Sexual Abuse and Misconduct in Buddhism

[konchog uma]

Argue with Twinner all you want to, I honestly don't care. I have no idea of whether the problem of child abuse that exists within Catholicism is WORSE than that in Tibet Buddhism! But I don't care, the fact that EXISTS is the problem no? I think it would be a problem in ANY INSTITUTION.

 

i am not implying or saying that sex crimes against children isn't a problem. in fact, i said, "im sure it happens" and acknowledge that its horrible and tragic.

 

i am not really interested in whether or not the problem is worse in one religion or another either. catholicism, tibetan buddhism, voodoo, scientology, ...not my point at all.

 

i am not defending my religion as twinner suggest and putting my head in the sand saying "its all an illusion it doesnt matter". thats a misunderstanding of buddhism that i'm not going to even get into, and a misunderstanding of my own point of view that im just going to let slide because i don't feel like engaging twinner on each and every one of his logical fallacies and misinterpretations of what i actually said.

 

i am asking, basically, twinner, can you prove that you are not lying to us, misrepresenting the facts in an attempt to sensationalize this issue? i feel that the approach to the issue is somehow disingenuous, and i feel like pointing out that if twinner actually cared, he wouldnt take an "im not going to actually DO anything about it guys!" stance, he would be approaching it from a solution-oriented angle.

 

so in my view, buddhist children were molested, are molested, and now instead of taking a stand or even the time to sign a petition to combat this happening, twinner just wants to use their suffering as a soapbox to grandstand on, saying "religion is bad, look at this!" without wanting to do anything but drum up support for his own viewpoint in order to reinforce it. basic ego. if people are really suffering, i would appreciate 1. a genuine approach to solving the problem or moving toward a solution 2. not being lied to about the facts surrounding the suffering.

 

thats all.

 

i find the problem worth looking into, although im not finding as much as twinner says i will find. but i find the approach to the problem mildly offensive, hence my response to the post.

[Creation]

Maybe its the institutions which are the problem.

I think that people exert a force on institutions and institutions exert a force on people. And institutions (e.g. political and economic institutions) exert forces on each other. So I don't like pointing to one type of institution and saying "Here is the problem, just get rid of this institution and everything will be better" because that institution is part of a web of causality. I guess you could I have an ecological view of the situation.

 

That said, an institution can have a problem and needs to change! Certainly it can. I think lessening the emphasis on celibacy in religions that still have that is a step in the right direction. But in doing so, I think it is important to find new expression for the same underlying principles of proper use of sexuality. When people say things like "Oh, those monks just need to get laid" I always roll my eyes. I think it is somewhat unfortunate that many times the people who change things are just dissatisfied with the situation and thus can't see both sides. Because then the pendulum just swings in the opposite direction. And then a faction arises to counter it, emphasizing sexual purity just like in the old days, etc. etc.

 

Unless of course you believe that there is something rotten in all religion. As a Christopher Hitchens fan (but still a spiritual person!) I can see that validity of this last view.

I am presently unsympathetic to this viewpoint, or rather I would say the extent to which it is true is merely a reflection of what is rotten in people. Maybe it is a definitional disagreement? I think religion arises out of a combination of the spiritual and social impulses in humans. Doing things together and doing spiritual things are both natural things for humans, so religion is quite a natural human activity. The form it takes will depend on the groups' level of spiritual development (some religions are only nominally spiritual ) and the cultural template on which the expressions are based. And then, in turn, religion becomes a vehicle for transplanting culture, as history shows.

 

I suppose Mr. Hitchens would deny that "spiritual things" is a valid category, but I assume you do not.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Creation

[konchog uma]

snowmonki, thank you for sharing the video, i appreciate it

 

i was never saying there is no evidence that sex crimes against children happen in buddhism

 

if anyone wanted to take a genuine approach and talk about how traditionalism and repression of desire in religious orders leads to neurosis, i would agree with them actually. its a problem.

 

thats just not the turn this conversation took i guess

Edited May 15, 2012 by anamatva

[Apech]

 

 

 

I am presently unsympathetic to this viewpoint, or rather I would say the extent to which it is true is merely a reflection of what is rotten in people. Maybe it is a definitional disagreement? My definition of religion is a group of people participate in spiritual activities together. Doing things together and doing spiritual things are both natural things for humans, so religion is quite a natural human activity. The form it takes will depend on the groups' level of spiritual development (some religions are only nominally spiritual ) and the cultural template on which the expressions are based. And then, in turn, religion becomes a vehicle for transplanting culture, as history shows.

 

I suppose Mr. Hitchens would deny that "spiritual activities" is a valid category, but I assume you do not.

 

 

 

I agree that religion is natural. Even Neanderthal we are given to believe left grave goods which indicates a belief in some kind of afterlife. BUT I feel that what most churches indulge in is not actually 'participating in spiritual activities together'. They are just doing something around wish-fulfilment and social control. For the very reason that they don't critically examine themselves and what they do ... they end up in a hell of a mess. This includes the terrible hypocrisy of preaching 'goodness' and practicing abuse.

 

You can see in the Hitchens (et al) youtube video debates around religion/atheism that the Christians are desperate to avoid any kind fo analysis beyond ... just believe what the bible says. You can imagine how hard it is for the church leaders (Pope, DL and everyone else) to admit to there being something rotten in the midst of their pretendy perfection. At least the scientists question things.

 

Basically I would say that what the churches, mosques and synagogues practice is actually not religion, if you choose to define religion in any sensible kind of a way. I would even go so far as to say they are actively stopping people expressing their genuine spontaneous personal experiences.

[Creation]

Basically I would say that what the churches, mosques and synagogues practice is actually not religion, if you choose to define religion in any sensible kind of a way. I would even go so far as to say they are actively stopping people expressing their genuine spontaneous personal experiences.

I would agree to this. Thought nowadays "religion" for many conjures up images of things which are quite far genuine expression of spirituality.

 

I often point out the good in religion here, that religions do contain germs of truth and are part of our heritage. This is because I believe strongly that it is impossible to escape the past, and trying to cut ourselves from things in our past we don't like will not solve our problems. I find the modern need to deconstruct everything about ourselves to be neurotic, and it's antitheses the "True Believer", as you mention, is not any better.

 

So I am trying to find the place of balance, the perspective that allows resolution and healing to take place.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Creation

[Aaron]

hahahahah!!! wow! how presumptuous. what non-answers! amazing

 

my head isnt in the sand, i was actually, it seems, doing more than you to see what could be done about the situation... you seemingly just want to complain, and then when people arent like "yeah ill complain too@!" you complain about them!! hahahah worthless waste of time

 

and it is a cop out. its actually nothing but a cop out. if youre going to say something, and then not back it up but tell people do a search on google, thats a cop out. and when people come back to you and say "i did a search and i didnt find it" and you say "well i know how this works so there" implying that i dont know how this works, thats a cop out. so thanks for nothing. i dont believe you, and i think youre falsifying your data to sensationalize the issue in accord with your agenda against religions.

 

so thats your karma to deal with, and your lesson to learn, im done talking to you about it. i will continue to look into the issue on my own to see what can be done about it.

 

The thing is none of the data is falsified. Search google, you'll find there's overwhelming data regarding this topic. I also wasn't complaining about people not complaining, but being complacent and ignoring it, even though it's evident they understood it was going on. This is a VERY BIG difference. I think the problem stems from this idea that Buddhism is perfect, but Apech hit it on the head, there's no institution or idea that's perfect, especially when they advocate celibacy.

 

As for documented proof--- here's the short list---

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/23/buddhist-sex-abuse-scanda_n_691337.html (A must read for American Buddhists)

http://dbsjeyaraj.com/dbsj/archives/6081

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-07-24/news/ct-met-monk-sex-cases-20110724_1_thai-monks-buddhist-monks-paul-numrich

http://www.colombotelegraph.com/index.php/london-buddhist-monk-child-abuse-case-first-victims-was-threatened-second-victim-was-given-sweets/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sinhala/news/story/2011/08/110820_mihintale_monk.shtml

http://www.adn.com/2009/04/09/754645/buddhist-monk-charged-with-sexual.html

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2011/12/the-sex-lives-of-monks-confessions-of-kalu-rinpoche/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/abuse-alleged-at-monastery-for-tibet-exiles-698788.html

 

Is this enough or do you require me to provide names and addresses of witnesses... jeesh.

 

Aaron

[Apech]

Joining a religion or religious group does not make you a better person or less likely to commit unacceptable acts. After all, all you have done is joined something. This is the same for becoming a monk. It doesn't make you any better than anyone else. Its a charade based on a kind of appearance of spirituality and not actual spirituality. In fact I'm not even sure if being spiritual in any sense makes you better than anyone else. It probably makes you different. It probably means you have thoughts and feelings that other people do not have access to. But it doesn't make you more likely to behave better does it? Unless you have developed a higher sensitivity to the feelings of others perhaps ... which would make you less likely to be able to harm them.

 

Religion in the sense of organisations, gurus, teachers (who go beyond teaching how to do something for yourself) is all pure nonsense.

 

Organised religion is afraid of the gifted individuals who think for themselves. In fact most of the founders of organised religions were such persons themselves and have been captured by the church.

 

In a sense we should welcome the lifting the lid on all this stuff. Its a good reminder not to get drawn in.

 

Think for yourself. Live in doubt and uncertainty if necessary. Endure you own hardship. Suffer your own pain. Learn your own lessons. Do not give this responsibility to someone else. Any good teacher worth his/her salt will tell you this and not let you do otherwise. This is the only protection against any kind of abuse.

 

 

[Aetherous]

Something to consider is that the role of a religion or a religious person is not to put others on a guilt trip. Even in Christianity, which everyone assumes is totally condemning of everything, that's the wrong way! Spirituality is about forgiveness, mercy, providing protection and well being for all people unconditionally. Becoming a totally good person.

 

As Nietzsche said, "When fighting monsters, be sure not to become a monster yourself."

 

Of course, it doesn't protect the victims of sexual abuse when you allow sexual abusers to continue unabated.

[Brian]

Considering there is a new scandal in the Catholic church almost every week it is a pretty extraordinary claim that what goes on in Buddhism is worse , you need evidence or at least provide links or it just looks like politically motivated malicious slander

 

Heck, there's more abuse per capita within US public schools than in the church. By a long shot, and well-documented. The indoctrination conducted in the public schools is endorsed by the establishment, however, while the church's indoctrination no longer is...

 

Edited May 15, 2012 by A Seeker

[steve]

Think for yourself. Live in doubt and uncertainty if necessary. Endure you own hardship. Suffer your own pain. Learn your own lessons. Do not give this responsibility to someone else. Any good teacher worth his/her salt will tell you this and not let you do otherwise. This is the only protection against any kind of abuse.

Well said.

[mat black]

Be careful, because there is a lot of Chinese propaganda out there, trying to demonize Tibet to justify the Chinese occupation.

 

On the other hand, Tibet was essentially a Medieval society pre-occupation. The social structures were eerily similar to Medieval Europe, right up into the 20th century.

 

Now if anyone gets upset by me saying that, I wonder, is that because of the modern idea that that the Medieval period in Europe was a backwards Dark Age and the Catholic Church the most corrupt and wicked institution of all time? Westerners have such a tendency to crap on their own heritage, and only remember the bad stuff. And as an antitheses to this, Westerners interested in Buddhism have a tendency to only see the good in Buddhism.

 

In this very thread, look at everyone trying to say, "Oh but it's not as bad as Catholicism." Like that is anything but propagating the culture meme that the Catholic Church is awful. Gelugpas persecuted "heretics", there was pederasty in monestaries, priests and monks were wealthy while peasants were poor, all just like in Medieval Catholicism.

 

But like HandsInTime said, that's just people!

 

The force of culture is very strong. Spiritual teachings, whether those of Christ or Buddha or anyone else, necessarily mix with politics, economics, and all sorts of human frailties embedded both within individual psyches and cultures. There are necessarily certain ills that are looked over until it comes to a head and a major revolution or reformation happens. That pattern is repeated throughout history. That's just how it works.

 

And I don't blame it on "Organized Religions" as a category either because religion, to me, is a basic organizing principle in human culture that just is, like politics and economics.

 

So do excuse the Dalai Lama if his agenda is not what you think it should be. And don't be to quick to try to go on a crusade to change something that is not even part of your culture. That's my advice anyway, not that anyone asked for it.

such a sensible and well balanced post.

[Aaron]

Some points to address...

 

First, regardless of culture the exploitation of children is unacceptable.

 

Second, people should be aware of what's happening and who is helping to cover it up.

 

Third, institutions, religious or otherwise, cover these things up to save their own asses. Look at the Boy Scouts as a good example.

 

Fourth, we as individuals can't change anything, but as a unified force, being aware of what's happening, we can make a difference. The head of the Theravada Buddhists in Sri Lanka was recently indited after several victims came forth to share what happened to them.

 

What is most despicable, isn't that this is occurring within organized religion, deviants seek organizations because it grants them access to victims, what is despicable is the fact that it's covered up and in my opinion, regardless of who it is, if it is covered up, then something needs to be done. Anyone who thinks because it's a different culture that we should allow children to be molested really needs to take a look at their inner compass and see what it has to say. No child asks to be taken advantage of, and if a culture believes they have that right, then they are wrong. Children don't ask to be born into these societies, just like they don't ask to be abused. It is our responsibility as adults to care for those children who can't care for themselves, to protect them, especially if the people caring for them are abusing them.

 

My agenda with this thread is to spread awareness and not let this topic go away until someone wakes up and says, "this is enough." When that happens, then I will be a very content man, but until then I have a bone to pick with those who would use "God", "Buddha", "duty", or any other ideal or entity to manipulate children and the masses into silence.

 

With that said, I don't necessarily believe the Dalai Lama is a bad man, just as I don't think the Pope is a bad man, but sometimes people have a way of believing that the benefit of the organization outweighs the benefit of the individuals, and when that happens what do we do? Do we say, "this is enough" or do we cower under pressure and remain silent?

 

Aaron

Edited May 16, 2012 by Twinner

[Apech]

@twinner

 

I think I agree that the cover up tendency is a big problem. Institutions (of all types) seem to want to protect themselves over and above protecting their members (the abused ones). Presumably this is because those in authority over such institutions think they have so much to lose. This leads to poor decision making based on self interest. It seems to happen in every case ... and so you can conclude that its a problem to do with how human beings organise themselves.

[C T]

Some points to address...

 

First, regardless of culture the exploitation of children is unacceptable.

 

Second, people should be aware of what's happening and who is helping to cover it up.

 

Third, institutions, religious or otherwise, cover these things up to save their own asses. Look at the Boy Scouts as a good example.

 

Fourth, we as individuals can't change anything, but as a unified force, being aware of what's happening, we can make a difference. The head of the Theravada Buddhists in Sri Lanka was recently indited after several victims came forth to share what happened to them.

 

What is most despicable, isn't that this is occurring within organized religion, deviants seek organizations because it grants them access to victims, what is despicable is the fact that it's covered up and in my opinion, regardless of who it is, if it is covered up, then something needs to be done. Anyone who thinks because it's a different culture that we should allow children to be molested really needs to take a look at their inner compass and see what it has to say. No child asks to be taken advantage of, and if a culture believes they have that right, then they are wrong. Children don't ask to be born into these societies, just like they don't ask to be abused. It is our responsibility as adults to care for those children who can't care for themselves, to protect them, especially if the people caring for them are abusing them.

 

My agenda with this thread is to spread awareness and not let this topic go away until someone wakes up and says, "this is enough." When that happens, then I will be a very content man, but until then I have a bone to pick with those who would use "God", "Buddha", "duty", or any other ideal or entity to manipulate children and the masses into silence.

 

With that said, I don't necessarily believe the Dalai Lama is a bad man, just as I don't think the Pope is a bad man, but sometimes people have a way of believing that the benefit of the organization outweighs the benefit of the individuals, and when that happens what do we do? Do we say, "this is enough" or do we cower under pressure and remain silent?

 

Aaron

There are some good points brought up here, Aaron.

 

Failed to find a link with news about the indictment of the abbot in Sri Lanka -- could you please point in the right direction? I did hear of a case in England recently of a senior Sri Lankan monk being accused of sexual misconduct, but could not find any information regarding the Sri Lankan incident which you have highlighted.

 

I am personally interested to know the facts because i have Sri Lankan roots.

 

Thanks.

[Chang]

There are some good points brought up here, Aaron.

 

Failed to find a link with news about the indictment of the abbot in Sri Lanka -- could you please point in the right direction? I did hear of a case in England recently of a senior Sri Lankan monk being accused of sexual misconduct, but could not find any information regarding the Sri Lankan incident which you have highlighted.

 

I am personally interested to know the facts because i have Sri Lankan roots.

 

Thanks.

 

I believe that this refers to the case in question:-

 

Assault on Girls Aged 10

 

I suspect that the cases are one and the same.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Chang

[Aaron]

I believe that this refers to the case in question:-

 

Assault on Girls Aged 10

 

I suspect that the cases are one and the same.

 

Yeah this is it... I misquoted, he was the head of the Sri Lankan Theravada Buddhists in England. Sorry. There was something written about the proliferation of abuse in Buddhist schools in Sri Lanka, but I couldn't find the link again. In my previous post about last year, I had it linked. I'm not sure what's happening about that.

 

Aaron

[C T]

Yeah this is it... I misquoted, he was the head of the Sri Lankan Theravada Buddhists in England. Sorry. There was something written about the proliferation of abuse in Buddhist schools in Sri Lanka, but I couldn't find the link again. In my previous post about last year, I had it linked. I'm not sure what's happening about that.

 

Aaron

Please dont make it a habit of misquoting such serious matters, Aaron. There is karma involved, however it manifests. Imagine the negative vibes already directed at the chief abbot in Sri Lanka. Poor man.

[Aaron]

Please dont make it a habit of misquoting such serious matters, Aaron. There is karma involved, however it manifests. Imagine the negative vibes already directed at the chief abbot in Sri Lanka. Poor man.

 

Oh I wont. Of course I will be quoting a lot more about the Dalai Lama in the future, not only in regards to his treatment of the abuse of novices, but also his attitudes towards transgenderism, homosexuality, masturbation, and sex in general. I mean that guy is really out there when it comes to sexuality. I never knew the Tibetan Buddhists were that repressed. Of course being that repressed does help to keep the deviant goings on within the organization secret. Anyways, my apologies again, I'm sure the Chief Abbot is addressing the issues of abuse in schools and orphanages in Sri Lanka, rather than denying that it's occurring and I'm positive he's taking steps to stop this kind of abuse in the future, after all that would seem to be the Buddhist thing to do, not like the apparent denial of abuse charges against 114 Sri Lankan military personal in Haiti by the Sri Lanka President (read more here http://www.tamilguar...?articleid=1652). It seems that child sexual exploitation is endemic to much of Sri Lanka these days, not only in sex tourism, but also within the culture itself, so perhaps that's why I jumped the gun in that regard. Oh and you can go to http://www.colombohe...n-boys-as-monks to read more about why activists are opposing boys being ordained as monks (apparently, as I stated abuse in temples is rampant, but the authorities seem to be denying that it's occurring).

 

If this seems sarcastic, it's because you're taking one misquote and attempting to discredit my point. It's this kind of crap that helps to cover things up, but I will promise you, I wont let it stop me. The amount of articles regarding this topic are nearly never ending, so from now on I'll just point out the sources and let you guys make the decisions, is abuse continuing unabated? And if so why?

 

Aaron

 

edit- Also it's not a personal attack on you C T, I like you and respect you, rather I was a bit upset that people are trivializing this and trying to diminish it by using culture as a defense. I know that the average Sri Lankan does not condone any of these things, but at the same time in a country where the majority barely scrape by temples have been a last resort to send children that can't be fed or cared for. If this wasn't available many children would've died of starvation, so their is a need for temples, but at the same time the institution that takes in those children need to take responsibility for their actions.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Twinner

[Aaron]

I wanted to clarify to people that I didn't start this thread in an attempt to diminish or disparage Buddhism. I hold a great deal of respect for Buddhism and value it's contribution to society, rather I was making a point about the institutions that have arisen in its midst. Much as Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, and many other religions, it has held a dark secret that many wish to ignore or keep hidden, but at some point we need to shed light on it, for it is only when that light is shed that this dark specter will cease to have a hold on it.

 

The Dalai Lama is no more evil than the Pope or any other religious leader of our day, in fact he's seems to be very good man on the whole, but like many people his age, his views on certain topics have not evolved with the times and his esteem for the institution of Tibetan Buddhism seems to be a major priority in his leadership, as it should be. However with leadership comes a responsibility to each and every one of his followers, especially the children within the Tibetan temples. If he was a wise man he would step forward before this secret hits the mainstream media and take steps to end it, otherwise it will be dark stain on Buddhism, much as it was for Catholicism.

 

Buddhism isn't the only religion with this problem, it happens in Taoist temples, Hindu temples, and Islamic schools, however of these religions I was hoping for a more compassionate response from the Buddhists. Sadly that wasn't really seen in this thread, rather there seems to be a desire to deny what's happening, to close our eyes and hope it goes away. That wont happen and if we are representative of the global sangha, then I don't see this problem coming to an end any time soon.

 

I will let this thread die now, if that's what is meant to be. I've said my peace and I think shared enough evidence to prove I'm not just making this up.

 

Aaron

Edited May 17, 2012 by Twinner

[Apech]

Just want to say that I understood from the beginning why you started this thread and why you thought it important to do so. I didn't see it as an attack on Tibetan Buddhism ... it was almost as if you were saying - look even in Tibetan Buddhism even the DL makes the mistake of under playing this problem.

 

When I was a practicing TBist a few years ago I noticed that 'sexual misconduct' was the area which was fudged over the most. In terms of lying, stealing, killing ... there was no issue really ... intoxication was fairly loosely enforced because most people drank ... what was said was don't get blind drunk cos that damages your consciousness ... but sexual misconduct ... was difficult.

 

We were instructed on the basis of standard texts like Gampopa's Jewel Ornament etc... which contain list of prohibitions such as not sleeping with a prostitute paid for by someone else (!) ... + the usual list against homosexuality and so on ... but it was all kind of skated over with the general injunction to 'not do sexual harm' ... which the texts did not explicitly say. It seemed to me, rather with Leviticus that the whole thing needed revising up to common morality in the 21 century ... but there was a reluctance to tamper with what have come to be regarded as 'perfect' teachings. In Buddhism its all under the heading of skillful means anyway ... harmlessness being the watchword ... and within the view that the reason bad acts are bad is because they generate harmful karmic conditions for oneself and others. I think this is a useful way to think because it avoids the need to think about moral absolutes ... which in theistic systems are God given ... or dictated on Mt. Sinai (which in my view far from making them absolute makes them arbitrary).

 

The DL is celibate and has not had sexual relations with anyone ... he has said this in interviews and I have no reason to doubt ... he is therefore probably the worst person to decide on what the rules around sexual behaviour should be. He may not be able to fully relate to the harm done. he is probably allowing himself to be guided by what these medieval texts say. Which in the subject area is not really enough.

[Jetsun]

Until I see some sort of proof the Dalai Lama has been out of line anywhere I will continue to believe Twinner is actually trolling on this particular point which does his overall aim more harm than good. All we have so far is one obscure quote from a book which from what I can see may not even suggest the things Twinner thinks they do.

 

If you look at the history of Tibetan monasticism at one point in time sexual misconduct was rampant in the name of tantra until Jey Tsongchapa reformed the monasteries and implemented a much stricter sexual code, which is the same lineage followed by the Dalai lamas to this day. Only a few weeks ago there was a scandal in an American retreat centre where someone died and it turned out that the head Lama had been derobed as a monk and ejected from his order by the Dalai Lama for teaching Tantra with a consential female partner, so I see no evidence any sort of misconduct is ignored or brushed under the carpet like what happened in the Catholic Church. Also most of his monasteries are now under Chinese control and supervision, plus he is only one of many senior Lamas in Buddhism he isn't in charge of every lineage or order, so to say he is responsible for every slight misconduct in any monastery which has some sort of link to Tibet is to deny the reality of the situation.

 

This is a serious subject so there needs to be more interest in the truth rather than sensationalism and people's own personal crusades or it just does more harm than good, I have no particular personal interest in defending Buddhist monasticism but I like to defend the Dalai Lama from slander as I believe he is a genuine Bodhisattva, but I won't do it blindly with complete devotion I am open to being proved incorrect about him, but so far that sort of evidence hasn't been shown in this thread so it does the cause of truth no good to talk like it has.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Jetsun

[Chang]

Buddhist monks are no better or worse than anyone else as regards sexual temptation.

 

The fact is that men (no matter what religion or race) are weak when faced with sexual opportunity; it would not be an exaggeration to say their brain relocates to between their legs. I do not doubt that many feel extreme shame and remorse over their actions but are yet unable to prevent themselves from repeating them.

 

As regards the Dalai Lama and Tibetan Buddhism we may well see action taken now that the matter is the subject of open discussion; for this alone we should thank Twinner and others who help to bring these matters to public consciousness.

 

I have doubts however as regards pointing the finger of blame too much at heads of organisations whom we see as failing to act. We do not stand in their shoes and if we did I wonder if we could act differently or do better.

 

There is also the added problem that in Tibet itself the unsavoury nature of the allegations could well provide the Chinese authorities with another stick with which to beat Tibetan monasticism.

[C T]

Oh I wont. Of course I will be quoting a lot more about the Dalai Lama in the future, not only in regards to his treatment of the abuse of novices, but also his attitudes towards transgenderism, homosexuality, masturbation, and sex in general. I mean that guy is really out there when it comes to sexuality. I never knew the Tibetan Buddhists were that repressed. Of course being that repressed does help to keep the deviant goings on within the organization secret. Anyways, my apologies again, I'm sure the Chief Abbot is addressing the issues of abuse in schools and orphanages in Sri Lanka, rather than denying that it's occurring and I'm positive he's taking steps to stop this kind of abuse in the future, after all that would seem to be the Buddhist thing to do, not like the apparent denial of abuse charges against 114 Sri Lankan military personal in Haiti by the Sri Lanka President (read more here http://www.tamilguar...?articleid=1652). It seems that child sexual exploitation is endemic to much of Sri Lanka these days, not only in sex tourism, but also within the culture itself, so perhaps that's why I jumped the gun in that regard. Oh and you can go to http://www.colombohe...n-boys-as-monks to read more about why activists are opposing boys being ordained as monks (apparently, as I stated abuse in temples is rampant, but the authorities seem to be denying that it's occurring).

 

If this seems sarcastic, it's because you're taking one misquote and attempting to discredit my point. It's this kind of crap that helps to cover things up, but I will promise you, I wont let it stop me. The amount of articles regarding this topic are nearly never ending, so from now on I'll just point out the sources and let you guys make the decisions, is abuse continuing unabated? And if so why?

 

Aaron

 

edit- Also it's not a personal attack on you C T, I like you and respect you, rather I was a bit upset that people are trivializing this and trying to diminish it by using culture as a defense. I know that the average Sri Lankan does not condone any of these things, but at the same time in a country where the majority barely scrape by temples have been a last resort to send children that can't be fed or cared for. If this wasn't available many children would've died of starvation, so their is a need for temples, but at the same time the institution that takes in those children need to take responsibility for their actions.

I dont think anyone is trivializing anything here, Aaron. Having acknowledged that some of the points you have brought forth are indeed valid, and agree that reports of abuse are not unfounded and should not be dismissed lightly, all that was further implied was that these matters are serious enough to request for more accurate information when citing those you believe are to be held accountable. This then allows for proper follow-up for those who want to verify the accusations in greater depth.

 

There is no need to get defensive and sarcastic. Such a stance dampens enthusiasm. After all, no one is 'attacking' you for speaking up. Any voice against abuse of any kind is worthy of merit.

[C T]

Buddhist monks are no better or worse than anyone else as regards sexual temptation.

 

The fact is that men (no matter what religion or race) are weak when faced with sexual opportunity; it would not be an exaggeration to say their brain relocates to between their legs. I do not doubt that many feel extreme shame and remorse over their actions but are yet unable to prevent themselves from repeating them.

 

As regards the Dalai Lama and Tibetan Buddhism we may well see action taken now that the matter is the subject of open discussion; for this alone we should thank Twinner and others who help to bring these matters to public consciousness.

 

I have doubts however as regards pointing the finger of blame too much at heads of organisations whom we see as failing to act. We do not stand in their shoes and if we did I wonder if we could act differently or do better.

 

There is also the added problem that in Tibet itself the unsavoury nature of the allegations could well provide the Chinese authorities with another stick with which to beat Tibetan monasticism.

Hence this is much more than an institutional dysfunction?

[寒月 Hanyue]

I think the last think KR needs is for people to try to make him a poster child for something.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. Yet he put the video out himself, so people would know it wasn't just rumour. And I certainly commend him for that.

 

Did you come across his break dancing in your research?

 

yes I did. I honestly don't know much about him. It appears he is encouraged to engage with and promote Buddhism to a 'younger' audience, could be wrong.

 

i am not implying or saying that sex crimes against children isn't a problem. in fact, i said, "im sure it happens" and acknowledge that its horrible and tragic.

 

i am not really interested in whether or not the problem is worse in one religion or another either. catholicism, tibetan buddhism, voodoo, scientology, ...not my point at all.

 

I know you're not. My comment was not meant to imply the converse.

 

snowmonki, thank you for sharing the video, i appreciate it

 

i was never saying there is no evidence that sex crimes against children happen in buddhism

 

if anyone wanted to take a genuine approach and talk about how traditionalism and repression of desire in religious orders leads to neurosis, i would agree with them actually. its a problem.

 

thats just not the turn this conversation took i guess

 

I only did so, because I happened to know it existed and it seemed relevant.

 

I have known several people who suffered sexual abuse as minors, whether at the hands of adults within the wider family/social circle or through institutions meant to be there for their benefit. It is not only religion whether this occurs, though it seems people do get to 'hide' from repercussions more within religious institutions. Whether this is true or not who knows.

 

Best,

 

P.S Apologies if this posts seems at odds with where this thread has gone. I am replying to posts from pages back and have not read the more recent half of the thread.