Things a Taoist do not eat

[Mal]

If you get attuned by a lineage, you will gain this power, if not you will not have ANY of this power.

 

Oh so it's just a lineage tradition. Happy I can keep eating meat

[dao zhen]

Definitely Not true. & NO YOU DO NOT LOOSE ENERGY FROM EATING HEALTHY BEEF.....

 

Dear Vajrasattva.

 

I hope you are very fine today.

 

I enjoyed your Silat videos, and I studied Silat and Kali a long time ago with Guro Inasanto, and a few others; it is a beautiful art.

 

I would like to share some experience, and perhaps it can give you another view on this subject.

 

Perhaps this is common knowledge for you, and if so, please forgive my post here.

 

I think this is an issue that can really only be understood from experience.

 

Perhaps for me, my first real entry into the internal was with my Shing Yi instructor who I spent 4 years with.

 

When I studied under him, he advised me to eat meat, and it really helped with the system, and we worked on many different aspects of internal cultivation, leading to many ability and experience - external qi ability, drawing qi from nature, circulating this external qi in the body, building and strengthing of the wei qi or protective qi, etc.

 

After this training and experience - THIS WAS INTERNAL - I had real experiences, and some real ability and skill.....

 

Or so I thought.....

 

Later on in life, I met my Internal Alchemy teacher....

 

Part of his training was to abstain from all meat, and eat a very simple diet -mostly vegetables - and during intensive trainings, to eat very little food - also no spice was allowed - and we drank only hot boiled water.

 

During the first intensive training, experiences arose, and events took place that were far / far / far outside of anything I had experienced, read about, or could have imagined.....

 

It was taught during the theory lessons, that the reason for the diet is to creat a condition for the Yang Qi to enter.

 

We must do the work to create an environment that will provide a proper "home" for this Qi to arise.

 

Meat creates a condiiton that will not alow this Qi to arrive.

 

Of course there are many kinds of Qi, and many qualities of Qi that are within our human form we can cultivate also.

 

This cultivation of Yang Qi or the Qi that embodies the emptiness that surrounds Heaven and Earth are perhaps something unique to this Alchemy Tradition.

 

From my experience in other systems of Qigong and Internal Martial Arts, they do not teach this cultivation of Yang Qi.

 

I am not sure though, as I do not know everything, and have just learned a little.

 

Just wanted to give a different view, that in some paths, eating meat can enhance the training, while in others eating meat can be a hinderance to the training.

 

There is another view on eating meat that one will take on negative karma from the killing and suffering of the living beings.

 

This view is also subcribed to in the tradition I learned, yet perhaps this only will affect the practice in much higher levels, and not in the first stages.

 

All serious teachers and students of Taoist Internal Alchemy I have met in China are very strict vegetarians.

 

Also most Taoists I have met do not eat any meat products.

 

I have also met some a few Taoists who break the precepts and eat meat, smoke and drink - but maybe they are just not strong willed and can not keep the vows.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

As requested from the moderator of TaoBum, I have moved to this forum : http://www.daoismworld.com right now.

 

So if you want to talk to me or ask me anything about Taoism, please feel free to go over to this forum and enjoy the new forum. New members for discussion are also welcomed.

 

http://www.daoismworld.com

 

Mak Tin Si

Edited January 8, 2009 by Mak_Tin_Si

[Vajrasattva]

The energy that loose by eating beef is not the energy you guys are thinking about.

 

It is the taoism energy called FAAT 法. This is a very intensive and condensed energy inherit in the system of Taoism by generations to generations. If you get attuned by a lineage, you will gain this power, if not you will not have ANY of this power. This cannot be gained by doing chi gung or taichi or meditation, it must be gained by attunements from a master, a real taoist priest master. So you will think that it doesn;t make a difference for you to eat beef or not, because you DO NOT have the power I talked about. This energy is used for FU, mantras, spells and anything in Taoism which gives the power you are suppose to get.

 

If you try to do the spells, mantras and FU with CHI, you only get the very little babish effect like a water gun dripping down water.. But I am using REAL GUNS that bust anything out.

 

 

Again not true : )

[Starjumper]

Hey, waitaminute, I'm a Taoist, and I eat meat. My teacher put it this way once when I was waxing poetic about vegetarian. "If you are sitting in a cave all day humming to yourself you can eat sprouts but if you are doing this chi kung you need to eat meat!"

[dao zhen]

I do not mean any disresepct to the Tao Bums here.

 

But I feel I must say something on this topic.

 

Taoism is an ancient art from China.

 

Most of what is called Taoism in the West is just some form of Qigong, and not really what you would learn and experience in a Real Taoist Lineage Training.

 

If one has not been innitiated into a lineage, and gone through the ceremony and transmission.....

 

Then really they have no idea at all what such Lineage Ceremony and Transmission is about.

 

Correct?

 

I am sure many members have done some sort of training here, and maybe even some are members of a tradition that has lineage and ceremony.

 

But until you take part in a Taoist Lineage, then really, you can not comment with authority on the subject.

 

The practice, methods and magic of Taoism is still mostly unknown - in China and the West -

 

What is known in the public, and talked about is just the very tip of the iceberg.

 

It is still a very secret art, and has knowledge, magic, and methods that I have yet to see expressed in any other living wisdom tradition - (that I know of) -

 

I respect all tradition.

 

I do not try and comment on a tradition that I have not directly experienced.

 

There are many ways, and many things that truly lie outside of our reasoning mind and our imagination ability...

 

Yet even though these things lie outside of our sphere of consciousness - it does not mean they do not exist....

 

Taoism reaches such an extreme realm - that which lies outside of your current consciousness, imagination and reasoning sphere...

 

 

Again not true : )

 

QUOTE(Mak_Tin_Si @ Dec 21 2008, 12:50 AM)

 

The energy that loose by eating beef is not the energy you guys are thinking about.

 

It is the taoism energy called FAAT 法. This is a very intensive and condensed energy inherit in the system of Taoism by generations to generations. If you get attuned by a lineage, you will gain this power, if not you will not have ANY of this power. This cannot be gained by doing chi gung or taichi or meditation, it must be gained by attunements from a master, a real taoist priest master. So you will think that it doesn;t make a difference for you to eat beef or not, because you DO NOT have the power I talked about. This energy is used for FU, mantras, spells and anything in Taoism which gives the power you are suppose to get.

 

If you try to do the spells, mantras and FU with CHI, you only get the very little babish effect like a water gun dripping down water.. But I am using REAL GUNS that bust anything out.

[Vajrasattva]

Dear Vajrasattva.

 

I hope you are very fine today.

 

I enjoyed your Silat videos, and I studied Silat and Kali a long time ago with Guro Inasanto, and a few others; it is a beautiful art.

 

I would like to share some experience, and perhaps it can give you another view on this subject.

 

Perhaps this is common knowledge for you, and if so, please forgive my post here.

 

I think this is an issue that can really only be understood from experience.

 

Perhaps for me, my first real entry into the internal was with my Shing Yi instructor who I spent 4 years with.

 

When I studied under him, he advised me to eat meat, and it really helped with the system, and we worked on many different aspects of internal cultivation, leading to many ability and experience - external qi ability, drawing qi from nature, circulating this external qi in the body, building and strengthing of the wei qi or protective qi, etc.

 

After this training and experience - THIS WAS INTERNAL - I had real experiences, and some real ability and skill.....

 

Or so I thought.....

 

Later on in life, I met my Internal Alchemy teacher....

 

Part of his training was to abstain from all meat, and eat a very simple diet -mostly vegetables - and during intensive trainings, to eat very little food - also no spice was allowed - and we drank only hot boiled water.

 

During the first intensive training, experiences arose, and events took place that were far / far / far outside of anything I had experienced, read about, or could have imagined.....

 

It was taught during the theory lessons, that the reason for the diet is to creat a condition for the Yang Qi to enter.

 

We must do the work to create an environment that will provide a proper "home" for this Qi to arise.

 

Meat creates a condiiton that will not alow this Qi to arrive.

 

Of course there are many kinds of Qi, and many qualities of Qi that are within our human form we can cultivate also.

 

This cultivation of Yang Qi or the Qi that embodies the emptiness that surrounds Heaven and Earth are perhaps something unique to this Alchemy Tradition.

 

From my experience in other systems of Qigong and Internal Martial Arts, they do not teach this cultivation of Yang Qi.

 

I am not sure though, as I do not know everything, and have just learned a little.

 

Just wanted to give a different view, that in some paths, eating meat can enhance the training, while in others eating meat can be a hinderance to the training.

 

There is another view on eating meat that one will take on negative karma from the killing and suffering of the living beings.

 

This view is also subcribed to in the tradition I learned, yet perhaps this only will affect the practice in much higher levels, and not in the first stages.

 

All serious teachers and students of Taoist Internal Alchemy I have met in China are very strict vegetarians.

 

Also most Taoists I have met do not eat any meat products.

 

I have also met some a few Taoists who break the precepts and eat meat, smoke and drink - but maybe they are just not strong willed and can not keep the vows.

 

I hope we meet one day brother. I also trained with Guru Dan Inosanto. He was my 1st "intro" to Silat. He is a great man.

 

Many blessings to you.

 

I received training from many great teachers.

One was infact to transmute ill effects of meat & also to deal with the karmas.

ALL of my teachers that knew what they where doing ate meat.

Meat is a wonderful sacrament if you know what you are doing and if you give time to Bless & honor & transmute the energies aiding you on your path that are with in the meat the almighty provides for you.

 

I have been very lucky & Blessed to learn from many great sources:

 

Bon Po

Nyingma

Taoist

Native American indian

South American indian

Badui/Javanese & Wali Songo

Sufi

kuala, Aghora & Natha Tantra

 

All of the real Masters I studied under ate meat with no problems or complications.

 

I was vegetarian for 12 years.

 

I can say the difference. I am thankful I listened to my teachers when they said..."its time to eat meat of you want to be able to handle what you will do later on with your body".

 

And guess what? They are 100% correct.

 

If you are Vegetarian More power to you. I wish you success.

 

Peace to you & may we meet one day to share and have a good meal together,

 

ALL FOOD comes from the "SOURCE" and if you understand and have the ability to be a conduit of "Source" you can energize enhance, change the qualities of any substance and also enhance its qualities. It can also become "MEDICINE".

 

Peace & God Bless

 

Santiago Dobles

[dao zhen]

Thank you.

 

Much love to you.

 

I would love to meet one day, maybe it can take place.

 

I think different traditons have different ways.

 

In the path I learned, it is very common for the adept to eat no food at all.

 

Yet, the body becomes very nourished, and in the history, many of the bodies became renewed and youthful, even though the adept was quite old, etc.

 

Just a different teaching and path.

 

I agree, that on one level, food is a VERY important medicine.

 

I just wished to put another view out there, that there are traditions now that do not rely on food as a primary source of energy to nourish the corporeal body.

 

In our school, food is of course a very needed thing in the first stages, but later it is not so important.

 

We have a saying.

 

When Vital Essence is full again - there is no desire or need for sex -

 

When Vital Energy is full again - there is no need for food -

 

When Vital Spirit is full again - there is no need for sleep -

 

Many may not beleive this, but at the mid level, the adept does not take breath any more with the lung.

 

This can be seen that at one level, the adept does into an underground pit for long term practice - maybe like in a hybernation state.....

 

Kind of high level things to talk on......

 

But it can give people a different view point of what is possible, and what other traditions train in, and the results of such training....

 

Much love to you, and thank you for your friendship.

 

Wishing you all the best on your journey.

 

 

 

I hope we meet one day brother. I also trained with Guru Dan Inosanto. He was my 1st "intro" to Silat. He is a great man.

 

Many blessings to you.

 

I received training from many great teachers.

One was infact to transmute ill effects of meat & also to deal with the karmas.

ALL of my teachers that knew what they where doing ate meat.

Meat is a wonderful sacrament if you know what you are doing and if you give time to Bless & honor & transmute the energies aiding you on your path that are with in the meat the almighty provides for you.

 

I have been very lucky & Blessed to learn from many great sources:

 

Bon Po

Nyingma

Taoist

Native American indian

South American indian

Badui/Javanese & Wali Songo

Sufi

kuala, Aghora & Natha Tantra

 

All of the real Masters I studied under ate meat with no problems or complications.

 

I was vegetarian for 12 years.

 

I can say the difference. I am thankful I listened to my teachers when they said..."its time to eat meat of you want to be able to handle what you will do later on with your body".

 

And guess what? They are 100% correct.

 

If you are Vegetarian More power to you. I wish you success.

 

Peace to you & may we meet one day to share and have a good meal together,

 

ALL FOOD comes from the "SOURCE" and if you understand and have the ability to be a conduit of "Source" you can energize enhance, change the qualities of any substance and also enhance its qualities. It can also become "MEDICINE".

 

Peace & God Bless

 

Santiago Dobles

[Mantra68]

You really believe you're taking an aspect of an animal to a higher level when you eat it. LOL

The Elk choses to sacrifice itself for humans LOL

O blood types need meat LOL

If one wants to eat meat fine but please don't rationalize, don't make excuses that the animal is suffering because it sees you are hungry and desire it, so it sacrifices itself. If it weren't for you killing and eating it, it would never reach a higher spiritual realm. LOL

Just enjoy it.

In actuality the way animals are treated and killed today is cruel and inhumane ( Actually the way people in general act, humane might be a better term).

Without going into detail, animals go to their death unwillingly,and in fear. This fear goes into their body and blood and there it remains. This it what you are truly eating.

I did not say these are my beliefs. If you'll read closer I said "One way to look at it..."

 

Take the second argument up with the Natives.

 

I hear you though man. It is a nasty situation, but is it any nastier than having to bear the karma of hacking animals to death yourself? There are those at a less affected level doing that service for the rest of us, so that we can frolic in the divine.

 

Just kidding.

 

Of course, to actually hunt an animal and take it's life to sustain your own seems quite natural (we been doin' it for a few million years, yo) and I am sure can be a deeply spiritual experience. The reverence and gratitude you would have with the animal would be something significant and meaningful. So, maybe personally taking game for your sustenance is the best way to go, if you are going to be a meat eater.

 

I don't know. Drive through at In and Out Burger is sounding pretty damn good too right now. My canines are dripping in anticipation...

[Starjumper]

Yet, the body becomes very nourished, and in the history, many of the bodies became renewed and youthful, even though the adept was quite old, etc.

 

Just a different teaching and path.

 

I agree, that on one level, food is a VERY important medicine.

 

I just wished to put another view out there, that there are traditions now that do not rely on food as a primary source of energy to nourish the corporeal body.

 

In our school, food is of course a very needed thing in the first stages, but later it is not so important.

 

We have a saying.

 

When Vital Essence is full again - there is no desire or need for sex -

 

When Vital Energy is full again - there is no need for food -

 

When Vital Spirit is full again - there is no need for sleep -

 

Many may not beleive this, but at the mid level, the adept does not take breath any more with the lung.

 

This can be seen that at one level, the adept does into an underground pit for long term practice - maybe like in a hybernation state.....

 

 

 

This makes sense to me and I was thinking of writing along the same lines. That eating me is best during the beginning stages but later as we become more attuned to our bodies the purification effect of vegetarian adds energ, later eating more raw foods seems like a good idea.

 

I have heard of breatharians.

 

In the path I learned, it is very common for the adept to eat no food at all.

 

What path is that?

Edited December 21, 2008 by Starjumper7

[dao zhen]

This makes sense to me and I was thinking of writing along the same lines. That eating me is best during the beginning stages but later as we become more attuned to our bodies the purification effect of vegetarian adds energ, later eating more raw foods seems like a good idea.

 

I have heard of breatharians.

What path is that?

 

The Traditional Art of Taoist Internal Alchemy.

 

It has a very long tradition in China, and actually the practice predates any appearance of the term and organized practice of what we know of as Taoism.

 

The path that was taught comes from the branch of Lung Men Pai - though our teacher did not stress this aspect, and only stressed self cultivation, and actual attainment of the various levels and steps.

 

It was told to me, that if you are not willing to follow the rules and guidelines related to diet, it is best to not waste your time to practice the methods........

 

So diet is a very important first step in this school of practice.

 

I think no one really understands Yang Qi really......

 

Most just talk about in in relation to an errection, or some thing of this nature and that is the view......

 

Really, there is much, much more.......

 

So the masters renew the body through Yang Qi.......

 

Not through "air"...........

 

The breathing function of the lung and nose stop............

 

Another function begins to take place........

 

Congenital Breathing.....

[yangluchan]

I think I will take the general world wide scientific stance on the "pain" of plants... there is none. They have no nervous system and no central perceptive organ to process pain. What good would a feeling of pain do a plant anyways? Its not like they can avoid it. You have to understand that feeling pain is an adaptive ability of some creatures, not a universal quality. It allows creatures to avoid things that may cause them death, and thus no further procreation, as procreation is much more difficult in the animal kingdom than in the plant. I think copious studies, observations and reason are much better views than the word of a horse whisperer in a book you are reading.

 

I'm not really talking about pain on a scientific level here, I'm talking about the perception of that living thing of it's life being taken. If we are all connected, then there might be truth in the fact that plant can perceive things as well, perhaps it's not the plant itself (a soul) but the facet of the Tao that is represents that store these thoughts etc?

 

I don't really know, but for some years now I've felt that trees are more "intelligent" than I thought before, and I feel they are indeed aware of me as I am aware of them. They have a purpose here as I have a purpose here. If they are indeed aware, I guess they would also have a "thought" about being chopped down, even if they don't have a central nervous system?

 

Still just rambling on!

[wudangquan]

Hi DZ,

 

Don't all of the 15G San Feng Pai guys eat meat? or most of them?

[Mak_Tin_Si]

As requested from the moderator of TaoBum, I have moved to this forum : http://www.daoismworld.com right now.

 

So if you want to talk to me or ask me anything about Taoism, please feel free to go over to this forum and enjoy the new forum. New members for discussion are also welcomed.

 

http://www.daoismworld.com

 

Mak Tin Si

Edited January 8, 2009 by Mak_Tin_Si

[dao zhen]

Hey WQ.

 

How is it going?

 

I am taking a nice journey from the 23, and wont be around here till mid Feb or a bit later.....

 

I just got invited to meet with a elder 14th Generation Dragon Gate Taoist, and he has offered to share his teachings.........

 

Excited, but little bit nervous - he is a very old school - most DGT are 19th G nowadays......

 

But good chance for some new experiences.....

 

So am going to investigate this......

 

I like what you are doing with Teacher Bi - I took some language lessons from him in the past, and he is a good guy - I like the paintings in his living room - hope you take good care of him -

 

my apartment in town is about 5 min from his apartment.

 

This may get me in trouble - politics -

 

I do not really consider ANY of the 15th Generation "San Feng Pai" Kung Fu teachers - practicing Taoists.

 

None of them have been ordained in a temple.

 

They are Kung Fu students - and now are teachers of Kung Fu.

 

Some have had some basic training in Taoism, but nothing in depth from my observations.

 

I think they have much of value they can teach and I love the movement arts.

 

They also have some very valuable Dao Yin methods and sets to teach that are good.

 

But they are not ordained or practicing Taoists.....

 

I think the only one in the group to get any real temple training was Teacher Yuan - a few years -

but he left the temple, and lives as a lay person and teaches in his public academy.........

 

Yes, all of those Kung Fu teachers I have met eat meat, and some smoke, and some drink also.......

 

Nothing wrong with that.

 

But most of the Taoists in the temples in Wudang belong to QuanZhen - and this sect has certain precepts...

 

I was taught a standard by my teachers of what it means to be a Taoist.

 

To be honest, I can not always live up to that standard, but I am trying, and every year I have more growth.

 

We can see very clearly in the precepts outlined by the ancients what behavior is ok, and what is not for a Taoist.

 

I advise many to read Eva Wongs translation of 7 Taoist Masters, and see how the Founder Wang Chong Yang behaved, and how his 7 students behaved, and the type of life style they led.

 

This is a good example of Taoist behavior, lifestyle, and precepts.

 

Having a top knot, calling yourself a member of a lineage, and wearing robes does not make one a Taoist in my view.....

 

It is about how you live your daily life, following the precepts, cultivation of the heart, developing De, and harmonizing with nature........

 

Maybe we can travel together one time, and you can meet some real Taoists I know.

 

I have one teacher on Huashan, and he goes into the caves there every spring for 45 days - no food - no water - just sits in lotus - 45 days straight -

 

- I am going to try for 15 days maybe this spring - but under close supervision -

 

That is a real Taoist in my opinion.........

 

Yet this is just my opinion.......

 

Nothing is absolute........

 

Much love to you.........

 

 

Hi DZ,

 

Don't all of the 15G San Feng Pai guys eat meat? or most of them?

[Mak_Tin_Si]

As requested from the moderator of TaoBum, I have moved to this forum : http://www.daoismworld.com right now.

 

So if you want to talk to me or ask me anything about Taoism, please feel free to go over to this forum and enjoy the new forum. New members for discussion are also welcomed.

 

http://www.daoismworld.com

 

Mak Tin Si

Edited January 8, 2009 by Mak_Tin_Si

[wudangquan]

Dz (I should probably take this to PM but it's ok to talk openly I think),

 

Actually, since I know of you, but don't know you yet I asked the question to kind of diplomatically gauge your take on those things.

 

- And we're both on the same page as far as the particular issue goes, I think.

 

I'm actually not in Shiyan at the moment - I came back down to Kunming for a bit because my main teacher is at Longquan so I need to see him, and my SJ teacher is here as well (and happens to be my gf's father, so seeing her is a motivation as well!).

 

I know that we talked a few times by email a year or two ago . . . I'm personally not really interested in Martial arts, much . . . I do SJ because it's fun, but . . . There's nobody for me to fight except myself. Triumph of the voice over the echo and all that. . .

 

I should be back up there after the new year, and definitely want to look you up because it seems like we are interested in similar things.

 

As for Bi - I think he's a great guy, and the project is basically benefitting his wife, so he can do some other things with his remaining time, and so I wanted to manage it to establish or strengthen a karmic relationship with him in the future.

 

If you get down south in the next few weeks or so drop me a line and I will take you around Longquan and introduce you to my main teacher and show you around Yunnan and some good caves and hot springs I know (and marijuana mountain!).

 

J

 

 

 

 

Hey WQ.

 

How is it going?

 

I am taking a nice journey from the 23, and wont be around here till mid Feb or a bit later.....

 

I just got invited to meet with a elder 14th Generation Dragon Gate Taoist, and he has offered to share his teachings.........

 

Excited, but little bit nervous - he is a very old school - most DGT are 19th G nowadays......

 

But good chance for some new experiences.....

 

So am going to investigate this......

 

I like what you are doing with Teacher Bi - I took some language lessons from him in the past, and he is a good guy - I like the paintings in his living room - hope you take good care of him -

 

my apartment in town is about 5 min from his apartment.

 

This may get me in trouble - politics -

 

I do not really consider ANY of the 15th Generation "San Feng Pai" Kung Fu teachers - practicing Taoists.

 

None of them have been ordained in a temple.

 

They are Kung Fu students - and now are teachers of Kung Fu.

 

Some have had some basic training in Taoism, but nothing in depth from my observations.

 

I think they have much of value they can teach and I love the movement arts.

 

They also have some very valuable Dao Yin methods and sets to teach that are good.

 

But they are not ordained or practicing Taoists.....

 

I think the only one in the group to get any real temple training was Teacher Yuan - a few years -

but he left the temple, and lives as a lay person and teaches in his public academy.........

 

Yes, all of those Kung Fu teachers I have met eat meat, and some smoke, and some drink also.......

 

Nothing wrong with that.

 

But most of the Taoists in the temples in Wudang belong to QuanZhen - and this sect has certain precepts...

 

I was taught a standard by my teachers of what it means to be a Taoist.

 

To be honest, I can not always live up to that standard, but I am trying, and every year I have more growth.

 

We can see very clearly in the precepts outlined by the ancients what behavior is ok, and what is not for a Taoist.

 

I advise many to read Eva Wongs translation of 7 Taoist Masters, and see how the Founder Wang Chong Yang behaved, and how his 7 students behaved, and the type of life style they led.

 

This is a good example of Taoist behavior, lifestyle, and precepts.

 

Having a top knot, calling yourself a member of a lineage, and wearing robes does not make one a Taoist in my view.....

 

It is about how you live your daily life, following the precepts, cultivation of the heart, developing De, and harmonizing with nature........

 

Maybe we can travel together one time, and you can meet some real Taoists I know.

 

I have one teacher on Huashan, and he goes into the caves there every spring for 45 days - no food - no water - just sits in lotus - 45 days straight -

 

- I am going to try for 15 days maybe this spring - but under close supervision -

 

That is a real Taoist in my opinion.........

 

Yet this is just my opinion.......

 

Nothing is absolute........

 

Much love to you.........

[dao zhen]

Hey WQ.

 

Sounds good.

 

I am going to Xian on 23, and then heading over to visit my Zen friends in Kamakura, Japan for New Years - and maybe do a bit of Zen retreat and temple exploration - and enjoy the hotsprings....

 

I should be back mid Jan / Feb.....

 

Not sure of my exact plans.......

 

Working out meeting this 14th G DGT - heavy guy and should be very interesting - he teaches some old school Wudang Internal arts also......

 

I think we for sure should meet up, and share stories.......

 

Send me a text to my phone, so I can save your number........

 

Innate Nature........

 

Yes, we are on the same page........

 

Dz (I should probably take this to PM but it's ok to talk openly I think),

 

Actually, since I know of you, but don't know you yet I asked the question to kind of diplomatically gauge your take on those things.

 

- And we're both on the same page as far as the particular issue goes, I think.

 

If you get down south in the next few weeks or so drop me a line and I will take you around Longquan and introduce you to my main teacher and show you around Yunnan and some good caves and hot springs I know (and marijuana mountain!).

 

J

[Guest allan]

In the dual cultivation of essence and bodily life, the real Daoist masters are the heavenly immortals. They have laid down some precepts which have to be followed and one of them is for disciples to be vegetarian.

 

Even if cultivators (not necessarily Daoists) eat meat now, there will come a time at higher levels where they have to become vegetarians to progress any further.

 

If fellow members want to learn more about how food can help in their cultivation, read up the NEIYEH. If they want to know what type of vegetables/plants to avoid to be taken in, try the Shurangama Sutra (Lengyen Ching).

 

Each sect or type of training has their own rules. There are too many to follow.

 

I only follow what is taught by the ancients (the holy sages and the three Great Sages), the real Daoist and/or Buddhist masters (heavenly immortals and Buddhas).

 

But Tao is very fair; you have a choice not to listen at all. And go on your own way (pun intended)!

[Vajrasattva]

Great respond. Have you ever learned this before from a REAL source?

 

If not, then you are doing a "false speech" to me. How clever is that to comment someone who is teaching this kind of art?

 

 

False Speech????

 

No my friend I speak the Truth. My lineages some of them go back to over 18,000 years on this planet (Much older than Taoism in China. Infact some of them inspired Taoism.) Some of my lineages are PURE taoist taught to me BY chinese, some are Pure Tibetan, Pure Hindu, Some are Ancient Persian & Egyptian, some are Ancient Native traditions from the Americas Some are native traditions form Indonesia. Some are MUCH older than what is "out" there going back to the one true "ABSOLUTE".

 

My gurus upon their request suggested I eat meat. So I do. I was vegetarian for 12 years. I have been at this I have 16 years of experience and hold a few lineages of my own & have consent from some of the best masters in the world to teach what I teach. You are welcome to come see me and stand in look me in the eyes and tell me I am a liar.

 

Peace to you & Success in your practice and your further cultivation. A real Master can eat whatever food he or she is provided from the Source regardless of what it is with out any complications.

 

If you can not do this simple thing you are not any where NEAR being a real master. If you can not transmute a HAPPY MEAL or a Whopper you are not a Master yet.

 

Peace to you & God Bless

 

Santiago Dobles

Edited December 21, 2008 by Vajrasattva

[Anabhogya-Carya]

 

 

Still just rambling on!

 

Yes, that is all you are doing.

[Starjumper]

The Traditional Art of Taoist Internal Alchemy.

 

It has a very long tradition in China, and actually the practice predates any appearance of the term and organized practice of what we know of as Taoism.

 

The path that was taught comes from the branch of Lung Men Pai - though our teacher did not stress this aspect, and only stressed self cultivation, and actual attainment of the various levels and steps.

 

It was told to me, that if you are not willing to follow the rules and guidelines related to diet, it is best to not waste your time to practice the methods........

 

So diet is a very important first step in this school of practice.

 

I think no one really understands Yang Qi really......

 

Most just talk about in in relation to an errection, or some thing of this nature and that is the view......

 

Really, there is much, much more.......

 

So the masters renew the body through Yang Qi.......

 

Not through "air"...........

 

The breathing function of the lung and nose stop............

 

Another function begins to take place........

 

Congenital Breathing.....

 

Thanks Dao Zhen. My path is internal alchemy also but it comes from the kung fu side, yet it is still very much Taoist. My teacher is one of the five most powerful chi kung masters and is functionally omniscient so I'm sure he knows about all these things. He taught differently though.

 

The path of Tien Shan Chi Kung (NOT associated with Tien Shan kung fu from Taiwan!) and my teacher's Way is so much into what I feel is the true spirit of Taoism, is so much into the formless, that we have no rules or guidelines. Everything we do is simply what becomes a natural tendency as a result of our practice and Te, and the practice does seem to take one along these steps, or at least some of them. I frequently find that I am doing 'things' that are parts of advanced practices that I was not taught and am simply doing them because I discovered them and it feels right. Keep in mind I'm not doing this from the view point of beginner/spontaneous chi kung that many here talk about, but from the viewpoint of someone with extensive training and a good start in the right direction, and that direction is all about the formless, and on every level.

 

As far as my diet is concerned I used to eat more meat, and my teacher said we should do it too, but that was at the beginning stages of practice.

 

The way I feel now is that I should be essentially vegetarian, but it is difficult because I let my wife cook for me, and she doesn't like green stuff. Lately I am feeling more strongly about eating raw foods.

 

So these are my thoughts. We eat meat in the beginning to cultivate strength and chi power but then later we need to be more open to the environment and more 'transparent' and so we become vegetarian because it makes us cleaner. being cleaner makes us more open, sensitive, transparent, and in particular, more open to the spirit realm.

 

Eating more raw food takes us even further in this same direction, and that's the direction of my natural tendency.

Lately I have more of a tendency to not eat, I hardly ever have a desire to eat, even if I feel hungry, and so MAYBE, my body is trying to get into this breatharian state.

 

So we don't have rules or guidelines but maybe I'm still on this path anyway??

 

I have no idea what yang chi is and I don't associate it with anything, for example erections, as you mentioned.

 

I hope you can explain what yang chi is and if you can feel it then what does it feel like and how is it different than 'regular' chi.

 

I think the diet thing can go full circle, depending on what people want, because when my teacher became omniscient he didn't like it. He said it was like being tuned into a news radio station 24 hours a day, and 99% of the news was bad. So he started eating meat and smoking cigars in an effort to turn it off.

 

Sometimes I think it would be nice to be 'taught' the rules and guidelines, but I like being 'formless' because it appeals to my laziness.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Starjumper7

[HupGerk]

Hey yangluchan,

 

Just to let you know, you are quite right about plants being able to communicate and in a way "feel". Not in a human way of course, but damage done to an individual plant can indeed cause increased stress in nearby specimens. Can't remember where I first read this but there have been scientific reports published on it. Btw, I have been doing research into plants for a few years now at the uni so some of us scientists do consider it a possibility.

 

HG

[yangluchan]

Hey yangluchan,

 

Just to let you know, you are quite right about plants being able to communicate and in a way "feel". Not in a human way of course, but damage done to an individual plant can indeed cause increased stress in nearby specimens. Can't remember where I first read this but there have been scientific reports published on it. Btw, I have been doing research into plants for a few years now at the uni so some of us scientists do consider it a possibility.

 

HG

 

Hi HupGerk!

 

VERY interesting indeed! That must mean I'm not as crazy as I thought... Don't know if that is a good or bad thing though...

 

I guess if everything is connected it's only natural that also plants can communicate and "feel", to me it's like every living thing on earth is one of the 10,000 faces of the Tao.

[yangluchan]

Still just rambling on!

 

Yes, that is all you are doing.

 

You say that like it's a BAD thing!?