Why am I not Enlightened?

[dwai]

 

[NaturaNaturans]

Its like women and cats, the more you chase, the more you push it away

[manitou]

As I see it, enlightenment only occurs after ego has been tamed.  All inner blockages and twists must be straightened out before clarity is found.  Ego stands in the way of clarity.  We'll always have it, but to tame it is the mission of a lifetime.

 

For those of us who have been on the path for a very long time, I think the human  mind is capable of (and destined to) become the god-mind.   The Intelligence dwells within our DNA and the DNA of all beings, human, vegetable, whatever.  We are born into this world into a path of conditioning.  It is only from removing the conditioning that the True can be found.  You will know it when you get there, there is nowhere else to go.

 

When I would ask myself, 'Why aren't I enlightened?', ego was asking the question.  At some point in my life, not to awfully long ago, the question was no longer there.  We kind of ease into it slowly.  And then, one day....

 

It's like when the Palestinian said 'Seek and ye shall find'.  I do believe he knew what he was talking about.  All I know, in my case, is that I had a potent Christian experience when I was about 12, and the love of 'whatever' has been in my heart since.  That experience was the catalyst for the seeking through many different ways of getting to the light.  It finally, finally happened.  But it didn't happen through the brain alone.  The brain will only get you halfway there, the readings, the masters, the rinpoches.  I was fortunate enough to have been an alcoholic in my younger years, and the 12 steps of recovery were my ego-smashers.  In Freemasonry, ascension through the 31 degrees to hopefully achieve the 32nd is the way it's done.  Hiram Abiff awaits you at the 32nd, and your ego is now a matter of choice for you.  Transcend or engage, it's up to you.

[Gerard]

4 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

Its like women and cats, the more you chase, the more you push it away

 
YOU ARE ALREADY ENLIGHTENED

AND THE REST OF HUMANITY

 

The question is TO FIND OUT HOW (the hard yakka).

 

 

[NaturaNaturans]

1 minute ago, Gerard said:

 
YOU ARE ALREADY ENLIGHTENED

AND THE REST OF HUMANITY

 

The question is TO FIND OUT HOW (the hard yakka).

 

 

I dont understand the last sentence

[NaturaNaturans]

 

3. GT saying 113: His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?" Jesus said, "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'Here it is' or 'There it is'. Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and people do not see it."

Luke 12:20-21: Once, Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, and he answered, "The kingdom of God is not coming with things that can be observed; nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'There it is!'. For in fact, the kingdom of God is among you.

5. GT saying 3: The Kingdom is inside you, and outside you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will realize it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

John 14:6-7: No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know my Father.

6. GT saying 50: If they say to you, "Where did you come from?" say to them, "We came from the light, the place where the light came into being by itself, and was revealed through their image. . . We are its children, the chosen of the living Father."

John 8: 12-13: Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but will have the light of life."

7. GT saying 70: That which you have will save you if you bring it forth from yourselves. That which you do not have within you will kill you if you do not have it within you.

John 1:9-13: [Jesus] is the true light, which enlightens everyone . . . To all who received him, he gave the power to become children of God, who were born, not of blood . . .but of God. 3. GT saying 113: His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?" Jesus said, "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'Here it is' or 'There it is'. Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and people do not see it."

[Gerard]

Hard yakka is Australian slang, it means hard work; in this case a lot of daily practice over many years following a strong method not some random Qigong.

[NaturaNaturans]

1 hour ago, Gerard said:

Hard yakka is Australian slang, it means hard work; in this case a lot of daily practice over many years following a strong method not some random Qigong.

Im curious if you would like to share some advice and practice? As an euro, this is quite foreign to me

[blue eyed snake]

17 hours ago, manitou said:

As I see it, enlightenment only occurs after ego has been tamed.  All inner blockages and twists must be straightened out before clarity is found.  Ego stands in the way of clarity.  We'll always have it, but to tame it is the mission of a lifetime.

 

For those of us who have been on the path for a very long time, I think the human  mind is capable of (and destined to) become the god-mind.   The Intelligence dwells within our DNA and the DNA of all beings, human, vegetable, whatever.  We are born into this world into a path of conditioning.  It is only from removing the conditioning that the True can be found.  You will know it when you get there, there is nowhere else to go.

 

When I would ask myself, 'Why aren't I enlightened?', ego was asking the question.  At some point in my life, not to awfully long ago, the question was no longer there.  We kind of ease into it slowly.  And then, one day....

 

It's like when the Palestinian said 'Seek and ye shall find'.  I do believe he knew what he was talking about.  All I know, in my case, is that I had a potent Christian experience when I was about 12, and the love of 'whatever' has been in my heart since.  That experience was the catalyst for the seeking through many different ways of getting to the light.  It finally, finally happened.  But it didn't happen through the brain alone.  The brain will only get you halfway there, the readings, the masters, the rinpoches.  I was fortunate enough to have been an alcoholic in my younger years, and the 12 steps of recovery were my ego-smashers.  In Freemasonry, ascension through the 31 degrees to hopefully achieve the 32nd is the way it's done.  Hiram Abiff awaits you at the 32nd, and your ego is now a matter of choice for you.  Transcend or engage, it's up to you.

 

 

[The Biggest Nobody]

The way I see it, no one knows the answers for you.

[Gerard]

16 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

Im curious if you would like to share some advice and practice? As an euro, this is quite foreign to me

I'm a euro too and it would be totally foreign to me hadn't I moved to Australia, where the movement of Wood and Fire are the dominant forces here (South and East).

 

I started Ba Gua Quan/Zhang in 2008 combined with a bit of seated and more moving meditation Vipassana based.
 

The sky is the limit let me tell you that. 
 

 

[johndoe2012]

From 'Eye of the storm' by Keith Dowman 

 

Quote

There is nothing to do! 'Nonaction' or 'undirected action' defines the nature, ethos and dynamic of the Great Perfection. The here-and-now is a field of immanent sameness, and any attempt to affect it or change it by any technique is counter-productive. Any engagement of effort diminishes it. Seeking it inhibits its discovery. Nonaction is the precept that defines the natural inclination, or lack of any inclination, of the nature of mind in order that the manifest dynamic of the field of reality is uncrystallized in gnosis.

 

[Mark Foote]

On 4/3/2024 at 8:03 AM, blue eyed snake said:

 

 

 

 

… free from the fervor of zest, (one) enters and abides in the third musing; (one) steeps and drenches and fills and suffuses this body with a zestless ease so that there is not one particle of the body that is not pervaded by this zestless ease. … just as in a pond of blue, white, and red water-lillies, the plants are born in water, grow in water, come not out of the water, but, sunk in the depths, find nourishment, and from tip to root are steeped, drenched, filled and suffused with cold water so that not a part of them is not pervaded by cold water; even so, (one) steeps (one’s) body in zestless ease.

 

(AN III 25-28, Pali Text Society Vol. III p 18-19, see also MN III 92-93, PTS p 132-134)

 

 

About Gautama’s analogy for the third state of concentration (white, red, and blue lotuses that never break the surface of a pond):  I believe Gautama’s analogy refers to the balance of the legs, arms, and head around the place of occurrence of consciousness.

The ox-herding picture of a flute-playing individual riding an ox similarly demonstrates the involvement of the limbs and the jaw with the weight and balance of the body, in the movement of breath.

 

 

Edited April 4 by Mark Foote

[manitou]

On 4/4/2024 at 1:40 AM, johndoe2012 said:

There is nothing to do! 'Nonaction' or 'undirected action' defines the nature, ethos and dynamic of the Great Perfection. The here-and-now is a field of immanent sameness, and any attempt to affect it or change it by any technique is counter-productive. Any engagement of effort diminishes it. Seeking it inhibits its discovery. Nonaction is the precept that defines the natural inclination, or lack of any inclination, of the nature of mind in order that the manifest dynamic of the field of reality is uncrystallized in gnosis.

 

 

There's another way to look at it too.   Non-action toward oncoming dynamics is the operative method, but also looking at it through the lens of time is helpful to me.

 

Science has discovered that time is not really linear.  It's really all here and now, only our limited brain band width is set up to experience everything sequentially, day after day.  If time is not really linear, this means that everything has already happened, but we are experiencing it in sequence.  For some reason, knowing that it's already happened, whatever it is, is pretty comforting.  It seems to replace anxiety about things in the future.  An inevitability of sorts.

 

Does anyone here ever wonder if 'god' and DNA are the very same thing?

 

 

[johndoe2012]

1 hour ago, manitou said:

 

 

There's another way to look at it too.   Non-action toward oncoming dynamics is the operative method, but also looking at it through the lens of time is helpful to me.

 

Science has discovered that time is not really linear.  It's really all here and now, only our limited brain band width is set up to experience everything sequentially, day after day.  If time is not really linear, this means that everything has already happened, but we are experiencing it in sequence.  For some reason, knowing that it's already happened, whatever it is, is pretty comforting.  It seems to replace anxiety about things in the future.  An inevitability of sorts.

 

Does anyone here ever wonder if 'god' and DNA are the very same thing?

 

 

 

If what you are saying is true, we could predict the future with 100% accuracy. 

 

Since we cannot do that, what you are saying must be false. 

 

Everything hasn't already happened. It just happens one event after another. 

 

https://sravastiabbey.org/karma-predestination/

 

[manitou]

6 minutes ago, johndoe2012 said:

 

If what you are saying is true, we could predict the future with 100% accuracy.

 

 

I don't think it means this.  Any more than we can recall the past with 100% accuracy.  If you're speaking of predicting the future, there is no future.  It is now.  We're watching it unfold now.  

 

This is what enlightenment offers.  You become infused with a greater essence; it seems that it is infused from elsewhere, but it isn't.  It's infused from the god-mind inside you.  We become the god-mind, there is the enlightenment.  There is no need to refer to websites any longer, your information is directly from the source.  The god-mind only needs to be open to the answers to receive them.

 

It does appear that time, our lives, are stretched out like a Slinky.  In reality, time and space are the very same thing, and time and space is how our god-mind expresses itself.  It's not really stretched out.  Both metaphysical reading (metaphysics = the true dynamics that are shared by all viable religions) and having a light understanding of  quantum physics, together, will explain the disparity between what appears to be true (slinky time and distant space), and the real Original Intent.,   The metaphysics are not found within a religious structure.)  We ARE time and space.

[stirling]

1 hour ago, johndoe2012 said:

If what you are saying is true, we could predict the future with 100% accuracy. 

 

Since we cannot do that, what you are saying must be false. 

 

Everything hasn't already happened. It just happens one event after another. 

 

https://sravastiabbey.org/karma-predestination/

 

Can you be present in any moment beside this one? Aren't the past both thoughts that you experience NOW? The present has always been the only real moment. 

 

Future and past, here and there, "self" and other, and all other constructs with story lines, here and there, or perceived centers of experiencing are inexpressibly non-dual. 

 

Quote

...all dharmas are marked by emptiness； they neither arise nor cease, are neither defiled nor pure, neither increase nor decrease.

 

Therefore, given emptiness, there is no form, no sensation, no perception, no formation, no consciousness; no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind; no sight, no sound, no smell, no taste, no touch, no object of mind; no realm of sight... no realm of mind consciousness. There is neither ignorance nor extinction of ignorance... neither old age and death, nor extinction of old age and death；no suffering, no cause, no cessation, no path；no knowledge and no attainment. - Heart Sutra, Buddha

 

All dualities, all karma, reincarnation, dependent origination.... ALL dharmas dissolve in the enlightened perspective - the difference between a relative teaching and a absolute teaching. It isn't an abstract intellectual idea, it is a lived, perceived, deeply understood reality. 

Edited April 7 by stirling

[Gerard]

The real question is not enlightenment but the ULTIMATE STATE you are in besides this physical experience of you here and now for the time being.

 

The Egg

 

Little good reading. 

[S:C]

1 hour ago, Gerard said:

 

The Egg

Lovely, amusing reading, thanks! 
 

@manitou, concerning 

Quote

Does anyone here ever wonder if 'god' and DNA are the very same thing?

Someone here did,

 
and someone else whose user name I’ve forgotten, but who had a similar way of writing as the one above. 
 

@stirling, what please is the concept of “all dharmas”, - isn’t there just one? Which definition or explanation can be given for this word concept?
 

[Taiji Rebel]

This book offers plenty of insight on the topic in question:

 

 

https://jackkornfield.com/after-the-ecstasy-the-laundry/

[stirling]

8 hours ago, S:C said:

@stirling, what please is the concept of “all dharmas”, - isn’t there just one? Which definition or explanation can be given for this word concept?

 

Hello S:C,

 

Quote

Dharma (/ˈdɑːrmə/;[7] Sanskrit: धर्म, romanized: Dharma, pronounced [dʱɐrmɐ] ⓘ) is a key concept with multiple meanings in the Indian religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism), among others.[8] Although no single-word translation exists for dharma in English (or other European languages),[9] the term is commonly understood as referring to behaviours that are in harmony with the "order and custom" that sustain life; "virtue", or "religious and moral duties".[10][11]

In Hinduism, dharma denotes behaviours that are considered to be in accord with Ṛta—the "order and custom" that makes life and universe possible.[note 1] This includes duties, rights, laws, conduct, virtues and "right way of living".[13] The concept is believed to have a transtemporal validity,[14] and is one of the four Puruṣārthas. In Buddhism, dharma (Pali: Dhamma) refers to "cosmic law and order",[12][15] as expressed by the teachings of the Buddha.[12][15] In Buddhist philosophy, dhamma/dharma is also the term for "phenomena".[16][note 2] Dharma in Jainism refers to the teachings of Tirthankara (Jina)[12] and the body of doctrine pertaining to the purification and moral transformation of humans. In Sikhism, dharma indicates the path of righteousness, proper religious practices, and performing one's own moral duties.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma#

 

In this case I mean:

 

• Practices (or teachings) that are in "harmony" or lead to harmony (enlightenment).

 

• ALL "phenomena" that appear in our experience which are themselves already in harmony (enlightened), and are actually teachings themselves. 

 

The "dharmakaya" is the term for the space in which all phenomena appear. It is also considered to be the "teaching body" of the Buddhas. These are the two facets of the word "dharma" I am speaking specifically about. 

[S:C]

41 minutes ago, stirling said:

In this case I mean:

 

• Practices (or teachings) that are in "harmony" or lead to harmony (enlightenment).

 

• ALL "phenomena" that appear in our experience which are themselves already in harmony (enlightened), and are actually teachings themselves. 

 

The "dharmakaya" is the term for the space in which all phenomena appear. It is also considered to be the "teaching body" of the Buddhas. These are the two facets of the word "dharma" I am speaking specifically about

Thank you for your explanation @stirling, I had read the article on wiki before, but it seems to have a very wide array of meanings and I was baffled at the plural. It’s clearer now!  

[dwai]

wrt Dharma, folks might find this of interest -

 

https://www.medhajournal.com/the-reason-for-being-svadharma/

[dwai]

On 4/7/2024 at 12:04 AM, Gerard said:

The real question is not enlightenment but the ULTIMATE STATE you are in besides this physical experience of you here and now for the time being.

 

The Egg

 

Little good reading. 

Spoiler

 

 

[Tommy]

I have read about this before. A story of the woman who thought she had lost her head. Everyone told her she has her head but she could not believe. Then she comes upon a person who knew the truth. He took a stick and hit her on the head. The woman, after suffering the hit on the head exclaimed how wonderful to have found her head. Sort of like, one does not achieve enlightenment because one is already enlightened. It is just a matter of getting hit on the head. Haha.

 

I have had the experience of meeting people who have had certain experiences. They were terrified that they were going crazy. But, after finding a teacher and learning more, they begin to understand the experiences were manifestations of dropping this self. The Buddha said something like there are 84 thousand ways to see Nirvana. Have heard that one monk got enlightened by being ask a question. Like a monk was reciting the Dharma to his fellow monks. There is no real self. Then the teacher hit him on the head. The monk began to get angry. The teacher asked that if there is no self then where does this anger come from. Then, the monk became enlightened.

 

There seems to be a theme of hitting on the head. Haha. But, we are not here to stop thoughts. Iron rod method of hitting the head to stop thoughts only causes concussions and maybe coma. Meditation seems to be an effort to focus attention to one pointedness. Thus to learn a different way to experience the present. But, this does not guarantee enlightenment. What does? IDK. This is why I ask why am I not enlightened?