松永道

Yin Xian Fa and Ling Bao Bi Fa Cultivation Methods

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Does anyone know if any of his students achieved even a fraction of Wang Liping's level? Did any of his students perhaps reach the level where he can for instance divide his original spirit in multiple individuals?

 

I haven't met Wang Liping, so I am not qualified to say. Nor have I ever knowingly seen a Yang Shen projection. Master Wang hasn't yet formally accepted any apprentices, he's taught students, but he hasn't begun to transmit his lineage. Entering the master-apprentice relationship bears a great responsibility. The master is responsible for bringing his apprentice to a certain level, the apprentice is responsible for receiving the transmission and continuing the lineage. A teacher, on the other hand, has no obligation to his student. He teaches, getting it or not is the student's responsibility. The student has no obligation to practice, and no obligation to teach other students.

 

Rarely do students achieve even a fraction of their teacher's ability. Those who do, do it of their own accord.

 

Master Wang certainly has some very high level students - many of his students are masters in their own right. But apart from Shen Laoshi, I don't know many who have studied only from Wang Liping's teachings.

 

It's my personal suggestion that anyone who wishes to study with Wang Liping or Shen Zhigang begins studying with an accessibly teacher or master in their area. Gaining expertise and transforming your body through internal martial arts would certainly give you a good foundation for genuine internal alchemy (In my opinion, any practice that develops a strong body and good qi flow would suffice, including Yoga, Yi Jin Jing qigong forms, etc).

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Hi there Ken - any news on your blog? I've been meaning to ask you, what criteria does Mr Zhigang use when he chooses to reveal informations about the nature of the theory and training, on the longmenpai blog. Are they just a teaser, or does he expect for a certain view to cristalize in the mind of the reader. Thanks

 

edit: Ken, if you think you can post some info here that we can't find otherwise, please feel free to do so. Regarding the link you provided, I can't yet read all that, I need maybe another year of learning. Any other English sources?

 

Hi L1,

 

In prinicple, the theory of the Longmen Paia practice are available quite freely. For example, the Classics Ling Bao Bi Fa, Daoist teachings of Zhong and Lu and the Secret of the Golden flowers are all theory texts of Longmen Pai and they are quite readily avaliable to the public. The commentary on these classics are also valuable but obviously you want to find commentary written by people who have actual experience in the cultivation, e.g. Shen Laoshi's books, and not some academic scholars or amateurs practitioner wannabe.

 

The details and nifty parts of the training are not avaliable to the public. However, outlines of the practice you can find on the internet like the website i posted earlier (that website is open with the consent of Master Wang) or Shen Laoshi's Xing Da Dao book. On that website for example, you will find the outline of Yin Xian Fa but there is no explanations of the detail. There are also detailed outline of some walking and standing practice, i guess because they are safer practice.

 

However, i need to reiterate that these materials are references for people who have received teachings from Master Wang or his senior students. It's not for the general public to try it themselves. There are two reasons for this, firstly, trying these practice on your own without any guidance can cause harm to yourself. Secondly, you need oral transmissions in order for it to work, if you believe what's written in opening the Dragon gate, you better believe that there are great power in the lineage and you need permission from the Master in order to archive any result.

 

The only reliable sources of information in English on Longmen Pai are Shen Laoshi's English blog and this website

http://www.dao-de.org/dragongate/

 

I believe this website is created by Ms Kathy Li so the information in there is reliable.

 

Ken

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First of all I agree pretty much with the response posted by Song Yong Dao earlier.

 

I just want to add that one need to distingush between core cultivations and applications. Master Wang has only publicly taught the core Longmen Pai training but this alone is probably the most advanced practice you will ever find. Application-wise I beleived he has only taught healing art to advanced students. Other applications are reserved for formal lineage disciple. The primary goal of Master Wang's teaching is health and wellness and for capable students, the ability to heal others and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

 

I'm quoting the above post from the "Mo Pai and Dragon Gate" thread, because it's connected to a question I have.

 

Wang Liping's biography "Opening the Dragon Gate" makes a very interesting reading and judging from it Mr. Wang is truly a high-level master.

 

Does anyone know if any of his students achieved even a fraction of Wang Liping's level? Did any of his students perhaps reach the level where he can for instance divide his original spirit in multiple individuals?

 

Why am I asking these question? You see, we hear all these wonderful stories about John Chang, Wang Liping and other practitioners of traditional methods who reached very high levels. People get all enthusiastic and they want of course to practice such methods.

 

In my opinion though the true test of a teaching and a Master is if through a dedicated, disciplined and correct practice you can at least achieve one quarter or half of what he achieved. The emphasis here is on DEDICATED, DISCIPLINED and CORRECT practice i. e. you do what your teacher told you and not hundred of other techniques alongside of it. Further if he for instance says 100 days of celibacy you do it. No discussions, no debates, no: "But I can't. But I'm too busy. But I have a family. But...". In essence, you do not lower the teachings to adapt them to yourself - on the contrary, you try to raise yourself to such a point, where you can practice the teachings in their unadulterated form.

 

If you are studying under somebody, no matter how advanced he is, and after years of practice the only result you get is "being healthier and looking younger" then there obviously is a problem.

Edited by Ken

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Hi Ken, do you know if the founder of Falun Gong is really a disciple of Master Wang Liping? I have heard this someone in the forum and since you know Master Wang, can you please verify this? Thank you.

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Hi Ken, do you know of the founder of Falun Gong is really a disciple of Master Wang Liping? I have heard this someone in the forum and since you know Master Wang, can you please verify this? Thank you.

 

Like I said before, people should use their brains before making questions and assumptions.

Associating Wang Liping with Falun movement is not what Wang Liping or his followers would want, is it?

Just think of the difficult time Chinese practicioners from China have now, because of the events related to the Falungong. Duh...

Another thing, there are thousands of people that are participating at the seminars of Master Wang.

So if you went there once or twice, what difference does it make.

There are many more thousand of "disciples" out there.

And who's "clone" are you anyway?

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S.Y.D,

 

if you please,

i'm trying to better my understanding on the concepts of Ling, Ling Hun, and Shen.

What is the difference between them, and which are their "residence".

In what step of the training do interactions with these "concepts" occur.

 

Thank you

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In Xing Da Dao, it stated that yuan shen is separated into yin shen and yang shen. That yin shen is cultivated first and it doesn't follow any law and when one completed cultivating it then one can see all the energy channels and organs in the body. Then one start to cultivate the yang shen which is very animate and it supposed to be the immortal embryo that the taoist talked about. In the longmen pai blog of ken, it stated that the human body is composed of the shi shen, yuan shen, and ling xing. I would like to know what is the ling xing after one is born? does it transform into yuan shen? since according to the tao te jing "dao create one, one create two, two create three, and three create the myriad things," and since ken said that ling xing is the "one" and the embryo is the "three" does that mean that yuan shen is the "two" since yang shen is what the immortal embryo is. So does that mean when ling xing enters the body, it turn into yuan shen?

Edited by kr4zyac3
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Ah, what the heck! Bump :ph34r:

 

PS: "Don't you know, bump it up, you gotta bump it up..." :lol:

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Tardy I know, but I'm at a loss for what to say. I've reentered a period of reveling in the basics. I love the basics. Over and over firming the foundation.

 

As such perhaps I'm projecting, but I don't want to fuel any grasping at the branches. More theory upon theory just stirs the mind. Essential to this practice is a real foundation in the body, a genuine stillness. And this is simply practiced. It's too simple. Practice is like boiling water, the start is exciting, you turn on the fire. Then you watch and watch and it seems nothing is happening. Then a few bubbles and suddenly BOILING. Just like that.

 

Don't keep switching the pots, the water, the burner - the secret ingredient is patience.

 

So what am I to write?

 

Anyone who has already developed their practice has no need for me to write on the Ling Bao Bi Fa. The prerequisites for real neigong are too simple. Practice and develop the body, the Jing, and develop a foundation in stillness meditation.

 

---

 

On a scholarly topic like the difference between Ling, Linghun, and Shen - I'm not sure I have the depth of experience to really explain the differences. They are all terms for Spirit. Ling is generally associated with ghosts (lingguai), gods (shenling), the soul (linghun and xinling). The theory of animism is called Linghun lun (lun just means theory). Ling is also associated with quickness and cleverness.

 

Shen is even more complicated. It's also associated with spirit and deities, cleverness, and additionally, unlike Ling, with vitality. The Shen referred to in Chinese Medicine is this Shen - meaning vitality, vigor, a brightness in the eyes and mind.

 

Lonny Jarrett, a 5-Elements practitioner (a field of acupuncture that is quite different from TCM) claims that Shen is associated with Qi and therefore Yang and Ling is associated with blood and therefore Yin. An abundance of Yang Shen results in bright eyes, a vital body and clear mind. An abundance of Yin Ling manifests as a harmony with the universe, being on your path, very wu-wei, life does without doing. A balanced abundance of Yin and Yang then is what he defines as manifesting destiny.

 

Personally, when I think of Shen the English word that comes closest is consciousness. And depending on how you use it this can be personal or a more universal, collective consciousness. Jing is the material foundation of Shen - the two are inseparable. Kind of like the notion in physics of space-time, the Daoist fabric of the universe is jing-shen. Material-consciousness.

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Tardy I know, but I'm at a loss for what to say. I've reentered a period of reveling in the basics. I love the basics. Over and over firming the foundation.

 

As such perhaps I'm projecting, but I don't want to fuel any grasping at the branches. More theory upon theory just stirs the mind. Essential to this practice is a real foundation in the body, a genuine stillness. And this is simply practiced. It's too simple. Practice is like boiling water, the start is exciting, you turn on the fire. Then you watch and watch and it seems nothing is happening. Then a few bubbles and suddenly BOILING. Just like that.

 

Don't keep switching the pots, the water, the burner - the secret ingredient is patience.

 

So what am I to write?

 

Anyone who has already developed their practice has no need for me to write on the Ling Bao Bi Fa. The prerequisites for real neigong are too simple. Practice and develop the body, the Jing, and develop a foundation in stillness meditation.

 

---

 

On a scholarly topic like the difference between Ling, Linghun, and Shen - I'm not sure I have the depth of experience to really explain the differences. They are all terms for Spirit. Ling is generally associated with ghosts (lingguai), gods (shenling), the soul (linghun and xinling). The theory of animism is called Linghun lun (lun just means theory). Ling is also associated with quickness and cleverness.

 

Shen is even more complicated. It's also associated with spirit and deities, cleverness, and additionally, unlike Ling, with vitality. The Shen referred to in Chinese Medicine is this Shen - meaning vitality, vigor, a brightness in the eyes and mind.

 

Lonny Jarrett, a 5-Elements practitioner (a field of acupuncture that is quite different from TCM) claims that Shen is associated with Qi and therefore Yang and Ling is associated with blood and therefore Yin. An abundance of Yang Shen results in bright eyes, a vital body and clear mind. An abundance of Yin Ling manifests as a harmony with the universe, being on your path, very wu-wei, life does without doing. A balanced abundance of Yin and Yang then is what he defines as manifesting destiny.

 

Personally, when I think of Shen the English word that comes closest is consciousness. And depending on how you use it this can be personal or a more universal, collective consciousness. Jing is the material foundation of Shen - the two are inseparable. Kind of like the notion in physics of space-time, the Daoist fabric of the universe is jing-shen. Material-consciousness.

are you a neigong practitioner? have you read the xing da dao?

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It's too simple.

Practice is like boiling water, the start is exciting, you turn on the fire.

Then you watch and watch and it seems nothing is happening.

Then a few bubbles and suddenly BOILING. Just like that.

Don't keep switching the pots, the water, the burner - the secret ingredient is patience.

 

Great! Genius! I thank myself for bumping it up again ^_^

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are you a neigong practitioner? have you read the xing da dao?

 

I own it and have read the sections pertinent to my level of practice. At my teacher's behest, I have not delved too much into certain theories before the supporting experience arrives. Too much theory, too soon is more a burden than blessing. Though I do practice neigong, my level is low, so low, I haven't even finished mended my leaks let alone cultivated to the door step of real Yang Shen practice.

 

But if there's a specific section you'd like to discuss, by all means bring it up, maybe Ken will add some of his insights.

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Where can you get a full copy of the Yin Xian Fa and Ling Bao Bi Fa in english or chinese?

 

Ape

You can download Xing Da Dao from the following link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3MSVSCE6. It has the practice instruction and theory in it, but it is in chinese though.

 

I own it and have read the sections pertinent to my level of practice. At my teacher's behest, I have not delved too much into certain theories before the supporting experience arrives. Too much theory, too soon is more a burden than blessing. Though I do practice neigong, my level is low, so low, I haven't even finished mended my leaks let alone cultivated to the door step of real Yang Shen practice.

 

But if there's a specific section you'd like to discuss, by all means bring it up, maybe Ken will add some of his insights.

are you practicing long men pai neigong? who is your teacher?

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are you practicing long men pai neigong? who is your teacher?

 

Yes. However, my teacher is not a monk, he's a doctor.

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Yes. However, my teacher is not a monk, he's a doctor.

so are you from the north pai or south pai? ur teacher learned from wang liping?

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Yes. However, my teacher is not a monk, he's a doctor.

 

If you were to give any other label of his proffession under a monk the next best I could think of is a Doctor.

 

So its definately not a bad thing that your not learning from a monk.

 

Anyway, more importantly did Lao Tzu have offspring?

Edited by WhiteTiger

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Anyway, more importantly did Lao Tzu have offspring?

 

 

lao-tzu.jpg

Well... there once was this woman and she liked riding my ox... so maybe !

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You can download Xing Da Dao from the following link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3MSVSCE6. It has the practice instruction and theory in it, but it is in chinese though.

 

 

Is this the Link for Shen Zhigangs Book. Thanks, We need to get a step by step Translation & Post on this forum.

 

Cheers,

Edited by r.w.smith

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Hello S.Y.D,

 

I loved your article on Shen, Ling and Ling Hun, even though it was on another thread.

I still think that knowing a bit about the elemental basics of human being is a good thing. I understand that the traditional way you are not taught anything prior to experimenting it yourself, yet I'm not sure is common for each and every daoist school. Maybe it stems from buddhist concepts of the mind and reality?!

 

I'd like to know more about the Jing part.

This Jing seems to be a lot of different things, according to the context. MTC depicts it quite differently than alchemy. Some say that Jing is Xing, Form. Others speak about the prenatal and postnatal aspects. Also the Yin and Yang aspect of Jing. I'd like to see your oppinion on it, if you please.

 

Also, if you belive if there is or isn't a link between Jing and human physiology, hormones and neurotransmitters.

Also what is the non-physical part of the Jing.

 

Many sides of the problem, you can pick any of it (or all)

 

Thank you

 

E

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Some important Taoist concepts mentioned here needs further explorations:

 

Superb Virtue (上德): born and still in a yang state , these people are said to be wealthy in the context of "method-wealth-companion-place " (法,財,侣,地) , the 4 factors necessary for accompanying physical and spiritual eternity. Simplify speaking, Superb Virtue are people not deficient in jing , so their way of climbing onto the ladder of jing-qi-shen are much easier than others . When people are still having troubles in those trivial and layers , they enter Enlightenment with a simple stroke of turning..

 

 

Poor Virtue(下德) : Most of the people are said to be Poor Virtue for they find themselves situated in a degenerated , post -heavenly state before they are lucky enough to meet Tao earlier in their adolescence. Entangled in a yin-spirit and yin-body , their ways towards pre-heavenly status are always very difficult ,if not impossible . Only relying on their consciousness , hardly can they attain the pre-heavenly status even though they know the position of dantian well , know how to focus their mind skifuly...etc.

 

Spiritual Gong(性功) : Only by practicing the Spiritual gong, i.e. , nourishing the yin-mind, 3rd eye..visualization , people are unlikely capable of attaining Spiritual/ physical eternity . On the contrary, these spirit , even after years of spiritual cultivation, become ghost/ evil instead of gods after leaving the physical body. One of the most important arguments from the Taoist point of view against those mediocre, narrow-minded Buddhist practice .

 

Physical Gong(命功): In orthodox Taoist practice , Spiritual Gong must be done together with the Physical Gong, i.e., nourishing spirit with yang-jing and yang-qi ; It is only with the reverse support of yang , can our yin-spirit be fundamentally changed and upgraded . Just imagining external qi entering our body or our becoming part of the universe is unlikely to be fruitful ...

Edited by exorcist_1699
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Thank you Exorcist. Really interesting. You seem to have touched a little on the topic of my interest in the paragraph about Shang De. If you want to, you can give us here your perspective on Jing.

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