Cheshire Cat Posted August 22, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Apech said: This thread has gone all Jesusy. Shame. Everything ends up in Jesus Spoiler Edited August 22, 2018 by Cheshire Cat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 22, 2018 15 minutes ago, Apech said: This thread has gone all Jesusy. Shame. Pay attention. You might learn something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted August 22, 2018 17 minutes ago, Apech said: This thread has gone all Jesusy. Shame. Actually, I thought Bindi brought up a very interesting point of thinking about Jesus as an immortal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 22, 2018 13 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said: let the infant return into the interior courtyard and the central palace But don't forget to let the child out to play now and again. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted August 22, 2018 Playfulness is a wonderful power. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted August 22, 2018 15 minutes ago, Jeff said: I whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. That seems very sad to me. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted August 22, 2018 11 minutes ago, Jeff said: I am not at all dismissing that it is possible to heal the body, but the gospels are clear about moving beyond the earthly focus of the body... 2 Corinthians 5 King James Version (KJV) 5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Aren’t Matthew, Mark, Luke and John the gospels? You keep quoting letters from Paul to support your opinion, while ignoring the actual gospels. Of course the spirit is important, but the spirit is housed in the body which is it’s temple. I think evolution of the spirit cannot occur outside of a physical body anyway, which necessitates having a physical incarnation and making the most of it while you’re here. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonesboy Posted August 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jeff said: Actually, I thought Bindi brought up a very interesting point of thinking about Jesus as an immortal. Care to share any similarities and differences on the realizations? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said: That seems very sad to me. Agree. That is not a good way to live one's life. Doesn't matter Christian or whatever. We have a physical life, it should be lived. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted August 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said: That seems very sad to me. Why? You find the same in most traditions... Know that the body is a fragile jar, And make a castle of your mind. In every trial Let understanding fight for you To defend what you have won. For soon the body is discarded, Then what does it feel? A useless log of wood, it lies on the ground, Then what does it know? - Dhammapada 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lost in Translation Posted August 22, 2018 The most well crafted ship and the most rickety ship both depend upon the same wind. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 22, 2018 Okay. But if we don't have a healthy body we have nothing to carry our brain around with. Keep the body healthy and the brain ( mind and spirit) will be healthy. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 22, 2018 Just now, Lost in Translation said: The most well crafted ship and the most rickety ship both depend upon the same wind. But the rickety ship will fall over in strong winds. (The Chinese found that out when they tried to conquer Japan.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted August 22, 2018 10 minutes ago, Marblehead said: Agree. That is not a good way to live one's life. Doesn't matter Christian or whatever. We have a physical life, it should be lived. I think you may be missing my point. Man follows earth, earth follows heaven, heaven the Dao. It is about realizing the Dao, not being just focused on the body... Tao Te Ching - CHAPTER 13 Accept disgrace willingly. Accept misfortune as the human condition. What do I mean by "accept disgrace willingly?" Accept being unimportant. Do not be concerned with wealth, titles, loss or gain. If you are not concerned with these, you can always "accept disgrace willingly". What do I mean by "accept misfortune as the human condition?" Without a body, how could there be misfortune! For misfortune arises from having a body Surrender yourself humbly, then you can be trusted to care for all things. Love the world as your own self, then you can truly be trusted to care for all things. Focus on "healing" is not accepting or flowing with the Dao. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted August 22, 2018 My tradition rely on a physical comfortable place to be to do the work. Actually an exceptional state of well being is very important. It states in the classics when one sees their body as a piece of filth the spirit must be made to come back immediately. 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted August 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jeff said: I think you may be missing my point. Man follows earth, earth follows heaven, heaven the Dao. It is about realizing the Dao, not being just focused on the body... Tao Te Ching - CHAPTER 13 Accept disgrace willingly. Accept misfortune as the human condition. What do I mean by "accept disgrace willingly?" Accept being unimportant. Do not be concerned with wealth, titles, loss or gain. If you are not concerned with these, you can always "accept disgrace willingly". What do I mean by "accept misfortune as the human condition?" Without a body, how could there be misfortune! For misfortune arises from having a body Surrender yourself humbly, then you can be trusted to care for all things. Love the world as your own self, then you can truly be trusted to care for all things. Focus on "healing" is not accepting or flowing with the Dao. Thus it could be said neither Jesus nor the apostles flowed with the dao? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jeff said: I think you may be missing my point. Man follows earth, earth follows heaven, heaven the Dao. It is about realizing the Dao, not being just focused on the body... I acknowledge that this might be a possibility. But I suggest that if we keep our body healthy we will be free to venture into the Mystery (spiritual). Without a healthy body all we will be thinking about will be the pains we are experiencing from an unhealthy body. We will never have the clarity of mind to venture into the Mystery. So yes, we look at the processes of the living things on earth and try to follow the examples of those which are healthy. Then our mind can migrate into the Heavens and then return to the Oneness of Tao. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted August 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jeff said: I think you may be missing my point. Man follows earth, earth follows heaven, heaven the Dao. It is about realizing the Dao, not being just focused on the body... Tao Te Ching - CHAPTER 13 Accept disgrace willingly. Accept misfortune as the human condition. What do I mean by "accept disgrace willingly?" Accept being unimportant. Do not be concerned with wealth, titles, loss or gain. If you are not concerned with these, you can always "accept disgrace willingly". What do I mean by "accept misfortune as the human condition?" Without a body, how could there be misfortune! For misfortune arises from having a body Surrender yourself humbly, then you can be trusted to care for all things. Love the world as your own self, then you can truly be trusted to care for all things. Focus on "healing" is not accepting or flowing with the Dao. This has to do with mental stability take your worries away, look at the situation differently, find peace and playfulness, we are more than a temporary form we call body. our actual body we can also see in the heavenly body where does our body begin or end it is connected. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted August 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bindi said: Thus it could be said neither Jesus nor the apostles flowed with the dao? I dont see it that way, but are you now saying that you don't think Jesus was an Immortal? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 22, 2018 Just now, Jeff said: you don't think Jesus was an Immortal? But then, neither was Lao Tzu. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted August 22, 2018 30 minutes ago, Bindi said: Aren’t Matthew, Mark, Luke and John the gospels? You keep quoting letters from Paul to support your opinion, while ignoring the actual gospels. From an historical perspective, I think it's worth mentioning that Paul's letters were written long before the gospels... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted August 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, Marblehead said: But then, neither was Lao Tzu. I would have to disagree with you there. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Cheshire Cat said: From an historical perspective, I think it's worth mentioning that Paul's letters were written long before the gospels... Keep in mind that nearly all of the New Testament was dictated by Paul to the Greek scribes who wrote down what we now have as the New Testament. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Jeff said: I would have to disagree with you there. That's okay. I reserve the right to be wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted August 22, 2018 11 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said: This has to do with mental stability take your worries away, look at the situation differently, find peace and playfulness, we are more than a temporary form we call body. our actual body we can also see in the heavenly body where does our body begin or end it is connected. Agreed on more than the temporary form we call the body. From Chapter 45 of the Tao Te Ching... Resting still, the body is left in peace; great movement exhausts the body and fevers the mind. Stillness and tranquillity give a clear vision to the nature of all things. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
