China Taoist Association Response - Wang Liping

[dao zhen]

[Oolong Rabbit]

Thanks for shedding some light on this Dao Zhen. The pictures you uploaded were also terrific. It's great to have someone who is connected with the traditional Chinese daoist community on the forum. For what it's worth, I read somewhere that the author of Opening the Dragon Gate was one of Liping's students and embellished it quite a bit.

 

BTW Were you the caucasian guy in one of the photos ?

[gendao]

Yea, great pics and contributions, Dao Zhen!

 

The main visual difference that I noticed between temple Daoists and Buddhists in China was that the Daoists all had long hair and beards...while Buddhists had shaved heads and no beards.

[Taoist81]

 

The goal of the association is to:

 

~ To help Chinese government carry out the policy of religious freedom.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....Carry out...HA...religious freedom..ha..ha,..... It actually would be funny if it weren't so sad how opposed to freedom, especially of religion, the "People's" "Republic" of China is....

[dao zhen]

Thank you all for your comments.

 

I will try and post more photographs and essay, but the conection is sometimes slow here.

 

I think on the one hand lineage is silly.

 

If you meet a teacher who can share truth and practice, it is wonderful, and does not matter if it is a formal lineage or not.

 

Truth is truth.

 

I do not wish to insult or start any fight here.

 

I respect Wang Liping, and all teachers and lineage.

 

But I do not wish to stand by while people say things I know are not true.

 

I just contacted White Cloud Temple in order to put some clarification on the statements being made which seemed by my observation to be painting a very impresive picture which in the end has the goal of seeking members for high monatary gain; members who have no real knowledge or experience with China Daoism, and what is going on here.

 

On the government.

 

I am a natural born rebel, and do not support the government in any form.

 

Yet we can think that in the 50's monks were not allowed to live and practice in temples that had histories stretching back of continuous practice 1,000's of years.

 

I view the Daoists as just being quiet, and slowly making a stand for places that they feel are a part of their heritage, birthright, and tradition.

 

The government is actually putting money into temples and promotion of Daoism in China - with the sick aim of tourism!

 

They have government staff selling entrance tickets to most temples, and I am not sure where it will all end up.

 

The government agency on Wudang recently put music speakers all over the hills of Wudang so they can pipe in music there for the tourists - I held a public demonstration there and got them to turn the music off for a time.

 

Imagine a small group of foreigners marching into their office shouting in Chinese' "Bu How Ting!" = "Sounds Terrible!"

 

The government officer went white, and looked quite scared.....and quickly turned the music off..........

 

The real places of training are hidden Dao Guan - or Remote Taoist Training Centers.

 

Places in remote areas and small groups of students and teacher train seriously.

 

Yet the famous temples are really beautiful, and interesting if you like the history of this tradition.

 

The Taoists that I have met who are serious about practice usually live in a city, or rent a small room somewhere in a remote country town.

 

I met one Taoist here in Wudang who was homeless, and she had an amazing knowledge of Alchemy......

 

She slept on the street on a small cardboard box.

 

We used to eat dinner together cooking on stacked bricks in the parking lot of an old ruined apartment building, she would break off sticks of dry bamboo, and light them to heat the food........

 

That night, she asked me about my Alchemy practice, and her knowledge of the states, experiences and theory really suprised me.

 

I asked her why she did not live in the temples on the mountain........

 

She replied, "Those people up there. They all have bad hearts!"

 

Hmmmmmmmm.........

 

Reminds me of a saying.........

 

The small Daoist hides in a temple.........

 

The Big Daoist lives in the noisy city............

 

But I am a romantic and love to visit temples; yet I live in the city.

 

Peace, dao zhen

[steve]

The other funny thing is the number of "Daoists" from Wudang now settling around the world to carry on their Daoist traditions. I think you need to take many of them with a grain of salt. Some may be legitimate, others are probably less so...

[gendao]

Is this Ren Farong?

[dao zhen]

Is this Ren Farong?

 

Thank you for your letter.

 

Yes, that is Da Sifu Ren Fa Rong.

 

He is a great scholar of the Tao Te Ching and it is held that the temple he is abbot of was the

place where the Tao Te Ching was composed by Lao Tzu.

 

He is one of a few Taoists still very active in the governing body who was trained from a very young age - pre-cultural revolution; I think when he was 7 years old or 9 he became a Taoist.

 

I visited there and stayed in the guest quarters in January.

 

It is a wonderful place, and very peaceful - though currently there is a government hotel project being built around the corner.

 

May I ask for a copy of that picture for my collection?

 

It is a very nice one.

 

Peace, dao zhen

 

 

 

 

The other funny thing is the number of "Daoists" from Wudang now settling around the world to carry on their Daoist traditions. I think you need to take many of them with a grain of salt. Some may be legitimate, others are probably less so...

 

I live in Wudang as I love the area, and have friends here.

 

It is a great town and a beautiful mountain.

 

Yes, more than a few of the "Taoists" here just do Kung Fu forms, and wear nice robes......

 

My main teachers are in Huahsan and in Qianshan in Liaoning.

 

Peace, dao zhen

[gendao]

May I ask for a copy of that picture for my collection?

 

Peace, dao zhen

I live in Wudang as I love the area, and have friends here.

 

It is a great town and a beautiful mountain.

 

Yes, more than a few of the "Taoists" here just do Kung Fu forms, and wear nice robes......

 

My main teachers are in Huahsan and in Qianshan in Liaoning.

 

Peace, dao zhen

Sure, just right-click on the picture there and save it.

 

Ah, I still haven't been to Wudangshan...but hope to one day. So, how long have you been training?

 

And here's another cool picture of a Buddhist, Taoist & Confucian...as they're about to walk into a bar...(J/K)

[rene]

dao zhen, thank you for your posts, they are very informative.

 

Rabbit? Vortex? Where in the forum are dao zhen's pictures you spoke of? I've been absent, I've looked, but to no avail. Thanks.

 

Edit: Found them in the Gallery.

Edited February 11, 2008 by hfd

[voidisyinyang]

Wow a foreigner protest of the government cranking bad music into the Taoist sacred mountain. That's an AMAZING story! Thanks for getting back on this question about people stating Master Wang controlling the CTA -- if the temples have bad people in them as Taoist monks supposedly, according to your friend, hmm makes you really wonder.... cool story about hanging with the homeless alchemist!

[dao zhen]

Want to come to Wudang?

 

Get a plane ticket and come.

 

I have a guest bedroom, and would love to show you around.

 

I began study when I was......14 or 15 with Taichi, Hsing-Yi, Pa-Kua and Martial Qigong - and after a year or so that teacher gave me some great books to read, and introduced me to basic Taoist Meditation; he was a great influence.

 

That was maybe 20 + some years ago.

 

I studied with the Wandering Taoist Kwan Saihung when I was 18 in San Francisco.......

 

and on and on........

 

I think I never really understood proper Taoist Cultivation till about 5 years ago when I met my current teacher here in China.

 

His teachings really opened my eyes, and presented practice and transformation I had not conceived of....

 

I am trying to gear up now to go and do a month long meditation training retreat in April in a remote cave on Huashan with a Taoist Uncle of mine - Teacher Yu Qing - Dao Ren

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=422

 

It is very wonderful to meet everyone, and be a part of this community.

 

Peace, dao zhen

[voidisyinyang]

If I remember correctly there was a book about Kwan Saihung -- a biography of life.

[dao zhen]

Wow a foreigner protest of the government cranking bad music into the Taoist sacred mountain. That's an AMAZING story! Thanks for getting back on this question about people stating Master Wang controlling the CTA -- if the temples have bad people in them as Taoist monks supposedly, according to your friend, hmm makes you really wonder.... cool story about hanging with the homeless alchemist!

 

Yes - it was fun .......

 

But they still have the speakers all over the mountain.......

 

There are bad people and good people in temples.........

 

Just like society.........

 

A lot of the taoists living in temples want to kick back, and not be a part of society.....

 

Then there are those who are serious and really practice.

 

When I was at Louguantai this January - where Sifu Ren Farong lives - his main student and I spent a lot of time together, and we were talking about meditation practice......

 

And he asked me how long I could sit quietly in silent meditation.

 

I have recently reached the point to sit for 2 hours, maybe 2.5 on a really good day.

 

He said..., "I sit in meditation 4 hours or more every night."

 

I was impressed........

 

Then he asked, "Are you in full lotus or half lotus."

 

I sit in half lotus.

 

He laughed.......

 

"Too easy!"

 

We went on to have a profound talk on practice and trancendence.

 

So there are people of high level in temples also.

 

Peace, dao zhen

[voidisyinyang]

Well if you do that month long training then you'll be able to transmit energy easily and heal others and sit in full-lotus as long as you want and probably even see inside other people's bodies so you can heal the source of their deep blockages, etc.

 

Anyway as for me traveling to China I'm practically homeless myself! I travel with the earth in resonance with the moon and the sun. And the center of the universe can not be known so travel....as qigong master Chunyi Lin states! ha.

[VCraigP]

 

I am trying to gear up now to go and do a month long meditation training retreat in April in a remote cave on Huashan with a Taoist Uncle of mine - Teacher Yu Qing - Dao Ren

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=422

 

It is very wonderful to meet everyone, and be a part of this community.

 

Peace, dao zhen

 

 

Thank you for your writings and your pictures.

 

Is the picture "Teacher Yu - Huashan Taoist" the man with whom you will be on retreat?

 

If so...wonderful. I had the opportunity to meet him in 2004 on Huashan. We was very kind to me. He has a wonderful loving presence, which was brought right back to me by seeing the picture again.

 

I hope to be in China for 3 weeks in April with my current teacher, including a brief visit to Huashan.

 

My Avatar (which is not a picture of me ) is a picture taken at Huashan.

 

Nice to have you here. Look forward to your further input, as time allows.

 

Craig

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Dao Zhen,

 

Thankyou for coming to this forum, i have a question for you about your training at Hua shan.

 

Are you a Lui He Ba Fa practitioner from Hua shan?

 

Also have you done any Daoist research at Wu Tai Shan as my system is from Wu Tai Shan but the keeper left and taught in hongkong and now Australia. So im trying to trace the art back if you know of it or heard anything similar i would be greatful to hear any comments good or bad. The system is called Hun Yuan Yi Qi Zhuang (Primoridial Chao One Qi Palm) cantonese Wun Yuen Yut Hei Jurng. It has been passed down orally with secret poems and transmissions apparently 2 disciples of Lao tzu created it. Its a beautiful system that talks of alchemy, and stuff like Dao Te Ching.

 

kindest regards

WYG

 

P.S do you have any pics of Wang Li Ping?

[Gerard]

The government is actually putting money into temples and promotion of Daoism in China - with the sick aim of tourism!

 

They have government staff selling entrance tickets to most temples, and I am not sure where it will all end up.

 

The government agency on Wudang recently put music speakers all over the hills of Wudang so they can pipe in music there for the tourists - I held a public demonstration there and got them to turn the music off for a time.

 

Imagine a small group of foreigners marching into their office shouting in Chinese' "Bu How Ting!" = "Sounds Terrible!"

 

The government officer went white, and looked quite scared.....and quickly turned the music off..........

 

The real places of training are hidden Dao Guan - or Remote Taoist Training Centers.

 

 

Not only that; they removed all the wandering taoists and homelesses that lived in Wudang shan (even one who practiced the wow of silence) and relocated them 1,000 km away. The funny thing is they ended up returning to the mountain. LOL!

 

The spiritual flame is inextinguishable.

[WhiteTiger]

Edited February 12, 2008 by WhiteTiger

[dao zhen]

Thank you for your writings and your pictures.

 

Is the picture "Teacher Yu - Huashan Taoist" the man with whom you will be on retreat?

 

If so...wonderful. I had the opportunity to meet him in 2004 on Huashan. We was very kind to me. He has a wonderful loving presence, which was brought right back to me by seeing the picture again.

 

I hope to be in China for 3 weeks in April with my current teacher, including a brief visit to Huashan.

 

My Avatar (which is not a picture of me ) is a picture taken at Huashan.

 

Nice to have you here. Look forward to your further input, as time allows.

 

Craig

 

Thank you for your letter.

 

Yes, Teacher Yu is a dear friend, and will aid me in my retreat.

 

He is a wonderful Taoist, and yes, he has a very pure heart.

 

I will be in Huasha in mid april, and try to maybe meet up with your group at the celebration for the new Lao Tzu center being founded......if time permits.

 

Peace, dao zhen

[dao zhen]

WhiteTiger' said:

Thanks very much Dao Zhen for coming to the forum and contributing. I personally really appreciate the help and thank you for sharing information. I would also enjoy hearing more .

I was hoping you could share what you learned under Kwan Saihung. I've heard some great praise about his meditation.

 

Thank you for your kindness.

 

Yes, Sifu Kwan was my first real Taoist teacher. I guess he is famous from his books. He was a serious teacher, and trained us very hard. I was 18 at the time. We did a lot of Taoist Yoga sets and Martial Arts to strengthen the body and build up the Kidney, also lessons in diet, lectures on Taoism theory, and he would sometimes advise students to take herbs if they had weakness, or the like.

 

He was very strong, and had a great stamina for his age of over 70 at that time.

 

Many say he is a fake, or the like - but from my experience he is a real teacher and pratitioner.

 

His system followed the idea to first train and purify the body to a high degree through Taoist Yoga, Qigong and Martial Arts, combined with sound diet. Then train the mind through philosophy, study and life experience. Then the final stage is meditation training.

 

I did not stay long term with him, but still train in his Taist Yoga daily to maintain the health of my body.

 

By my observation he seriously lives what he preaches, and was in vital health when I studied under him.

 

'WhiteTiger' said:

As my understanding the Dragon Gate Sect is a sect of complete Perfection and not Reality.

 

Quan Zhen Dao Jiao - Complete Perfection / Complete Reality Taoism

 

The Northern School of Quan Zhen was founded by Patriarch Wang Chongyang.

 

Wang Chongyang changed his given name to Zhiming when he became a Daoist. He was born into a rich family in Liujiang Village of Xianyang, Shanxi Province. Before he practiced Daoism, he was at first a Confucian scholar and then took the imperial provincial examination for military candidates in the early Jin Dynasty. He served as a petty government official for some time, but then felt officialdom was not the proper arena to display his talent. He therefore resigned from his post and returned home, his manners becoming all the more unconstrained and even unruly. In the fourth year of Emperor Zhenglong of the Jin Dynasty (AD 1138) when he came into a pub in Ganhe Township (now Guangxian County of Shanxi Province), he met Zhongli Quan and Lu Dongbin, the two immortals and learned from them the mnemonic rhyme of refining Golden Elixirs. He abandoned his wife and children and went to Nanshi Village near Mt Zhongnan. There he made a tomb as his dwelling place which was named "Tomb for a Living Dead Body".

 

Later he set out from Tongguan and begged his meals all the way to the east. When he came to Ninghai (now Mouping), Shandong Province, he met the Mas (Ma Jue and his wife Sun Bu'er) who built him a Daoist temple with the name of Quanzhen (Complete Perfection). Wang Chongyang began to teach Daoism to many people who were all called Complete Perfection Daoists.

 

You may read more about him here -

 

http://www.eng.taoism.org.hk/general-daois.../pg1-4-26-5.asp

 

'WhiteTiger' said:

My question would be why is Qui Yuanxing calling it the Dragon Gate Sect of Complete Reality of Taoism instead Dragon Gate Sect of Complete Perfection?

 

Dragon Gate Sect

 

The Dragon Gate Sect is a branch or sub-sect of the Complete Perfection or Quan Zhen Pai.

 

It was founded by the Patriarch Qiu Chuji

 

As a branch of the Complete Perfection sect, the Dragon Gate sect worshiped Qiu Chuji, one of the Seven Perfect Ones, as its founder. Because Qiu used to cultivate Dao as a hermit on Mt. Dragon Gate in Longzhou, the sect was called the Dragon Gate. After Wang Changyue spread the sect's religious ideology and accepted disciples at the White Cloud Temple and at places such as Nanjing, Hangzhou and Mt. Wudang, the Dragon Gate sect saw its revival and spread nationwide.

 

For more information visit here -

http://www.eng.taoism.org.hk/general-daois...s/pg1-3-22a.asp

 

 

Various Taoist Sects

 

 

The Pure Brightness Tradition

 

The Highest Clarity Sect

 

The Pristine Water Tradition

 

The Elixir Cauldron Sect

 

The Supreme Oneness Doctrine

 

The Numinous Treasure Sect

 

The Talismans and Registers Sect

 

The Master Yu Tradition

 

The Twofold Mystery School

 

 

For good information for details on these sects please visit here -

 

http://www.eng.taoism.org.hk/general-daois...cts/default.asp

 

Sincerely, dao zhen

[dao zhen]

Dao Zhen,

 

Thankyou for coming to this forum, i have a question for you about your training at Hua shan.

 

Are you a Lui He Ba Fa practitioner from Hua shan?

 

Also have you done any Daoist research at Wu Tai Shan as my system is from Wu Tai Shan but the keeper left and taught in hongkong and now Australia. So im trying to trace the art back if you know of it or heard anything similar i would be greatful to hear any comments good or bad. The system is called Hun Yuan Yi Qi Zhuang (Primoridial Chao One Qi Palm) cantonese Wun Yuen Yut Hei Jurng. It has been passed down orally with secret poems and transmissions apparently 2 disciples of Lao tzu created it. Its a beautiful system that talks of alchemy, and stuff like Dao Te Ching.

 

kindest regards

WYG

 

P.S do you have any pics of Wang Li Ping?

 

Thank you for your letter.

 

I do not practice any of the martial arts of Huashan.

 

I have done extensive MA training in the past, but now focus on meditation practice.

 

I was just in Wutaishan in January.

 

It was an amazing place, and so, so many different Buddhist traditions and different temples there.

 

It is considered the place where Buddhism first took root in China.

 

I am sorry, but I have no information on your system.

 

It sounds very interesting, good luck.

 

Sincerley, dao zhen

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Thankyou for taking the time to reply, u mentioned u met a Taoist Wizard in Huashan? Can you explain more about sleeping chi kung i find that is a high skill any pointers how one can learn this?

 

Is there any material on sleep med and chi kung?

 

WYG

 

I did read that Wu Tai Shan was a sacred Taoist mountain untill the Buddhist started and took over it, do you know Taoist sects belong at Mount Wu Tai?

 

sorry for the questions brother!

 

One

WYG

[dao zhen]

Thankyou for taking the time to reply, u mentioned u met a Taoist Wizard in Huashan? Can you explain more about sleeping chi kung i find that is a high skill any pointers how one can learn this?

 

Is there any material on sleep med and chi kung?

 

WYG

 

I did read that Wu Tai Shan was a sacred Taoist mountain untill the Buddhist started and took over it, do you know Taoist sects belong at Mount Wu Tai?

 

sorry for the questions brother!

 

One

WYG

 

Thank you for your letter.

 

I am going to try and post more materials in the articles sections for members here, and also am trying to gain some interviews with a taoist in China to give members some views there.

 

A lot of these practices are secret - or it is viewed that to learn them you must learn them face to face with a qualified teacher.

 

Generally the way I have been taught is first we begin the seated meditation practice.

 

In the first stages of seated practice we discipline the Heart-Mind.

 

This is the first and most important step.

 

Next stage is to begin the process of development within the Dantian, and also opening of the meridian system.

 

Next is the stage of refining the Jing back to Qi.

 

When I began the stage of refining Jing back to Qi my teacher started to teach practices to perform in sleep, and also certain postures to hold during sleep.

 

Also during this time, there is a certain skill or practice to "seal" or "secure" the Jing, wherby we develop an ability to seal the Hui Yin cavity, as this is usually the first cavity to "open", and it is also the place where we can encounter "trouble" such as allowing the Jing to change to a Turbid State and leak out.

 

As this level the condition is unstable, and it is quite common for the Jing to change to it's Turbid State, and be discharged in sleep in a noturnal emission - thus you go back and start from a lower level, letting the Jing build up to the level where there is actually something you may refine back into Qi.

 

It is natural for students to experience this a bit, until they can learn to "feel" what is going on, and secure the Jing, and create a stable environment.

 

Lifestyle plays a very important role in this stage.

 

Later at another stage we also engage in practice that is lying on the back, to alow the Qi to run through the entire meridian system......

 

It gets confusing, as many differnet sects and schools outline the stages and process with different terms, or with a different stress on key happenings.

 

Let this statement be burned into your memory:

 

The process of growth and development in Internal Alchemy is a natural one.

 

It is a natural process.

 

Know what is your work in preparation.

 

Know what is the work of Nature.

 

Gain the state of Stillness of the Heart-Mind, thus Tempering the False Heart.

 

Then the rest of the course is very easy to follow............

 

In Huashan, they have a type of practice that seems to be a Dream Yoga - whereby it seems the barrier that exists between the waking world and the dream world become quite thin.......

 

I briefly experienced some aspects of this in my recent trip, and it is interesting, but perhaps also a side track and a distraction to real Alchemy Practice.

 

Temper the False Nature and gain Stillness of the Heart-Mind.......

 

Sincerely, dao zhen

[sheng zhen]

P.S do you have any pics of Wang Li Ping?

Is this the guy?

 

Wang Liping

 

And isnt this your friend Dao Zhen? Looks like he has lots of humor

 

Dao Zhens friend

Edited February 12, 2008 by sheng zhen