Buddhist meditations for fear and pain.

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, Tom Beckett said:

I am relatively new to meditation so I was wondering if some of the things I feel from meditation are supposed to be there. My head has sort of hurts after these days that I have meditated more than I ever had before. Is this normal? Have I begun thinking at such a deeper level then normal about this world that my head has started to hurt a little bit.

 

Yes that can happen. If it does you should back off a bit.

[Tom Beckett]

Agreed, I’m taking rest from meditation for a bit.

[Maddie]

15 minutes ago, Tom Beckett said:

Agreed, I’m taking rest from meditation for a bit.

 

It's good that you're paying attention to your body because some advice that's out there which I believe to be poor advice is just to blaze through these things but meditation can actually have very adverse side effects for some people and you should definitely listen to your body.

[Tom Beckett]

True, as Lao tzu said those who rush ahead don’t get very far.

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, Tom Beckett said:

I am relatively new to meditation so I was wondering if some of the things I feel from meditation are supposed to be there. My head has sort of hurts after these days that I have meditated more than I ever had before. Is this normal? Have I begun thinking at such a deeper level then normal about this world that my head has started to hurt a little bit.

 

Meditation should be understood that requires deep breathing at the same time to prevent brain fatigue.

[stirling]

2 hours ago, Tom Beckett said:

I am relatively new to meditation so I was wondering if some of the things I feel from meditation are supposed to be there. My head has sort of hurts after these days that I have meditated more than I ever had before. Is this normal? Have I begun thinking at such a deeper level then normal about this world that my head has started to hurt a little bit.

 

How would you describe your meditation practice? What is it you do, and how often? I wouldn't expect it to make your head hurt.

[Tom Beckett]

6 minutes ago, stirling said:

 

How would you describe your meditation practice? What is it you do, and how often? I wouldn't expect it to make your head hurt.

I sit down in a comfortable and close my eyes before closing my eyes and trying to fully concentrate on the in and out movements of my breath. Sometimes I will do specific meditations with mantra singing in the back ground or in tonglen where I try to breathe in the sufferings of others and breathe out relief and peace.

[Lairg]

On each plane of Existence there may be at least two objectives for meditation:

 

- make whole (heal and complete) the human's energy body on that plane

- use that energy body to connect to a higher plane and thus to higher spiritual flows.

 

For example, the human having healed the emotional body finds it much easier to work with the heart body. 

 

On each of the lower planes the energy body may contain fear and pain.

 

For example, my physical body still is uneasy about waking up in a coffin and my emotional body remembers being bullied.

 

My mental body is still wary of those in authority.

 

As I refine my energy bodies (dropping dense substance from each) the fear and pain depart with those dense energies in which they are anchored

 

As the human progresses it starts to function as a conscious cell within a much greater being.

 

 

 

 

[stirling]

1 hour ago, Tom Beckett said:

I sit down in a comfortable and close my eyes before closing my eyes and trying to fully concentrate on the in and out movements of my breath. Sometimes I will do specific meditations with mantra singing in the back ground or in tonglen where I try to breathe in the sufferings of others and breathe out relief and peace.

 

You don't need to concentrate on your breath.... think of it more like noticing. Notice when there is a sensation on your upper lip, for example, when you inhale or exhale. Don't have make the thought "in" or "out" part of that, just pay gentle attention to the sensation. Let sensations be sensations. Keep your attention light - like maybe 10-15%.

 

Another meditation is to just try just being present as sensations come up. Watch your body and just notice as feelings in your body, or thoughts, come and go. Don't follow the things you notice with a thought process, just let what comes up continue unengaged by the mind, like you were sitting at the bottom of a lake and watching bubbles come into view and pass out of your line of sight. Again, keep it light - attention at about 10-15%. 

 

Before you start, sit in a comfortable but upright posture that doesn't really require the use of your muscles to maintain. Go through your body top to bottom sensing tense muscles and let that tension go, or adjust your posture so you don't need to rely on those muscles. It's good to keep your attention sharp, though not deeply concentrated, and your body relaxed. The expression on your face should be soft and relaxed too.

 

Meditations with techniques are usually activating, and often make us tense our muscles. I'd consider letting go of mantras or Tonglen (sending and receiving) practice until you can definitely do them without becoming tense. Once you can sit in relaxed but attentive meditation, bring them back into your routine. 

 

Do you study with a Rinpoche, or have you learned these practices on your own?

[stirling]

1 hour ago, Lairg said:

On each plane of Existence there may be at least two objectives for meditation:

 

- make whole (heal and complete) the human's energy body on that plane

- use that energy body to connect to a higher plane and thus to higher spiritual flows.

 

For example, the human having healed the emotional body finds it much easier to work with the heart body. 

 

On each of the lower planes the energy body may contain fear and pain.

 

For example, my physical body still is uneasy about waking up in a coffin and my emotional body remembers being bullied.

 

My mental body is still wary of those in authority.

 

As I refine my energy bodies (dropping dense substance from each) the fear and pain depart with those dense energies in which they are anchored

 

As the human progresses it starts to function as a conscious cell within a much greater being.

 

In Buddhism there is only ONE plane of existence in absolute terms. The realms of beings etc. are relative teachings. Ultimately, shamatha meditation (where the mind is quiet and empty ) is merely resting in the nature, or reality, of that plane and seeing that all other imagined or contrived states of mind, practices,  or other impermanent manifestations are only the play of that relative construct, NOT the base of it. "Wholeness" (or unity) isn't accomplished by actioning a list of practices or actions, it is merely complete presence in this moment  with nothing else needed, no "self" present, no future or past, or other place to imagine being or acting in. 

 

https://tricycle.org/beginners/buddhism/two-truths/

[Lairg]

My own view is that the mind is not the highest part of the human.

 

Perhaps there is an endless sequence of yet higher parts that can be unfolded by the former human and used in the achievement of the purposes for Existence.

 

 

 

 

[Taoist Texts]

5 hours ago, stirling said:

How would you describe your meditation practice? .. I wouldn't expect it to make your head hurt.

 

5 hours ago, Tom Beckett said:

I try to breathe in the sufferings of others

 

I would.

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Taoist Texts

[C T]

24 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

 

 

I would.

 

 

Then the tendency to mistake the finger for the moon becomes real. Common error. 

[Taoist Texts]

3 hours ago, C T said:

he tendency to mistake the finger for the moon ... Common error. 

there is a moon?

[C T]

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

there is a moon?

 

Compounding error. 

 

Such is life.

[Maddie]

4 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

there is a moon?

 

Amateurs mistake. Everyone knows it's a big ball of cheese. 😊🧀

[Maddie]

10 hours ago, Lairg said:

My own view is that the mind is not the highest part of the human.

 

Perhaps there is an endless sequence of yet higher parts that can be unfolded by the former human and used in the achievement of the purposes for Existence.

 

 

 

 

 

1. What's high?

2. What's mind?

3. What's human?

[Tom Beckett]

13 hours ago, stirling said:

 

You don't need to concentrate on your breath.... think of it more like noticing. Notice when there is a sensation on your upper lip, for example, when you inhale or exhale. Don't have make the thought "in" or "out" part of that, just pay gentle attention to the sensation. Let sensations be sensations. Keep your attention light - like maybe 10-15%.

 

Another meditation is to just try just being present as sensations come up. Watch your body and just notice as feelings in your body, or thoughts, come and go. Don't follow the things you notice with a thought process, just let what comes up continue unengaged by the mind, like you were sitting at the bottom of a lake and watching bubbles come into view and pass out of your line of sight. Again, keep it light - attention at about 10-15%. 

 

Before you start, sit in a comfortable but upright posture that doesn't really require the use of your muscles to maintain. Go through your body top to bottom sensing tense muscles and let that tension go, or adjust your posture so you don't need to rely on those muscles. It's good to keep your attention sharp, though not deeply concentrated, and your body relaxed. The expression on your face should be soft and relaxed too.

 

Meditations with techniques are usually activating, and often make us tense our muscles. I'd consider letting go of mantras or Tonglen (sending and receiving) practice until you can definitely do them without becoming tense. Once you can sit in relaxed but attentive meditation, bring them back into your routine. 

 

Do you study with a Rinpoche, or have you learned these practices on your own?

I don’t have any teacher as where I live there is little to no Buddhist influence or education. I study on my on researching or reading texts trying to piece things together.

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, Maddie said:

Everyone knows it's a big ball of cheese. 😊🧀

yes! and it is yummy and big enough pour tout le monde!

[Maddie]

53 minutes ago, Tom Beckett said:

I don’t have any teacher as where I live there is little to no Buddhist influence or education. I study on my on researching or reading texts trying to piece things together.

 

Sometimes it's better that way.

[stirling]

4 hours ago, Tom Beckett said:

I don’t have any teacher as where I live there is little to no Buddhist influence or education. I study on my on researching or reading texts trying to piece things together.

 

Tom,

 

You are welcome to message me with questions. I worked in the Tibetan Nyingma tradition for 25 years, and Zen for 6 years. I am currently finishing sewing my robes (a LONG part of the process!) in the Soto Zen tradition for my formal teacher entrustment ceremony. I would be happy to help. 

 

It's not bad to start with personal research, but there are some points that are worth clarifying as you go along. 

[Lairg]

8 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

1. What's high?

2. What's mind?

3. What's human?

 

1. Higher frequencies: solids, liquids, gases, plasma, 3 more etheric, 7 astral, 7 mental, 7 heart levels, etc

 

2. Mental substance is organized by elementals and the elementals are organized by lower and higher frequency devas/spirits.  Humans can use those spirits to perform logical and experiential activities using mental substance, including visualizing desired results.

 

3.  Earth humans carry genetics from many species - much of which is not normally used,  hence the idea of "junk DNA".  With a very wide genetic library Earth humans can be used to anchor and manifest cosmic energies.  Earth humans, having such cosmic usefulness are often the target of adverse intelligences that wish to interfere with their functions.

 

Technically, once the human has learned to control its physical, emotional, mental, heart and will energies, it usually transitions into the devic kingdom.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Lairg

[Maddie]

6 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

1. Higher frequencies: solids, liquids, gases, plasma, 3 more etheric, 7 astral, 7 mental, 7 heart levels, etc

 

2. Mental substance is organized by elementals and the elementals are organized by lower and higher frequency devas/spirits.  Humans can use those spirits to perform logical and experiential activities using mental substance, including visualizing desired results.

 

3.  Earth humans carry genetics from many species - much of which is not normally used,  hence the idea of "junk DNA".  With a very wide genetic library Earth humans can be used to anchor and manifest cosmic energies.  Earth humans, having such cosmic usefulness are often the target of adverse intelligences that wish to interfere with their functions.

 

Technically, once the human has learned to control its physical, emotional, mental, heart and will energies, it usually transitions into the devic kingdom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok interesting, interesting. What do you base this view upon? 🤔

[Lairg]

2 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

Ok interesting, interesting. What do you base this view upon? 🤔

 

I am active on the inner planes.  Most of what I post is from direct observation

 

 

[Mark Foote]

On 2/20/2023 at 4:37 PM, stirling said:

 

Before you start, sit in a comfortable but upright posture that doesn't really require the use of your muscles to maintain.

 

After you start, too.  I would say look to relax, and let the stretch of ligaments generate reciprocal muscular activity in the movement of breath.  That would be my advice, and note that the relaxation and the stretch can become quite specific, but not without calm in the experience of the senses, some detachment from thought, and some presence of mind:
 

Gautama the Buddha said that he returned to “that first characteristic of concentration in which I ever constantly abide” after he lectured, and that first characteristic is likely to be “one-pointedness of mind”...  “One-pointedness of mind” does seem like something one could strive to take into everyday life. However, although Gautama implied that he returned to “one-pointedness of mind” after he spoke, he nonetheless described the initial concentration as a state wherein thought is “applied and sustained”.

Thought “applied and sustained” is seldom mentioned in Buddhist teaching these days. Zen teachers mostly recommend that beginning meditators focus on the breath in or out, and they will sometimes advise counting the breaths as a method to calm the mind.  So far as I know, Zen teachers never recommend that thoughts be “applied and sustained”. Even the Theravadin Buddhist teachers of Southeast Asia, who follow the teachings of Gautama’s sermons more closely, don’t recommend “thought applied and sustained” to their students–instead, they emphasize something along the lines of the “bare attention” now taught in the West as the practice of mindfulness.

A central theme of Gautama’s teaching was the cessation of “determinate thought” (AN III 414) in action, meaning the cessation of the exercise of will or volition in action.  A cessation of the exercise of will could be attained, said Gautama, through the induction of various successive states of concentration. As to the initial induction of concentration, Gautama declared that “making self-surrender the object of thought, one lays hold of concentration, one lays hold of one-pointedness of mind”.

 

I begin with making the surrender of volition in activity related to the movement of breath the object of thought.  For me, that necessitates thought applied and sustained with regard to relaxation of the activity of the body, with regard to the exercise of calm in the stretch of ligaments, with regard to the detachment of mind, and with regard to the presence of mind.  I find that a presence of mind from one breath to the next can precipitate “one-pointedness of mind”, but laying hold of “one-pointedness of mind” requires a surrender of willful activity in the body much like falling asleep.

(Response to “Not the Wind, Not the Flag”)

Edited February 22, 2023 by Mark Foote