alchemystical

Kidney jing - once its gone it gone?

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I've lived a life thus far that has been pretty heavy on the stress, caffeine, work and other noxious substances as I kept my foot on the pedal for 84 hours a week in my previous role which was quite physically demanding in bursts and in the down time I used to study heavily for around a decade with no time off as I was working and PhDing at the same time.

 

Wrapped all that in a couple of years ago because I could feel that I was about to overload everything so I walked away and stripped everything back down to basics. Now I used to really really enjoy my caffeine and hammered it in immense amounts daily (along with double shots of hyper stimulating preworkouts - back before all the fun ingredients got banned - that were loaded with stuff that made your body jump straight into full on fight/flight mode for a high intensity daily weights routine) and generally did a lot of stuff that I now realize was detrimental to my body.

 

The other week I decided to have a regular cup of tea instead of my usual decaff as I thought that one cuppa couldn't make that much of a difference and boy was I wrong, I was stimmed to the max like I'd never been before and didn't sleep that night at all along with feeling my kidney region start to throb. Quite strange but in the interests of science I thought I'd try again yesterday just to make sure it wasn't due to desensitization or similar and once again exactly the same result.

 

Now if I'm right this along with my previous lifestyle point to kidney jing depletion and I'm wondering if I'm correct with that statement? Next thing I'm wondering is if its possible to replenish this resource as I've read contradictory views with some saying its inherited from your mother and once its gone its gone and others saying it can be regenerated (how?).

 

Any perspectives or advice for my situation would be much appreciated as I can't think of any other reason for my uber caffeine sensitivity. I had all of my bloods come in and they are perfect and apparently in terms of health/weight/blood pressure and all the rest I'm biologically much younger than my chronological age so thats nice but I know that energetically that isn't so.

 

Thanks for reading.

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if you truly believe you have immediate need for Kidney support, I recommend this:

 

http://www.chinesenaturalherbs.com/index.php/product/ge-jie-nourishing-kidney-pills-bu-shing-wan/

 

You need to stay away from caffeine for now until your system balances out.

 

I have a feeling your CNS is tweaked a bit... try Passion Flower too. 

 

I think we don't hear enough about your daily routine... work, exercise, energy work, meditation, yoga, drinking, etc...  so really hard to comment.

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It's not good to diagnose yourself...better to see a skilled Chinese Medical practitioner. Diagnosis requires many different things to be accurate. To me it sounds like perhaps more of a heart blood deficiency, to be super sensitive to caffeine...but impossible to diagnose accurately based on one thing.

There may be some jing depletion (or maybe not), but there could be other patterns to consider as primary in treatment. Our systems need balance in order to function well...pump more jing supplementing stuff into a disharmonious system, and the effect isn't so good. But get balance, and everything will work better and lead to a longer life...and with a balanced system, you can supplement the jing better if that's still an issue.

It's true that we're born with a certain amount of preheaven jing, and it represents our potential lifespan...with excessive lifestyle like you had, the effects can tap into that jing and drain it faster...and it is a limited supply that can only run out. But a couple words of encouragement - it ain't over till it's over! You're still walking, breathing, etc...so you have life, and you do have jing. There are some people who live hard and end up living over 100 for some reason...so don't worry. Secondly, while it's true that replenishing the preheaven jing is something of a neidan mystery (if it's even possible...do we have any actual physical immortals that anyone's aware of?), and is not within the realm of medical practices...it's also the case that we can replenish postheaven jing to make up for our losses.

How I was taught is that "kidney jing" encompasses both preheaven and postheaven jing (simply because it's said that the kidneys store jing, therefore they store both types)...so we can indeed increase our "Kidney jing", but it's done the postheaven route, and the preheaven can't be restored medically.

One way of doing that restoration is by having very abundant Liver blood...it's thought that the blood can then be transformed into postheaven jing and increase the jing back to normal levels.

Part of this replenishment must include having a lifestyle that's calm and balanced, and supports the process...if you've tended to live so hard that you tap into your resources, then you need to be extra careful to do the opposite and live so that you're never tapping into them, and so that you're having a lot of resources to make up for the tendency.

Best to avoid the caffeine, since you want to be natural and not "stimulated".

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You sound like a massive workaholic...why?

 

Do you feel worthless-by-default, if you are not "proving your worth" somehow?

Are you constantly afraid of being abandoned in some way, if you are worthless?

If your parents died tomorrow, how would you feel?

 

I'm guessing you're in your 20s or early 30s, btw?  Well, a lot of kidney depletion may not show Western medical symptoms until your 40s.  Although you may start showing classic TCM symptoms a lot earlier...if you know what to look for.

4 hours ago, dawei said:

if you truly believe you have immediate need for Kidney support, I recommend this:

 

http://www.chinesenaturalherbs.com/index.php/product/ge-jie-nourishing-kidney-pills-bu-shing-wan/

These herbs are awfully cheap - how reputable is this site?  Just curious, because these prices are so dang good? :D

Edited by gendao
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6 hours ago, dawei said:

if you truly believe you have immediate need for Kidney support, I recommend this:

 

http://www.chinesenaturalherbs.com/index.php/product/ge-jie-nourishing-kidney-pills-bu-shing-wan/

 

You need to stay away from caffeine for now until your system balances out.

 

I have a feeling your CNS is tweaked a bit... try Passion Flower too. 

 

I think we don't hear enough about your daily routine... work, exercise, energy work, meditation, yoga, drinking, etc...  so really hard to comment.

 

Thank you, have you used that site before and can you confirm the quality? At the moment I'm not working, do yoga a couple of times a week along with a much lighter more cardio based gym routine a couple of times a week also. All "badness" is out of the window simply because I cannot abide how it makes my bodymind feel. Am looking for a good gong to start in order to help the energetic process, am familiar with 18 hands and 8 brocade but haven't practiced them for a while so am a bit rusty.

 

 

5 hours ago, Aetherous said:

It's not good to diagnose yourself...better to see a skilled Chinese Medical practitioner. Diagnosis requires many different things to be accurate. To me it sounds like perhaps more of a heart blood deficiency, to be super sensitive to caffeine...but impossible to diagnose accurately based on one thing.

There may be some jing depletion (or maybe not), but there could be other patterns to consider as primary in treatment. Our systems need balance in order to function well...pump more jing supplementing stuff into a disharmonious system, and the effect isn't so good. But get balance, and everything will work better and lead to a longer life...and with a balanced system, you can supplement the jing better if that's still an issue.

It's true that we're born with a certain amount of preheaven jing, and it represents our potential lifespan...with excessive lifestyle like you had, the effects can tap into that jing and drain it faster...and it is a limited supply that can only run out. But a couple words of encouragement - it ain't over till it's over! You're still walking, breathing, etc...so you have life, and you do have jing. There are some people who live hard and end up living over 100 for some reason...so don't worry. Secondly, while it's true that replenishing the preheaven jing is something of a neidan mystery (if it's even possible...do we have any actual physical immortals that anyone's aware of?), and is not within the realm of medical practices...it's also the case that we can replenish postheaven jing to make up for our losses.

How I was taught is that "kidney jing" encompasses both preheaven and postheaven jing (simply because it's said that the kidneys store jing, therefore they store both types)...so we can indeed increase our "Kidney jing", but it's done the postheaven route, and the preheaven can't be restored medically.

One way of doing that restoration is by having very abundant Liver blood...it's thought that the blood can then be transformed into postheaven jing and increase the jing back to normal levels.

Part of this replenishment must include having a lifestyle that's calm and balanced, and supports the process...if you've tended to live so hard that you tap into your resources, then you need to be extra careful to do the opposite and live so that you're never tapping into them, and so that you're having a lot of resources to make up for the tendency.

Best to avoid the caffeine, since you want to be natural and not "stimulated".

Thank you for that in depth response, I'm glad I caught it before it became a major issue as my aim is to make my current lifestyle as nurturing as possible. I did see a TCM doctor and they stated my issue was due to damp heat (the place I used to work was very very cold) and recommend some herbs and acupuncture. Now I only have a grasp of the basics of TCM myself but I also know my own life and feel that the consultant was trying too hard to hock more services/generate profit and helping me was a secondary concern as after a year of treatment I was no further on until I looked into the kidneys and all of a sudden things became a lot clearer. Could you share any more info on heart blood deficiency as I don't know much about that area.

 

 

3 hours ago, gendao said:

You sound like a massive workaholic...why?

 

Do you feel worthless-by-default, if you are not "proving your worth" somehow?

Are you constantly afraid of being abandoned in some way, if you are worthless?

If your parents died tomorrow, how would you feel?

 

I'm guessing you're in your 20s or early 30s, btw?  Well, a lot of kidney depletion may not show Western medical symptoms until your 40s.  Although you may start showing classic TCM symptoms a lot earlier...if you know what to look for.

These herbs are awfully cheap - how reputable is this site?  Just curious, because these prices are so dang good? :D

My parents are dead and I inherited their debts so I could either whine like a bitch about my fate or accept it and double down to help those that remain and use what I've got to remedy the situation. What are these classic symptoms you speak of? Share something worthwhile please.

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6 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Thank you for that in depth response, I'm glad I caught it before it became a major issue as my aim is to make my current lifestyle as nurturing as possible. I did see a TCM doctor and they stated my issue was due to damp heat (the place I used to work was very very cold) and recommend some herbs and acupuncture. Now I only have a grasp of the basics of TCM myself but I also know my own life and feel that the consultant was trying too hard to hock more services/generate profit and helping me was a secondary concern as after a year of treatment I was no further on until I looked into the kidneys and all of a sudden things became a lot clearer. Could you share any more info on heart blood deficiency as I don't know much about that area.

 

Yep the TCM doctor saw something that took precedence...if you clear the damp heat out, then the Kidney jing can more easily refill naturally. If you take jing tonics in a damp heat situation, it just makes the imbalance worse (because jing tonics can produce more damp). Besides it being bad for the digestion of tonic herbs, damp also sinks into the lower jiao and interferes with the Kidney's function...so clear damp out and you benefit the Kidney and the jing, without the need for tonics.

If after a year of treatment there was no relief, then besides looking for another practitioner, you'd probably want to be looking more into how lifestyle could remedy the damp heat. Sticking needles in and putting herbs into the system when the lifestyle is contradicting the treatment strategy might help a little bit, but giving the lifestyle the same focus will skyrocket the results.

A simple solution for the damp is to avoid foods that produce more dampness, and also chew your food until it's liquified (extremely beneficial to just do that). There are other ideas, like eating meals at the same time every day, eating within 1 hour of waking up, eating in a calm environment and not on the run, not doing mental work for the hour after eating, not ever overeating, etc.

It's good for a practitioner who is taking a year to treat damp heat to also look at why the damp is there, why the heat is there. Where are those things coming from. Chinese medicine has "root and branch" in diagnosis...the damp heat might be the branch, but if you don't cut it off at the root then treating the branch will just cause it to grow right back. You'd have to figure out why those things are being produced in the body...the cause.

Heart blood deficiency can happen from having an overactive mind, among other things...I think a depleting lifestyle would cause it. The blood in the Heart is engendered from the Liver blood...so in a long term approach, the same strategy of replenishing Kidney jing can also nourish Heart blood. Replenishing blood and jing to full levels can take months.

These are just some ideas and don't necessarily represent how everyone would do things...it's definitely essential to see a practitioner.

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6 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Thank you, have you used that site before and can you confirm the quality? 

 

Yes (many times) and Yes (very effective).  

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10 hours ago, gendao said:

You sound like a massive workaholic...why?

 

Do you feel worthless-by-default, if you are not "proving your worth" somehow?

Are you constantly afraid of being abandoned in some way, if you are worthless?

If your parents died tomorrow, how would you feel?

 

I'm guessing you're in your 20s or early 30s, btw?  Well, a lot of kidney depletion may not show Western medical symptoms until your 40s.  Although you may start showing classic TCM symptoms a lot earlier...if you know what to look for.

These herbs are awfully cheap - how reputable is this site?  Just curious, because these prices are so dang good? :D

 

I’ve looked on other websites and the same medicine is the same price everywhere. Also that website doesn’t ship outside the US

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7 hours ago, alchemystical said:

My parents are dead and I inherited their debts so I could either whine like a bitch about my fate or accept it and double down to help those that remain and use what I've got to remedy the situation. What are these classic symptoms you speak of? Share something worthwhile please.

BINGO, hitting some pay dirt here with some cold read questions... :)

 

So, you've not only already been completely abandoned (not necessarily intentionally) by your parents, but been left to pay ALL their outstanding debts (financial, parental, etc) in their absence as well.  You've got to both foot their bills and care for yourself and siblings(?).  As in your Freudian slip here, you desperately seek nurturing and WORTH, which may have been absent even at birth?  Hence, you manifest this intense struggle for such qualities today that you've lacked, perhaps even as a "neglected(?)" baby.

 

Now, this type of struggle is DEEP, and likely extends back in their own ancestral lineages too, as well as your own past lives too.

 

Remember, the kidneys have a lot to do with ancestral inheritance (or lack thereof).  And clearly, yours are extremely lacking...hence the need to burn yourself out trying to replenish them.

 

But, this cannot be fixed by mere coping strategies.  Ultimately, you MUST find the inherent WORTH you are seeking - which will then end your workaholic struggles to earn your "worth" externally through achievements - and completely drain your kidneys in the process.

 

In short, you must release your underlying beliefs manifesting your circumstances that are forcing you to be a workaholic.  Once that's done, then you will no longer be working yourself to death, and you will be able to slowly recharge your kidneys.  All the Chinese medicine can help this whole process, but a primary part of that is on the psychological level that programs your life.  Ignore that aspect, and the rest is like throwing pennies down a well...

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On 11/18/2017 at 3:26 PM, Aetherous said:

 

Yep the TCM doctor saw something that took precedence...if you clear the damp heat out, then the Kidney jing can more easily refill naturally. If you take jing tonics in a damp heat situation, it just makes the imbalance worse (because jing tonics can produce more damp). Besides it being bad for the digestion of tonic herbs, damp also sinks into the lower jiao and interferes with the Kidney's function...so clear damp out and you benefit the Kidney and the jing, without the need for tonics.

If after a year of treatment there was no relief, then besides looking for another practitioner, you'd probably want to be looking more into how lifestyle could remedy the damp heat. Sticking needles in and putting herbs into the system when the lifestyle is contradicting the treatment strategy might help a little bit, but giving the lifestyle the same focus will skyrocket the results.

A simple solution for the damp is to avoid foods that produce more dampness, and also chew your food until it's liquified (extremely beneficial to just do that). There are other ideas, like eating meals at the same time every day, eating within 1 hour of waking up, eating in a calm environment and not on the run, not doing mental work for the hour after eating, not ever overeating, etc.

It's good for a practitioner who is taking a year to treat damp heat to also look at why the damp is there, why the heat is there. Where are those things coming from. Chinese medicine has "root and branch" in diagnosis...the damp heat might be the branch, but if you don't cut it off at the root then treating the branch will just cause it to grow right back. You'd have to figure out why those things are being produced in the body...the cause.

Heart blood deficiency can happen from having an overactive mind, among other things...I think a depleting lifestyle would cause it. The blood in the Heart is engendered from the Liver blood...so in a long term approach, the same strategy of replenishing Kidney jing can also nourish Heart blood. Replenishing blood and jing to full levels can take months.

These are just some ideas and don't necessarily represent how everyone would do things...it's definitely essential to see a practitioner.

 

Thank you. Damp is notoriously hard to clear out and my TCM believes it was due to my previous working environment (which I'm no longer in). I appreciate the pointers, do you know any methods of clearing damp effectively in a holistic fashion?

 

 

21 hours ago, gendao said:

BINGO, hitting some pay dirt here with some cold read questions... :)

 

So, you've not only already been completely abandoned (not necessarily intentionally) by your parents, but been left to pay ALL their outstanding debts (financial, parental, etc) in their absence as well.  You've got to both foot their bills and care for yourself and siblings(?).  As in your Freudian slip here, you desperately seek nurturing and WORTH, which may have been absent even at birth?  Hence, you manifest this intense struggle for such qualities today that you've lacked, perhaps even as a "neglected(?)" baby.

 

Now, this type of struggle is DEEP, and likely extends back in their own ancestral lineages too, as well as your own past lives too.

 

Remember, the kidneys have a lot to do with ancestral inheritance (or lack thereof).  And clearly, yours are extremely lacking...hence the need to burn yourself out trying to replenish them.

 

But, this cannot be fixed by mere coping strategies.  Ultimately, you MUST find the inherent WORTH you are seeking - which will then end your workaholic struggles to earn your "worth" externally through achievements - and completely drain your kidneys in the process.

 

In short, you must release your underlying beliefs manifesting your circumstances that are forcing you to be a workaholic.  Once that's done, then you will no longer be working yourself to death, and you will be able to slowly recharge your kidneys.  All the Chinese medicine can help this whole process, but a primary part of that is on the psychological level that programs your life.  Ignore that aspect, and the rest is like throwing pennies down a well...

 

I'm actually Batman but you on the other hand are quick to talk and slow to listen so you may wish to turn your fount of wisdom around and invest in the parched lands of the self (there I did something) for those that run around attempting to project onto others often have a fear of looking into their own depths. Now if you go back and actually read what I said instead of reeling of pop psych cliche after pop psych cliche you'd see that I walked away from all of that a few years ago and now live a totally different lifestyle.

 

In many ways I preempted your word salad with "Share something worthwhile please" as I had a feeling that you'd just spout platitudes like the above and you certainly didn't disappoint.

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14 minutes ago, alchemystical said:

I appreciate the pointers, do you know any methods of clearing damp effectively in a holistic fashion?

 

Just those eating habits I said, along with not eating damp foods, will do a lot...and exercise. You can find a lot of info with a google search for damp foods to avoid, and also foods that resolve dampness.

You'll get a great result if you take Chinese herbs to work on it at the same time (prescribed by a practitioner).

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2 hours ago, alchemystical said:

I'm actually Batman but you on the other hand are quick to talk and slow to listen so you may wish to turn your fount of wisdom around and invest in the parched lands of the self (there I did something) for those that run around attempting to project onto others often have a fear of looking into their own depths. Now if you go back and actually read what I said instead of reeling of pop psych cliche after pop psych cliche you'd see that I walked away from all of that a few years ago and now live a totally different lifestyle.

 

In many ways I preempted your word salad with "Share something worthwhile please" as I had a feeling that you'd just spout platitudes like the above and you certainly didn't disappoint.

Oh boy, is that your angry, chest-beating father talking there?  Quit yer bitching son, and take it like a man!

Shame.png

emotions3.png

Because while you may have changed your lifestyle, it doesn't sound like YOU've changed much...?

 

Anyhow, you are not obligated to even read my posts, so just feel free to ignore them if you'd prefer. B)

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1 hour ago, gendao said:

Oh boy, is that your angry, chest-beating father talking there?  Quit yer bitching son, and take it like a man!

Shame.png

emotions3.png

Because while you may have changed your lifestyle, it doesn't sound like YOU've changed much...?

 

Anyhow, you are not obligated to even read my posts, so just feel free to ignore them if you'd prefer. B)

Deflection instead of introspection, staring into the abyss and all that but you already know that well, my shell of a friend ;)

 

The origin of the linked quote however is quite an interesting site, tell me which of the four types do you hail from? I'll write down my guess and lets see if I'm right.

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A huge amount of damp is what you have and possibly damp-heat.

 

A visit to an skilled Chinese Medicine herbalist is due. Make sure you find a good one and avoid the new breed of TCM doctors: clueless and prescribe incorrect formulations, which will be a very costly mistake on your behalf.

 

Note: Coffee and other stimulants (except Chinese Tea) are damp-forming substances.

 

I wish you the very best of luck :) 

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9 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Deflection instead of introspection, staring into the abyss and all that but you already know that well, my shell of a friend ;)

 

The origin of the linked quote however is quite an interesting site, tell me which of the four types do you hail from? I'll write down my guess and lets see if I'm right.

Indeed! :lol: 

Quote

The shame-bound person is controlling, rigid, and perfectionistic.

And that quote is quoted on a lot of sites, so not exactly sure what types you're referring to?  But go ahead and guess away, if you wish.. B)

Edited by gendao
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18 hours ago, Gerard said:

A huge amount of damp is what you have and possibly damp-heat.

 

A visit to an skilled Chinese Medicine herbalist is due. Make sure you find a good one and avoid the new breed of TCM doctors: clueless and prescribe incorrect formulations, which will be a very costly mistake on your behalf.

 

Note: Coffee and other stimulants (except Chinese Tea) are damp-forming substances.

 

I wish you the very best of luck :) 

Many thanks. I too feel that my current herbalist is on the money first healing later path. Thankfully I've been intuitively avoiding the food types that are no good but the sheer level of caffeine sensitivity is what got me wondering. What do you make of the idea of using a natural diuretic combo like dandelion, hawthorn, horsetail for the interim as removing the excess water should in turn reduce the damp according to my thinking whilst I seek out another practitioner.

 

14 hours ago, gendao said:

Indeed! :lol: 

And that quote is quoted on a lot of sites, so not exactly sure what types you're referring to?  But go ahead and guess away, if you wish.. B)

We are all but reflections of each other, that which we cannot accept in self we see in others and I have learned much during the course of our initial interaction. Good fortune and well wishes for your journey.

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I wish I could recommend you those herbs but I can’t. Internal energetics is extremely complex and Chinese herbalism very intrincate. They have designed formulas to remove dampness from the internal organs and the Triple Burner as well as dampness mixed with other conditions.

 

You need to see a honest and highly skilled herbalist. Depending on how long you have been carrying the condition it could take several years to leach out dampness/damp-heat completely from your system.

 

What you could do is completely modify your diet, cut completely dairy, red meat and raw fruit and vegetables and introduce some Chinese dietary measures that counteract dampness:

 

https://www.timeout.com/hong-kong/health-and-beauty/how-to-drain-dampness-with-traditional-chinese-soup-and-tea

 

http://www.lotuscentergso.com/blog/healing-porridge-congee

 

http://yang-sheng.com/?p=8267

 

Book you may consider purchasing for additional recipes:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Book-Jook-Medicinal-Porridges-Alternative/dp/0936185600

 

And also:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1891845659/ref=pd_aw_sim_14_1/134-0514895-0620828?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=P2DKMR0J183TXKRWJJCJ&dpPl=1&dpID=81C-cGpb66L

 

Stay away from TCM doctors trained in mainland China ‚ÄĒ> they are poorly trained and only care about $. Their knowledge has been adapted to Western Science. A real shame to a millenary tradition based on wisdom and a highly detailed¬†analysis and mapping of reality ‚ÄĒ> Taoism.

 

Good luck :)

 

Edited by Gerard
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Do you recommend any books on Chinese herbalism, since one these days cannot trust a TCM doctor? Preferably some sort of encyclopaedia-type book which covers everything. Also what are your thoughts on homeopathy? Thank you!

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Sorry you need to study Chinese Medicine. You can’t self-diagnose yourself unless you are a hermit living in a mountain away from society and attained a high level of realisation, ie know your internal energetics like reading clearly an open book. This is not realistic.

 

But in that instance what is the need¬†of any medicine? You are entirely surrounded by a gigantic herb garden ‚ÄĒ-> the natural world. You‚Äôll heal yourself from any ailments pretty quickly, including dampness. :)

 

For seekers living in the urban world, there are classically trained Chinese medicine doctors out there, but you need to do a thorough search.

 

Try contacting this this association for advice:

 

http://www.traditionalstudies.org/contact-ats/

 

Also look for someone who is a member of the ‚ÄúHong Kong Chinese Herbalist Association.‚ÄĚ because these people have followed an apprenticeship by a Taoist doctor. The herbalist I see is a member of this organisation and has been practicing for over 35 years. He is an Earth Ox, a thinking animal ‚ÄĒ-> this is a bonus. Search for people born in Rooster, Snake and Ox years¬†because they know what they are doing with exact detail.

 

Edited by Gerard
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What difference does the year you’re born make? I know some people all born in a certain year, and they’re all of vastly different personalities. It doesn’t make sense. Where did you learn that? I’m not criticising, i’m open to knowing your explanation. 

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When someone is attracted to internal development it makes a big difference between a Rabbit and a Rooster, trust me!

 

I have no words to explain this, it all comes down to personal experience. I’m an old Virgo-Libra Fire Horse so I can suss things out quite quickly ;)

 

Btw, rather than relying yourself on the knowledge offered by books why don’t you learn Baguaquan. This art will open you up completely. I wouldn’t have gone this far without this life-changing art. Highly recommended. Make sure to learn from a teacher who values internal development over any other considerations. He Jinghan has a large YouTube channel with invaluable video teachings about Foundational Training.

 

 

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The thing about Baguaquan is that I don’t see how the Chinese interpret that as some sort of martial art or types of movement. The Bagua seems to be a philosophy to me, or something like the astrological constellations. Making a martial art or qigong out of it seems to be a mistaken interpretation.

 

Also, I typed in ‚ÄėHong Kong Chinese Herbalist Association‚Äô on google and nothing came up about this organisation. Do they have a website? No other websites mentioned them.

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Bagua:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baguazhang

 

An integral part of Traditional Chinese civilisation.

 

Taoism Five Arts:

 

http://taoist-sorcery.blogspot.com.au/2014/01/5-arts-of-chinese-metaphysics-wu-shu.html?m=1

 

Healing and strengthening, through martial arts practice, of the body-mind paradigm is an integral part of Taoism.

 

Hong Kong Chinese Medicine regulatory body:

 

http://www.cmchk.org.hk/cmp/eng/#../../eng/main_index.htm

 

 

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