcome to the same sports bar to hang out. They aren’t students or team members, but they are still welcome. Or is my analogy Bruined by the fact I’m from UCLA? 😜
- Today
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You said something back here that interested me: This leads me to ask, how do you recognize these people when you met them, how do they recognize you, and how do you confirm about the voice? They may be from many creeds and backgrounds, but it must be a very small percentage of the population, as even one percent of the world population would give as seventy-seven or so million people and then I think we would have all heard of this type of connection. Thank you in advance for your clarification on this matter, ZYD
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@Earl Grey @Walker Please understand. When I said to Walker "I suggest tolerance" I wasn´t trying to cast asperions on Walker´s character. Maybe it´s a subtle difference, but I didn´t mean to call Walker intolerent. Walker -- I respect your knowledge and opinions. I´m glad you are here and feel I can learn a lot from you. I know you take your Daoism seriously and I appreciate that seriousness. I´m serious about my own spiritual path too. I don´t call myself a Daoist however. The most I´d say about myself is that I am engaged in some Daoist practices. My musings about the use of the word "Daoism" are offered casually, conversationally. Mostly I guess I wanted to support Josh. Seems to me he´s been very candid and upfront about who he is and isn´t, and didn´t deserve the heckling he got here. Sure, he´s not a wandering hermit, not a sage. Then again, he isn´t claiming otherwise. I think he´s a Bum in process, much like myself. It´s possible that at some point that the cars and the clothes won´t mean what they mean to him today. He might look back on his videos and feel embarrassed that he ever presumed to call himself a Daoist. Or maybe not. I just hope that there´s a place here on the board for people at all levels of spiritual development. So yeah, I suggest tolerance. My conscious is clear in doing so. At the same time, I respect those who have put more time and effort into this path than I. Please don´t think otherwise.
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I don’t get a vibe of intolerance from @Walker, i get the vibe of a guy trying to talk to his neighbor who loves USC football and wears Trojan jerseys during the Rose Bowl and drinks out of USC mugs as a big time fan who knows the history and roots for the team, but he still hasn’t had his application processed because he hasn’t even applied to get into USC yet. Not a problem because he is still welcome to hang at tailgate parties and watch them demolish UCLA at the sports bar with a few beers, and fun to chat with; he just isn’t a team member, let alone a student enrolled at USC yet. Again, he’s welcome by me and I’m seeing Walker welcomes him but is just being informative, not intolerant.
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Sumer: the "black-headed" vs. the "red-faced"
Nungali replied to Taomeow's topic in General Discussion
U7 in Rostov Scythians I found it quite interesting that in terms of mtDNA, the Rostov Scythians studied by der Sarkissian resembled closely the Shugnans of Tajikistan, who speak an eastern Iranian language. The author finds links between the Scythians and the "Central Asian Corridor", in particular with respect to mtDNA haplogroup U7. This "Central Asian Corridor" sensu der Sarkissian (Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, India) seems to touch Frachetti's Inner Asian Mountain Corridor (shown below) in the region of the Pamirs. Interestingly, the Sughnans belong, anthropologically to the Pamir-Ferghana type, which was also called Central Asian interfluvial type, the rivers in question being the Oxus and Jaxartes (Amu Darya and Syr Darya). And, of course, between these two rivers was the heartland of the Bactria Margiana Archaeological Complex, which I have previously linked with the Indo-Iranians. http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/11/u7-in-rostov-scythians.html -
Yeah . I wrote that in relation to my often repeated comment on these pages ; as soon as you start charging money for it ( martial arts , 'magical teachings' , 'sitting in lotus' ) ..... its all downhill from there . Worse if you are trying to do it to 'make a living ' or have a book out on it . Its all about ' buying my book' , I'm better ... etc etc . Ho hum Our teacher had no 'HQ' , no sign , no related 'business' , we dont even have a name to call it . Yet well known and expensive 'experts' from all over the world would come to learn from him . A lot of the time he was 'too busy' for them . But others .... teach teach teach , and then take them out and immerse them in all sorts of things related to his native culture . . . . and make you help in his catering business . But , if you where " not here to roll Sushi ! " - bye bye . But yes, it would cost a lot to fly there .
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Say Something Nice About Someone Chain!
thelerner replied to Earl Grey's topic in General Discussion
@Taomeow is brilliant. I've always thought of her as being on the same planet, different world, because her knowledge, experiences and viewpoint are so different then the tic toc world. @Megamind, If I was in a fox hole Megamind would be a great person to have beside me. He's calm under fire, grounded and has years of dedicated meditation experience. Beyond the OP, there are so many people on this site I consider friends. Ones I'd love to visit, have a beer with, invite over. Wonderful people with great insights, knowledge and compassion. There are also people that I've insulted, been rude to and made fun of. To them, I apologize, mea culpa. I get hot headed and stupid, loosing perspective. Please take my annoying and/or Pollyanish writings with a grain of salt. -
Considering my many shortcomings and misdeeds, the possible misuse of Daoist nomenclature isn´t remotely a priority.
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Please contemplate this one for a few days. I wonder whether your conscience is trying to tell you something that has leaked into your own words. As for whether or not I stem any tide, that is not a goal of mine. I offer a differing voice, that seekers who have stumbled into this thread might hear what I was told, by those who patiently explained these things to me, regardless of what tides were swirling around them. The goal, then, is to allow people to make more informed decisions, on the basis of hearing opinions not easy to come across outside of Chinese communities, in English.
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Only if you showed it off to strangers on the internet
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@Walker I´m sympathetic to all the points you make. Obviously Lord Allen Josh isn´t a Daoist in the sense you mean. Obviously I´m not. But many people are going to use these terms loosely. Arguably, that´s a harmful thing, a confusing thing, maybe an uneducated and disrespectful thing. It´s also an undeniable reality. Even if you convince LJA to use the term Daoist in the more restrictive sense you prefer, even if you convince every member and guest of TDB likewise, you will not stem the cultural tide. I suggest tolerance.
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I will have a go at this one . What is wrong with cars, clothes, thrones, fur coats, diamond-encrusted jackets, zebra trousers, pimp hats, tailcoats, snakeskin boots, brocade blazers, velvet trousers, Hanfu robes, feather fans, imperial hats is that .... with all that going on, one is likely to forget what the point of it all is .
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I've switched all signatures off in my account settings. Maybe I'm an idiot?
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Trying to get back to the rules suggested by the OP. @CloudHands Witty and sharp, kind-hearted and thoughtful and a taiji aficionado @Rocky Lionmouth Perceptive and empathetic and knowledgeable yet never overbearing, never lording it over to others
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To be clear, I meant money to be spent on travel and learning a language. I've barely spent any money on Daoist teachings (martial arts and Chinese medicine were expensive to study, though, but I learned those from other people). In fact... Two of my teachers have given me money, quite a lot of it. I'm embarrassed to say that, but I add the comment to dispel any notions that one must have big money to have a teacher. Money is not necessary, because the currency of this tradition is sincerity.
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Many communities (I'm guessing Sedona being at the top of the list ), perhaps, but typically not Daoist ones. The analogy about Judaism isn't meant to be perfect, just to illustrate a point. I'll try to find better ones. Sure, if we can transcend the later heaven, duality-driven existence of mundane humans, it seems likely we will also transcend conventional boundaries. That is if, and when. Till that glorious day, identities do serve a purpose in this realm, which any encounter with the TSA or border agents is a reminder of. Good question. The answer is transmission of the teachings from one generation to the next. That is a huge, important point. So: Saying one is a Daoist, in the sense of the various Chinese words that become this English word, indicates that one has been accepted by an elder in the previous generation and taught by that elder. But why is it a "huge, important point" in this day and age when we have so many wonderful books, YouTube teachers, podcasts, and forums where we can study Daoism openly and for free without going through the trouble of an initiation, something that might just be the leftover dregs of Chinese civilization anyway, and therefore irrelevant or even antithetical to "the Way?" That would be another good question, and also one with an answer. The answer is: despite the current proliferation of "open" resources, quite amazingly, the inner teachings of Daoism do indeed still remain "inner," by which I mean well guarded secrets. Even Chinese language sources do not spill the beans, and far less does what you can find in English. It is still in this day imperative to have a real teacher to reveal the teachings which are designed to help a student find Dao. If this comment makes no sense, then I can only shrug and presume you've not likely glimpsed what remains kept behind closed doors. Perhaps someday. So yes, "Daoist" is an identity, sure--one that signifies where its holder stands with regards a body of teachings. While merely saying "Daoist" cannot tell you how experienced and accomplished a person is, it does tell you the person has walked through one or more of certain doors. Thus, this is not really an identity in the sense of "I feel like I've lived here long enough that the city is a part of me, now I'm a New Yorker" or "my parents had me baptized when I was an infant so I'm Christian" or "I really like Star Wars so I wear a cloak for fun and say I follow the Jedi code" or "I feel a certain way about my sexuality/gender/race/ethnicity/age/generation/etc, so this or that label fits me best." It's more like an identity in the sense of "I matriculated at Yale, therefore I'm a Yaley." You can't just feel like a Yaley if the school never let you in, and even that's not enough--you have to go. Luckily, finding a teacher in Daoism does not require $40,000 of tuition a year and great SAT scores (or the last name Bush). But it still takes hard work for most people. Sadly, many people do not understand this or cannot accept this for whatever reason. Therefore they miss out on things they could have learned if they found the door and then asked to enter it. Moreover, if they make a loud enough racket, they potentially confuse a great many people, like Castaneda, Tuesday Lobsang Tampa, Osho, and too many other people with the gift of gab to name (including many YouTube meditation "masters" currently plying their trade). This is why my analogy, if you read carefully, is about rabbis, not Jews. Rabbis don't merely have a certain religious identity, they are accepted into a long lineage of teachers and given tasks and responsibilities. This confusion really does not exist in China and Taiwan and one does not hear this conversation being chewed over time and time again. Perhaps confusion is more common here because westerners are not so used to initiatory rites. Another way to think about this, then, is by comparing it to Freemasonry. Nobody says "I feel like I am a Freemason, therefore I am" or "the ghost of Thomas Jefferson told me I am a Freemason, so I am." Most of us know as little of Freemasonry as we do of Daoism, but the need to be initiated in order to qualify as a Mason is well understood by almost everybody in the west. Similarly, the need to be initiated by a master in order to become a Daoist is common knowledge in China, Taiwan, Malaysia, Indonesia, and other Chinese communities.
- Yesterday
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Tai Chi practitioners should know about mitochondria.
Limahong replied to ReturnDragon's topic in General Discussion
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Aint that the truth.
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Say Something Nice About Someone Chain!
ReturnDragon replied to Earl Grey's topic in General Discussion
@ChiDragon You are lucky if you don't get any. -
Tai Chi practitioners should know about mitochondria.
Limahong replied to ReturnDragon's topic in General Discussion
Ya ~ for some... the last one... RIP. -
Say Something Nice About Someone Chain!
Seatle185 replied to Earl Grey's topic in General Discussion
@Earl Grey thank you for making this topic, you are always looking to help this community come together and have always shown willingness to help those that seek it. @Nintendao - thanks, well i have always loved your name and wish i had thought of a name that cool! Haha i also sense a kindness and humbleness when i see your posts. Even though i do remain pretty silent around here, i have been able to form intimate personal relationships with many of you, and the people i have been able to meet have been very kind, open and helpful to me along the way. ( & that definately includes people that may appear harsh or overly critical in their public posts 😂) i do appreciate all who take the time to post their experiences with these practices and what they have learned in the process. Im sure i could say something nice to just about everyone here, but for now i guess i will call out @freeform. I continue to find your open sharing of your experiences inspiring. Hope to continue listening to them!
