Is there an immortal being at the top of every lineage?

[Takingcharge]

Hello everybody,

 

Theres something ive been wondering about.

 

with qigong,do people tap  into a specific type of energy thats outthere in the universe? Often specific to the system, or developing a specific type of energy

 

or is there an immortal being at the very top of every lineage providing that the energy to its lineage? Whats the nature of it

 

or is this just sillyness

Edited October 19, 2022 by Takingcharge

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

2 hours ago, Takingcharge said:

Hello everybody,

 

Theres something ive been wondering about.

 

with qigong,do people tap  into a specific type of energy thats outthere in the universe? Often specific to the system, or developing a specific type of energy

 

or is there an immortal being at the very top of every lineage providing that the energy to its lineage? Whats the nature of it

 

or is this just sillyness

It depends on the lineage, for example in Flying Phoenix it is believed that a goddess revealed the system to the first practitioner. Some believe that it is Guan Yin.

 

Here is the origin story:

 

Quote

It was the second Moon of the 17th year of the Barbarian Manchurian's invasion forcing the Chinese Ming Emperor in 1644 to commit suicide. It was a cloudy morning. Fung Doe Duk walked the dirt pathway infront of his Temple that led the Emei Mountain. There was bamboo growth among the trees and bushes lining both sides of this path. As he walked, he could see the Sacred Monkeys leaping up their trees. He could hear the birds sing, and he could feel the warm mountain breeze. Butterflies were dancing among the brightly colored flowers. As the Monk climbed the dirt path he arrived at his favorite spot among the trees. As he sat down on his large boulder he could see the clouds reaching for the mountain peaks. The monk began his preparations for meditation. 
 

As the monk meditated, he felt a calmness spread throughout his body and suddenly he opened his eyes. As he stared into the clouds covering the mountain peaks he saw Heaven opening her door. The clouds parted and the Gods' Chairs of Gold and Silver were revealed. Suddenly, a Goddess sitting on her throne of gold floated towards this Monk. 
 

Fung Doe Duk dropped to his knees and prayed, demonstrating his faith to this goddess. The Goddess floated closer and closer as she glided towards him. Suddenly the Goddess' throne of gold vanished from beneath her and she stood in front of Fung Doe Duk. The Goddess was standing so close that he could see her feet in front of him. 
 

The Goddess told the Monk not to be afraid because she was sent there by the Emperor of Heaven to select him as her Mandate. He was to learn a group of meditations called the Fae Fung Sunn Gung meditations. He was told that this group of meditations would greatly benefit the health of mankind. She also told him that these are sacred meditations, and it was not for everybody. 
 

She told him that people that were evil, sinful, or dishonest would be rejected by the meditations, and they will not be benefited by them. However, if the person were good, the meditations would provide them with Mystical Heavenly self-healing positive energies so powerful that if he or she has a terminal illness the meditations will teach that person's body how to heal itself. If the person is good, the meditations would not only heal them and provide them with perfect health, but it would allow them to have such positive energy within them that they could lay their hands on and heal others. 
 

The Goddess explained to Fung Doe Duk that the human body is linked with the universe and every living thing on the Earth, including plants and animals and non-living things such as boulders, mountains, rocks, sand, and dirt. The clouds, skies, and the universe are linked to all of these things on Earth. Heaven provided us with the solution to perfect health and longevity within our universe, within the plants, animals, and minerals that we share on this Earth. 
 

The two fundamental terms in which the Chinese have understood the natural world are "Yin" and "Yang." Thinking in Yin/Yang terms means analyzing the universe into pairs of fluidly interacting opposites, such as shadows and bright, decaying and growing, moonlit and sunlit, cold and hot, earthly and heavenly, or female and male. Whether a thing is classified as Yin or Yang depends not on its intrinsic nature but on the role it plays in relation to other things. In relation to Heaven, man may be classified as Yin, but when paired with Earth, he would be seen as Yang. Heaven itself is the supreme embodiment of the Yang aspects of the cosmos; Earth is seen as deeply Yin. Men and women are not seen as exclusively Yang or Yin, each has only a predominance of one aspect or the other, and balance within them and between them may change. The relation of the two elements of a Yin Yang pair is not a static one, but is thought of as a continuous cycle in which each tends to become dominant and responsive in turn. This idea may ultimately have derived from the Heaven's experience of day and night, and the annual cycle of growth and decay. 
 

The Goddess continued to speak to the Monk, telling him that the more complex cycles of the meditations can be analyzed in terms of the Five Phases of wood, fire, earth, metal, and water. These have sometimes been referred to as "elements that control our body's internal organs and their functions."The five phases could also be used to analyze the cycles of the season, the cycle of our body's Chi energy. 

 

The Taoist Monk Fung Doe Duk's Flying Phoenix Heavenly Healing Meditations is supposed to be the key that unlocks the energy within our body and subconsciously activates our inner mind to generate and balance the positive energy within our own body. The result is an illness free body with healthy, balanced, positive energy that enables its practitioners to use that energy to heal others. The Goddess informed the Monk that the meditations were sacred Heavenly meditations and that he was to be very selective of whom he was to teach them. 
 

She reminded him that the meditations would reject those that are evil, sinful, or dishonest, and that only the pure would benefit from the mediations. Then,the Golden Chair reappeared under her, and she floated toward the Door in Heaven and as she entered, the door closed. According to Fung Doe Duk, he spent a day on the mountain, learning from and speaking with the Goddess, but when he returned to his Temple, he found out that 10 years had gone by.

 

Source: https://tibetan.tripod.com/ch-phoen.htm

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Pak_Satrio

[old3bob]

2 hours ago, Takingcharge said:

Hello everybody,

 

Theres something ive been wondering about.

 

with qigong,do people tap  into a specific type of energy thats outthere in the universe? Often specific to the system, or developing a specific type of energy

 

or is there an immortal being at the very top of every lineage providing that the energy to its lineage? Whats the nature of it

 

or is this just sillyness

 

since your question is in the general forum...from Hindu teachings Brahman (not Brahma the creator or a Brahmin) is the eternal force within all beings that is beyond any death,  thus the Brahman that is in a great god being is the same Brahman that is within human beings and all other beings.  (although not of equal manifestations)  Along this line we know that without food we might survive a month or more, without water maybe a week, without air around 4 minutes,  without certain prana maybe a few heartbeats, 

but and in comparison without Brahman an instant end. 

 

[Master Logray]

Immortals are transformed humans.  Normally the founders of a lineage has a high rate of success to become an Immortal.

[old3bob]

Also Taoists here could explain more about various types or levels of "immortals"... (per their lineages or schools)  but remember any being that identifies as a separate individual and not as eternal Brahman still has their days numbered, meaning such lives could be for hundreds to many thousands of earth years or even much longer if they evolve into an angel or god type of being, but even then the cosmic cycle or wheel still turns and only Brahman remains.   Btw. the historic Buddha mentioned to Ananda that he could have remained  for the remainder of the cosmic cycle but Ananda missed that import...(per Buddhist scripture) 

[Cobie]

7 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

… Men and women are not seen as exclusively Yang or Yin, each has only a predominance of one aspect or the other, and balance within them and between them may change. …

I like that. 

[Cobie]

 

 

15 hours ago, Cobie said:

quote
… Men and women are not seen as exclusively Yang or Yin, each has only a predominance of one aspect or the other, and balance within them and between them may change. …”

end quote

 

I like that. 

 

@Mango What’s your view on yin/yang in relation to male/female? 
 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Cobie

[Kojiro]

There is no immortal being behind any lineage, this is a fairy tale, can't you see this?

[Cobie]

1 hour ago, Kojiro said:

There is no immortal being behind any lineage, this is a fairy tale, can't you see this?

“Absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence.”

 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Cobie

[Takingcharge]

9 hours ago, Kojiro said:

There is no immortal being behind any lineage, this is a fairy tale, can't you see this?

Im not sure but i definitely cant be certain. But at least one person fairly high in a tradition told me there was somebody non corporeal at the head

 

but who knows, thats why i was asking peopkes take

[Mango]

10 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

 

 

@Mango What’s your view on yin/yang in relation to male/female? 
 

 

The description of yin/yang is at the nature level. The male/female is the counterpart at the human level.

[old3bob]

13 hours ago, Takingcharge said:

Im not sure but i definitely cant be certain. But at least one person fairly high in a tradition told me there was somebody non corporeal at the head

 

but who knows, thats why i was asking peopkes take

 

Right, nobody can prove certain things to another, thus we have to get certain proofs first hand although pointers from others can help.  

[Takingcharge]

On 19-10-2022 at 6:25 PM, old3bob said:

Also Taoists here could explain more about various types or levels of "immortals"... (per their lineages or schools)  but remember any being that identifies as a separate individual and not as eternal Brahman still has their days numbered, meaning such lives could be for hundreds to many thousands of earth years or even much longer if they evolve into an angel or god type of being, but even then the cosmic cycle or wheel still turns and only Brahman remains.   Btw. the historic Buddha mentioned to Ananda that he could have remained  for the remainder of the cosmic cycle but Ananda missed that import...(per Buddhist scripture) 

Yeah intried searching the forum fir this, not much came up

 

id be  interested to hear more on this

[Takingcharge]

On 21-10-2022 at 8:55 AM, old3bob said:

 

Right, nobody can prove certain things to another, thus we have to get certain proofs first hand although pointers from others can help.  

there must be a general   idea on this though?

around origins and wether its led by an immortal or  say some kind of deity or entity

[old3bob]

4 hours ago, Takingcharge said:

Yeah intried searching the forum fir this, not much came up

 

id be  interested to hear more on this

 

a short note along these lines that can be found on the web...

 

"Immortals are separated into Five Ranks, namely Human Immortals [ren xian人仙], Heavenly Immortals [tian xian天仙] Immortals, Spirit Immortals [shen xian神仙] , Earthly Immortals [di xian地仙] and Ghost Immortals [gui xian鬼仙]."

[old3bob]

4 hours ago, Takingcharge said:

there must be a general   idea on this though?

around origins and wether its led by an immortal or  say some kind of deity or entity

 

the general idea is found in most religions and mystical teachings

[MetaDao]

On 10/19/2022 at 12:25 PM, old3bob said:

Also Taoists here could explain more about various types or levels of "immortals"... (per their lineages or schools)  but remember any being that identifies as a separate individual and not as eternal Brahman still has their days numbered, meaning such lives could be for hundreds to many thousands of earth years or even much longer if they evolve into an angel or god type of being, but even then the cosmic cycle or wheel still turns and only Brahman remains.   Btw. the historic Buddha mentioned to Ananda that he could have remained  for the remainder of the cosmic cycle but Ananda missed that import...(per Buddhist scripture) 

Long story short. Yes, complete Daoist lineages have a spiritual immortal at the top, serving as a sort of broadcast signal for practitioners of the lineage to pick up on.
 

For a lineage to be complete, someone must have reached at least the Spiritual Immortal level in the lineage following the methods taught.

 

Then, there is transmission in complete lineages as well. This is pretty much what the post is referring to. As you practice within a lineage, you modify your radio to tap into the signal of the lineage. This signal is broadcast by the spiritual immortals at the top.

 

Brahma is viewed as the equivalent of Heavenly immmortal in Daoism.

 

Spiritual immortals survive until the end of the Life of Brahma carrying out Heaven’s mandate with free will but no mind, so I believe they are equivalent to Brahman as that’s what they identify with.

 

I am just guessing but I believe spiritual immortals simply move into the next life of Brahma when it ends if they don’t evolve to heavenly immortal level. Remember they have free will.

 

We are in Kali Yuga now. 

 

Hopefully that helps! Maybe I picked up a signal to write that 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by MetaDao

[old3bob]

"I am just guessing but I believe spiritual immortals simply move into the next life of Brahma when it ends if they don’t evolve to heavenly immortal level. Remember they have free will".  by MetaDao

 

There are some big differences on this point in Hinduism depending on which branch, major sect or sub-sect one belongs to.  (which btw seems incongruent to me for several reasons which I won't go into, yet the different sects if following foundational precepts of Hinduism respect each other and such differences)

Edited October 29, 2022 by old3bob

[MetaDao]

6 hours ago, old3bob said:

"I am just guessing but I believe spiritual immortals simply move into the next life of Brahma when it ends if they don’t evolve to heavenly immortal level. Remember they have free will".  by MetaDao

 

There are some big differences on this point in Hinduism depending on which branch, major sect or sub-sect one belongs to.  (which btw seems incongruent to me for several reasons which I won't go into, yet the different sects if following foundational precepts of Hinduism respect each other and such differences)

I wonder what are the differences?

 

In all true alchemical Daoist lineages, it’s understood that spiritual immortals are eternal, indestructible, and everlasting. They are no longer required to incarnate into the Earthly realm but can travel to any lower or higher realm.

 

So, when the entire Brahma cycle comes to an end, as I understand it, these spiritual immortals remain at the same spiritual level. It’s just the entire universe shifts and restarts. The environment shifts but the Shen Xians still remain at the same level.

 

Whenever a new universe begins, there is a spiritual Big Bang in which spiritual immortals are automatically created or brought into the universe to carry out tasks in line with Divine law.

 

I believe there is also a misunderstanding in which some think spiritual immortals don’t have contact with us on a human, earthly level. However, this is not the case. Shen Xian are infinite beings that can replicate. They can downgrade or separate a part of their being to the human level without losing anything. I don’t fully understand it. But, the soul of the spiritual immortal can be sent back down to the earthly realm to incarnate as a normal human without any recollection or memory that this has been done.

 

Yang Shen somehow downgrades itself back down and enters back into the human realm through the normal birth process to be a Yin Shen again. 

 

Even Earth Immortals do not fully understand the Spiritual Immortal level, as the gap gets larger and larger between the major milestones.
 

Earth immortals understand the secrets of Earthly realm. Spiritual immortals understand the secrets of the heavenly realm.

 

If you ever wonder whether immortals truly exist, they do. Lineages have spiritual immortals at the top doing their thing broadcasting and Earth immortals teach the newer generation.

 

My teacher told me in the last 100 years, around 70 people have attained the Earth Immortal achievement. When you consider that they cannot die of old age, then the numbers are still pretty good. They are out there.
 

Now, let’s say 50 of those 70 decide to teach and train students. Usually teachers only really take a limited number of students. Maybe around 5-10. It’s like having kids. You don’t want too many because you can’t give them all your attention. Then maybe 2 or 3 of those students can make it all the way to the masters level.

 

That would be 150 Earth immortals if 50 of the 70 had 3 students reach their level. So, as you can see, it’s very difficult to find a teacher because true masters are so rare and do not wish to be found by more than a few people. The lineages have continued to survive and immortals still appear, so things are still working as they should. This forum hopefully can direct people in the right directions. Much of it is up to your Ming.

 

That’s about all my knowledge on the topic, and I believe it answers the question so you can compare between Daoism and everything else

 

Also, there may be some inaccuracies as I am nowhere close to a spiritual immortal and do not have a complete understanding.

Edited October 29, 2022 by MetaDao