"may all beings be happy" context?

[Cobie]

 

11 minutes ago, old3bob said:

for ages such is or can be so but not at end the of the cosmic cycle...thus merger sooner or later in that sense

RC has no “cosmic cycle”, the ‘staying with’ is for all eternity. 

 

 

Edited August 8 by Cobie

[old3bob]

25 minutes ago, Cobie said:

RC has no “cosmic cycle”, the ‘staying with’ is for all eternity. 

 

 

although it has "in the Beginning", and if something has a  beginning then its safe to say that it also has an end.  

[BigSkyDiamond]

14 minutes ago, old3bob said:

although it has "in the Beginning", and if something has a  beginning then its safe to say that it also has an end.  

 

the physical universe yes has a beginning and an end. it is finite.

our union with the Divine has no beginning and no end.  it is eternal and infinite.

 

in the beginning God created.  the created has a beginning and an end.  

the Creator does not.  always was and always will be.  

 

Edited August 8 by BigSkyDiamond

[Cobie]

 

14 minutes ago, old3bob said:

although it has "in the Beginning", and if something has a  beginning then its safe to say that it also has an end.  

 

RC beliefs what has a beginning (e.g. my soul), can become eternal. 

 

 

Edited August 8 by Cobie

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

although it has "in the Beginning", and if something has a  beginning then its safe to say that it also has an end.  

 

The end is  ....   

 

" Forever and forever , Amen " . 

 

or, if you like  " and they lived happily forever after  ."  

 

  

 

 

 

I'd say this one is Cinderella ; we get a series a prophets  that gradually lead us  up to 'good fortune' .   Then the messiah comes  but they kill him    but wait  ..... he rises and ascends to heaven   - that's the pattern for us to follow  now .   Apparently its the most popular story line  and enthusiastically adopted by many . 

 

Everything eventually collapses into thermo nuclear   concentrated  flux , gets condensed to one singularity and then winks out  ?  

 

Kafka ?   

 

Hey !   We are trying to 'make all beings be happy' here . 

 

Spoiler

 

[Mark Foote]

6 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

 

  23 hours ago, Mark Foote said:

The metta chants I believe are a fairly recent addition to Thai Buddhist ceremony, 19th century [my highlighting]

 

 Huh … ? c. 2 millennia later?
 

 

 

That's my understanding.  Asked a nun who had spent much time in Thailand about it once, and she confirmed it (for what that's worth).
 

 

6 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

  Quote

The main sutta that is mentioned is from the 5th Nikaya, that is historically of later composition than the first four. 

 

dates?
 

 

 

On rereading, I find that the 5th Nikaya was collected at the same time as the others, at the First Rehearsal approximately 500 B.C.E.. One source I see online says it was during the first rainy season after Gautama's passing.

However--from A. K. Warder's "Indian Buddhism":

 

... Ksudraka Agama (outside the first four agamas there remained a number of texts regarded by all the schools as of inferior importance, either because they were compositions of followers of the Buddha and not the words of the Master himself, or because they were of doubtful authenticity, these were collected in this 'Minor Tradition').

 

... It has been suggested that some schools  did not have a Minor Tradition at all, though they still had some of the minor texts, incorporated in their Vinayas, hence the 'Four Agamas" are sometimes spoken of as representing the Sutra.

 

(published Motilal Barnarsidass, 2nd ed 1980, pp 202-203)

 

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

  Quote

Sort of like, John versus the synoptic gospels, John being a later composition …

John is more like 2 decennia later (synoptic gospels c. 70-85 AD, John c. 90-100 AD)

 

 

 

 

I see where Turbingen school dated it later, but what do I know!

 

 

[Cobie]

 

25 minutes ago, Mark Foote said:

That's my understanding.  Asked a nun who had spent much time in Thailand about it once, and she confirmed it (for what that's worth).
 

On rereading, I find that the 5th Nikaya was collected at the same time as the others, at the First Rehearsal approximately 500 B.C.E.

 

Thank you. 
 

 

[Keith108]

On 8/3/2025 at 9:21 AM, old3bob said:

 

Has anyone come across context for the big hearted Buddhist saying of, "may all beings be happy" ?  Taken literally or without context it would include all Beings including those that willfully choose and or practice evil? (and which makes them happy)

 

 

One can find the proper context here. There are five translations provided, two of which use the word "happy". One uses "at ease" in the place of happy, which in my opinion, is a much better translation. Happiness is fleeting, impermanent, conditioned, and is therefore dukkha. Although, I guess the same could be said for being "at ease". Regardless of the word or phrasing, the behind meaning is "May all beings be free of dukkha".

 

The Buddha only taught Dukkha, and the end Dukkha. And yes, for all beings, even the bad ones. 

 

Of course when, considering beings both bad and good, one should remember this, from chapter 3 of the Diamond Sutra:

Quote

The Buddha said to Subhuti: “The bodhisattvas and mahasattvas should thus subdue their thoughts: All the different types of sentient beings, whether they are born from eggs, from wombs, from moisture, or by transformation; whether or not they have form; whether they have thoughts or no thoughts, or have neither thought nor non-thought, I will liberate them by leading them to nirvana without residue. When immeasurable, countless, infinite numbers of sentient beings have been liberated, in reality, no sentient beings have been liberated. Why is this so? Subhuti, if bodhisattvas abide in the notions of a self, a person, a sentient being, or a life span, they are not bodhisattvas.

 

Emphasis mine, quote from here.

 

_/|\_

Keith

Edited August 9 by Keith108

[Cobie]

 

3 hours ago, Keith108 said:

... the behind meaning is "May all beings be free of dukkha".  The Buddha only taught Dukkha, and the end Dukkha. ...

 

Thank you for the informative link. And for the helpful explanation, I will adopt that as my interpretation. 

 

 

[Wu Ming Jen]

We should be able to cycle through all emotions effortlessly. When we hold on to one emotion that is damaging to us.

 

Knowing where emotions come from in the first place allows us to turn them into something beatifical instead of damaging.

 

If the ego or acquired spirit is in control it is nothing but heart ache even with happiness or kindness, Trying to be kind or happy is a quick slide down the other slope of the mountain. IMO

[Salvijus]

"may all beings find true happiness" 

 

You're wishing indirectly that others be free from ignorance. 

 

Edited Saturday at 03:16 PM by Salvijus

[old3bob]

7 hours ago, Keith108 said:

 

One can find the proper context here. There are five translations provided, two of which use the word "happy". One uses "at ease" in the place of happy, which in my opinion, is a much better translation. Happiness is fleeting, impermanent, conditioned, and is therefore dukkha. Although, I guess the same could be said for being "at ease". Regardless of the word or phrasing, the behind meaning is "May all beings be free of dukkha".

 

The Buddha only taught Dukkha, and the end Dukkha. And yes, for all beings, even the bad ones. 

 

Of course when, considering beings both bad and good, one should remember this, from chapter 3 of the Diamond Sutra:

 

Emphasis mine, quote from here.

 

_/|\_

Keith

 

depending on how far one wants to take it or turn it about suffering (which can also be the way that one takes forms of death) could also be said to be a delusion/illusion that goes poof before Buddha nature.  But then the double take or connotation would be that the Buddha taught delusion/illusion as if it was real and had to be ended.  Alas, more abstractions about this and that...

 

 

Edited Saturday at 06:08 PM by old3bob

[Cobie]

Some suffering I want to keep, e.g. mourning.

[BigSkyDiamond]

14 minutes ago, old3bob said:

Alas, more abstractions about this and that

 

it is an abstraction to the extent that it remains only "an idea."

when it is put into practice, it becomes a practice.

[Cobie]

 

23 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

the wisdom of the sages meets a person wherever they are at in life.

imo there sages often need to use ‘white lies’ for didactic purposes.  A bit like e.g. maths 101 saying parallel lines never meet; only later on comes non-Euclidean geometry.

 

 

[Mark Foote]

10 hours ago, Keith108 said:

 

One can find the proper context here. There are five translations provided, two of which use the word "happy". One uses "at ease" in the place of happy, which in my opinion, is a much better translation. Happiness is fleeting, impermanent, conditioned, and is therefore dukkha. Although, I guess the same could be said for being "at ease".
 

 

 

 The  Karanīya Metta Sutta comes from the Sutta Nipāta, which is found in the Khuddaka Nikāya--the 5th Nikaya.  According to A. K. Warder, some early Buddhist schools did not have a fifth Nikaya at all (although some of the texts were incorporated into the rules of the order in those schools).

 

On happiness:

 

I know that while my father, the Sakyan, was ploughing, and I was sitting in the cool shade of a rose-apple tree, aloof from pleasures of the senses, aloof from unskilled states of mind, I entered on the first meditation, which is accompanied by initial thought and discursive thought, is born of aloofness, and is rapturous and joyful, and while abiding therein, I thought: ‘Now could this be a way to awakening?’ Then, following on my mindfulness, Aggivissana, there was the consciousness: This is itself the Way to awakening. This occurred to me, Aggivissana: ‘Now, am I afraid of that happiness which is happiness apart from sense-pleasures, apart from unskilled states of mind?’ This occurred to me…: I am not afraid of that happiness which is happiness apart from sense-pleasures, apart from unskilled states of mind.’

 

(MN 36, tr. Pali Text Society [PTS] vol I p 301)

 

 

“…What do you think about this, reverend Jain: Is King Seniya Bimbisara of Magadha, without moving his body, without uttering a word, able to stay experiencing nothing but happiness for seven nights and days?”

 

“No, your reverence.”

 

“What do you think about this, reverend Jain: Is King Seniya Bimbisara of Magadha, without moving his body, without uttering a word, able to stay experiencing nothing but happiness for six nights and days, for five, for four, for three, for two nights and days, for one night and day?”

 

“No, your reverence.”

 

“But I, reverend Jain, am able, without moving my body, without uttering a word, to stay experiencing nothing but happiness for one night and day. I, reverend Jain, am able, without moving my body, without uttering a word, to stay experiencing nothing but happiness for two nights and days, for three, four, five, six, for seven nights and days.”

 

(MN 14, tr. PTS vol I pp 123-124)

 

 

Whatever happiness, whatever joy, Ananda, arises in consequence of these five strands of sense-pleasures, it is called happiness in sense-pleasures.

 

Whoever, Ananda, should speak thus: ‘This is the highest happiness and joy that creatures experience’—this I cannot allow on [their] part. What is the reason for this? There is, Ananda, another happiness more excellent and exquisite than that happiness. And what, Ananda, is this other happiness more excellent and exquisite than that happiness? Here, Ananda, a [person], aloof from pleasures of the senses, aloof from unskilled states of mind, enters and abides in the first meditation that is accompanied by initial thought and discursive thought, is born of aloofness and is rapturous and joyful. This, Ananda, is the other happiness that is more excellent and exquisite than that happiness.

 

Whoever, Ananda, should speak thus: ‘This [the first meditative state] is the highest happiness and joy that creatures experience’–this I cannot allow on [their] part. What is the reason for this? There is, Ananda, another happiness more excellent and exquisite than that happiness. And what, Ananda, is this other happiness more excellent and exquisite than that happiness? Here, Ananda, [an individual], by allaying initial and discursive thought, [their] mind inwardly tranquillised and fixed on one point, enters and abides in the second meditation which is devoid of initial and discursive thought, is born of concentration, and is rapturous and joyful. This, Ananda, is the other happiness that is more excellent and joyful than that happiness.

 

Whoever, Ananda, should speak thus… And what, Ananda, is this other happiness more excellent and exquisite than that happiness? Here, Ananda, [an individual], by the fading out of rapture, abides with equanimity, attentive and clearly conscious, and [they] experience in [their] person that happiness of which the [noble ones] say: ‘Joyful lives [the one] who has equanimity and is mindful’. And entering on the third meditation [they] abide in it. This, Ananda, is the other happiness that is more excellent and exquisite than that happiness.

 

Whoever, Ananda, should speak thus… And what, Ananda is the other happiness more excellent and exquisite than that happiness? Here, Ananda, [an individual], by getting rid of happiness and by getting rid of anguish, by the going down of [their] former pleasures and sorrows, enters and abides in the fourth meditation which has neither anguish nor happiness, and which is entirely purified by equanimity and mindfulness. This, Ananda, is the other happiness that is more excellent and exquisite than that happiness.

 

“Whoever, Ananda, should speak thus: ‘This [the fourth meditative state] is the highest happiness and joy that creatures experience’-this I cannot allow on [their] part. What is the reason for this? There is, Ananda, another happiness more excellent and exquisite than that happiness. And what, Ananda, is this other happiness more excellent and exquisite than that happiness? Here, Ananda, a [person], by wholly transcending perceptions of material shapes, by the going down of perceptions due to sensory impressions, by not attending to perceptions of difference, thinking: “Ether is unending’, enters and abides in the plane of infinite ether. This, Ananda, is the other happiness that is more excellent and exquisite than that happiness.

 

…[a person], by wholly transcending the plane of infinite ether and thinking: ‘Consciousness is unending’, enters and abides in the plane of infinite consciousness… …[a person], by wholly transcending the plane of infinite consciousness, and thinking: ‘There is no thing’. enters and abides in the plane of no-thing… …[a person]. by wholly transcending the plane of no-thing, enters and abides in the plane of neither-perception-nor-non-perception.

 

…[a person], by wholly transcending the plane of neither-perception-nor-non-perception. enters and abides in the stopping of perceiving and feeling. This, Ananda, is the other happiness that is more excellent and exquisite than that happiness.”

 

(MN 59, PTS vol II p 67)

 

 

… the situation occurs, Ananda, when wanderers belonging to other sects may speak thus: ‘The recluse (Gautama) speaks of the stopping of perceiving and feeling, and lays down that this belongs to happiness. Now what is this, now how is this?’ Ananda, wanderers belonging to other sects who speak thus should be spoken to thus: ‘Your reverences, (Gautama) does not lay down that it is only pleasant feeling that belongs to happiness; for, your reverences, the Tathagatha (the “Thus-Gone One”, the Buddha) lays down that whenever, wherever, whatever happiness is found it belongs to happiness.

 

(MN 59, tr. Pali Text Society vol II p 69)