ben kaf

Do you possibly have a feedback system in your practice!

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I was talking to a friend and I thought it's good to post this question here too:

 

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I have realized when I have a feedback system for what I'm doing, I progress very fast and get the hang of whatever I'm doing soon, whereas when there is no feedback and I'm blindly trying, in hope that it works, I mostly fail. So in this kind of energy work (mostly in chi qong, nei qong, internal alchemy, etc.) like waking up dan tian or orbiting energy what could be a reference point as a feedback so I know I'm progressing or doing it right or not, I mean obviously beside sensing energies, because I'm not sure what I sense is really the energy moving or my mind making it up..

 

If you have tips or personal experiences from your early stages of your practice I'm very eager to hear...

Edited by ben kaf

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All these energy stuff is something you should start thinking of:

 

"Stopping it altogether and do the correct practice."

 

Learning a grounded internal art (Xingyi, Ba Gua) from a good, competent & intelligent teacher is all the feedback you'll ever need. 

 

Good luck!

 

 

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13 hours ago, Gerard said:

 

"Stopping it altogether and do the correct practice."

I don't agree with this point. I know what I'm doing and I'm not just haphazardly trying to do some stuff. I think energy work is like the soul while form is the body. But I guess that's another topic.

 

Quote

competent & intelligent teacher is all the feedback you'll ever need. 

What if someone cannot have access to a competent &intelligent teacher? I know when somebody says that here, everybody automatically will think oh! how lazy and ignorant you are, You are not even ready to go and find a true master. But there are countries in the world, my country included. that you cannot find masters like this. so you have to find your way until you find better options.

 

so thanks anyway but honestly your answer didn't help.

Edited by ben kaf

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28 minutes ago, ben kaf said:

But there are countries in the world, my country included.

 

What country?

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9 hours ago, ben kaf said:






1. What if someone cannot have access to a competent &intelligent teacher?



 



2. But there are countries in the world, my country included. that you cannot find masters like this. so you have to find your way until you find better options.



 



3. so thanks anyway but honestly your answer didn't help.









 



1. Then go/travel to where the master is. It has been done countless times (myself included). I don't live in the country where I was born and raised. I left alone with an airfare and luggage 21 years ago. Best decision I did in my entire life. 



 



2. Read the following file very carefully. It will further explain what I stated above.



 



https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/35465-favorite-bagua-resources-books-teachers-videos-etc/?do=findComment&comment=591127 (Bagua, life and the mind).



 



3. What were you expecting? Automatic healing and in-depth learning over the Internet? The Internet is only a place to connect and find information. And that's about it. So please let's be serious.



 



Good luck. 

Edited by Gerard
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9 hours ago, ben kaf said:

my country included

 

What country is that ?

 

As for feedback system, yes it's called being intelligent.  You walk into a door and you say "that's not very good, I'll try not to do that again".

 

Why are you opening your arms to embrace everything ?   Are you not aware of what goes on on this planet ?

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My feedback is:

 

As long as you have common sense, help and is willing to become friends with guide spirits, conscious possession techniques are way better at teaching than anything the living can offer. Or, at least, the living I know of.

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I have a valuable feedback system in my practice.

If I am doing my practices correctly, I should see tangible effects in my life.

Less impatience and frustration, deeper connections and openness in my relationships, less resistance to things I don't like, and less attraction to things I do like.

If I don't see clear changes in my day to day, I am not practicing effectively.

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3 hours ago, Desmonddf said:

is willing to become friends with guide spirits, conscious possession techniques are way better at teaching than anything the living can offer.

 

Let's be serious.

 

A very ungrounded and irresponsible advice.

 

A grounded teacher with either a background or deep knowledge of Ancient Chinese Medicine will provide you with correct feedback. Better than what the non-living can offer you. 

 

A reliable practice will help you understand the following: 

 

http://www.assemblixinc.com/ZangFu/ZangFu.html

 

https://www.easterncurrents.ca/for-practitioners/practitioners'-news/eastern-currents-news/2017/05/01/a-curious-organ---the-gallbladder

 

https://www.sacredlotus.com/go/diagnosis-chinese-medicine

 

And this is just the beginning of the journey because the Mind keeps going deeper, deeper and deeper. There is no end to it. But the beginning cannot be skipped; one must put diligent effort in healing, reconnecting and making sure the internal organs are working smoothly. 

 

The Qi clock is also a very helpful tool:

 

https://upliftconnect.com/24-hour-chi-cycle/

 

A good, reliable and grounded practice is scientific and tested for millennia (Taoist Medicine) and it thoroughly connects with internal arts practice (Ba Gua and Xingyi). 

 

Good luck finding that caring and knowledgeable teacher! :)

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On 2/11/2019 at 12:19 PM, ben kaf said:

If you have tips or personal experiences from your early stages of your practice I'm very eager to hear...

 

Art.

 

Occasionally, after practice, when you feel inspired...

Paint what you *feel* in your body.

 

You'll find that the process of painting helps you clarify, uncover, excavate, what you feel.  Meaning, you probably won't have an entire idea of what you are going to paint...  The process of painting, itself, reveals the picture.  You'll be surprised at what comes out.  It provides an external feedback, you can look at it.  Then do it again weeks or months later: you will see changes in the painting that very often correspond to the progression of the practice you are doing.

 

Materials?  I suggest:

1. A brush pen.  You can get one for less than $10.

2. If you're into color, a Crayola Watercolor set, again, < $10.

3. A journal that has watercolor-quality pages, so that you can use it as both a written journal and a sketch~paint journal.

4. The Sumi-E Book teaches brush technique, and the brush (with just a little training) can allow a poor untalented schmuck of a not-at-all-an-artist to make rather beautiful strokes.

 

Some of my own personal art is at https://invisiblewell.wordpress.com/ .

 

journalart-two-decades-and-change.jpg

 

003-tchup-cr.jpg

 

 

I do publish some (free) essays re: the internal arts at https://johndaoproductions.wordpress.com/ .

I have an upcoming essay entitled (something like) "Art Therapy for Mystics".  If you want to be notified when it gets posted either follow my wordpress site or follow my JDP thread here on TDBs.

 

 I was decades into my practices before I discovered how utilitarian painting could be.  It is something that would have been useful from the very beginning.

 

- Trunk

Edited by Trunk
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I find warmth in my dantien to be a good feedback.  Strangely earlier in my practice I seemed to get more warmth.  Yet when I'm consistent, I do feel more of an inner flame going on.  Also when I rub my palms together I get heat, quite hot, when I'm on the ball, and steady.

 

When I'm good, my startle reflex to loud sharp noise or sudden animal surprises is muted ie I don't flinch.  Similarly my gag reflex gets less, when I'm well practiced.. ie keeping it consistent. 

Edited by thelerner
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14 hours ago, Gerard said:

 

Let's be serious.

 

A very ungrounded and irresponsible advice.

 

A grounded teacher with either a background or deep knowledge of Ancient Chinese Medicine will provide you with correct feedback. Better than what the non-living can offer you. 

 

A reliable practice will help you understand the following: 

 

http://www.assemblixinc.com/ZangFu/ZangFu.html

 

https://www.easterncurrents.ca/for-practitioners/practitioners'-news/eastern-currents-news/2017/05/01/a-curious-organ---the-gallbladder

 

https://www.sacredlotus.com/go/diagnosis-chinese-medicine

 

And this is just the beginning of the journey because the Mind keeps going deeper, deeper and deeper. There is no end to it. But the beginning cannot be skipped; one must put diligent effort in healing, reconnecting and making sure the internal organs are working smoothly. 

 

The Qi clock is also a very helpful tool:

 

https://upliftconnect.com/24-hour-chi-cycle/

 

A good, reliable and grounded practice is scientific and tested for millennia (Taoist Medicine) and it thoroughly connects with internal arts practice (Ba Gua and Xingyi). 

 

Good luck finding that caring and knowledgeable teacher! :)

 

I do know all of those, as I am a licensed acupuncturist by career, thank you very much.

 

That said, the guide spirits I have with me are quite good with TCM as well. Better than my enbodied teachers. Guess it has to do with being able to actually see the organs, meridians, bones and others ;)

 

I mean, do you really think spirits do not do research on their own? Some have been around for thousands of years, just as much as TCM has been. They are quite up-to-date with stuff, and can guide you in any kind of research you want to.

 

Your disbelief in spirits do not change the value they have. Just shows that you are comiting the same mistake people have been comiting ever since the Shang Dinasty feel - trying to shut down contact with the real masters and turning to books and physical research.


The problem: They do not have the tools to do research deep enough to reach the old masters' level.

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On 2/13/2019 at 6:50 AM, Desmonddf said:

That said, the guide spirits I have with me are quite good with TCM as well. Better than my enbodied teachers. 

 

Looks like you have your answer. Ask your disembodied spirits for feedback then and recommend to your friend. Why ask the question in the first place

 

Got a bit confused there lol

8)

Edited by Astral Monk

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On 2/12/2019 at 4:00 PM, steve said:

I have a valuable feedback system in my practice.

If I am doing my practices correctly, I should see tangible effects in my life.

Less impatience and frustration, deeper connections and openness in my relationships, less resistance to things I don't like, and less attraction to things I do like.

If I don't see clear changes in my day to day, I am not practicing effectively.

 

Steve is correct here imo.

 

Good energy work is about establishing and maintaing balance. When you find that balance, the results are evident. Imagine a boat in rough waves, going to and fro, nearly tipping, nearly sinking. Then the storm breaks and the water is calm as glass. Before there was abundant 'feeling', now, its absence.

 

Its a caution to chase explicit feelings as a measure of success, because quite often they reflect an imbalance (as one might observe in TCM practice for instance). I reckon theres lots of systems that work this way--deliberate imbalances to create noticable effects. 

 

Anyway, finding a system and teacher isnt as onerous as it seems. Tonnes of systems promoted online nowadays, with regular retreats and community support at a distance. I think it is a must to get grounded with irl teachers, if only once a year or whatever, to get going. Youre going to have to practice after that anyway, and 90% of the work is on you, outside of the classroom. But yeah, it will take some $$ and will. But at least youcan ask directly what to look for as you progress. This isnt always available from books and whatnot.

 

8)

Edited by Astral Monk
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Theres also level-appropriate considerations. Ppl have expectations that more specific and focussed things need to be going on when theyre not at the need-to-know level. Go into a taiji class and ask about breathing, they might tell you to keep doing it, lol, nothing special more. And then, over time, keep a watch on your body and its states, before, during, and after practice. You might find a natural segue into deeper breathing or a need to focus on one part of the body.

 

Ultimately, teachers are the traditional feedback system in this case. Even if you see them very infrequently. They just nudge a little to keep you in the right direction. Without that, its all jungles and machettes and no compass!

 

8)

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22 hours ago, Trunk said:

 

Art.

 

Occasionally, after practice, when you feel inspired...

Paint what you *feel* in your body.

 

You'll find that the process of painting helps you clarify, uncover, excavate, what you feel.  Meaning, you probably won't have an entire idea of what you are going to paint...  The process of painting, itself, reveals the picture.  You'll be surprised at what comes out.  It provides an external feedback, you can look at it.  Then do it again weeks or months later: you will see changes in the painting that very often correspond to the progression of the practice you are doing.

 

Materials?  I suggest:

1. A brush pen.  You can get one for less than $10.

2. If you're into color, a Crayola Watercolor set, again, < $10.

3. A journal that has watercolor-quality pages, so that you can use it as both a written journal and a sketch~paint journal.

4. The Sumi-E Book teaches brush technique, and the brush (with just a little training) can allow a poor untalented schmuck of a not-at-all-an-artist to make rather beautiful strokes.

 

Some of my own personal art is at https://invisiblewell.wordpress.com/ .

 

journalart-two-decades-and-change.jpg

 

003-tchup-cr.jpg

 

 

I do publish some (free) essays re: the internal arts at https://johndaoproductions.wordpress.com/ .

I have an upcoming essay entitled (something like) "Art Therapy for Mystics".  If you want to be notified when it gets posted either follow my wordpress site or follow my JDP thread here on TDBs.

 

 I was decades into my practices before I discovered how utilitarian painting could be.  It is something that would have been useful from the very beginning.

 

- Trunk

 

Wonderful point and thank you for sharing your play (trying to get away from the idea of art as work).

 

Creativity is another “measure” or form of feedback for of my progress. The more open and connected I am to the source, the more I feel and manifest spontaneity and creativity. And I don’t mean just in terms of drawing, painting, music, writing, etc... Anything can be creative - solutions to problems, spontaneous interaction with a loved one, an unexpected friendly gesture to a coworker... anything.

 

 

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I generally just go by how calm and present I feel. How quiet my mind is. And the general progression is forward, even though sometimes it appears it moves backwards - it never really does. There’s always contraction before expansion. I try to Accept the negative stuff as a way of making me grow, even when some days feels like i can’t get anything right. 😊

 

 

Edited by Fa Xin
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On 13/02/2019 at 2:42 PM, Astral Monk said:

 

Looks like you have your answer. Ask your disembodied spirits for feedback then and recommend to your friend. Why ask the question in the first place? 

 

8)

 

Aren't you confusing me with the topic's author ? I'm not the one who asked. I was giving feedback about my system, not asking people to give me feedback about it.

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On 11/02/2019 at 6:19 PM, ben kaf said:

If you have tips or personal experiences from your early stages of your practice I'm very eager to hear...

 

 @Astral Monk, this is the question the topic's author made. He is asking us about feedback we have about OUR own systems. Not posting so people give feedback about other people's systems.

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5 hours ago, Desmonddf said:

 

 @Astral Monk, this is the question the topic's author made. He is asking us about feedback we have about OUR own systems. Not posting so people give feedback about other people's systems.

I thought he meant a system that includes some kindof feedback mechanism so you know how to measure your progress...like a qigong fitbit  

 

:huh:

Edited by Astral Monk

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5 hours ago, Desmonddf said:

 

Aren't you confusing me with the topic's author ? I'm not the one who asked. I was giving feedback about my system, not asking people to give me feedback about it.

My bad, i think thats it, sorry! Ahah well in that case, i reckon spirits might be a way of measuring progress, if they have useful things to say...some systems/practices seemto suggest as much!

 

8)

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I think that if the OP can’t even follow up on his own post and discuss the feedback people have already given, he’s not likely to get far. Whether with a teacher or not.

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On 2/12/2019 at 4:27 PM, freeform said:

 

What country?

If you must know please sent me a private message but let us not go into it here. Because it's a complicated matter and I think it needs another topic. just trust me in this. In my country tai chi is taught very limited and as a sport. no talk of energy, tao philosophy, etc. is allowed.

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On 2/13/2019 at 1:17 AM, Gerard said:

1. Then go/travel to where the master is. It has been done countless times (myself included). I don't live in the country where I was born and raised. I left alone with an airfare and luggage 21 years ago. Best decision I did in my entire life. 

I tried it before but it didn't work and it's not possible right now. But I'm happy that it worked for you..

 

On 2/13/2019 at 1:17 AM, Gerard said:

Read the following file very carefully. It will further explain what I stated above.



 



https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/35465-favorite-bagua-resources-books-teachers-videos-etc/?do=findComment&comment=591127 (Bagua, life and the mind).

Ok, I'll read it possibly tomorrow then I'll comment.

 

On 2/13/2019 at 1:17 AM, Gerard said:

3. What were you expecting? Automatic healing and in-depth learning over the Internet? The Internet is only a place to connect and find information. And that's about it. So please let's be serious.

I am serious and I'm not expecting any of the above. I'm ready to do my part. I just expect some ideas or hints to improve my practice. I guess internet is just another mean of connecting with like minded people and based on the nature of relationship and the person you're connecting with, it could be deep or shallow just as any real life human interaction..maybe just on the internet fake masters are much more than real life because it is easier to make fake IDs and fool around.

Edited by ben kaf

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On 2/13/2019 at 1:48 AM, rideforever said:

Why are you opening your arms to embrace everything ?   Are you not aware of what goes on on this planet ?

Do you want a free hug? ^_^:wub:

On 2/13/2019 at 1:48 AM, rideforever said:

As for feedback system, yes it's called being intelligent.  You walk into a door and you say "that's not very good, I'll try not to do that again".

I'm not sure if I made it clear or not. But as I might agree practicing chi qong is not like entering a door and you don't know immeditaly if your in the right place or not. so an effective feedback system can actually be very useful. Does it make any sense?

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