Iskote

What exactly is neidan/internal alchemy?

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, dwai said:

Maybe saint seraphim was simply stuck at a middling level. 

You could say the same for Jesus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

You could say the same for Jesus.

I do ;) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, dwai said:

I do ;) 

🙂

There are apparently Christians who are 'taken by god', in that they achieve the full light body. 

  • Wow 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, mcoolio said:

 

Holup holup! Dont understand sentence, but, weiqi != post heaven qi right?

 

What is the distinction about pre and post heaven qi anyway? Does small circulation work on preheaven qi?

 

I always thought pre-heaven and post-heaven was an odd choice of words and a little confusing. I prefer primordial and acquired, respectively. Primordial/pre-heaven (yuán qì 元氣) could be the incarnating force itself, or anything received from realms beyond the physical. Whereas acquired (?) qi is the energy gotten from food, air, light. That is one general way to see it but i'm sure there's an intricate continuum, especially when dealing with transmutation.

 

If I make a guess it's that the small wheel takes mostly acquired qi, and the greater circulation works in more yuan qi, or at least interfaces with it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, dwai said:

I do ;) 

 

1. Sorry for the mild derailing of the thread.

2. Sorry Dwai, I can't resist taking the bait 🙂

 

 

If Jesus is an example of someone who you agree is 'simply stuck at a middling level'.

 

Then you must, of course, be familiar with what it is / it consists of to be at either a low, middle, or even high level.

 

Care give some more details in regards to this 🙂🙂🙂

 

 

 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nintendao said:

 

I always thought pre-heaven and post-heaven was an odd choice of words and a little confusing. I prefer primordial and acquired, respectively. Primordial/pre-heaven (yuán qì 元氣) could be the incarnating force itself, or anything received from realms beyond the physical. Whereas acquired (?) qi is the energy gotten from food, air, light. That is one general way to see it but i'm sure there's an intricate continuum, especially when dealing with transmutation.

 

If I make a guess it's that the small wheel takes mostly acquired qi, and the greater circulation works in more yuan qi, or at least interfaces with it.

I believe there is a very good reason it is called pre-heaven. Before the creation of Heaven, these energies existed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Miffymog said:

🙂

There are apparently Christians who are 'taken by god', in that they achieve the full light body. 

Christianity has or had their own alchemical practices that created ‘saints’. Equivalent of spiritual immortal 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Miffymog said:

 

1. Sorry for the mild derailing of the thread.

2. Sorry Dwai, I can't resist taking the bait 🙂

 

 

If Jesus is an example of someone who you agree is 'simply stuck at a middling level'.

 

Then you must, of course, be familiar with what it is / it consists of to be at either a low, middle, or even high level.

 

Care give some more details in regards to this 🙂🙂🙂

 

 

 

Well, none of us can truly say as we weren’t there but it’s my belief that Jesus cultivated an extraordinarily strong heart field amongst other things that made him act the way he did and gain a large following.

 

No one is simply born a saint. You are made a Saint. Through cultivation. The true teachings of Christianity are shrouded and maybe lost.

 

In the end, he did not free his soul from the reincarnation cycle, which is why it’s a legend that Jesus will eventually return.

 

Though, one could say, he had one of the largest impacts any spiritual practitioner has had. I think there is something quite special about his path and something we can learn from it. There are many qualities of Christianity that I wish were in daoists.

 

Di Xian is middle level in Neidan. I believe Jesus was the Christian alchemical equivalent of this.

Edited by MetaDao
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, MetaDao said:

Well, none of us can truly say as we weren’t there but it’s my belief that Jesus cultivated an extraordinarily strong heart field amongst other things that made him act the way he did and gain a large following.

 

No one is simply born a saint. You are made a Saint. Through cultivation. The true teachings of Christianity are shrouded and maybe lost.

 

In the end, he did not free his soul from the reincarnation cycle, which is why it’s a legend that Jesus will eventually return.

 

Though, one could say, he had one of the largest impacts any spiritual practitioner has had. I think there is something quite special about his path and something we can learn from it. There are many qualities of Christianity that I wish were in daoists.

 

Di Xian is middle level in Neidan. I believe Jesus was the Christian alchemical equivalent of this.

 

Thank you.

 

It is interesting to see how he is perceived through different religions/philosophies/practices.

 

Rather than his spiritual attainment being judged through more traditional lenses, there is a possibly different way of judging him.

 

My own feeling is that he possibly saw his purpose as being like a finger pointing at the moon, he offered a path to access/approach god.

 

How well he achieved this aim is, of course, subjective.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Miffymog said:

 

1. Sorry for the mild derailing of the thread.

2. Sorry Dwai, I can't resist taking the bait 🙂

 

 

If Jesus is an example of someone who you agree is 'simply stuck at a middling level'.

 

Then you must, of course, be familiar with what it is / it consists of to be at either a low, middle, or even high level.

 

Care give some more details in regards to this 🙂🙂🙂

 

 

 

The proof is in the amount of suffering and pain inflicted by his followers on the rest of the world. Entire civilizations and cultures  razed to the ground, entire populations decimated in his name. 
 

Pick any eastern tradition and you’ll see examples of mature, wisdom based  ways of being. A mature system isn’t a cult of Personality. It isn’t dependent on a historical narrative to justify itself. Wisdom shines in its own light. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the topic of pre-heaven and post-heaven qi, they are not really separate things as I understand it. At one level, there is a continuum of flow happening between the universe (microcosm) and the individual (microcosm). It’s that double toroidal structure, the two vertices are above the crown and below the feet. We can call this the “transactional reality” (Heaven-Man-Earth). 
 

At another level, there is no separation between microcosm and microcosm at all, since all of it is appearing in consciousness. We can call this the “absolute reality” or “Dao”. 
 

The transactional reality appears in the absolute reality.

 

The alchemy is a matter of realization, not of attainment/creation/production. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, dwai said:

The proof is in the amount of suffering and pain inflicted by his followers on the rest of the world. Entire civilizations and cultures  razed to the ground, entire populations decimated in his name. 
 

Pick any eastern tradition and you’ll see examples of mature, wisdom based  ways of being. A mature system isn’t a cult of Personality. It isn’t dependent on a historical narrative to justify itself. Wisdom shines in its own light. 

 

 

I am sorry if you feel any one has suffered because of him, or because of his name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, dwai said:

… Pick any eastern tradition and you’ll see examples of mature, wisdom based  ways of being. …


Sarcasm alert. Yeah great stuff, about a thousand years of crippling women by destroying their feet. Yeah for such “wisdom”.  
 

 

Edited by Cobie
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Miffymog said:

 

I am sorry if you feel any one has suffered because of him, or because of his name.

It’s not a matter of feeling - history stands as testament to this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, dwai said:

It’s not a matter of feeling - history stands as testament to this. 

 

I am sorry people have suffered due to his name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Cobie said:


Sarcasm alert. Yeah great stuff, about a thousand years of crippling women by destroying their feet. Yeah for such enlightenment. Thank you great Tao.

Binding of feet was not a daoist thing - it was a cultural thing (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_binding).

 

As opposed to wiping out entire civilizations in the name of “spreading the good word”.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, dwai said:

Binding of feet was not a daoist thing - it was a cultural thing …


Read what you wrote:

(my bold)

14 hours ago, dwai said:

… Pick any eastern tradition and you’ll see examples of mature, wisdom based  ways of being. …


Think about it:

 

14 hours ago, Cobie said:

… about a thousand years of crippling women by destroying their feet. …


 

 

 

Edited by Cobie
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Cobie said:


Read what you wrote:

(my bold)


Think about it:

 

 

You should read a bit more about the Chinese historical context before lashing out defensively. :) 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, dwai said:

The proof is in the amount of suffering and pain inflicted by his followers on the rest of the world. Entire civilizations and cultures  razed to the ground, entire populations decimated in his name.

Are we responsible for the things people might do or say they do (via abuse of power through misinterpretation, falsification and manipulation?) in our name after being long dead?

 

Then doing nothing is probably the wisest, indeed.

 

edit: besides, there are theories that he might have had studied in asia (however far off they may be) and it seems to me he was familiar with ‘some’ wisdom tradition, but of course very subjective impressions indeed, and what do I know anyways… didn’t mean to derail the thread though, sorry, please carry on…

 

40 minutes ago, dwai said:

At another level, there is no separation between microcosm and microcosm at all, since all of it is appearing

 

Edited by schroedingerscat
Edit
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The laws work in mysterious ways.

 

I think Jesus could have executed his vision a bit better and left a more long lasting impression that was more beneficial to reality.

 

Imagine if the Bible was a book on spiritual growth and how to become someone like Jesus rather than what it is.

 

Not to say he wasn’t a great spiritual figure, but I think his wisdom could’ve had a different effect with the right execution.

Edited by MetaDao
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, dwai said:

Pick any eastern tradition and you’ll see examples of mature, wisdom based  ways of being. A mature system isn’t a cult of Personality. It isn’t dependent on a historical narrative to justify itself. Wisdom shines in its own light. 

 


I’m sorry but every religion, tradition, culture, nation or other group of human being has blood on their hands. No one is completely innocent. You seriously don’t think atrocities haven’t been committed on others by Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists or Confucians?

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, mcoolio said:

 

Holup holup! Dont understand sentence, but, weiqi != post heaven qi right?

 

What is the distinction about pre and post heaven qi anyway? Does small circulation work on preheaven qi?


I am making a tentative association between post heaven qi and weiqi, it ain’t necessarily so :) I saw a video where Damo was talking about people who made a big show of interacting with other peoples energy fields, and he was saying this was actually quite a low level achievement that looked much more spectacular than it was, I have looked for that video again but unfortunately can’t find it. But it demonstrates to me that there are different abilities that can be developed, this external qi is a thing, but it’s not valuable. Yuan jing/preheaven jing is valuable because it’s the basis of the jing-qi-shen transmutation, but yuan jing is only contained in the lower dantian, and doesn’t interact with another’s energy field only one’s own field, and it’s only used for one thing which is to make yuan qi, and it’s not a ‘realisation’, it’s an actual subtle energy substance. 

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:


I’m sorry but every religion, tradition, culture, nation or other group of human being has blood on their hands. No one is completely innocent. You seriously don’t think atrocities haven’t been committed on others by Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists or Confucians?

Not denying that, though the scale and magnitude of atrocities committed in the name of Jesus are only comparable to those by another rising from the same region. 
 

Kingdoms in the east  have fought wars, but never in the name of spreading religion. 

17 minutes ago, schroedingerscat said:

Are we responsible for the things people might do or say they do (via abuse of power through misinterpretation, falsification and manipulation?) in our name after being long dead?

Not saying Jesus is responsible. Just that what he taught seemed to fuel hundreds of years of religious violence. 

17 minutes ago, schroedingerscat said:

 

Then doing nothing is probably the wisest, indeed.

 

 

edit: besides, there are theories that he might have had studied in asia (however far off they may be) and it seems to me he was familiar with ‘some’ wisdom tradition, but of course very subjective impressions indeed, and what do I know anyways.

 

I don’t think there’s any veracity to that claim, though I’ve heard many theories of that nature though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to mention Jesus didn’t get to stay around and instruct his followers like the Buddha did, perhaps if he had been given a few more decades he could have created the structures around his belief systems that were instead created by Romans more or less. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, dwai said:

Not saying Jesus is responsible. Just that what he taught


in your opinion, can that be really separated? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites