forgiveness without repentance....

[old3bob]

 

We hear and see examples of people extending unconditional forgiveness for harm done to them  but sometimes without there also being the very important step of some type of repentance by the one that did them harm! 

 

Anyway I copied the excerpt below as an example about that from a much longer text...(with Bible related sayings although I think not limited to Abrahamic religions)

 

"But wait! I missed a step. Something VERY important has to happen first. Something that EVERYONE forgets when they talk about MERCY and forgiveness.

 

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and IF HE REPENT, forgive him.

 

Did he say to forgive your brother for his sins against you?  NO! He said REBUKE HIM! Judge him for his sins against you, and TELL HIM HE WAS WRONG! And IF HE REPENTS, IF HE REPENTS THEN, and ONLY THEN, FORGIVE HIM!

 

That’s what He said. IF HE REPENT is in that scripture. And it’s there for a reason. “forgiving” a brother without him first repenting to you, is tantamount to “forgiving” a shark for biting your arm off, as it swims around for a bigger piece. (not a very good example imo since a shark is not human and biting is in its nature) But hold on, you say – Christ said to forgive a brother SEVENTY TIMES SEVEN – and should we do no less? You’re absolutely right! We should do EXACTLY what Christ said and FORGIVE THEM EACH TIME! But wait… in the very next verse here it says…

 

Verse 4:  And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

 

For EACH AND EVERY ONE of those SEVEN TIMES in that day that he sinned against you, he has to turn to you and say “I REPENT!“ or, in our language ”I am sorry! I was wrong!” and THEN – ONLY then, mind you – are you to forgive him! "

 

Then again there is also the aspect or act of not burning oneself up with bitterness if repentance was never given, and thus not easy to deal with also "seventy times seven" ! 

Edited yesterday at 11:25 AM by old3bob

[Sanity Check]

King Saul of israel attempted to hunt down and kill David twice.

 

The way David handled both instances is a better example of how to deal in forgiveness and repentance, I think.

 

After the 2nd attempt David said: "there will not be a 3rd time" and moved to another country.

 

 

[Lairg]

A friend phoned a few days ago, sounding hoarse and complaining about her throat.  I asked her if she could visualize a rope around her neck.  She could.  "Who is holding the rope?"    She could see her younger son.

 

So:

- Forgive yourself for being such a shit that he needed to hang you

- Forgive him for having had to hang you

 

A minute later her voice had become normal and she was feeling much better

 

There were more family members involved but  I shortened the account.

 

The events occurred earlier on this timeline

 

 

 

 

Edited 15 hours ago by Lairg

[Cobie]

 

9 hours ago, old3bob said:

… IF HE REPENT, forgive him …

 

Totally right. I posted about it too, a while ago now and can’t find it back.

Was sth like forgiveness is only applicable after the perpetrator:

1) understands it was wrong

2) is sorry

3) has now acquired the skills not do it again

4) has now the mindset to never want to do it again

5) apologises sincerely

6) humbly and sincerely begs for my forgiveness

 

All else is aiding and abetting

 

 

Edited 15 hours ago by Cobie

[old3bob]

 

and perhaps some folks would comment on the last sentence, namely:

 

Then again there is also the aspect or act of not burning oneself up with bitterness if repentance was never given, and thus not easy to deal with also "seventy times seven" !   

 

which could also be lurking in other ways or degrees subconsciously for a long time...

 

Edited 14 hours ago by old3bob

[Cobie]

 

19 minutes ago, old3bob said:

… not burning oneself up with bitterness if repentance was never given …

I “burn up” about it in a flash, clearing all; then I give it to God and forget all about it.  And cut that person out of my life.
 

 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Cobie

[Keith108]

22 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

and perhaps some folks would comment on the last sentence, namely:

 

Then again there is also the aspect or act of not burning oneself up with bitterness if repentance was never given, and thus not easy to deal with also "seventy times seven" !   

 

which could also be lurking in other ways or degrees subconsciously for a long time...

 

This will probably make you cranky, but maybe it will make sense to someone else reading the thread. 

 

Forgiveness is a giving act. And when we give, we should forget two things: "I" and "Give".

 

_/|\_

 

[old3bob]

39 minutes ago, Keith108 said:

This will probably make you cranky, but maybe it will make sense to someone else reading the thread. 

 

Forgiveness is a giving act. And when we give, we should forget two things: "I" and "Give".

 

_/|\_

 

 

well there is that saying about "no blame" which is more or less transcendent but when there are two parties I'd say there will be an "I" with an associated "give", thus no getting around that karmic situation unless one is actually transcendent and not of just of misplaced wishful thinking of themselves as being holy or above it all.

Edited 12 hours ago by old3bob

[Lairg]

I have yet to find a situation where all the guilt lies on one side

 

 

[Nungali]

t gets worse ;  some newage dickwit here  on the commune wants me to forgive her  ( for harming native animals )  ..

 

while she is still doing it and intends to do it in the future  !  

 

[old3bob]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

t gets worse ;  some newage dickwit here  on the commune wants me to forgive her  ( for harming native animals )  ..

 

while she is still doing it and intends to do it in the future  !  

 

 

bummer, what about forest service type regs on that?

[Nungali]

2 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

bummer, what about forest service type regs on that?

 

Well, of course the tables  eventually turned on her  (after she insanely and abusively 'responded ' to me about it )  . 

 

It was about her cat hunting and killing wildlife  ... another breech, we have a no cats rule  ( and you have to understand the situaion regarding that in Australia to know why . 

 

Spoiler

Cats, both feral and pet, devastate Australian wildlife by killing billions of native animals annually through predation, contributing to numerous extinctions and endangering over 120 species, impacting small mammals, birds, reptiles, and spreading diseases like toxoplasmosis, with effective management crucial for biodiversity survival

 

not only that  ;  toxoplasmosis 

• Congenital (Pregnancy) Risks: If a woman is first infected during or just before pregnancy, the parasite can cross the placenta. This may lead to miscarriage, stillbirth, or serious defects in the infant, such as brain damage, blindness, hearing loss, and developmental delays.

BUT ... some say that only occurs if puss eats vermin and wildlife ... which it is doing ! 

 

and guess what she advertises herself as ... and has done a few times, that I have seen    ......   a friggen doolah ! 

 

( A doula is a trained, non-medical professional who provides continuous physical, emotional, and informational support to a person before, during, and after childbirth,) 

 

Now,  its come to light  they have caught protected fauna  ( native brush turkeys ) and had them for dinner and then ... wait for it .... posted on social media about it . That caused an outcry and reports to NPWS  ( national parks and wildlife services  ) . A Ranger came to visit , very upset , but she is currently OS .  Her bf ( equally a dick ) admitted to the eating but not the catching and killing ( that is the offence apparently ) and they will not admit to that . 

 

A member here is head of the local environment center . She has pointed out in an official letter to the commune authority ( a non-for profit  pty  ltd )  outlining her breeches of company policy and calling the directors to act on it .  But they are now a hopeless bunch  ... and used to, until recently , included this 'problem woman ' .