Taomeow

Sumer: the "black-headed" vs. the "red-faced"

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Afternoon quite time  :)

 

Okay. There is a fairly recent concept in Australian Anthropology called  ( and again 3 levels )  ; The Real , The Really Real and The Really Really Real  ( serious )  ; Uncle Lewi is  really a possum but really really. he is, of course . not 'a possum', he is a man , but beyond that,  really really, he IS really a possum ( ie. possum man  ) .

 

Now, there are all sorts of totems for different reasons  , it is very specific in Aboriginal culture and complex, relating to  family extensions ( moiety )  , time place of  birth and a whole lot of things. So really anyone removed from that cannot have 'that type' of totem. Yet,  they will even , freely 'give' white people totems, or accept that they have them .  EG . I was in a tricky situation, the boys went hunting, I was doing something else and returned and as an honour to me, they had saved me the best part of the hunt - a  fat storage gland behind the back leg of a goanna . On the first bite, it had a texture like a prawn, a thick oil filled my mouth and ran down my throuat that REALLY disgusted me  ( dont throw up dont throw up .... that would be soooo bad ! )  I tried, but nope, I had to admit, sorry fellahs, I cant eat this .... ummm, s doing something really strange to me .... I noticed the llok of surprise and disappointment and even insult in some .... think quick .... ermmm  maybe its my totem .  This guy goes 'Shit ! ' and snatches it away  and they " Ohhh maybe it is ! " and apologised to me !    (But after other stuff I realise they ARE one of my totems , they live under my house, made a burrow under my front porch ( and the cement has split and is collapsing due to it .  Mated on my front porch step . GF had dream about me ubder the house in an underground cave with goannas, and me covering some up with a blanket and uncovering others - I turned saw her and " GET OUT ! "  :D   ... it really freaked her . I have 'Stumpy' a 3 legged feral pet one that lives in a hide I made for him, and at hard  times I give him  food and water - as he cant climb trees with a front leg missing .

 

The totem Uncle Lewi gives me  is 'Webra Jali'   The 'flame tree'

 

 

Spoiler

australia-brachychiton-acerifolius-flame

 

 

I also have  'Yumbar' , the carpet snake or rainbow python ( Rainbow Serpent ).

 

'Astrologically'  (earth) I have the crab  ( a blue swimmer crab ) .  I  spent the first part of my life as a 'salt water man' , hanging around the shore and estuaries (but not  at out sea ) . As a little un , having a father that was a Surf Life Saver, most weekends where spent at the beach , I was given a snorkel and face mask and chucked in a rock pool as my babysitter " Stay there till lunch "  ... usually I would have to be coaxed out to take a short lunch break ( and in that I have blue ringed octopus - another story )

 

But ''cosmically, I am the Twins ... heaps in there , but another story .   So I can  agree and read with interest everything you wrote above  :)

 

One more story ....  I am at the Camp and I KNOW Uncle Lewi has been there all day. A woman comes in from town a little distressed . "OH my GOD!  I nearly ran over a  family of possums  crossing the road in broad daylight   " ( and that is unusual)

Lewi ; " I know ! You driving too fast ! Slow down ."

Woman : " Well, not really I .... "

Lewi : " And you were not paying attention . You nearly  didnt see that first possum, run out to the side of the road stand up and wave his arms around ?  He was trying to warn you ,  you slowed down just in time ."

Woman ; " Yes, I saw that, what unusual behaviour, it made me slow down just in time ... but how do you know about that .

Lewi :  " Well, because, that possum was me . "

 

Everyone listening ...   :o

 

- I 've done this before a few times , so ignore me if you  already have  .... but we prob have new readers by now

 

- would you like to meet my teacher and long time friend   , Uncle  Lewi  ?  See below

 

Spoiler

 

 

... first half ;

 

 

 

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Other aspects  and more detail of Australian Totemism are, of course,  on the internet .   (Some I neglected to mention, like tribal divisions into two main ones ... who can marry who,  etc . )

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On 8/30/2019 at 9:35 AM, Apech said:

 

One interesting question about early societies (early by standard historical narrative) i.e. Sumer, Egypt, Indus Valley, Ancient China is that the divine beings were depicted quite often as human with animal heads, or other body parts, wings, tails and so on.  Of course this goes way back - as cave painting show the same kind of iconography e.g. antlered man, lioness with human body and so on.  So the question is why?  Why is the divine seen in this way rather than the present rather abstract disembodied spirit and so on.

 

What people in those days meant by 'gods' is quite different to today.  And based more on 'seeing' than thought or abstract ideas.  Shamans see these kinds of figures.  How is it to be understood I wonder.

 

 

 

Yes, this has always interested me too -- do we take those depictions literally, i.e. did they really look like that in the world, or was this a depiction of their deeper nature...  spirit, psychological portrait, knowledge of origins...  genetic insight...  genetic manipulation?  Or something quite beyond that...  an ability to manipulate flesh at will, and not just in shamanic or early taoist realms where they routinely turn into not only animals but forces of nature and even forces beyond nature -- like in that Zhuangzi story where a shaman ran in fear from a taoist master who showed himself to him as the void -- the shaman could see his true nature and it freaked him out?      

 

That pine cone, which is also a big deal in the Vatican -- what's that about?  Someone did something to our pineal gland?  And two and a half thousand years of worshipping a creator dragon-god, Marduk, later simply referred to as the Lord -- modern monotheists still continue to call their god that though they forgot he was once just the leader of the pack, and a dragon at that -- what's a dragon, it's not any one animal, it's a composite of many, the ultimate heterochimera.  Where did they come from -- did nature create them, or nurture?  And what did they want with us?  

 

 

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Z38.4BKentauros.jpg

 

 

They got angry ....  well, one of 'em.

 

" You cant fight ... becasue you used to be a woman ! "

 

In Ovid's description of the tale, a particular centaur, Latreus, mocks Caeneus and denies his skill as a fighter when he realizes that Caeneus is originally female. Caeneus strikes Latreus a blow in the side, and is unharmed by the centaur's last attempts at wounding him. In revenge for this, the centaurs piled pine-tree trunks (some say fir trees) and stones upon him, since he was immune to weapons.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caeneus

 

 

 

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Sumerian weight measures were derived from the average weight of a fully formed, ripe barley grain.

 

1 grain -- sheu -- 0,046 g

180 sheu -- shiklu -- 8,4g

60 shiklu -- manu -- 504g

60 manu -- bitlu -- 30,3kg

 

 

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Quote

1. And after this I saw another dream, and I will show the whole dream to thee, my son. 

2. And Enoch lifted up (his voice) and spake to his son Methuselah: 'To thee, my son, will I speak: hear my words--incline thine ear to the dream-vision of thy father. 

3. Before I took thy mother Edna, I saw in a vision on my bed, and behold a bull came forth from the earth, and that bull was white; and after it came forth a heifer, and along with this (latter) came forth two bulls, one of them black and the other red. 

4. And that black bull gored the red one and pursued him over the earth, and thereupon I could no longer see that red bull. 

5. But that black bull grew and that heifer went with him, and I saw that many oxen proceeded from him which resembled and followed him. 

6. And that cow, that first one, went from the presence of that first bull in order to seek that red one, but found him not, and lamented with a great lamentation over him and sought him. 

7. And I looked till that first bull came to her and quieted her, and from that time onward she cried no more. 

8. And after that she bore another white bull, and after him she bore many bulls and black cows.

9. And I saw in my sleep that white bull likewise grow and become a great white bull, and from Him proceeded many white bulls, and they resembled him. And they began to beget many white bulls, which resembled them, one following the other, (even) many.

 

LXXXV-XC. The Second Dream-Vision of Enoch: the History of the World to the Founding of the Messianic Kingdom.

 

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God has a dog.  

 

Or, rather, a goddess does -- Gula, the Sumerian goddess of medicine.  The dog is her alter ego, her spirit, and her standard attribute (all ancient deities had some distinct attributes, often used in their depictions, as a signature of sorts so that they could be recognized.)

 

Gula is credited with both introducing humans to surgery and using surgical instruments as weapons.  Her scalpels are praised in ancient hymns as weapons that caused a twofold effect.  One is that they were used against any wound, an object lodged in it, or an illness understood as a malicious spirit lodged in the flesh, and the actual application was preceded by threatening incantations: "Leave this body before my scalpels and my catheters reach you!  My weapons are sharp as the lion's teeth, they will tear you apart!"  But the other side of it was, these weapons "kept the black-headed shaking with fear."  Because they, well, could "tear apart" the patient too.  And so heroic surgical medicine, medicine as a bloody battle whose outcome, like that of any battle, is a matter of much uncertainty, was established.

 

Gula's dog, however, looks quite nice and eager to serve in this depiction...  Although about dogs, we also know that they can go either way depending on the purpose decided upon by the owner.  The dogs of war...  hunters' dogs, police dogs, guard dogs...      

 

71592243_236963013940674_2324657478526042112_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQk7BrswlkJsfhZPioB7k61G7hMg6nKn-6GhhoAVEOcYuppIFVlzEUBASqx3ECHBb9k&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=f28480a296e2c27d3062c232f0f7ddd7&oe=5E2AC178   

 

 

 

 

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we are all hunters... in that we innately hunt what we seek, what we desire.

as

we are all gardeners, in that all we say and do, plants seeds of effect, in those we affect.

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1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

we are all hunters... in that we innately hunt what we seek, what we desire.

as

we are all gardeners, in that all we say and do, plants seeds of effect, in those we affect.

 

This can be extended indefinitely.  We are all programmers, we are all garbage collectors, we are all historians, teachers, traders, etc.

 

What I meant is something different though.  Sumerians understood the instruments of healing and of intimidation, subjugation, or (as the case may be) killing as wielded by the same hand, answering to the same master.  In the light of "nothing has really changed in the patterns of use of power since then," which is my main idea under exploration, comparing that pattern to the actual functions of the medical establishment of today may be worth pondering.   

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The Sumerian pantheon cannot be reduced to one God, one Goddess, or even one Demon, or one Spirit... and the depth of its complexity is almost certainly lost on the various appellations of the modern mind in modern life attesting to modern ways.

 

Quote

(With a second invocation, now of Ishum, the narrator introduces the terrible Seven, who stand ready to massacre the "black-headed folk" or Mesopotamians)

 

O Engidudu, who patrols at night, ever guiding the noble,
Who ever guides young men and women in safety, making light as day,
The Seven, warriors unrivalled, their divine nature is different,
Their origins are strange, they are terrifying,
Whoever sees them is numbed with fear.
Their breath of life is death,
People are too frightened to appproach it!
Yet Ishum is the door, bolted before them.
When Anu, the king of the gods, sowed his seed in the earth,
She bore him seven gods, he called them the Seven.
They stood before him, that he ordain their destinies,
He summoned the first to give his instructions,
"Wherever you go and spread terror, have no equal."
He said to the second, "Burn like fire, scorch like flame".
He commanded the third, "Look like a lion, let him who sees you be paralysed with fear".
He said to the fourth,"Let a mountain collapse when you present your fierce arms".
He said to the fifth, "Blast like the wind, scan the circumference of the earth".
He said to the sixth."Go out everywhere (like the deluge) and spare no one".
The seveth he charged with viperous venom," Slay whatever lives".
After Anu had ordained destinies for all of the Seven,
He gave those very ones to Erra, warrior of the gods, saying:
"Let them go beside you, when the clamor of human habitations becomes noisome to you,
"And you resolve to wreak destruction,
"To massacre the black-headed folk and fell the livestock,
"Let these be your fierce weaponry, let them go beside you".

 

http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/myths/texts/classic/erraishum.htm

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4 hours ago, ऋषि said:

The Sumerian pantheon cannot be reduced to one God, one Goddess, or even one Demon, or one Spirit... and the depth of its complexity is almost certainly lost on the various appellations of the modern mind in modern life attesting to modern ways.

 

 

 

 

"A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent."

 

Edited by Taomeow
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Posted (edited)
On 30/09/2019 at 6:00 AM, Taomeow said:

God has a dog.  

 

Or, rather, a goddess does -- Gula, the Sumerian goddess of medicine.  The dog is her alter ego, her spirit, and her standard attribute (all ancient deities had some distinct attributes, often used in their depictions, as a signature of sorts so that they could be recognized.)

 

Gula is credited with both introducing humans to surgery and using surgical instruments as weapons.  Her scalpels are praised in ancient hymns as weapons that caused a twofold effect.  One is that they were used against any wound, an object lodged in it, or an illness understood as a malicious spirit lodged in the flesh, and the actual application was preceded by threatening incantations: "Leave this body before my scalpels and my catheters reach you!  My weapons are sharp as the lion's teeth, they will tear you apart!"  But the other side of it was, these weapons "kept the black-headed shaking with fear."  Because they, well, could "tear apart" the patient too.  And so heroic surgical medicine, medicine as a bloody battle whose outcome, like that of any battle, is a matter of much uncertainty, was established.

 

Gula's dog, however, looks quite nice and eager to serve in this depiction...  Although about dogs, we also know that they can go either way depending on the purpose decided upon by the owner.  The dogs of war...  hunters' dogs, police dogs, guard dogs...      

 

71592243_236963013940674_2324657478526042112_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQk7BrswlkJsfhZPioB7k61G7hMg6nKn-6GhhoAVEOcYuppIFVlzEUBASqx3ECHBb9k&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=f28480a296e2c27d3062c232f0f7ddd7&oe=5E2AC178   

 

 

 

 

 

 

4745017.jpg?295

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vendidad ;

 

VII.

41. O Maker of the material world, thou Holy One! Which of the two wolves deserves more to be killed, the one that a he-dog begets of a she-wolf, or the one that a he-wolf begets of a she-dog?

Ahura Mazda answered: 'Of these two wolves, the one that a he-dog begets of a she-wolf deserves more to be killed than the one that a he-wolf begets of a she-dog.

42. 'For the dogs born therefrom fall on the shepherd's dog, on the house-dog, on the Vohu-nazga dog, on the trained dog, and destroy the folds; such dogs are more murderous, more mischievous, more destructive to the folds than any other dogs30.  
43. 'And the wolves born therefrom fall on the shepherd's dog, on the house-dog, on the Vohunazga dog, on the trained dog, and destroy the folds; such wolves are more murderous, more mischievous, more destructive to the folds than any other wolves.

 

 

Spoiler

I edited the previous out  and replaced  this as I see that T's point is more about the dual nature of things .

 

Edited by Nungali
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On 30/09/2019 at 6:33 AM, silent thunder said:

we are all hunters... in that we innately hunt what we seek, what we desire.

as

we are all gardeners, in that all we say and do, plants seeds of effect, in those we affect.

 

I saw a great dance called 'We are  hunters'

 

It was at the local markets, so a lot of people where sitting around on the ground watching .  Some  Aboriginals from a near by town where doing it .   The leader  of the dance , a big furry friendly Kola man - Wirrunga - started by saying

 

"We are all hunters ....    we hunt what we seek . "      :) 

 

Then the music started and he danced around, occasionally stopping to check people out , even feel them,  smell them , like a man's white long beard, a woman's unusual hat, etc .  Every so often, suddenly he would turn and yell and jab his spear in the  ground in front of someone  .  . people would get a shock and a startle .... then laugh at their reaction.    Good dance  that one .

 

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On 30/09/2019 at 8:19 AM, Taomeow said:

 

This can be extended indefinitely.  We are all programmers, we are all garbage collectors, we are all historians, teachers, traders, etc.

 

What I meant is something different though.  Sumerians understood the instruments of healing and of intimidation, subjugation, or (as the case may be) killing as wielded by the same hand, answering to the same master.  In the light of "nothing has really changed in the patterns of use of power since then," which is my main idea under exploration, comparing that pattern to the actual functions of the medical establishment of today may be worth pondering.   

 

 

 

 

6800155.jpg

 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Old Zoroastrian saying ; " Dog is friend of mankind "

 

' My little dog , I shall sing to you ."

 

4745017.jpg?295

 

 

 

My human entertainer, I shall reciprocate.

 

 

 

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Ahhh ... thats nice .

 

But the whole underlying theme here , is a little , well,  freaky .

 

 

s1.jpg

 

 

Thank goodness for aesthetics ! 

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20 minutes ago, Nungali said:

But the whole underlying theme here , is a little , well,  freaky .

Thank goodness for aesthetics ! 

 

What's so aesthetic about that horrible picture?  Oh.. you probably mean anaesthetics (or, as we Americans put it, anesthetics.)  And with this subject, we can go back to Sumer.  Sumerians left the first written records of the use of anesthetics.  The European learned medical barbarians who performed surgeries without anesthesia came much later.    

 

For anesthetics, Sumerians cultivated and harvested the opium poppy (Papaver somniferum) as early as 3400 BC.  The most ancient testimony concerning the opium poppy found to date was inscribed on a small white clay tablet at the end of the third millennium BC and is considered to be the most ancient pharmacopoeia in existence.  (An aside: "the most ancient written one" -- I believe oral transmissions were in existence much, much earlier, and can personally attest to their accuracy and efficiency because, e.g., everything from the family herbal lore that I got from my grandmother and my father who were both knowledgeable about such thins I got in oral transmissions often accompanied by live demonstrations beginning at about age 4, and by age 13 I knew 80% of all I know today about the medicinal and wild edible plants of the part of the world where the teachings took place -- the rest did come from books later -- and remember close to 100% of what was taught orally with live demos and only about 20% of what was later learned from books.  I knew all about the opium poppy at age 4 because my grandmother grew a different kind, edible, but still with trace amounts of opium in it, in her little flower garden, for poppyseed pies which were out of this world good and fiercely addictive, and strictly forbade consuming raw poppy seeds straight out of the natural "box" they grow in -- explaining in detail why.  I usually managed to talk her into giving me one or two of those "boxes" to eat the poppies straight out of, they were sooo tasty.  More was off limits.  And baking them in a pie deactivated the opium.)  

 

The Sumerian for opium was "hul gil", which translates as "plant of joy."  Nisaba, the Sumerian goddess of writing, learning and the harvest, was often depicted with opium poppies growing out of her body.  In some parts of the world, the term "gil" is still used for opium.

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More fun facts.

 

Sumerian slaves were allowed to own their own property, make deals, and own their own slaves. 

Some well-positioned slaves were wealthier than the free folks.

However, many attempted to run away from the master, and occasionally succeeded.  The opposite also happened on occasion -- a master who went broke ran away, abandoning his slaves.

 

 The Sumerian term for "slave" literally meant "one who came down from the wild."    

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"Abrahamic religions" is a recently invented term for what came thousands of years _later_ than the agricultural, city-building, and "savages" (hunter-gatherer) exterminating activities of Sumer and, after conquests, Akkad. All of it taking place within a polytheistic framework placing gods far above the earth. The arid conditions came next, agriculture came first. And there doesn't seem to be anything natural whatsoever about its advent. It was a power grab by the only method that could ensure it -- deforestation. Civilization=deforestation. "Abrahamic" people came thousands of years after the fact.

 

The Sumerian world was divided along a very straightforward line (with no other lines drawn, whether religious or ethnic): the "civilized" (city-dwelling and grain agriculture practicing) and the "savage" (forests and mountains-dwelling hunter gatherers) line of sharp division. The former, the "civilized," took it upon themselves to exterminate (mostly) and enslave the latter, and did it consistently and relentlessly for thousands of years, in countless raids undertaken toward the purpose. The future "Abrahamic" people were originally whoever survived without being fully incorporated into the "civilized" fold -- though they transformed into nomadic herdsmen by then rather than hunter-gatherers. The conflict between the sedentary grain agriculturalists and nomadic herdsmen was never actually resolved, but it took a different shape over time, along the religious and ethnic lines. This is nowhere near where it originated though. The main conflict of the civilized Earth is the conflict between "civilized" and "Earth."

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1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

"Abrahamic religions" is a recently invented term for what came thousands of years _later_ than the agricultural, city-building, and "savages" (hunter-gatherer) exterminating activities of Sumer and, after conquests, Akkad. All of it taking place within a polytheistic framework placing gods far above the earth. The arid conditions came next, agriculture came first. And there doesn't seem to be anything natural whatsoever about its advent. It was a power grab by the only method that could ensure it -- deforestation. Civilization=deforestation. "Abrahamic" people came thousands of years after the fact.

 

The Sumerian world was divided along a very straightforward line (with no other lines drawn, whether religious or ethnic): the "civilized" (city-dwelling and grain agriculture practicing) and the "savage" (forests and mountains-dwelling hunter gatherers) line of sharp division. The former, the "civilized," took it upon themselves to exterminate (mostly) and enslave the latter, and did it consistently and relentlessly for thousands of years, in countless raids undertaken toward the purpose. The future "Abrahamic" people were originally whoever survived without being fully incorporated into the "civilized" fold -- though they transformed into nomadic herdsmen by then rather than hunter-gatherers. The conflict between the sedentary grain agriculturalists and nomadic herdsmen was never actually resolved, but it took a different shape over time, along the religious and ethnic lines. This is nowhere near where it originated though. The main conflict of the civilized Earth is the conflict between "civilized" and "Earth."

 

What was the origin of the civilized faction?

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1 hour ago, mark said:

 

What was the origin of the civilized faction?

 

Check out the first post in this thread. 

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On 03/10/2019 at 2:35 AM, Taomeow said:

More fun facts.

 

Sumerian slaves were allowed to own their own property, make deals, and own their own slaves. 

Some well-positioned slaves were wealthier than the free folks.

However, many attempted to run away from the master, and occasionally succeeded.  The opposite also happened on occasion -- a master who went broke ran away, abandoning his slaves.

 

 The Sumerian term for "slave" literally meant "one who came down from the wild."    

 

 

And from what wilderness  did they  'come DOWN'  from ?

 

( and why didnt  the Sumerians go 'up  into'  that area ('wilderness')  and why didnt the 'wild people' 'come down' into  Sumerian lands  much earlier  than they did and what where they doing 'up' there anyway ... and who where they ?    :)   )

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On 01/10/2019 at 12:08 PM, Taomeow said:

 

What's so aesthetic about that horrible picture?  Oh.. you probably mean anaesthetics (or, as we Americans put it, anesthetics.)  And with this subject, we can go back to Sumer.  Sumerians left the first written records of the use of anesthetics.  The European learned medical barbarians who performed surgeries without anesthesia came much later.    

 

For anesthetics, Sumerians cultivated and harvested the opium poppy (Papaver somniferum) as early as 3400 BC.  The most ancient testimony concerning the opium poppy found to date was inscribed on a small white clay tablet at the end of the third millennium BC and is considered to be the most ancient pharmacopoeia in existence.  (An aside: "the most ancient written one" -- I believe oral transmissions were in existence much, much earlier, and can personally attest to their accuracy and efficiency because, e.g., everything from the family herbal lore that I got from my grandmother and my father who were both knowledgeable about such thins I got in oral transmissions often accompanied by live demonstrations beginning at about age 4, and by age 13 I knew 80% of all I know today about the medicinal and wild edible plants of the part of the world where the teachings took place -- the rest did come from books later -- and remember close to 100% of what was taught orally with live demos and only about 20% of what was later learned from books.  I knew all about the opium poppy at age 4 because my grandmother grew a different kind, edible, but still with trace amounts of opium in it, in her little flower garden, for poppyseed pies which were out of this world good and fiercely addictive, and strictly forbade consuming raw poppy seeds straight out of the natural "box" they grow in -- explaining in detail why.  I usually managed to talk her into giving me one or two of those "boxes" to eat the poppies straight out of, they were sooo tasty.  More was off limits.  And baking them in a pie deactivated the opium.)  

 

The Sumerian for opium was "hul gil", which translates as "plant of joy."  Nisaba, the Sumerian goddess of writing, learning and the harvest, was often depicted with opium poppies growing out of her body.  In some parts of the world, the term "gil" is still used for opium.

 

 

'aesthetics '      :rolleyes:

 

 

facepalm.jpg

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11 hours ago, Taomeow said:

"Abrahamic religions" is a recently invented term for what came thousands of years _later_ than the agricultural, city-building, and "savages" (hunter-gatherer) exterminating activities of Sumer and, after conquests, Akkad. All of it taking place within a polytheistic framework placing gods far above the earth. The arid conditions came next, agriculture came first. And there doesn't seem to be anything natural whatsoever about its advent. It was a power grab by the only method that could ensure it -- deforestation. Civilization=deforestation. "Abrahamic" people came thousands of years after the fact.

 

The Sumerian world was divided along a very straightforward line (with no other lines drawn, whether religious or ethnic): the "civilized" (city-dwelling and grain agriculture practicing) and the "savage" (forests and mountains-dwelling hunter gatherers) line of sharp division. The former, the "civilized," took it upon themselves to exterminate (mostly) and enslave the latter, and did it consistently and relentlessly for thousands of years, in countless raids undertaken toward the purpose. The future "Abrahamic" people were originally whoever survived without being fully incorporated into the "civilized" fold -- though they transformed into nomadic herdsmen by then rather than hunter-gatherers. The conflict between the sedentary grain agriculturalists and nomadic herdsmen was never actually resolved, but it took a different shape over time, along the religious and ethnic lines. This is nowhere near where it originated though. The main conflict of the civilized Earth is the conflict between "civilized" and "Earth."

 

 

They key here is that the term 'Abrahamic Religions' ignore their real roots as the term Abrahamic can not include Zoroastrianism , which is   the precursor ;  (early Aryan , Pre-Vedic off shoot)  >   Zoroastrianism >  Judaism > Christianity > Islam > Baha'i .  'Evolution' via the process of ' Progressive Revelation'  . 

 

The earliest Zoroastrian writings (which seem to be a MEMORY of a much earlier time ) have an origin  in BMAC area (which is now recognised as a 'cradle of civilisation' along with  Tigres Euphrates Valley, Nile Valley, and Indus Valley Civilisations .

 

We have a collection of lands that these early 'Zoroastrians' knew about  ;

 

vendidadnations.jpg

 

 

Note the settlement patterns  from Central Asia,  north of the Zargos Mts ('The wilderness '  ? ) ,    across the 'top' , skirting the south sides around the seas, up into Anatolia and only the headwaters of the Tigres and Euphrates -  they didnt know about the lower valley / T&G rivers agricultural area.

 

And back then, who ever was in that area ( the Sumerians  ? )   didnt seem to know about them .

 

After these people 'disappeared'  ( the record of their events comes to an abrupt end  - victims of the 'Bronze Age Collapse'  ? )  we know no more about them  until the first written Assyrian accounts of them  as 'Pasa' coming down from the mountains  ( wilderness ) ;  The Assyrians    started to report 'Pasa'  being a nuisance  and coming down from wilderness  and raiding . Actually, the many tribes  to the east (headwaters of Karun river  ) got so pissed off about Assyrian raids on them they started banding together , the Pasa joined them and then became known as the Persia .... who  when they all kicked Assyria's arse, became the leaders (by minor matter of killing a non Persian relative leader) invaded  the Tigres Euphrates area and made the area part of the new Persian Empire .... which then went back and reclaimed all their old lands back to .... well, virtually,  China .

 

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Thus uniting all the 'cradles of civilisation'  from Egypt, through Mesopotamia ,  south Central Asia (BMAC) all the way to the Indus.

 

And making the biggest Empire ever seen .    

 

yeah.... I know !    But not as bad as the others though , they had a 'wise kingship' policy - basically, live and let live   ( just dont rebel and make sure you  pay your taxes ;)

 

But really,   if one looks at it, it was the previous guys that did thing like raid Israel and lead thousands off to their home in slavery . The great Persian Empire leader Cyrus  released them, sent them home in a caravan, with guards as protectors, and  goods  ... and riches enough to rebuild their Temple at Jerusalem.  

 

So, I am wondering if these H&G / pastoral  'wilderness people'   the  Sumerians  speak of are the remnant people from the old 'Zoroastrian culture'  (or 'Zoroastrian memories' ), the survives after their cultures collapsed are these people in the 'wilderness' and if that is the Zargos and  if these emerging 'Pasa' in Assyrian times  where their descendants  ?     -  They certainly seemed a lot more :user friendly than the Sumerians and Assyrians .

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