No, you don't have to build a Dantian

[ChiDragon]

4 minutes ago, Forestgreen said:

Or, you could just read the thread.  Or maybe just my posts. 

It's not like it is one of the threads from "the summer if love", with a post count above 1000.

Haha, are you asking me to look for a needle in a haystack. 

[forestofclarity]

2 hours ago, jgd said:

 

 sadly yes. Rudi is really nice but the medical trips are several thousands of $

 

There is also a claim that this group teaches one to be a conduit rather than a generator, so very few ever develop the ability to emit qi independent of the teacher. 

[jgd]

10 minutes ago, forestofclarity said:

 

There is also a claim that this group teaches one to be a conduit rather than a generator, so very few ever develop the ability to emit qi independent of the teacher. 

 

I dont know if that's the case, but I would like to know if any student developed qi emission just by trainingg Rudi's method without doing medical trips/dantian activations

[Lairg]

Regularly pushing light from the heart into any dantian will nourish the dantian and it will spontaneously become more competent and active

 

Some martial arts practitioners I know, have difficulty accessing their heart light.

 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

23 hours ago, forestofclarity said:

 

Does any of this ever involve large amounts of cash for treatments, activation of dan tian, etc.? I remember the earlier qi emission craze on TDB, and it usually involved very large sums of cash at some point. 

There is not a large amount of cash needed for activation of dantian, just your time and effort to do proper practice 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

21 hours ago, forestofclarity said:

 

There is also a claim that this group teaches one to be a conduit rather than a generator, so very few ever develop the ability to emit qi independent of the teacher. 

And who is making this claim? 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

20 hours ago, jgd said:

 

I dont know if that's the case, but I would like to know if any student developed qi emission just by trainingg Rudi's method without doing medical trips/dantian activations

It is possible, it will just take a long time. I will let you know when it happens.

[jgd]

2 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

It is possible, it will just take a long time. I will let you know when it happens.

 

I think that it's very unlikely to happen. The reason is simple, if you spend a long time in a method, chances are you either end meeting the teacher/master (then receiving qi emission from him) or dropping the method.

 

It would be really strange for someone to spend years doing serious training without deciding to do a medical trip and/or having qi pills (yeah, it's expensive, but many years paying for training arent cheap either). Chances are any serious student of Rudi ends receiving a dantian activation, so I think that it's extremely difficult to know if the method works on its own

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

3 hours ago, jgd said:

 

I think that it's very unlikely to happen. The reason is simple, if you spend a long time in a method, chances are you either end meeting the teacher/master (then receiving qi emission from him) or dropping the method.

 

It would be really strange for someone to spend years doing serious training without deciding to do a medical trip and/or having qi pills (yeah, it's expensive, but many years paying for training arent cheap either). Chances are any serious student of Rudi ends receiving a dantian activation, so I think that it's extremely difficult to know if the method works on its own

Well I’ve never gone to meet him in person, and I’ve activated my dantian with the methods he’s taught. Many other students too.

[jgd]

44 minutes ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Well I’ve never gone to meet him in person, and I’ve activated my dantian with the methods he’s taught. Many other students too.

 

That could be case, but without meeting him how do you know it's activated and that it was because of that method? You practise several styles, couldnt the activation come from your previous experiences or parallel training?

[forestofclarity]

 

10 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

There is not a large amount of cash needed for activation of dantian, just your time and effort to do proper practice 

 

The cash was generally for medical treatments, healings, pills, opening energetic channels, introductions, seminars, etc. This has come up a number of times over the history of TDB. 

 

10 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

And who is making this claim? 

 

I've had many conversations over the years, it's just something that stuck in my mind. In the esoteric arts realm, I've discovered a lot of times there are layered approached to teaching, with key teachings often not being transmitted at all or only to a few select students. Sometimes false or modified teachings are given, etc, especially to the public or Westerners. 

 

5 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Well I’ve never gone to meet him in person, and I’ve activated my dantian with the methods he’s taught. Many other students too.

 

I remember that we had a whole discussion some years ago and the bottom line from Rudi was that if one couldn't emit electric qi and one's students couldn't emit electric qi, it didn't count.

 

 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

6 hours ago, jgd said:

 

That could be case, but without meeting him how do you know it's activated and that it was because of that method? You practise several styles, couldnt the activation come from your previous experiences or parallel training?

I don’t have previous experiences, I started with his method and Flying Phoenix Qigong which doesn’t focus on dantian activation at all. In fact it doesn’t follow the traditional qigong model but that is off topic here.

 

As for how to know you have an activated lower dantian that can store qi? The easiest way without a teacher is that it will show up on those new full body airport security scanners. The machine will beep and on the screen there will be an alert where the lower dantian is.

 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

1 hour ago, forestofclarity said:

The cash was generally for medical treatments, healings, pills, opening energetic channels, introductions, seminars, etc. This has come up a number of times over the history of TDB. 

Yes but no cash is needed for dantian activation specifically. In fact you could just pay for one seminar to learn the method and nothing else and you would be able to activate your dantian yourself with diligent practice and good health. It takes roughly 18 months for a healthy person to activate their dantian with these methods.

 

You could also go to see a master and they could activate it instantly, some charge for it, some do it for free, but the point is you don’t need to. You can do it yourself.

 

1 hour ago, forestofclarity said:

I've had many conversations over the years, it's just something that stuck in my mind. In the esoteric arts realm, I've discovered a lot of times there are layered approached to teaching, with key teachings often not being transmitted at all or only to a few select students. Sometimes false or modified teachings are given, etc, especially to the public or Westerners. 

Ok but that’s not answering the question that I asked relating to what you said:

 

“There is also a claim that this group teaches one to be a conduit rather than a generator, so very few ever develop the ability to emit qi independent of the teacher.”

 

Who is making this claim? It’s the first time I’ve heard of it, and it’s not true in any way. The whole point of the practice is to be a generator. It’s what we learn to do from the first day.

 

1 hour ago, forestofclarity said:

I remember that we had a whole discussion some years ago and the bottom line from Rudi was that if one couldn't emit electric qi and one's students couldn't emit electric qi, it didn't count.

 

 

 

How is this related? We are talking about dantian activation (or dantian “building”) not qi emission. 

[Sanity Check]

I wouldn't know a dalmatian from a dantian.

 

But even I would guess there are steps needed to improve dantian as a container of energy.

 

To enable energy stored inside to retain its purity & refined essence.

 

Anyone that knows basic science should be able to guess that much.

 

Whether you're refining energy, metals or even sand.

 

Leakage is undesirable.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

3 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

I wouldn't know a dalmatian from a dantian.

 

But even I would guess there are steps needed to improve dantian as a container of energy.

 

To enable energy stored inside to retain its purity & refined essence.

 

Anyone that knows basic science should be able to guess that much.

 

Whether you're refining energy, metals or even sand.

 

Leakage is undesirable.

If you don’t have an “activated” or “built” dantian, you can do all the cultivation you like but qi will not stay in your lower abdomen and will frequently rise.

 

It’s not a problem in the beginning stages of practice but after a while if you are accumulating a lot of qi without a place to store it, you will run into lots of health issues down the line.

Edited Sunday at 11:26 AM by -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-

[Tim the enchanter]

Isn't the idea of building a lower dantien (that didn't exist previously based on this model) a Damo Mitchell-ism? Don't know anything about what he's getting at so can't critique. Doesn't match my experience, but then I'm not a fan of the over-emphasis on the lower dantien that seems to have crept in to English language texts and schools so no doubt on different paths.

[Antares]

4 hours ago, Tim the enchanter said:

Isn't the idea of building a lower dantien (that didn't exist previously based on this model) a Damo Mitchell-ism? 

Why do you think there is Building The Foundation stage in Neidan? It is not DM' idea.

No foundation implies no ldt. Ordinary people never have had LDT but what they had is fullness of Ming at the age of 16 (men) and 14 (woman). This fullness does not imply LDT existence. Because it is not only Ming part is necessary for building LDT. Certain states of the heart - mind (Xin) and Innate Nature (Xing) are required for that as well. All that implies certain specific methods of cultivation. People have too much negative qi which corrupts Xin - Xing states and thus people do not have good enough conditions for LDT presence within themselves.

What can be activated is 8 extra-ordinary and 12 "medicine" channels which are blocked  

Edited Sunday at 05:27 PM by Antares

[Sahaja]

Thought this passage on the definition of Dan tian from the Encyclopedia of Taoism written by Fabrizio Pregadio might be helpful to this discussion..While in my own experience the map isn’t the territory, I think it is important to note that the Dan tian is part of the teachings included in the Daozang -official corpus of Taoism and it’s historical use in self cultivation/meditation is recorded in texts back to about to 200 C.E. Originally described as foci for meditation on the body gods (almost 2000 years ago) it later was incorporated into what became Neidan in the Tang and Song dynasties (1400 to 1000  years ago)
 

The dantian are three loci in the human body that play a major role in breath-

ing, meditation, and *neidan practices. Located in the regions of the abdo-

men, heart, and brain, but devoid of material counterparts, they establish a

tripartite division of inner space that corresponds to other threefold motives

in the Taoist pantheon and cosmology.

The three Fields. The lower Cinnabar Field is the dantian proper and is the seat

of essence (*jing). Different sources place it at 1.3, 2, 2.4, 3, or 3.6 inches (cun

寸) below or behind the navel, and consider it to be the same as, or closely

related to, other loci in the same region of the body: the Gate of the Vital

Force (*mingmen), the Origin of the Pass (guanyuan 關元), and the Ocean of

Pneuma (qihai 氣海). The lower dantian lies near the huiyin 會陰 (“gather-

ing of Yin”), at the meeting point of the Control Channel and the Function

Channel (*dumai and renmai; see fig. 31). In the first stage of the neidan process

(“refining essence into pneuma,” lianjing huaqi 鍊精化氣), circulating the es-

sence along these two channels generates the inner elixir.

The middle Cinnabar Field is at the center of the chest according to some

authors, or between the heart and the navel according to others. It is the seat of

pneuma (*qi) and is also called Yellow Court (huangting 黃庭), Crimson Palace

(jianggong 絳宮), or Mysterious Female (*xuanpin). Its central position in the

body also inspired the names Central Palace (zhonggong 中宮) and “One Opening

at the Center of the Person” (shenzhong yiqiao 身中一竅). In the second stage of

the neidan process (“refining pneuma into spirit,” lianqi huashen 鍊氣化神), the

elixir is moved from the lower to the middle dantian and is nourished there.

The upper Field is located in the region of the brain and is the seat of spirit

(*shen). Also known as Muddy Pellet (*niwan) or Palace of Qian 1 (qiangong

乾宮, with reference to the trigram representing Pure Yang), it is divided into

Nine Palaces (*jiugong) or nine chambers arranged in two rows. Niwan denotes

both the upper dantian as a whole and the innermost palace or chamber (the

third one in the lower row; see fig. 62). Moving the inner elixir to the upper

Field marks the third and last stage of the neidan process (“refining spirit and

reverting to Emptiness,” lianshen huanxu 鍊神還虛).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChiDragon]

On 9/10/2025 at 11:54 AM, Forestgreen said:

Can't say I relate it to my neidan practice more than as a support for foundational practices. 

I am curious how do you or anyone else practice neidan?