Transgender Freshman Sprinter, Born a Male, wins Girls Championships

[Lost in Translation]

16 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

You are a little more open-minded than I am regarding this.

 

This train can't be stopped, but it can be steered. As Abraham Lincoln famously said, "Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?"

[Marblehead]

3 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

This train can't be stopped, but it can be steered. As Abraham Lincoln famously said, "Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?"

Well, I do agree with the second paragraph of your post.  So it's not all bad.

 

But to Abe's quote:  Yes, make your enemies your friends so they can get close to you and shoot you in the back.

 

[Lost in Translation]

7 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

But to Abe's quote:  Yes, make your enemies your friends so they can get close to you and shoot you in the back.

 

Never trust an actor...

 

[Marblehead]

It's sometimes hard to tell who is the actor and who is the audience.

 

[windwalker]

4 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

We need to be clear on this issue. Gender dysphoria, regardless of one's personal opinions, is a real thing. There are people who legitimately feel they were born into the wrong sex.

 

How about race.

 

Is black or white a choice, can one feel either one and make the changes to be so, will it be accepted. 

 

Let's see.

 

"For years, Rachel Dolezal led a secret life in the Pacific Northwest. Her friends believed she was a black woman with a passion for African-American issues. Others saw her as a vocal civil rights leader who later became the local N.A.A.C.P. president in Spokane, Wash"

 

Imagine,

 

if she would have been a white man transitioning to a black woman.

Would they acknowledge her as being a woman but still white ?

 

why is one accepted by some and the other not.

 

[Lost in Translation]

6 minutes ago, windwalker said:

How about race.

 

Is black or white a choice, can one feel either one and make the changes to be so, will it be accepted. 

 

This is a different topic. This topic is about transgender females (i.e. people born as male) competing in women's sports. Granted, it is a related topic and the patterns of thought are the same. Perhaps we can discuss the broader notion of "passing" for what you are not in another thread.

 

4 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

Gender dysphoria, regardless of one's personal opinions, is a real thing. There are people who legitimately feel they were born into the wrong sex.

 

I don't mean to imply that transgender females are actual females. They are not. I am however, stating that those rare cases of gender dysphoria are legitimate and worthy of acknowledgement. I am also stating that those males who genuinely wish to transition to female (and vice versa) are deserving of our courtesy and compassion unless they behave in a way to not warrant such respect.

 

 

[windwalker]

3 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

 compassion unless they behave in a way to not warrant such respect.

 

 

 

So you feel it's compassionate letting men who feel they are women compete in women sports.

 

you don't see any difference between people who change their features to fit in with a certain culture or race over men or women who feel they are the other sex and make changes to make it so.

 

There is no difference except one is acknowledged the other tends not to be.

 

 

Most people respect for them and understand but do not accept it as being normal. 

 

You speak of compassion what is your idea of compassion

 

Is allowing someone to mutilate their body take hormones being compassionate

 

How is competing in female sports with what is essentially a male body Fair.

 

Natural born females do not feel it's so and stated as such.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2018 by windwalker

[windwalker]

What if at some point in time they find out a part of the brain is damaged and by cutting it out it would allow them to resume normal lives in the sex they were born into.  

[Lost in Translation]

1 hour ago, windwalker said:

So you feel it's compassionate letting men who feel they are women compete in women sports

 

Find my comments on page 2 of this thread and re-read them.

[windwalker]

2 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

Find my comments on page 2 of this thread and re-read them.

 

how about just comment here and now....for a questions asked here and now.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by windwalker

[Lost in Translation]

1 minute ago, windwalker said:

 

how about just comment here and now....for a question that's asked here and now.

 

3 hours ago, windwalker said:

So you feel it's compassionate letting men who feel they are women compete in women sports.

 

 

TL/DR: No

 

I already answered this at length. If you don't care to read what I wrote then that is your choice.

[windwalker]

1 minute ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

 

TL/DR: No

 

I already answered this at length. If you don't care to read what I wrote then that is your choice.

 

It wasn't an answer,  if you don't want to or can't answer I understand.

 

That is your choice. 

 

Just illustrates about some who bring up issues, when pressed 

really don't have much to say....

 

carry on...

[Lost in Translation]

15 minutes ago, windwalker said:

It wasn't an answer,  if you don't want to or can't answer I understand.

 

Fine, we'll play this game.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, windwalker said:

So you feel it's compassionate letting men who feel they are women compete in women sports.

 

On 8/14/2018 at 4:36 PM, Lost in Translation said:

But seriously, it's one thing how you want to be treated on your own time in your own private life. It's something else when your choices deleteriously affect others. For example, you feel you are a women in a man's body and want to transition? God bless you. I hope you find happiness. But if you want to use your male physique to gain advantage in women's sports? Well, that's just bunk! What about all the biological women in sport? No one seems to care about them. It becomes a race to placate the very small exception at the expense of literally everyone else. That may sound good at first pass, but it quickly becomes absurd.

 

On 8/14/2018 at 1:44 PM, Lost in Translation said:

This trend has only one effect: It ruins women's sports. If this is allowed to continue soon there will be very few women in sports. I hope the 'feminists' are proud of themselves for this regression in sportsmanship.

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, windwalker said:

you don't see any difference between people who change their features to fit in with a certain culture or race over men or women who feel they are the other sex and make changes to make it so.

 

7 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

it is a related topic and the patterns of thought are the same. Perhaps we can discuss the broader notion of "passing" for what you are not in another thread.

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, windwalker said:

You speak of compassion what is your idea of compassion

 

On 8/14/2018 at 4:36 PM, Lost in Translation said:

you feel you are a women in a man's body and want to transition? God bless you. I hope you find happiness.

 

7 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

I am however, stating that those rare cases of gender dysphoria are legitimate and worthy of acknowledgement. I am also stating that those males who genuinely wish to transition to female (and vice versa) are deserving of our courtesy and compassion unless they behave in a way to not warrant such respect.

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, windwalker said:

Is allowing someone to mutilate their body take hormones being compassionate

 

I don't care what an adult of legal age and sound mind chooses to do with their own body as long as they do not expect me to pay for it. 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, windwalker said:

How is competing in female sports with what is essentially a male body Fair.

 

Natural born females do not feel it's so and stated as such.

 

This is the same as your first question only worded differently. I'll include my response here again as a courtesy.

 

On 8/14/2018 at 4:36 PM, Lost in Translation said:

But seriously, it's one thing how you want to be treated on your own time in your own private life. It's something else when your choices deleteriously affect others. For example, you feel you are a women in a man's body and want to transition? God bless you. I hope you find happiness. But if you want to use your male physique to gain advantage in women's sports? Well, that's just bunk! What about all the biological women in sport? No one seems to care about them. It becomes a race to placate the very small exception at the expense of literally everyone else. That may sound good at first pass, but it quickly becomes absurd.

 

On 8/14/2018 at 1:44 PM, Lost in Translation said:

This trend has only one effect: It ruins women's sports. If this is allowed to continue soon there will be very few women in sports. I hope the 'feminists' are proud of themselves for this regression in sportsmanship.

 

 

 

 

Please let me know if this answer is not to your satisfaction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[windwalker]

5 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

Fine, we'll play this game.

 

It's not a game it's a discussion.  On some points we agree, on others we don't.  

 

the main point just like President Obama tried to do with transgenders in the military.

 

some are attempting to enginer a societal change regardless of outcome.

 

For whatever reason those with true gender  dysphoria have a problem that science has not yet identified a causeitve agent for.

 

Whatever is done to help them maintain the fiction in my mind is not being very compassionate.

 

In Buddhist thought in their past lives they must have done something and are paying for it in their present life.  

 

The point about racial or group identification and changes made to fit in with the groups by those not genetically Born Into the group is the same.

 

How they are viewed is different.

In each case there are certain benefits derived from being in the group.

 

Which cast despersion of those who truly feel they are  part of that group although not born into it.

 

In Thailand they have many what they call   Kathoey  or ladyboys.  Many are transgender and get the total change.  Which after  then go to work in the sex business. Or in some cases 

 

 

Quote

 

"In 1999, Nong Toom caused considerable publicity by announcing her retirement from kick boxing, her intention to become a singer, and her plan to undergo sex reassignment surgery. She was initially turned down by some of the Bangkok surgeons she turned to, but was able to undergo the sex-change surgery in 1999 at Yanhee International Hospital."

The the difference being in this case although he felt he was a woman he fought and in the mens division with a man's body.

 

 

 

This this is not the case in the West where you have what are essentially male bodies being used in women's sports. 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by windwalker

[ilumairen]

12 hours ago, windwalker said:

 

It wasn't an answer,  if you don't want to or can't answer I understand.

 

That is your choice. 

 

Just illustrates about some who bring up issues, when pressed 

really don't have much to say....

 

carry on...

 

What a bunch of tripe. The information you were looking for had already been provided, and this is just plain rude.

 

"carry on..."

[Lost in Translation]

10 hours ago, windwalker said:

For whatever reason those with true gender  dysphoria have a problem that science has not yet identified a causeitve agent for.

 

Whatever is done to help them maintain the fiction in my mind is not being very compassionate.

 

I see . You and I are essentially in agreement apropos transgender women in sports, Our difference of opinion lies in the societal reaction to transgenders. I accept that there are cases where the best option for a person suffering from gender dysphoria is gender reassignment. It seems you do not. This is fine. Now we understand each other.

[redcairo]

Yes, gender dysphoria is a real (and tragic) condition. But it IS a condition.

Taking female hormones that make a man weaker is not the same as being a woman.

So maybe your strength is equal. But everything else including the way muscles connect in some areas, including 'reach' which is a huge issue in fighting, have not changed.

 

The very definition of what the far-left (to including third-wave feminism, or pussyists as I call them -- their obsession with the term, not mine) is doing, aside from creating chaos in every possibly imaginable way, is to insist on all of society 'suffering for the sake of the minority' -- even if the minority is  point-zero-something % of the population. It is one thing to make allowances but even then, that happens for minorities of a dramatically larger quantity, such as 'disabled' across the board. It is another thing to actually do harm in one way or another to the vast-vast-majority.

 

Right now, the issue there is that trans women who are biologically men (except in the brain apparently) are, even with 'female hormones making them weaker,' simply superior in sport to actual biological women -- there are too few trans, and too many trans winning the very top of women's sports, to ignore this. Imagine the women who have dedicated their life, years, all their money, and more to pursuit of something, only to reach near the top -- and lose utterly to one more men who decided they were women and sports leagues are F'ing insane enough to go, "Oh, ok then!" instead of "Yeah, so compete against the men -- or, start a league for trans." The sheer unfairness and injustice of it is staggering.

 

And to anyone who says, "Oh but poor trans! They can't help feeling like a woman!" -- sure, I sympathize, I wish them the happiest life, but why should A TON OF PEOPLE be punished so 0.03% or whatever "get to play" in a given league even though they aren't properly qualified? Short people and women don't get to play NBA, people with any kind of physical/mental disease are usually precluded from a lot of stuff the 'normal' population does, so cry me a river, what makes trans so special beyond every other kind of human on earth, including those with disabilities and dysfunctions -- which gender dysphoria IS -- in far greater numbers than them?

 

So consider the trans in sports sitch we have right now.

And then consider how many lawsuits have succeeded in forcing the "qualifying merits" down down down even in life and death situations -- for soldiers, for police officers -- so women could get in "equally" (rather than just occasionally when exceptional), and then so race-X could get in "more equally" and so on.

 

It is only a matter of time until this same logic leads to that orwellian-situation (forget the author's name) where, in order to make "society equal," people had to wear all kinds of interfering things -- chains for the strong, mental-interruptors for the smart, etc. 

 

This pathological obsession with "equality of outcome" is an actual mental problem, and while people are welcome to have all the mental problems they want on their own time watching it mess up our country in so many ways is nauseating.

 

RC

[windwalker]

On 8/16/2018 at 10:40 PM, ilumairen said:

What a bunch of tripe. The information you were looking for had already been provided, and this is just plain rude.

 

Na being rude is interjecting yourself into a conversation you're not part of.

 

Carry on

[windwalker]

On 8/16/2018 at 11:59 PM, Lost in Translation said:

I accept that there are cases where the best option for a person suffering from gender dysphoria is gender reassignment. It seems you do not. This is fine. Now we understand each other.

 

 

Would you support this

"

Quote

 

Body integrity dysphoria (BID, also referred to as body integrity identity disorder, amputee identity disorder and xenomelia, formerly called apotemnophilia) is a disorder characterized by a desire to be disabled or discomfort with being able-bodied beginning in early adolescence and resulting in harmful consequences.^[1] BID appears to be related to somatoparaphrenia.^[2] People with this condition may refer to themselves as "transabled".^[3][4][5]

 

 

 

Should Medical Science be used to make them transabled.

 

Is this different from gender dysphoria.

[redcairo]

Gah, What IS it with the must have the last word thing. Pleeeeaase stop.

 

I don't know what the right answer is for gender dysphoria, I mean, I'm willing to bet that people and doctors have tried every thing that we currently know about technologically to deal with it.

 

Surgery/hormones is ONE approach; it's still got a ridiculous suicide rate, so obviously it ain't the ideal solution but it's just one of the options, another of which is "be just as miserable and kill yourself at a 40% rate anyway." So I mean it's a truly tragic, horrible thing for people afflicted with this.

 

I honestly think the glomming onto LGBT, and the support by the feminists, may turn out to be the worst thing ever for that group. Because only the shrill extremists tend to be activists. Most of these people just want to quietly live as-if and pray to God nobody on the outside ever finds out otherwise. Instead it's been not only made into a huge drama, which only pushes on how far it is from the norm (creating resistance), but is being pushed in many ways (from the bathrooms to the sports) that causes a serious backlash in everyone else.

 

A lot of things that most people would go, "Dude, you're a weirdo, but whatever" and not care about in ordinary life, outside of gossiping about you maybe, they consider an actual threat on one level or another when activists and the media are pushing on it. I don't see how this is doing much of anybody any favors.

 

RC

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by redcairo

[Lost in Translation]

11 minutes ago, windwalker said:

On 8/16/2018 at 8:59 AM, Lost in Translation said:

I accept that there are cases where the best option for a person suffering from gender dysphoria is gender reassignment. It seems you do not. This is fine. Now we understand each other.

 

 

Would you support this

"

Quote

 

Body integrity dysphoria (BID, also referred to as body integrity identity disorder, amputee identity disorder and xenomelia, formerly called apotemnophilia) is a disorder characterized by a desire to be disabled or discomfort with being able-bodied beginning in early adolescence and resulting in harmful consequences.^[1] BID appears to be related to somatoparaphrenia.^[2] People with this condition may refer to themselves as "transabled".^[3][4][5]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Should Medical Science be used to make them transabled.

 

Is this different from gender dysphoria.

 

 

My prior answer on this subject stands.

 

On 8/15/2018 at 7:56 PM, Lost in Translation said:

I don't care what an adult of legal age and sound mind chooses to do with their own body as long as they do not expect me to pay for it. 

 

If a person chooses to unnecessarily make himself crippled then that is on him. I disagree with that choice but I acknowledge that it is his choice to make. 

[Lost in Translation]

23 minutes ago, redcairo said:

I honestly think the glomming onto LGBT, and the support by the feminists, may turn out to be the worst thing ever for that group. Because only the shrill extremists tend to be activists

 

There is a term for this. It is called "intersectionality." This is the reason why feminists rally alongside Palestinians, and why LGBT walk alongside global warming alarmists. It's all part of the greater leftist movement.

 

26 minutes ago, redcairo said:

Most of these people just want to quietly live as-if and pray to God nobody on the outside ever finds out otherwise.

 

You are absolutely right. Search YouTube for someone called Blair White if you want to learn more about the damage that the left is causing the LGBT community. 

[windwalker]

17 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

If a person chooses to unnecessarily make himself crippled then that is on him. I disagree with that choice but I acknowledge that it is his choice to make. 

 

 

A lot of things are choices that people can make but society does not allow for.  Right to die for example. 

You say its on them, but dont seem to acknowledge that in some way they benefit from it at the expense of others. 

 

If ia person makes a mistake and is crippled all kinds of programs and insurance to help them...If a person cripples themselves

its not only on them but everyone around them and those that enable them to do so....

 

Transgendered has become a another protected group, entitled, and expecting societal changes so that they can live out their lifestyle.  Have met and known some trans people.  Dont have an issue with them one way or another.  If they happen to be white for example they have now become another protected group.  Entitled to the benefits of benign protected. 

 

In sports its already been discussed. 

 

   

Edited August 17, 2018 by windwalker

[Kar3n]

8 minutes ago, windwalker said:

  If they happen to be white for example they have now become another protected group.  Entitled to the benefits of benign protected. 

 

And what in the bigoted hell does race have to do with transgender women in sports or anything else? 

 

Come on, man!

[Lost in Translation]

5 minutes ago, windwalker said:

A lot of things are choices that people can make but society does not allow for.  Right to die for example. 

You say its on them, but dont seem to acknowledge that in some way they benefit from it at the expense of others. 

 

If ia person makes a mistake and is crippled all kinds of programs and insurance to help them...If a person cripples themselves

its not only on them but everyone around them and those that enable them to do so....

 

You are correct. No one lives in a vacuum so even if a person makes a choice for himself it still impacts those around him. I fully acknowledge that. So where do we go from here? Do we mandate that all choices a person make be approved via committee before allowed to proceed? That's an option. Do we allow individuals to unilaterally make their own decisions? That's a second option.

 

I don't claim to know what is best at all times. I do however, know that people will make choices, for better or worse, and unless I am given a hell of a good reason to stand in someone's way I choose to let them live.