Three Gunas in Taoism?

[tumoessence]

Is there an equivalent term for the Three Gunas from Yoga and  Ayurveda in Taoist medicine and Nei Gong or Qi Gong?

[voidisyinyang]

On 1/27/2019 at 1:13 PM, tumoessence said:

Is there an equivalent term for the Three Gunas from Yoga and  Ayurveda in Taoist medicine and Nei Gong or Qi Gong?

Sattva is Emptiness. Rajas is Yang. Tamas is Yin. They both originate from music theory. So Rajas is the Perfect Fifth as yang. Sattva is the Octave as the Emptiness. Tamas as the Perfect Fourth as yin. All human cultures use the Octave, Perfect Fourth and PErfect Fifth as 1:2:3:4. I have documented the above with references - you can see on my link below.

[yuuichi]

20 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

All human cultures use the Octave

 

I thought most human cultures use 5 tones, not 7.

[voidisyinyang]

On 1/29/2019 at 6:48 PM, yuuichi said:

 

I thought most human cultures use 5 tones, not 7.

yes the five tones are from the Octave, Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth as 1:2:3:4.

So in fact no matter what number of musical tones are in a scale - they are all built from the Octave/Perfect Fifth/Perfect Fourth but it's ONLY in the West that these complementary opposite harmonics were "compromised" into symmetric Platonic geometric magnitude math (from Archytas, Philolaus and Euxodus).

I'll give you an example on the Chinese five tones as yin-yang - It's on my blog somewhere.

 

OK so first of all in India music tuning - they recognize the secret meaning of Non-Dual is not some Western Oneness but rather quite literally "not-two."

 

 

So if you look at the 3 in this image - the Perfect Fifth is an F and a G at the same time as non-local non-dualism or the "three in one" unity of the three gunas.

Each of the 12 harmonic notes of the Chinese alchemical music scale are Qi nodes, just as in Kriya yoga, as a month of the Solar Year (the Perfect Single Yang as Perfect Fifth infinite spiral) The Yellow Emperor, Huang Ti, in 2700 BCE, told Ling Lun to create the “infinite spiral of fifths” music tuning based on the Perfect Fourth music interval as yin and the Perfect Fifth musical interval as yang, according to the 240 BCE book, Lü-shih ch’un-ch’iu (
The Spring and Autumn of Lü Pu-Wei

Yang pipe became Yin, and by “increasing” the Yin pipe  

was transformed into Yang. 
In the first case, the result was a downward generation,  

and in the second, an upward 
one. Thus we find a continuous process of generation,  

with continuous exchanges of qualities 

 

 

 

between Yang and Yin, making clear the dynamic  

characteristics of the 
procedure followed. 

Each of the 12 lUlU [pipes of Perfect Fifth/Fourth] were  

assigned a hou [climatic season] chosen among the 24 
jieqi [solar terms]. For example, Huangzhong  

corresponded to Dongzhi [winter 
solstice]; Linzhong recalled the Dashu [great heat] 

 and so on. Furthermore, the 
figure indicates, together with the names of the lUlU,  

the 12 dizhi [earthly branches] 
in their relative order. Thus the first lUlU corresponds 

 to the first dizhi, that is to say 
Zi [son] and so on. The dizhi were also used to indicate  

couples of hours during 
the day; for example, Zishi [time of the son] indicates 

the hours from 1 1.00 p.m. to 
1.00 a.m., and the other dizhi follow the order of the hours

 

 

That is the secret of non-commutative phase logic. This was covered-up by Western symmetric math.

 

Quote

The Veena with 24 frets is the spine as prana energy tuned by the three gunas: Octave (sattva), Perfect Fifth (rajas), Perfect Fourth (tamas). As Yogananda describes Kriya Yoga, “The Kriya Yogi mentally directs his life energy to revolve, upward and downward, around the six spinal centers (medullary, cervical, dorsal, lumbar, sacral, and coccygeal plexuses) which correspond to thetwelve astral signs of the zodiac, the symbolic Cosmic Man. One half-minute of revolution of energy around the sensitive spinal cord of man effects subtle progress in his evolution; that half-minute of Kriya equals one year of natural spiritual unfoldment.” Ref: Sriranga sadguru in “Amaravani” “The 24 frets of the (Veena) instrument are analogous to the 24 cartilages in the spinal cord. The number 24 also relates to the 24 syllables in the Vedic Gayatri mantra.”

Acoustic engineer and Vedic sound expert, Dr. M.G. Prasad.  music Veena as the spinal harmonics energy:

 

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by voidisyinyang

[voidisyinyang]

On 1/29/2019 at 6:48 PM, yuuichi said:

 

I thought most human cultures use 5 tones, not 7.

Tamasika Ahankara is the origin of five gross elements. Ether originated in Tamasika Ahankara with Sound as its subtle form.

The Five Elements: Ether in Ayurveda | CA College of Ayurveda

www.ayurvedacollege.com/articles/drhalpern/ether

It comes first because it is the most subtle of the elements. Often referred to as “space,” it is the essence of emptiness. It is the space the other elements fill. The origin of ether is shabda. Shabda is the tanmatra of sound, meaning that shabda is sound in its primordial, unmanifested form.

The Vibrating Universe - Page 144 - Google Books Result

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=8120812913

Nr̥siṃhacaraṇa Paṇḍā - 1995 - ‎Philosophy

 

Quote

 

The ego (ahankara) evolves out of Reason. Depending upon the dominance of one of the three constituents (gunas), we get three kinds of ego, viz., sdttvika ahankara, rajasika ahankara and tamasika ahankara. From ego proceed two parallel series of evolutes — internal and external. The five conative organs and the mind ...

The Reality is one and only one that always remains unmanifested and unperceived, although not unexperienced. The power of the Reality manifests through the plurality of the pheno-menal universe - Maya or Prakrti is constituted of three strings (sattva, rajas and tamas) [Octave, Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth] that vibrate to produce the pluralistic, phenomenal ...

 

 When the three gunas, viz., sattva. rajas and tamas [Octave, Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth] are equipoised (in equilibrium, in sdmydvastha), they are collectively called prakrti, which is itself a tattva (having no tattva). 

Prakrti is the three gunas, having no gunas.

 

and

 

Quote

 

Maya, the material Nature, (mulaprakrti), consisting of three strings [Octave, Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth] belongs to Vishnu (God). This power of becoming (prakrti) is Divine (vaisnavi) [Divine etymololgy means "to shine"].

Maya, belonging to Isvara, is the power of becoming (prakrti), due to which all types of modifications take place. [Ishwara is the Spiritual Ego of the Universe aka Jesus or Krishna, the Sun as the Blue Light, the reflection of the reverse time as formless awareness]

Isvara (God) is the Great Musician. His musicial instrument or the Vinya is Maya with three strings - sattva, rajas, and tamas [Octave, Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth].

When these three gunas are in equipoised, prakrti remains in a dormant state or quiescent state.

 

The three strings [Octave, Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth] of Shakti vibrate in various combinations and permutations. As a result prana, a product of Shakti or Maya (a cosmic vitalizing principle) pulsates.

Prana is Qi - again the secret is the "three strings."
 

The Mystery of Vibrationless-Vibration in Kashmir Shaivism ...

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/.../the-mystery-of-vibrationless-vibration-in-kashmir...

Apr 30, 2016 - A central theme of the philosophy of Kashmir Shaivism is the highly esoteric principal known as spanda. Swami Lakshmanjoo tells us that the word 'spanda' means established stable movement. That is, it is movementless-movement, vibrationless-vibration. It is this secret, mysterious and yet essential ...

This is noncommutative phase as the 5th dimension!

Ouspensky Today - The law of three is represented in the Vedanta by the concept of the three 'gunas' or qualities, ('guna' means literally, 'a string or a rope') which together create, sustain and finally eliminate the illusion of Maya, the universe as we subjectively perceive it. These three strings vibrating together create the ..

OK I'll still find the quote I was looking for...

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by voidisyinyang

[voidisyinyang]

On 1/29/2019 at 6:48 PM, yuuichi said:

 

I thought most human cultures use 5 tones, not 7.

Still have not found that quote I was thinking of but in the mean time:

 

 

So this shows how the "seven" note scale actually was from HIDING the three gunas or complementary opposites inversion of the 2/3 into 4/3 - that's why the "X" has to be used. Instead of a QI energy source that is non-material - the West assumes X is geometric magnetic with time as a physical spatial parameter.

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

On 1/29/2019 at 6:48 PM, yuuichi said:

 

I thought most human cultures use 5 tones, not 7.

I think it's in my most recent free pdf = nope - but there is a quote in there on the India music scale. I can't "cut and paste" from a pdf onto this site (like I used to be able to do). So you have to word search the pdf - just search Indian or scale

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2018/03/17/ancient-advanced-acoustic-alchemy/

 

 

I'm getting close...

Quote

So Lui (呂) is the character meaning spinal column, hence, it is directly related to our subject. This character has one more interesting meaning ‘ ‘frets’ (of musical instruments) (1,5,6), the construction of which is similar with that of the spinal column. We should also mention that Chinese musical scale is also called Liu Liu (呂律),

 

still haven't found it yet.. but here:

 

So for example in the book Foundations of Internal Alchemy: The Taoist Practice of Neidan

 we find, on page 130, Table 6: Sovereign Hexagrams" stating
 

Quote

Quote

the twelve "sovereign hexagrams" (biguas) and their relation to other duodenary series: earthly branches, bells and pitch-pipes, months of the year, and "double hours"

Edited January 31, 2019 by voidisyinyang

[voidisyinyang]

https://ecoechoinvasives.blogspot.com/2018/03/musical-irrational-magnitude-error-of.html

 

OK scroll down on that blog post - I have a copied image from Alain Danielou on the three gunas and yin-yang-Emptiness as music theory. i can't copy it here - again it's a cut and paste image from a pdf.

[voidisyinyang]

On 1/29/2019 at 6:48 PM, yuuichi said:

 

I thought most human cultures use 5 tones, not 7.

https://elixirfield.blogspot.com/2018/06/why-hertz-hurtz-as-ditonic-comma-lie.html

 

OK finally - here it is.  so I explain -  or quote:

Quote

 Notice that the ratios of this pentatonic scale originate in the first five tones of the up-and-down principle of scale generation; that is, 1/1 or do is kung, 3/2 or sol is chih, 9/8 or re is shang, 27/16 or la is yü, and 81/64 or mi is chiao

 

[dwai]

On 1/27/2019 at 1:13 PM, tumoessence said:

Is there an equivalent term for the Three Gunas from Yoga and  Ayurveda in Taoist medicine and Nei Gong or Qi Gong?

The closest I've come to the gunas in Daoist tradition is (and its my personal opinion, fwiw) --

• Rajas - Yang
• Tamas - Yin
• Sattva - Balance between yin-yang

 

[voidisyinyang]

11 hours ago, dwai said:

The closest I've come to the gunas in Daoist tradition is (and its my personal opinion, fwiw) --

• Rajas - Yang
• Tamas - Yin
• Sattva - Balance between yin-yang

 

 

Slavoj Zizek made the mistake, back in the early 90s, of dismissing New Ageism as based on Harmony as a false believe of "balance." So I wrote a 1996 essay critiquing Zizek - stating he didn't really understand music theory and so therefore he misunderstood nonwestern philosophy. I sent it to him and he responded with a postcard, "After a quick glance it looks very interesting. I'll read it and get back to you." Instead his answer was his 1997 book called "The Plague of Fantasies." This was his "strawman argument" against my critique of him. He just doubled down on his claim of the New Age view being this false sense of balance.

 

Unfortunately this error of balance is deep on Western philososphy - built into the wrong music theory creating irrational geometric magnitude math. So as math professor Abraham Seidenberg points out - it originates from the Zoroastrian and Vedic math - to center the wheel of the chariot. So the word balance has that meaning as  "ákṣa" based on a chariot axle.

 

But in reality the "three  gunas" are older than the Vedic philosophy and so are from nonwestern music theory. Here is the proper definition of "balance" as the three gunas:

 

Quote

During the potential condition of Prakrti (Cosmic Substance) the three Gunas are in a state of constant motion within themselves without affecting one another. This inherent subtle movement is the nature of the Gunas and exists without effecting any objective result. Because of this inherent movement, no external cause is neces-sary to upset this triune state of balance.

https://archive.org/stream/hinduphilosophy029319mbp/hinduphilosophy029319mbp_djvu.txt

 

And this is explained through basic nonwestern music theory - but we call get brainwashed by the square root of two that is taught in Western math-philosophy from the wrong music theory.

 

So the paradox is that Rajas as Yang Qi is actually 2/3 and 3/2 at the same time - as C to F subharmonic and C to G overtone harmonic. This creates a NEW octave with the 1 as the 3 now - called in music theory the "Phantom Tonic." This is what Ramana Maharshi calls the "three in one unity." In science it's called "time-frequency uncertainty" - actually Sri Aurobindo recognized this paradox of meditation as being the same as found in quantum physics also. But since Aurobindo took on the Freemasonry or "external path" as Vivekananda called it - then the UNESCO yoga philosophy was subsumed into Western "Golden Ratio" Platonic ideology based on symmetric "balance." haha.

 

And so the "balance" is actually what is called the "three gunas of NO guna" as an eternal process of time that we can logically infer (but not visually see as say the center of the chariot wheel).

 

This "Three gunas of No  Guna" is from music theory. I'll get the reference.

 

The Vibrating Universe - Page 144 - Google Books Result

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=8120812913

Nr̥siṃhacaraṇa Paṇḍā - 1995 - ‎Philosophy

 

 

  Quote

 

 

Quote

 

Isvara (God) is the Great Musician. His musicial instrument or the Vinya is Maya with three strings - sattva, rajas, and tamas [Octave, Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth].

When these three gunas are in equipoised, prakrti remains in a dormant state or quiescent state.

Prakrti is the three gunas, having no gunas.

 

 

p. 17

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by voidisyinyang

[EmeraldHead]

that's nonsense. The three gunas have different compositions of yin yang. Sattva is the most yang.  If yinyang balanced formed a specific 3rd quality or emptiness was an actual another principle then taoism would have told us about it in clear terms!

[Nungali]

The Tao begot one.
One begot two.
Two begot three.
And three begot the ten thousand things.

 

To me that is the principle of 3 in Daoism. The 3 Gunas are the principle of 3 in Vedanta . ' Deity ' - God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is the principle of 3 in Christian divinity .

 

Of course we are not going to find the 3 Gunas in Christianity or Daoism , just as we will not find a Christian 3 phase divinity in Daoism .

 

But for those that study  all systems, they will observe certain 'Universal Principles' ... or perhaps I should say  ' Archetypal Principles ' that are expressed in different cultural clothing AND express various phases of these principles .

 

The ' Three Gunas'  in Physics ;    Strong Force, Weak Force and Electromagnetic Force; in alchemy ; sulphur salt and mercury : in astrology  (personal )  Mercury Venus Mars  ( extra personal / archetypal )  Neptune Uranus Pluto

 

The 'Key' to these principles is understanding how hey manifest in variation and difference in different situations .

 

 

[EmeraldHead]

10 hours ago, Nungali said:

Of course we are not going to find the 3 Gunas in Christianity or Daoism

The gunas are fundamental. We don't find the 5 pranamaya vayus in Daoism, but they surely are very tangible and will be found by the cultivator on his path. That is, if he builds real juice in real amounts. An advanced cultivator that comes from the Daoist background would know how to speak the 3 gunas in Daoist terms.

 

10 hours ago, Nungali said:

The ' Three Gunas'  in Physics ;    Strong Force, Weak Force and Electromagnetic Force;

Those are due to change as time move on!

[dwai]

On 5/18/2020 at 6:51 PM, EmeraldHead said:

that's nonsense. The three gunas have different compositions of yin yang. Sattva is the most yang.  If yinyang balanced formed a specific 3rd quality or emptiness was an actual another principle then taoism would have told us about it in clear terms!

It was my personal opinion entirely...  

[SirPalomides]

I wonder how much, if any, this has in common with the Platonic theory of soul (which was inherited in Christian spirituality).

[Nungali]

13 hours ago, EmeraldHead said:

The gunas are fundamental. We don't find the 5 pranamaya vayus in Daoism, but they surely are very tangible and will be found by the cultivator on his path. That is, if he builds real juice in real amounts. An advanced cultivator that comes from the Daoist background would know how to speak the 3 gunas in Daoist terms.

 

Those are due to change as time move on!

 

Could you explain the bolded bit please .

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

I wonder how much, if any, this has in common with the Platonic theory of soul (which was inherited in Christian spirituality).

 

That's the principle of three in Platonic philosophy   

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, dwai said:

It was my personal opinion entirely...  

 

I also see it .  Eg ;   Ch 42.

 

 

On 19/05/2020 at 9:51 AM, EmeraldHead said:

that's nonsense. The three gunas have different compositions of yin yang. Sattva is the most yang.  If yinyang balanced formed a specific 3rd quality or emptiness was an actual another principle then taoism would have told us about it in clear terms!

 

Why is it 'nonsense ' ?    Your explanation seems faulty  ;   '  Yang ' is also the most yang ( have you noticed the area of yin within it ?). Same as yin , it has  yang within it .  Similar to how rajas and tamas  have mixed yin yang qualities  but one is more yin or yang than the other .   Sattva is going to have  both 'yin and yang ' as it is the mediating principle between two polarities .

 

The clear terms you mention I see as very clearly and simply expressed in Ch 42

[forestofemptiness]

The answer may be in this book. I picked it up some years on kindle ago but never read it. 

 

https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Shape-of-Ancient-Thought/Thomas-McEvilley/9781581152036

 

20 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

I wonder how much, if any, this has in common with the Platonic theory of soul (which was inherited in Christian spirituality).