when will human madness end?

[Sanity Check]

13 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

My life has not been too short to observe  a decline in society  and technology .

 

get real ..... yeah we got a lot of fancy tech .... but most of its plastic crap that if it breaks you throw it away and get another one !

 

So is that better or advanced ?  ... but but .... we didn't have 'gaming'  before  or  Facebook   !     

 

40 years back ... I break something important I need . I pull it apart and find the culprit .. take it to town and show the blacksmith ... "Yeah, I can make you one of those ... if you want to stick around I will do it now for you . "

 

I got a page full of examples if you are too young to realize how good it used to be . . 

 

 

You have observed a decline?

 

Human population

 

1950 - 2.5 billion people

2025 - 8 billion people

 

Over the last 75 years the world has become more polluted, crowded and unbalanced. The quality and nutritional value of food has declined. There are negatives which give an impression of society diminishing.

 

But there was a time when I realized suddenly my 7 year old nephew had a rough idea what bitcoin and dogecoin was in addition to knowing who Andrew Tate was. As well as other things I would never expect 7 year olds to know.

 

Thinking back to where I was at 7 years of age. Youth of today have an opportunity to leap frog me in so many ways.

 

There are a lot of smart and talented people everywhere doing things you'd never expect.

 

Prior to COVID we had the highest number of newly made millionaires / billionaires in history. Homicide and murder rates were at all time historical lows. There were indications we were doing well in terms of some statistics.

 

 

[zerostao]

There's a difference between information/data and knowledge.

I think knowledge implies an understanding. 

There is definitely an enormous increase in data, and it leaps into applications before reasonable knowledge of that data is understood. There is a race to push the data in the name of corporate profits. 

IMO caution was thrown to the wind too often.

 

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 12:57 PM by zerostao

[liminal_luke]

But denunciatory rhetoric is so much easier and cheaper than good works, and proves a popular temptation.  Yet is it far better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

 

-- William L. Watkinson

 

[Cobie]

 

3 hours ago, zerostao said:

There's a difference between information/data and knowledge...

 

智 (zhi4) the wrong type of ‘knowledge’ (agreeing with society will further your career)

知 (zhi1) the right type of knowledge (helps you to become one with the Dao)
 

 

Edited Friday at 04:10 PM by Cobie

[Cobie]

 

9 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

… decline?  Human population

1950 - 2.5 billion people

2025 - 8 billion people …

 

That’s what I call decline.  It’s a trap; easy to go forward, difficult to go back.

Like the eel traps that I helped my dad to set out as a kid.

 

 

Edited Friday at 09:28 PM by Cobie

[Cobie]

 

9 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

… my 7 year old nephew … knowing who Andrew Tate was. …

That’s not exactly what I see as being ‘one with the Dao’. You’re probably just kidding with us (with all of your posts). I’m going to save my “Sanity” by putting you on ignore. 

 

 

Edited Friday at 09:14 PM by Cobie

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

different forms of human knowledge have been increasing at breakneck speed but the wisdom to use it well has in many cases decreased!  And like a house of cards things will fall apart (an understatement) the further we get away from dharma... 

 

 

 

Ya know that statue  would not have been 'there'    'then'  

 

However it does give a great example of what you are claiming   :  

 

AI Overview

 

Yes, the Statue of Liberty has required and continues to require repairs due to various forms of deterioration. Specifically, the copper skin, iron armature, and the torch have been areas of concern. Additionally, the terreplein (the plaza at the base of the statue) needs repairs due to crumbling pavers and potential water damage. 

 

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

• Copper Skin:

  The copper skin, while largely intact, has suffered from corrosion and requires protective coatings. 

   
• Iron Armature:

  The iron structure supporting the copper skin has rusted and weakened, necessitating replacement with materials like copper-nickel alloy or stainless steel. 

   
• Torch:

  The torch has been particularly vulnerable to damage from acid rain and pollution, leading to its replacement. 

   
• Terreplein:

  The plaza at the base of the statue has deteriorated, causing tripping hazards and allowing water to leak inside, impacting the interior infrastructure. 

   
• Other Issues:

  The statue also faces challenges from fatigue of the steel skeleton, decay of fasteners, and the effects of acid rain and salty air. 

   

 

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

You have observed a decline?

 

Human population

 

1950 - 2.5 billion people

2025 - 8 billion people

 

No I have not . 

 

I HAVE observed though   a decline in what you were talking about previously  , to which I answered the above ; 

" our species advancing. Not only in terms of technology but also in terms of society. "

 

11 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

Over the last 75 years the world has become more polluted, crowded and unbalanced. The quality and nutritional value of food has declined. There are negatives which give an impression of society diminishing.

 

That's one example and the tip of the ice berg . There are many negatives which  indicate society is 'diminishing ' , since you have switched to this word , lets look at its meaning 

 

'cause to seem less impressive or valuable.' 

 

That is dependent on the observers value system ... in mine , its diminished . 

 

 

11 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

But there was a time when I realized suddenly my 7 year old nephew had a rough idea what bitcoin and dogecoin was in addition to knowing who Andrew Tate was. As well as other things I would never expect 7 year olds to know.

 

 

How fantastic ... a golden future awaits us then   .... oh for joy for joy ... a brand new world where 7 year olds know about Bitcoin !  

 

 

11 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

Thinking back to where I was at 7 years of age. Youth of today have an opportunity to leap frog me in so many ways.

 

When I was 7  we played with frogs in a pond .  Then we snuck under the railway tracks through a  drain tunnel and found a creek that eventually went down to a bay .   There was an old boatshed there and we climbed over the gate to get out on the wharf  to see if we could see any fish.   We could .  But then this old guy turned up  yelling at us and we couldn't run off as he  blocked our exist , he was the owner .   He realised we were just a couple of curious kids , we made friends ,  he let us use his wharf  and got some fishing gear out the shed  and showed us how to use it . he would tell us stories of how the mud used to be golden sand  and sea turtles would come in there and breed and the  end of the bay would be filled with  baby turtles swimming around in the  crystal clear water . 

 

he told us how before there no suburbs or streets or houses , just his place ....   'Old Fred '  ( Matson )  and he thought it might be nice to make it available for others pleasure as well ... so he made a garden  ; 

 

 

That's one of a hundred stories I could tell 

 

and to think I missed out on Bitcoin  !       

 

11 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

There are a lot of smart and talented people everywhere doing things you'd never expect.

 

That's true  ....  I didn't expect them to use phosphorous bombs on civilian settlements . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

Prior to COVID we had the highest number of newly made millionaires / billionaires in history. Homicide and murder rates were at all time historical lows. There were indications we were doing well in terms of some statistics.

 

 

 

 

Ah yes , the good ol' pre COVID days .   Statistics show the 60s and the 70s  had much less violent crimes and homicide ... ya know 'good citizens'  like you could walk down the streets of Good Ol USA and feel a lot safer !  

 

because there was much LESS murder and violence 

 

unless you were in Vietnam of course .  

 

You are either deliberately telling lies for some reason or are incredibly 'blinkered '  . 

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, zerostao said:

There's a difference between information/data and knowledge.

I think knowledge implies an understanding. 

 

Let's hope it does !   It should lead to understanding . And information plus understanding should lead to wisdom    ; the right  application of knowledge while understanding its results .

 

10 hours ago, zerostao said:

 

There is definitely an enormous increase in data, and it leaps into applications before reasonable knowledge of that data is understood. There is a race to push the data in the name of corporate profits. 

IMO caution was thrown to the wind too often. 

 

 

 IMO too . 

 

Eg.

It still won't be apparent for many years to come ..... some have become aware , its starting to rear its ugly head now , but its probably too late to address it  ....

 

  P L A S T I C  S 

 

A classic example of human 'ingenuity' and 'advance'   ; 

 

" Hey guys I just invented something that won't rust, won't degrade , will not shatter like glass or ceramic  , hard to break down ... etc etc . "

 

" That's cool !  What are you going to make out of it ?" 

 

" All sorts of disposable items !   cups, straws plates bags clothes ... you name it !  " 

 

- and there is the  human 'intelligence problem'  . 

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

But denunciatory rhetoric is so much easier and cheaper than good works, and proves a popular temptation.  Yet is it far better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

 

-- William L. Watkinson

 

 

 

 

[BigSkyDiamond]

9 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

But denunciatory rhetoric is so much easier and cheaper than good works, and proves a popular temptation.  Yet is it far better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

 

-- William L. Watkinson

 

 

Amen.

 

Edited Friday at 11:44 PM by BigSkyDiamond

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

 

That’s what I call decline.  It’s a trap; easy to go forward, difficult to go back.

Like the eel traps that I helped my dad to set out as a kid.

 

 

 

Its something I never understood .    This race to 'crowd up' everything . It even happened on the commune . In the old days when we went from illegal to legal , we had to apply for 'multiple occupancy tenancy ' at the local council authority . One thing we had to do was make a development plan and show how where and how many house sites we were going to develop .

 

Some members suggested crazy high numbers  that seemed ridiculous to me . Why not just build  blocks of flats  and cover the land with development ? obviously they didn't want that , it would defeat the whole purpose of the enterprise .  So they agreed with me that some type of limit  must be put in place .  Okay good , you agree on a limit .

 

Now, why not make that limit  a good limit that is healthy, sustainable , enjoyable  ... etc  .  That got them thinking . Fortunately many decades later  we still have pristine and natural land , animal reserves ,  river front riparian zone,  a home for rare and endangered native animals , a festival site , and  still have some house sites that have not been developed yet ! 

 

Why wanna cover everything with people ?   

 

 

 

A day at the beach ; 

 

 

                          

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

That’s not exactly what I see as being ‘one with the Dao’. You’re probably just kidding with us (with all of your posts). I’m going to save my “Sanity” by putting you on ignore. 

 

 

 

He very explicitly stated that he thinks the world has become more stupid since COVID and he is deliberately being stupid here to add to the  'stupid pool ' . 

 

I mean , that 'logic'  is stupid in itself      

 

Complains  about  coffee being too sweet     so .... 

 

 

 

 

[Sanity Check]

 

 

8 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

When I was 7  we played with frogs in a pond .  Then we snuck under the railway tracks through a  drain tunnel and found a creek that eventually went down to a bay .   There was an old boatshed there and we climbed over the gate to get out on the wharf  to see if we could see any fish.   We could .  But then this old guy turned up  yelling at us and we couldn't run off as he  blocked our exist , he was the owner .   He realised we were just a couple of curious kids , we made friends ,  he let us use his wharf  and got some fishing gear out the shed  and showed us how to use it . he would tell us stories of how the mud used to be golden sand  and sea turtles would come in there and breed and the  end of the bay would be filled with  baby turtles swimming around in the  crystal clear water . 

 

he told us how before there no suburbs or streets or houses , just his place ....   'Old Fred '  ( Matson )  and he thought it might be nice to make it available for others pleasure as well ... so he made a garden  ; 

 

 

That's one of a hundred stories I could tell 

 

and to think I missed out on Bitcoin  !       

 

 

Good story, bro.

 

When I was 7 there was a freshwater stream a few roads up the hill. There was a kid younger than me everyone called Dennis the menace smoking cannabis. Another kid told me if you burned the claw of a crawfish a certain way it would make a blue flame.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Ah yes , the good ol' pre COVID days .   Statistics show the 60s and the 70s  had much less violent crimes and homicide ... ya know 'good citizens'  like you could walk down the streets of Good Ol USA and feel a lot safer !  

 

because there was much LESS murder and violence 

 

unless you were in Vietnam of course .  

 

You are either deliberately telling lies for some reason or are incredibly 'blinkered '  . 

 

 

I don't know if there was less murder and violence in the 60s - 70s.

 

There may actually have been more murder & violence in that era although it was less publicized by the media.

 

Whatever the statistics people certainly did trust each other more and there was a greater sense of community, I would guess.

 

 

[Paradoxal]

On 7/4/2025 at 8:40 PM, Sanity Check said:

Prior to COVID we had the highest number of newly made millionaires / billionaires in history.

Wouldn't this instead be indicative of a decaying society? Like, people are literally dying to enable CEOs and their ilk to line their pockets.

It's bad enough that I consider anyone above a certain cut of wealth to be a mass murderer (due to their predatory tactics which result in millions of people dying due to a lack of food, shelter, or healthcare).

[zerostao]

 

https://youtu.be/irz-sAJtbEU?si=3BKXMcr03xGr-cI-

 

 

 

 

 

[BigSkyDiamond]

1 hour ago, zerostao said:

you tube indicates the video is:  altered or synthetic conent

 

[Nungali]

14 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

 

 

Good story, bro.

 

When I was 7 there was a freshwater stream a few roads up the hill. There was a kid younger than me everyone called Dennis the menace smoking cannabis. Another kid told me if you burned the claw of a crawfish a certain way it would make a blue flame.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know if there was less murder and violence in the 60s - 70s.

 

There may actually have been more murder & violence in that era although it was less publicized by the media.

 

Whatever the statistics people certainly did trust each other more and there was a greater sense of community, I would guess.

 

 

 

Well, you see ..... I didn't guess but looked up the statistical records   .  

 

Try it sometime  ... it might change what you post here . 

[Sanity Check]

48 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Well, you see ..... I didn't guess but looked up the statistical records   .  

 

Try it sometime  ... it might change what you post here . 

 

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/187592/death-rate-from-homicide-in-the-us-since-1950/

 

1960 was lower.

 

1970 higher though.

 

Economic conditions also play a big role in violence and crime. 

[Sanity Check]

7 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

Wouldn't this instead be indicative of a decaying society? Like, people are literally dying to enable CEOs and their ilk to line their pockets.

It's bad enough that I consider anyone above a certain cut of wealth to be a mass murderer (due to their predatory tactics which result in millions of people dying due to a lack of food, shelter, or healthcare).

 

 

My approach to topics like these has been to read thousands of news articles on finance, current events, science every year for 15+ years to learn the basics and avoid illiteracy.

 

Over the last 10 to 20 years I tried to inform people about some aspects of things like healthcare reform. And encourage them to care enough to get their facts straight before committing to things which might not be in their own best interest.

 

But what stood out the most is how determined everyone was to fight & die on a hill of their own convictions. It was never about science or facts.  It was all about living and dying on whatever random opinion a person happened to have at the time.

 

Its hard for me to be mad about CEOs engaging in predatory practices when the majority of people supported everything that made it possible. These negative trends didn't happen overnight but rather over the span of many decades. There were countless warning signs no one wanted to acknowledge until it was too late.

 

I don't know if CEOs are mass murderers. To me its more like a case of domestic abuse. Where the abused makes excuses claiming they "fell down the stairs" for decades to avoid acknowledging the real issues. 

 

15 years ago there was a story published in the news claiming CEOs identify non essential workers to fire. They add the fired workers paycheck to their own salary to give themselves a raise. Rinse and repeat. 15 years ago I was angry about this. I shared this story with many who wanted nothing more than to pretend it didn't happen. I shared a lot of things that needed addressing which were all ignored.

 

It felt like I was the only one that cared about anything and everyone else only wanted to live under a rock and see and hear no evil. 

 

After awhile I realized I had not given up or quit. But everyone else had somewhat given up and quit on themselves.

 

So its like ok people. Make your choices. I hope you make decisions you can be proud of. And that's about as good as things get.

 

 

Edited 15 hours ago by Sanity Check

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/187592/death-rate-from-homicide-in-the-us-since-1950/

 

1960 was lower.

 

1970 higher though.

 

Economic conditions also play a big role in violence and crime. 

 

Yes  60s 

 

now look at what you posted before about it . 

[old3bob]

On 7/4/2025 at 4:44 PM, Nungali said:

 

Its something I never understood .    This race to 'crowd up' everything . It even happened on the commune . In the old days when we went from illegal to legal , we had to apply for 'multiple occupancy tenancy ' at the local council authority . One thing we had to do was make a development plan and show how where and how many house sites we were going to develop .

 

Some members suggested crazy high numbers  that seemed ridiculous to me . Why not just build  blocks of flats  and cover the land with development ? obviously they didn't want that , it would defeat the whole purpose of the enterprise .  So they agreed with me that some type of limit  must be put in place .  Okay good , you agree on a limit .

 

Now, why not make that limit  a good limit that is healthy, sustainable , enjoyable  ... etc  .  That got them thinking . Fortunately many decades later  we still have pristine and natural land , animal reserves ,  river front riparian zone,  a home for rare and endangered native animals , a festival site , and  still have some house sites that have not been developed yet ! 

 

Why wanna cover everything with people ?   

 

A day at the beach ; 

                          

 

 

Your picture on the left reminds me of driving on southern California highways,  sometimes it's like bumper cars for real!  Btw, unleaded gas did cut down a lot on some types of pollution but then the number of vehicles and roads kept growing and growing!  Note below: part of that road is elevated on top of another road, don't know the location but I've been on ones like that in Texas where most everything is Big.

(just a random fact and not as big as Australia which is 10-11 times its size ;-)

Edited 7 hours ago by old3bob

[Sanity Check]

4 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Yes  60s 

 

now look at what you posted before about it . 

 

 

1960 - 5 homicides per 100,000 population

2014 - 5.1 homicides per 100,000

 

Minimal difference.

 

The only thing that changed is the media's reporting of crime.

[Master Logray]

On 7/4/2025 at 7:40 PM, Sanity Check said:

 

 

You have observed a decline?

 

Human population

 

1950 - 2.5 billion people

2025 - 8 billion people

 

Over the last 75 years the world has become more polluted, crowded and unbalanced. The quality and nutritional value of food has declined. There are negatives which give an impression of society diminishing.

 

But there was a time when I realized suddenly my 7 year old nephew had a rough idea what bitcoin and dogecoin was in addition to knowing who Andrew Tate was. As well as other things I would never expect 7 year olds to know.

 

Thinking back to where I was at 7 years of age. Youth of today have an opportunity to leap frog me in so many ways.

 

There are a lot of smart and talented people everywhere doing things you'd never expect.

 

Prior to COVID we had the highest number of newly made millionaires / billionaires in history. Homicide and murder rates were at all time historical lows. There were indications we were doing well in terms of some statistics.

 

 

 

I support this.   Back in the old days I don't know anything,  choosing a product, choosing a school,

choosing a subject, choosing a career, choosing a place to live - all these need a lot of information which were just not available.   Only the highly knowledgeable ones keep newspaper clippings.   And many didn't have access to newspaper at all.    Without information, there were no real opportunities.   Leap frogging was only possible by luck.