Reflecting on TDB

[Apech]

[ChiDragon]

23 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Knowing suffering leads to less suffering

Knowing delusion leads to less delusion 

Knowing bitterness leads to less bitterness

 

These things will lead to enlightenment 

 

53 minutes ago, EFreethought said:

Discussing suffering leads to more suffering.

Discussing delusion leads to more delusion.

Discussing bitterness lead to more bitterness.

Yet discussing enlightenment seems to lead to less enlightenment.

 

Discussing or knowing things do not lead to enlightenment. IMO Enlightenment is something that was realized all the sudden by an instant thought. It is something had never seen or heard before but it just came into the picture and make someone dismiss all the suffering, delusion, and bitterness.

Edited December 26, 2023 by ChiDragon

[Maddie]

23 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

 

Discussing or knowing things do not lead to enlightenment. IMO Enlightenment is something that was realized all the sudden by an instant thought. It is something had never seen or heard before but it just came into the picture and make someone dismiss all the suffering, delusion, and bitterness.

 

The first two parts of the eight fold path as taught by the Buddha are "Right View" and "Right understanding". The eight fold path is what the Buddha said to do to become enlightened. A correct understanding is vital. 

[ChiDragon]

15 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

The first two parts of the eight fold path as taught by the Buddha are "Right View" and "Right understanding". The eight fold path is what the Buddha said to do to become enlightened. A correct understanding is vital. 

To be enlightened, one must go beyond all understandings besides understanding the trivial.

Edited December 26, 2023 by ChiDragon

[Maddie]

5 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

To be enlightened, one must go beyond all understandings besides understanding the trivial.

 

The Buddha said that enlightenment is realization of the four noble truths is what causes enlightenment. At least that is the Buddha's definition. 

[Cobie]

15 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

To be enlightened, one must go beyond all understandings besides understanding the trivial.

Yay, we agree! That’s exactly it! 
 

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

7 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Yay, we agree! That’s exactly it! 
 

 

Yes, there should be no written formula to be followed for enlightenment. Otherwise, there is no enlightenment.

[Cobie]

3 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Yes, there should be no written formula to be followed for enlightenment. Otherwise, there is no enlightenment.

Exactly. 
 

Those Westerners who regurgitate what the Buddha said, just swapped one belief system for another. That will not get you anywhere.  
 

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Cobie

[Maddie]

2 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Yes, there should be no written formula to be followed for enlightenment. Otherwise, there is no enlightenment.

 

How would people know what the heck they were doing, or that there even was an enlightenment to attain to?

Edited December 27, 2023 by Maddie

[ChiDragon]

30 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

How would people know what the heck there were doing, or that there even was an enlightenment to attain to?

个人智慧 和自悟自覺
By personal wisdom, self-awareness and self-intuition. One must have these qualities to be enlightened. Otherwise, by following somebody else words that will not lead you into enlightenment. It is not just 1 + 1 = 2. Now we know 1 + 1 = 2, then, where do we go from here?

Edited December 26, 2023 by ChiDragon

[Maddie]

4 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

个人智慧 和自悟自覺
By personal wisdom, self-awareness and self-intuition. One must have these qualities to be enlightened. Otherwise, by following somebody else words that will not will not lead you into enlightenment. It is not just 1 + 1 = 2. Now we know 1 + 1 = 2, then where do we go from here?

 

 

The Buddha said it is technically possible to figure it out by one's self (Pacceka Buddha) but very difficult and unlikely. 

[Cobie]

17 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

个人智慧 和自悟自覺
By personal wisdom, self-awareness and self-intuition. One must have these qualities to be enlightened. Otherwise, by following somebody else words that will not lead you into enlightenment. It is not just 1 + 1 = 2. Now we know 1 + 1 = 2, then, where do we go from here?

Exactly. It can only be found inside oneself.  

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

4 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

 

The Buddha said it is technically possible to figure it out by one's self (Pacceka Buddha) but very difficult and unlikely. 

Okay! I'll be wu wai(無為) about that and wait for the enlightened one to come ashore.

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Okay! I'll be wu wai(無為) about that and wait for the enlightened one to come ashore.

 

The teachings of a Buddha are already in our world though, but of course you can do what you wish :-). 

[Cobie]

2 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Okay! I'll be wu wai(無為) about that and wait for the enlightened one to come ashore.

yeah, you can wait till the cows come home.

[whocoulditbe?]

Imo there are recipes for enlightenment. You wouldn't imagine that the knowledge of a cake recipe alone can create a cake, but it does help. The line drawn between the method we are given and the materials we come with is ultimately imaginary.

[Maddie]

10 minutes ago, whocoulditbe? said:

Imo there are recipes for enlightenment. You wouldn't imagine that the knowledge of a cake recipe alone can create a cake, but it does help. The line drawn between the method we are given and the materials we come with is ultimately imaginary.

 

Exactly. Why try to reinvent the wheel when its already been done? 

[Nungali]

13 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

If it's not an insult, then, being delusional is neutral?  Harmless?

 

 

The one who is claiming others are delusional is asserting their own enlightenment? 

 

 

See, it's not neutral.  The assertion is:  "You are causing your own suffering"  That's an insult.

 

Are these children causing their own suffering.  Is their "craving" the lowest common problem which needs to be solved.  Is the aversion to their starvation a problem?

 

 

 

 

No they are not ... you missed the operative words in what Maddie said and twisted it to a general 'everyone' in order for you to score a debating point in the 'DSD'   - Daniel System of Debate .

 

note :       "You are causing your own suffering"  ... and that isnt an insult , its an observation .

 

But when in denial , daniel , people often see such observations as a personal  attack, or an insult .

[Cobie]

59 minutes ago, whocoulditbe? said:

… recipes for enlightenment …

 

Why think you need a recepy?

 

 

Why let someone tell you you are ‘ignorant’?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Cobie

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, Brad M said:

 

Yes.  I have seen drug addicts on the street.  I have worked with mentally unstable people.  While I have not met them, I have many questions about our world leaders.   Is a drug addict living on the street deluded? The addict is certainly not living up to his potential, but then again addiction is a terrible thing.   The addiction will crush him causing immense suffering, which only intensifies the addiction.  If he does not break the cycle, it will probably kill him.  Alternatively he might recover, and perhaps, as many people having overcome addiction, will gain great insight and perhaps some form of enlightenment from the process. Does my opinion of him being deluded, or not, matter in this process?

 

I would have liked this post except for this first bit .

 

In a debate or discussion or even a fun talk      .... its not really valid to suppose what someone meant wrongly with an example and then attack your own example to show how 'they' where wrong .

 

It might be valid if Maddie sees drug addicts as 'deluded' in your sense , as she understands deluded in her sense .

 

 

12 hours ago, Brad M said:

 

I cant however quite come up with a similar example for world leaders : )

 

Also, I was not trying to dispute anything you said, nor meaning too much by these posts other than having fun equivocating on the word delusional.  I think people object to the term--as it is most often used as a derogative--not necessarily the concept of the way you were meaning it. I'd also encourage people not to take offense so easily--takes just as much ego to take offense as it does giving it. 

 

 

< like >

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 

Why think you need a recepy?

 

 

Why let someone tell you you are (technical term coming up) ‘ignorant’?

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't cook much do you? lol

 

*recipe -10 points from Gryffindor.  

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

In my time on this forum there's been lots of petty squabbles so I guess this is an accurate sample of reflections on this forum LOL.

 

It has been,  except for the lack of  Apech's  bad jokes , poems and cutting sense of humour .... he has been far to quiet , sensible , absent , compassionate and reasonable lately !

 

Damn Buddhism ... look what its done to him !

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Maddie said:

I think the thing that has surprised me isn't that the topic has drifted from the original post, this is an internet forum after all, these things happen all the time. The thing that has surprised me the most is that a relatively straight forward and rational topic of something that is basically cause and effect has become so controversial on a forum that is dedicated to topic such as this. 

 

Daniel started that  !

 

 

 

 

he thinks Buddhism is dangerous or 'incorrect'  or something ....

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

If delusion is the condition of everybody, some sort of built-in condition for human, why would we need to be enlightened for this condition?  or even having this conversation.  It is just like we have 4 limbs, and everybody is content with it, until someone says it is possible to have 8 limbs, which is better.  Why creates a need from nowhere and this very action creates desire and in turn, sufferings?   Is it possible to deal with craving/aversion directly?

 

 

 

here is a different example to yours :

 

yes, we are all undeluded aren't we  ? 

 

,Posts pics off staving babies , napalmed children , Gaza, irreversible environmental destruction , and other emotive images  >

 

Everything is going just fine ... move along , nothing to see here .

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, Nungali said:

 

Daniel started that  !

 

 

 

 

he thinks Buddhism is dangerous or 'incorrect'  or something ....

 

I've been baffled today with the various negative responses to Buddhism. I've never had this much negativity to it in my life! I even had one person think that was I said about Buddhism was so outrageous that they no longer wish to speak to me. Pretty extreme but also weird lol. Today was weird.