spiritual traditions on fools

[stirling]

2 hours ago, manitou said:

A fool would be the same as the beginner's mind, no?  The beginner's mind is what is strived for.  A mind which has no pre--conclusions or as void of conditioning as possible. 

 

Glad you brought this up! You see how the fool is at both the beginning AND ending of the path! No path!:)

 

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Dementia is doing it for me on the natch, but I also wonder if worldly thoughts haven't taken a back seat to metaphysical thinking.

 

I have seen what dementia looks like with fear and duality around it. I get the feeling that you will greet it with mystery and curiosity instead. 

 

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The fact that someone comes to the conclusion that they have been a fool is a momentous event.  It means, for that moment at least, that arrogance has been conquered, true humility is within reach.  I applaud you, @Indiken, for your courage and your willingness to share your evolution here with us.  You're a real quick study, aren't you?  

 

 

I agree! The world is always in need of more humility and sincerity. 

[stirling]

1 hour ago, Indiken said:

 

thank you,

 

the community is very helpful,

 

i am really sorry,

 

should i write this?

 

there is a possibility, that i work not from a daoist viewpoint,

 

the thread was,

 

to attract people who want to humiliate me,

 

and exercise my abilities to lie,

 

in other words,

 

i did want to manipulate people here,

 

Humility. Excellent. You are suspicious of the world, so it appears to be a place you need to be suspicious. What would happen if you believed it was loving instead?

[stirling]

7 hours ago, Limahong said:

But an ordained fool leaves behind...

 

Please - I only want friends here. My deepest apologies if I have insulted you in some way. 

 

Deep bows, to you.

[Limahong]

4 minutes ago, stirling said:

My deepest apologies if I have insulted you in some way.

 

Hi stirling,

 

You have not offended me at all ~ no way.

 

This depicts 'pathlessness' (to me)...

 

 

... directionless ~ no East & no West.

 

12 minutes ago, stirling said:

Deep bows, to you.

 

Can I return with some buttons?

 

 

 

- Anand

 

 

[forestofemptiness]

On 4/21/2021 at 10:43 AM, Indiken said:

 

hey, forest,

could you explain?

 

From a spiritual perspective, I think there are some major "foolish" stages some of us often pass through:

 

1. Not having a teacher. Most of us start out here in the West/modern world. We can be very "do-it-yourself." 

 

2. Having a bad teacher. Having bad teachers is a source of wisdom, and having bad teachers help you to realize what to look for in a good teacher. 

 

3. Having a good teacher but not following the directions. Like dying of thirst next to a pure lake. 

 

4. Having a good teacher, following the directions, but not trusting that the fruition will come.  

 

 

[stirling]

8 minutes ago, Limahong said:

 

 

This depicts 'pathlessness' (to me)...

 

 

... directionless ~ no East & no West.

 

 

 

I believe we have an accord!

[Limahong]

2 minutes ago, stirling said:

I believe we have an accord! 

 

But of course! 

 

Good night ~ it is now night for me in the East. I will put my head on the pillow and have foolish dreams. 

 

 

[Indiken]

9 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

 

From a spiritual perspective, I think there are some major "foolish" stages some of us often pass through:

 

1. Not having a teacher. Most of us start out here in the West/modern world. We can be very "do-it-yourself." 

 

2. Having a bad teacher. Having bad teachers is a source of wisdom, and having bad teachers help you to realize what to look for in a good teacher. 

 

3. Having a good teacher but not following the directions. Like dying of thirst next to a pure lake. 

 

4. Having a good teacher, following the directions, but not trusting that the fruition will come.  

 

 

 

thank you,

 

i was contacted by some persons here,

 

but i hesitate to become a formal student,

 

i feel that i can handle myself "spiritually", whatever this means,

 

i lack technical understanding how to manipulate energy, still,

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Indiken

[Indiken]

10 hours ago, stirling said:

 

Humility. Excellent. You are suspicious of the world, so it appears to be a place you need to be suspicious. What would happen if you believed it was loving instead?

 

i do not know how to answer,

 

i do bow to you,

Edited April 23, 2021 by Indiken

[Limahong]

12 hours ago, stirling said:

You are suspicious of the world, so it appears to be a place you need to be suspicious. What would happen if you believed it was loving instead?

 

1 hour ago, Indiken said:

i do not know how to answer,

 

Hi stirling and Indiken,

 

May I take the liberty to add my two cents worth?

 

If I appear at a place re an experiential purpose without malice aforethought ~ I will just let my energy flows forward... come what may.

 

If I am received with a bouquet ~ wow... what a place!

 

But if brickbats are thrown at me ~ I WILL resist the temptation to reciprocate and let Nature absorbs the untoward.

 

 

 

- Anand

 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Limahong
Enhancement

[manitou]

12 hours ago, Indiken said:

 

i lack technical understanding how to manipulate energy, still,

 

 

I don't know how to manipulate energy either; like bending spoons.  I've not sought that path.

 

Working with energy means something different to me now.  Wei wu wei is a way of handling energy by not-handling.  The universe steps in and makes everything just perfect.  All we have to know is when to ride it and the appropriate dynamic to use it on.

 

The one thing I would suggest for someone like yourself, who has obviously spent a lot of time thinking and studying these things, the only thing that awaits you is going in to yourself, as mentioned before.  It's not that hard.  Any time you see your ego kicking up in an argument (which you indicated happens often on forums), stop.....look at your part in the altercation.  Look what you are protecting that is so dear to you.  Look at any young memories that pop into your head around the time of the argument.  If you can do that, you can see where the snowball started rolling.  There are buttons which we develop which people can push, and we respond every time.  This is not freedom.  It's having to react in a certain way; you have no choice.

 

When you've seen why you are protective, or aggressive - this awareness will go a long way to correcting the tendency to react in anger (assuming you want to do anything about it).  It sounds like you do.  What you want, is to be totally free in your reactions, your actions.  If you're pre-disposed to having your buttons pushed and haven't done anything to remove them, this will keep happening for the rest of your life and you won't be able to go that last step.  If we are rebellious (still rebelling from things back when we were kids) then we are only operating at 50% capacity.  If someone tells you to turn left, you will always want to turn right.  That eliminates 50% of the potential reactions you could have.  The buttons really need to be filed down, removed, for both clarity and the enlightenment you seek.

 

It says in the DDJ how much people like the side paths, which can be a distraction.  Like bending spoons.  It is awesome to develop abilities that are a little woo-woo, but they can deter you from the real prize.  Ego gets involved and sometimes people remain right there, stuck, until they realize the necessity of the inner work.

 

So glad you're here, Indiken.

 

 

[Limahong]

On 4/23/2021 at 1:35 AM, liminal_luke said:

I suspect you won´t find many people here who want to humiliate you.  That may or may not be what you´re used to, but it´s probably for the best.

 

Hi Jesse,

 

Credits and thanks to whoever/whatever/... it appears that TDB is turning around from EGO to ECO.

 

Are periods of the Wild Wild West (in particular 20 Jan 2017 - 20 Jan 2021) ~ turning green too?

 

 

 

 

A great weekend.

 

- Anand

 

[manitou]

Beautiful music, Limmers.  I kept waiting for Clint Eastwood. 

 

Oh.  I'll bet he was the whistler

[manitou]

On 4/22/2021 at 9:39 AM, Indiken said:

to attract people who want to humiliate me,

 

 

 

This is the memory I was talking about.  See if there isn't some early childhood memory where you were humiliated by someone, probably in the family.  If you can identify it, you can reverse it; and by doing so you will change the dynamic.

[Limahong]

3 hours ago, manitou said:

I kept waiting for Clint Eastwood.

 

 

Here you are...

 

 

 

[Limahong]

3 hours ago, manitou said:

This is the memory I was talking about.  See if there isn't some early childhood memory where you were humiliated by someone, probably in the family.  If you can identify it, you can reverse it; and by doing so you will change the dynamic.

 

 

The dynamic of moving forward a free(d) person ~

hopefully cultivating compassion in the process.

 

 

 

[forestofemptiness]

On 4/22/2021 at 10:51 PM, Indiken said:

 

thank you,

 

i was contacted by some persons here,

 

but i hesitate to become a formal student,

 

i feel that i can handle myself "spiritually", whatever this means,

 

i lack technical understanding how to manipulate energy, still,

 

Usually, one of two things happen when people teach themselves energy work: nothing or they often mess themselves up. This stuff is pretty serious.

 

[Indiken]

thank you for all the people in this community,

 

i did clear myself very much,

 

from contemplation, i do realize that i have conflicting desires,

 

for example, 

 

i want to write in the forum, but think that this is waste of time,

 

i was searching inside myself how to change the attitude,

 

and did found, that to change the attitude one has to change the premises, on which the attitude is based,

 

for example, 

 

the premise that to write in the forum is interfering with my meditation practice,

 

change to "i do not know the way to tap into energy, how can i know what interfere with the goal?"

 

so i think i have to throw away one thing, to remove the conflicting of desires, which tear me apart.

[Indiken]

hey friends, can you help me?

 

i want to get rid the feeling of "superiority" over other people from myself,

 

i contemplate, but i do not find logical premises to this,

 

some people to me seem like children,

 

i find it amusing to read that they cultivate various schools, have many teachers and read lot of the books,

 

i need to use willpower to read these things,

 

you will probably call this "ego",

 

but how to remove this ego?

[Apech]

2 hours ago, Indiken said:

hey friends, can you help me?

 

i want to get rid the feeling of "superiority" over other people from myself,

 

i contemplate, but i do not find logical premises to this,

 

some people to me seem like children,

 

i find it amusing to read that they cultivate various schools, have many teachers and read lot of the books,

 

i need to use willpower to read these things,

 

you will probably call this "ego",

 

but how to remove this ego?

 

 

You have what you have, you see what you see.  All people are not the same and some are childish, some are mature and wise.  To discriminate between them is not a fault.  You cannot get rid of awareness.

 

If you were to remove your ego ... then you would become the 'great-one-who-removed-their-ego' ... which would be hard to get over.

 

It's better to try to understand what the ego actually is, what is the nature of your being ... and submit yourself to life as a learning process which will quickly strip away any conceit you may have if you devote yourself to the path.

 

 

 

 

[Indiken]

thank you Apech,

 

can you define what ego is?

[dwai]

6 hours ago, Indiken said:

but how to remove this ego?

Find out who recognizes this ego and the ego will disappear 

[Indiken]

2 hours ago, dwai said:

Find out who recognizes this ego and the ego will disappear 

 

thank you, dwai,

 

i do not understand,

 

can you expand the term "find" with more detail?

 

to find something online, one opens browser, then go to google, then type keyword and so on...

 

to find a bug in application, i go to error code line and print the algorithm variables to console and so on...

 

in addition,

 

what is ego to you?

Edited April 26, 2021 by Indiken

[dwai]

5 minutes ago, Indiken said:

 

thank you, dwai,

 

i do not understand,

 

can you expand the term "find" with more detail?

Look within to identify who/what is aware of this ego. 

 

[Indiken]

57 minutes ago, dwai said:

Look within to identify who/what is aware of this ego. 

 

 

i am thinking,

 

do a human being is "one-whole" or is he a system of some sort?

 

for example, 

 

people say "computer", but i reality, computer is a system of parts and those parts are system of smaller parts and so on... to infinity.

 

is there a human or person at all?

 

edit 1: i mean, who is now writing? is it me? am i the consciousness or the personality?

 

edit 2: does observer observes himself?

 

what a silly question...

Edited April 26, 2021 by Indiken