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I found an online I ching   ..........   you just enter a question and throw virtual coins in thier program  and in calculates and gives you a result .....  to use it  or its harmful ?  

I never used I-ching  and i know very little about it   ...  so i wonder  if i need to do something after that ?      can i over use it ?        if i just want to try it out for fun and ask many questions  can it be harmful ?  

should i give some offering after this  (read somewhere you need to give some offering or something like that)  ?  

anything someone wants to add on using this website ....  or about  I-ching in general would be appriciated


since im not sure its a good thing to use it without knowing much or if it be harmful  than i wouldnt recommend people who dont know to use it   - but for people here who know  about the i ching and want to check the website  here is the link : https://www.ichingonline.net/uses.php

Edited by waterdrop

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I don't see why it would be harmful. I personally much prefer working with old-fashioned methods but whether yarrow stalks or coins are somehow inherently superior to a digital equivalent, I don't know. There is a whole forum devoted to the Yijing so I would recommend looking at the resources shared there: https://www.thedaobums.com/forum/349-yijing/

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3 hours ago, waterdrop said:

I found an online I ching   ..........   you just enter a question and throw virtual coins in thier program  and in calculates and gives you a result .....  to use it  or its harmful ?  

I never used I-ching  and i know very little about it   ...  so i wonder  if i need to do something after that ?      can i over use it ?        if i just want to try it out for fun and ask many questions  can it be harmful ?  

should i give some offering after this  (read somewhere you need to give some offering or something like that)  ?  

anything someone wants to add on using this website ....  or about  I-ching in general would be appriciated


since im not sure its a good thing to use it without knowing much or if it be harmful  than i wouldnt recommend people who dont know to use it   - but for people here who know  about the i ching and want to check the website  here is the link : https://www.ichingonline.net/uses.php

 

I use it occasionally - its handy and I think harmless - you have to be a bit careful with the interpretations though but I think its generally on the right lines.

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Yi Jing should be performed manually if you wasn’t accurate insight. It’s not harmful to play with online stuff though.

 

There is definitely some skill that must be developed over time to get good at Yi jing. And an online calculator (which can never be truly random, and cannot be infused at the correct junctions with your intent).

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9 minutes ago, freeform said:

Yi Jing should be performed manually if you wasn’t accurate insight. It’s not harmful to play with online stuff though.

 

There is definitely some skill that must be developed over time to get good at Yi jing. And an online calculator (which can never be truly random, and cannot be infused at the correct junctions with your intent).

 

I don't know if yarrow stalks or coin toss could be called truly random either. I think a truly random method of consultation would have to be done by a physicist with some fancy equipment. I wonder what @Harmen and @Taomeow think of this question.

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20 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

 

I don't know if yarrow stalks or coin toss could be called truly random either. I think a truly random method of consultation would have to be done by a physicist with some fancy equipment. I wonder what @Harmen and @Taomeow think of this question.

 

Yes you're right - 'truly random' is one of those esoteric mathematics things isn't it :)

 

However - the way I've been taught the Yi Jing, it involves using your intent in a particular way and at specific moments of the process.

 

Using yarrow stalks, as far as I understand gives a more accurate distribution of the rarer Gua - the coin equivalent has these rarer trigrams appear far more often.

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16 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

 

I don't know if yarrow stalks or coin toss could be called truly random either. I think a truly random method of consultation would have to be done by a physicist with some fancy equipment. I wonder what @Harmen and @Taomeow think of this question.

 

Well, yes, no method is truly random, as was determined by the scholars of the I Ching as far back as the Shang dynasty.  The reason is that yin and yang are not acting in the real world in the same manner -- they are acting in the opposite manners, and one of the differences inherent in their behavior, which no method can overcome, is that "fast change" is an attribute (or "virtue") of yang while "slow change," "perseverance," "the ability to last long" (heng) is a "virtue" of yin.  

 

As a result, situations in the real world tend to stay fundamentally unchanged for stretches of long time to a much greater extent than they tend to rapidly change.  Look around you -- it's all around you.  The mountains persevere, the clouds on top come and go.  But there's only two lines to describe each behavior when we look at them as a pair -- a yin line for the mountain, a yang line for the clouds.  A purely random process though would yield exactly the same probability of the mountain floating away on the wind as for the cloud staying put for a million years.  So, an equal, "egalitarian" distribution of probabilities of a yin line or a yang line does not, without additional analysis of their conditions and environment, yield an accurate understanding.   

 

This can't be overcome by fancy equipment either, so the divination must always engage the brain of the diviner interpreting the cast -- this process can never be mechanized, automatized or artificially imitated.  The mind must know a cloud from a mountain and what to expect of each.  The mind must know a situation that is likely to change from a situation that is not likely to change.  You don't expect to step on the tiger's tail involving the actual live tiger first thing in the morning.  But if the line says "stepping on the tiger's tail," you can expect a heightened level of a dangerous change compared to the prior conditions -- yet the chance of not stepping on that tail is still higher than the chance of stepping on it. 

 

An I Ching divination that is to be accurate demands a lot of the diviner.  The method is somewhat (not entirely) less important.  I've determined that a quick electronic reading is only appropriate when you are after a quick pointer regarding a situation that is not very life-shattering.  I might ask about buying or not buying an item I placed in my Amazon cart, e.g..  Whereas if I want to know the best time or destination for a vacation, I'll use the coins -- they will help me focus my mind toward a better understanding of the outcome.  And if I want to know whether to move to another state or country or galaxy, I'll use the yarrow stalks.  They will slow me down enough for my mind to penetrate the mind of tao...  hopefully. :)  

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On 5-5-2020 at 4:47 PM, freeform said:

 

Yes you're right - 'truly random' is one of those esoteric mathematics things isn't it :)

 

However - the way I've been taught the Yi Jing, it involves using your intent in a particular way and at specific moments of the process.

 

Using yarrow stalks, as far as I understand gives a more accurate distribution of the rarer Gua - the coin equivalent has these rarer trigrams appear far more often.

 

I don't really care about the method that is used - I can interpret any hexagram regardless of the question or situation, I can always make it meaningful and relevant, no matter the hexagram that I get or how I get it. It is not so much about the method or the hexagram that you get - what matters is what you do with it.

So don't be bothered by statistics, math etc. Just trust that you will always get the answer that you need, and what you need will be meaningful and relevant to you.

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10 minutes ago, Harmen said:

 

I don't really care about the method that is used - I can interpret any hexagram regardless of the question or situation, I can always make it meaningful and relevant, no matter the hexagram that I get or how I get it. It is not so much about the method or the hexagram that you get - what matters is what you do with it.

 

All right.  Real life example from my experience.

 

Q: I divine the most likely outcome of such-and-such local band changing its name to this-and-that.

A: Although there is sickness, one does not die.

 

What's your interpretation?   

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

Q: I divine the most likely outcome of such-and-such local band changing its name to this-and-that.

 

What's your interpretation?   

 

That they should change their name to Eternal Undeath.

Edited by Harmen

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37 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

All right.  Real life example from my experience.

 

Q: I divine the most likely outcome of such-and-such local band changing its name to this-and-that.

A: Although there is sickness, one does not die.

 

What's your interpretation?   

 

Thanks for doing that !

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17 minutes ago, Harmen said:

 

That they should change their name to Eternal Undeath.

 

Nice name.

 

What really happened:

 

the inquiring party had something like a stubborn cold at the time of inquiry.  Within a couple of weeks though it became clear that it was in fact something a whole lot more serious.  Life-threatening to the max.  The band ceased to exist, and the next four years were dedicated exclusively to handling that I Ching line. 

 

It was my first example (but not the last) of the I Ching knowing things I don't know yet and couldn't fathom no matter how insightful and accurate my interpretation --

 

as well as of the empirical discovery that she will answer precisely the question of the moment if it's a serious one, not the question I happened to ask which might be inconsequential.  She will just ignore what I'm trying to divine and go straight to what I ought to be inquiring about, and answer that question whether I had the insight to ask it or not.

 

So, sometimes, when the reading "makes no sense," I have to ask, "What is it that right now I really ought to be divining instead?"

 

This book is infinitely more mind-blowing than anyone who might assume that its accuracy is solely a function of their own powers of interpretation can imagine.  At least that's been my conclusion after 20 years of close communication and plenty of opportunities to evaluate the outcomes retrospectively.       

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5 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

the inquiring party had something like a stubborn cold at the time of inquiry.  Within a couple of weeks...

 

So the actual event as described by the text of the Yijing happened weeks after your interpretation? How did you interpret the hexagram at that time, as an answer to the statement 'I divine the most likely outcome of such-and-such local band changing its name to this-and-that.'? 

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1 hour ago, Harmen said:

 

So the actual event as described by the text of the Yijing happened weeks after your interpretation? How did you interpret the hexagram at that time, as an answer to the statement 'I divine the most likely outcome of such-and-such local band changing its name to this-and-that.'? 

 

No, you misunderstood.  The event was already in progress at the time.  It's just that no one knew it yet.  The I Ching knew.

 

How I interpreted it at the time, I don't remember, but it was not the correct interpretation no matter what it was.  The correct thing to do would be to get worried.  Which I did.  The vigilance went through the roof, because if you are in communication with the I Ching and with your own subtle anatomy and physiology, you don't just get the hexagrams or the lines or the judgments -- you get something like sensory or even extrasensory input.  My lower dantien interpreted the reading as a warning, while my mind was doing its best to take over and ignore the warning and come up with its own interpretation.  And, of course, it can't do that very convincingly when it's about things it doesn't know -- except if its main training is in how to lie to itself or others or both.  

 

Accepting that neither your mind, nor your unconscious, nor your skill trump the mystery of the I Ching is a prerequisite to becoming good at it.  Anyone can superimpose anything, we are constantly making stories, creating scenarios, psychologizing, intellectualizing reality.  But reality is what the I Ching deals in -- and not just our perceptions of it. 

 

Also sprach Taomeow. :)   

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20 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

No, you misunderstood.  The event was already in progress at the time.  It's just that no one knew it yet.  The I Ching knew.

 

How I interpreted it at the time, I don't remember, but it was not the correct interpretation no matter what it was.  The correct thing to do would be to get worried.  Which I did.  The vigilance went through the roof, because if you are in communication with the I Ching and with your own subtle anatomy and physiology, you don't just get the hexagrams or the lines or the judgments -- you get something like sensory or even extrasensory input.  My lower dantien interpreted the reading as a warning, while my mind was doing its best to take over and ignore the warning and come up with its own interpretation.  And, of course, it can't do that very convincingly when it's about things it doesn't know -- except if its main training is in how to lie to itself or others or both.  

 

Accepting that neither your mind, nor your unconscious, nor your skill trump the mystery of the I Ching is a prerequisite to becoming good at it.  Anyone can superimpose anything, we are constantly making stories, creating scenarios, psychologizing, intellectualizing reality.  But reality is what the I Ching deals in -- and not just our perceptions of it. 

 

Also sprach Taomeow. :)   

 

and what about no question interrogation ?

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14 minutes ago, CloudHands said:

 

and what about no question interrogation ?

 

If I understood you correctly, you mean something like simply asking the I Ching, "Talk to me?"  I've done that. :) 

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5 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

If I understood you correctly, you mean something like simply asking the I Ching, "Talk to me?"  I've done that. :) 

 

Yes or more something like an unmentioned "what's now ?" but that would be a question already.

Would that be absolutely unorthodox ?

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3 minutes ago, CloudHands said:

 

Yes or more something like an unmentioned "what's now ?" but that would be a question already.

Would that be absolutely unorthodox ?

 

I dunno -- might not be specific enough. I prefer to set a more orthodox stage.  Also it depends on the kind of relationship one has with the I Ching.  One can approach her (or, to others, "it" or "him" -- to me she is a female presence) as a customer/client, a casual acquaintance, an inquisitor, a friend, a disciple...  seek out the help of a guidance counsellor of sorts, an advisor, a therapist, a parent figure -- probably different for different people.  Perhaps, if one is a taoist immortal or god, discuss things as an equal.  Mine is definitely a student/teacher, master/disciple relationship with her.  So I sort of shape my interactions with her in that vein.  Would I ask my taoist teacher or my taiji teacher "what now?"  Probably not unless the context was clear enough.    

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5 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

I dunno -- might not be specific enough. I prefer to set a more orthodox stage.  Also it depends on the kind of relationship one has with the I Ching.  One can approach her (or, to others, "it" or "him" -- to me she is a female presence) as a customer/client, a casual acquaintance, an inquisitor, a friend, a disciple...  seek out the help of a guidance counsellor of sorts, an advisor, a therapist, a parent figure -- probably different for different people.  Perhaps, if one is a taoist immortal or god, discuss things as an equal.  Mine is definitely a student/teacher, master/disciple relationship with her.  So I sort of shape my interactions with her in that vein.  Would I ask my taoist teacher or my taiji teacher "what now?"  Probably not unless the context was clear enough.    

 

Thanks and you answered my other question by the way !

I missed you :)

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