Eliminating desire

[Cadcam]

As a person begins to retract from wanting, one of the first things to go is lust. In order for this to subside, one must be free from the draw of beauty. When beauty dies, so too does the preference for it over things that are not beautiful to a person. This can lead in all sorts of directions.

 

For myself, I find that I am no longer compassionate,  I do not have the empathy I once did. It takes a lot for me to be moved by either beauty or suffering. I find that life plays out like a movie that I have no attachment to: I'm just viewing it and not moved by it. This liberation can lead to negative behavior.

[Keith108]

This is just my 2 cents.

 

A lack of compassion and empathy is a sign of directionless practice. It's a kind of practice sickness that, as the OP noted, can lead to negative behavior. 

 

This is actually something I struggle with personally sometimes. With just a wave of hand and "it's all samsara", it becomes easy to not give shit. After practice last night, while reciting the Four Great Vows, I noticed I paid a little more attention to it than usual. Not sure why. It's a good reminder for what and for whom we practice. 

 

Anyway, ymmv.

 

_/}\_

 

[Mark Foote]

9 hours ago, Cadcam said:

 

As a person begins to retract from wanting, one of the first things to go is lust. In order for this to subside, one must be free from the draw of beauty. When beauty dies, so too does the preference for it over things that are not beautiful to a person. This can lead in all sorts of directions.

 

For myself, I find that I am no longer compassionate,  I do not have the empathy I once did. It takes a lot for me to be moved by either beauty or suffering. I find that life plays out like a movie that I have no attachment to: I'm just viewing it and not moved by it. This liberation can lead to negative behavior.
 

 

 

 …I know not of any other single thing of such power to cause the arising of sensual lust, if not already arisen, or, if arisen, to cause its more-becoming and increase, as the feature of beauty (in things).

 

In (one) who pays not systematic attention to the feature of beauty, sensual lust, if not already arisen, arises: or, if already arisen, is liable to more-becoming and increase. …I know not of any other single thing of such power to prevent the arising of sensual lust, if not already arisen: or, if arisen, to cause its abandonment, as the feature of ugliness (in things). In (one) who gives systematic attention to the feature of ugliness (in things) sensual lust, if not already arisen, arises not: or, if arisen, it is abandoned.

 

(AN 1.11, 1.12, tr. Pali Text Society vol I pp 2-3)

 

On the other hand:

 

So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near Vesālī, at the Great Wood, in the hall with the peaked roof. Now at that time the Buddha spoke in many ways to the mendicants about the meditation on ugliness. He praised the meditation on ugliness and its development.

 

Then the Buddha said to the mendicants, “Mendicants, I wish to go on retreat for a fortnight. No-one should approach me, except for the one who brings my almsfood.”

 

“Yes, sir,” replied those mendicants. And no-one approached him, except for the one who brought the almsfood.

Then those mendicants thought, “The Buddha spoke in many ways about the meditation on ugliness. He praised the meditation on ugliness and its development.” They committed themselves to developing the many different facets of the meditation on ugliness. Becoming horrified, repelled, and disgusted with this body, they looked for a suicide weapon. Each day ten, twenty, or thirty mendicants committed suicide.

 

Then after a fortnight had passed, the Buddha came out of retreat and addressed Ānanda, “Ānanda, why does the mendicant Saṅgha seem so diminished?”

 

Ānanda told the Buddha all that had happened, and said, “Sir, please explain another way for the mendicant Saṅgha to get enlightened.”

 

“Well then, Ānanda, gather all the mendicants staying in the vicinity of Vesālī together in the assembly hall.”

“Yes, sir,” replied Ānanda. He did what the Buddha asked, went up to him, and said, “Sir, the mendicant Saṅgha has assembled. Please, sir, come at your convenience.”

 

Then the Buddha went to the assembly hall, sat down on the seat spread out, and addressed the mendicants:

 

“Mendicants, when this immersion due to mindfulness of breathing is developed and cultivated it’s peaceful and sublime, a deliciously pleasant meditation. And it disperses and settles unskillful qualities on the spot whenever they arise.

 

In the last month of summer, when the dust and dirt is stirred up, a large sudden storm disperses and settles it on the spot.

 

In the same way, when this immersion due to mindfulness of breathing is developed and cultivated it’s peaceful and sublime, a deliciously pleasant meditation. And it disperses and settles unskillful qualities on the spot whenever they arise. And how is it so developed and cultivated?

 

It’s when a mendicant—gone to a wilderness, or to the root of a tree, or to an empty hut—sits down cross-legged, sets their body straight, and establishes mindfulness in their presence.

(SN 54.9, tr. Sujato)
 

 

Gautama goes on to explain what he means by mindfulness, in the context above. I have summarized that mindfulness:

 

1) Relax the activity of the body, in inhalation and exhalation;

 

2) Find a feeling of ease and calm the senses connected with balance, in inhalation and exhalation;

 

3) Appreciate and detach from thought, in inhalation and exhalation;

 

4) Look to the free location of consciousness for the automatic activity of the body, in inhalation and exhalation.

 

(Applying the Pali Instructions, edited)

 

 

You might try that.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 10:39 PM by Mark Foote

[old3bob]

 

Btw, suicide is a form of murder...(unless under advanced incurable disease and one has settled their worldly affairs as best as possible) thus a great weight of dark karma...so I'd say that the monks that did so were overly impressionable,  misled or misinterpreting to the max!

 

Btw, #2 mental/spiritual apathy or indifference are not a virtues but a slippery slope that has nothing to do with Buddha nature or enlightenment!  (which is said to be the "Wonder of wonders" by the historic Buddha)

 

Edited 15 hours ago by old3bob

[old3bob]

 

 

I'd also say that the desire for freedom is also the desire for enlightenment and are not to be negated with forms of profound sounding nihilism.

 

[doc benway]

On 5/15/2025 at 8:49 AM, Cadcam said:

As a person begins to retract from wanting, one of the first things to go is lust. In order for this to subside, one must be free from the draw of beauty. When beauty dies, so too does the preference for it over things that are not beautiful to a person. This can lead in all sorts of directions.

 

For myself, I find that I am no longer compassionate,  I do not have the empathy I once did. It takes a lot for me to be moved by either beauty or suffering. I find that life plays out like a movie that I have no attachment to: I'm just viewing it and not moved by it. This liberation can lead to negative behavior.

 

I would question whether what you describe is liberation, at least in the Buddhist sense.

Liberation is the end of ignorance of our true nature.

Even a small taste of that true nature gives birth to empathy and compassion of an indescribable degree. 

[thelerner]

I've always thought Dharma speeches are the third 'leg' of practice.  They can be about any aspect of practice and life but many are about compassion.  Cultivation can easily, perhaps at times necessarily fall into isolation and selfishness.  Listening to a great teacher talk about compassion helps break us out of it.  

 

In Shamanic cultures when there is sickness the Shaman might tell the person a story.  In listening they improve.. at least their spirit does.  Tech makes it easy to collect great dharma speeches, to have them on hand just as we would pills in a medicine cabinet.  

 

Maybe one day I'll make some.  They'd begin- 'If this is emergency, call 911.  Otherwise, shut up and listen..'

[Sanity Check]

Its not about beauty or desire.

 

Rather standards.

 

Having witnessed enough smart and talented people piss away their own best assets.

 

Standards and expectations for fellow sheeple decline significantly.

 

[Tommy]

I am sorry. I am probably wrong in my assessment of the practice that leads to a wider understanding of the nature of our world. But, the practice is not to eliminate thought . Rather to disassociate the awareness from the thoughts. To stop from identifying with thoughts. That the four noble truths talks about the path to liberation from suffering. Not eliminating suffering. One isn't suppose to eliminate desire. Rather, it is to remove the attachment to desires and to not cling to the desire. This way, love and compassion remain viable.

 

The Buddha, even after his enlightenment, chose to teach the path to liberation from suffering to others. And to not harm living beings due to his compassion. So, if one's practice is leading one away from love and compassion then wisdom is lost. Again sorry for my narrow point of view.

 

Note: One shouldn't lose the appreciation for beauty.

Edited 1 hour ago by Tommy