Why is there so much disrespect in the Taoist tradition?

[三江源]

 

WonderfuL!

[Ian]

What did the Taoist say to the hot dog vendor?

 

Make me one with everything.

 

Then the taoist hands over a twenty dollar bill and the vendor just pockets it.

 

"hang on", says the taoist, "where's my change?"

 

"change must come from within," replies the vendor.

[Taiji Bum]

Then the taoist hands over a twenty dollar bill and the vendor just pockets it.

 

"hang on", says the taoist, "where's my change?"

 

"change must come from within," replies the vendor.

[steve]

 

Why is there so much disrespect in the Taoist traditon?

 

First it might be better to phrase the question "Why is there so much disrespect in students of the Taoist tradition?"

 

 

I'll respond with a question.

Do you think there is more disrespect in the Daoist tradition than others?

That is - does the Daoist tradition differ substantially from other traditions in terms of internal politics?

My answer to your original question would be a paraphrased quote from Osho:

True religion (spirituality, whatever you want to call it) is everything that goes in internally for the individual searching for his/her true nature. Everything else, everything external is politics.

[三江源]

Then the taoist hands over a twenty dollar bill and the vendor just pockets it.

 

"hang on", says the taoist, "where's my change?"

 

"change must come from within," replies the vendor.

 

 

[mentalground0]

MTC...

 

i was reading quite a bit about tricksters last summer, and although the trickster is disrespectful, he (sometimes she) does it to change society's view. and it's not a disrespect as much as a turning things upside down, laughing at the sacred, praising the profane.

 

"Many native traditions held clowns and tricksters as essential to any contact with the sacred. People could not pray until they had laughed, because laughter opens and frees from rigid preconception. Humans had to have tricksters within the most sacred ceremonies for fear that they forget the sacred comes through upset, reversal, surprise. The trickster in most native traditions is essential to creation, to birth." --Byrd Gibbens

 

so let's all be taoist tricksters, teaching others (when they ask) through laughter, pranks and turning the illusion of this world on its head.

 

 

 

and for the record, i'm a woman and i wouldn't say "my teacher is better than yours"

i work with kids and usually they grow out of that by 7 or 8

[steve]

MTC...

 

i was reading quite a bit about tricksters last summer, and although the trickster is disrespectful, he (sometimes she) does it to change society's view. and it's not a disrespect as much as a turning things upside down, laughing at the sacred, praising the profane.

 

"Many native traditions held clowns and tricksters as essential to any contact with the sacred. People could not pray until they had laughed, because laughter opens and frees from rigid preconception. Humans had to have tricksters within the most sacred ceremonies for fear that they forget the sacred comes through upset, reversal, surprise. The trickster in most native traditions is essential to creation, to birth." --Byrd Gibbens

 

so let's all be taoist tricksters, teaching others (when they ask) through laughter, pranks and turning the illusion of this world on its head.

Good points - Zen masters certainly tend to be tricksters as well. I love Alan Watts' discussions of the seriousness of religion and the need for humor and enjoyment.

and for the record, i'm a woman and i wouldn't say "my teacher is better than yours"

i work with kids and usually they grow out of that by 7 or 8

Kids may grow out of it but men don't...

[mentalground0]

Good points - Zen masters certainly tend to be tricksters as well. I love Alan Watts' discussions of the seriousness of religion and the need for humor and enjoyment.

yes! I was reading Alan Watts. have you ever checked out Trickster Makes the World by Lewis Hyde? fascinating discussion about trickster stories and how writers and artists are tricksters in their way.

 

Kids may grow out of it but men don't...

truth, my friend

[Michael81]

yes! I was reading Alan Watts. have you ever checked out Trickster Makes the World by Lewis Hyde? fascinating discussion about trickster stories and how writers and artists are tricksters in their way.

truth, my friend

 

I second that about Trickster Makes this World, it was the course material for a humanities course I took some time ago, and I found it to be fantastic. Trickster redefines the boundaries of society, breaking through stagnation. I find myself very drawn to Coyote teachers.

[steve]

have you ever checked out Trickster Makes the World by Lewis Hyde?

I'll check that out, thanks!

[三江源]

I agree it is essential Tao and Zen to allow the Trickster to flow through one.

 

The danger is of the ego adopting the guise of a trickster, in order to sabotage and agress. In this way the Trickster double tricks.

 

 

It goes without saying that Tricksters dont belong to gangs and argue about whose gang is the best.

 

 

And yet there is a Trickster element present even in the most trite of baiting and boasts that go on here - because when someone rises to the bait with querulous voice demanding the trollism not be unfair and diss their gang/treasured beliefs/heavy investment project, they show their vulnerability with the protestations.

[Cameron]

I am all for good humor but that was not what I was referring to.

 

When someone calls one of your teachers a liar,a fake, a charlatan, low level, etc, etc.

 

Sorry, not funny to me.

 

Sean illustrated this point better in another thread. It's cool to be yang about your views and express yourself without resorting to trash talking. Especially when it is obviously apparent that you really don't know what you are talking about.

[rain]

 

 

When someone calls one of your teachers a liar,a fake, a charlatan, low level, etc, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

agreed

 

now

 

basement ....

music?

Edited January 10, 2008 by rain

[mentalground0]

I am all for good humor but that was not what I was referring to.

 

When someone calls one of your teachers a liar,a fake, a charlatan, low level, etc, etc.

 

Sorry, not funny to me.

 

Sean illustrated this point better in another thread. It's cool to be yang about your views and express yourself without resorting to trash talking. Especially when it is obviously apparent that you really don't know what you are talking about.

 

and i agree about the trash talking, Cameron. that's why we need to transform the trash vibe into trickster energy, spinning negativity on the board into positivity to our fellow man, both here and out in the world, transforming the thought process from a competition into one of challenging that competitive urge by laughing at it all.

 

it's freeing to laugh at the most inappropriate times - not laughing at someone's misfortune, but laughing at the absurdity of it all - the "big joke". maybe some people here on the board just need a good belly laugh, yes?

[Starjumper]

Do women say "my teacher can beat your teacher?"

or just the boys?

i think that stopped in kindergarten

and ohhh..5 min later after cruising some other thread..i see what the fuss is about.

 

Hi girls. That was me =) A person on my forum asked about a certain practice an upon checking it out I found some people here going ga ga over the latest BS artist. I very much dislike seeing people getting ripped off in the name of my practice and so upon dealing with it in my typically heavy handed manner (I'm not a sissy keyboard artist, I'm a goddamn welder) I noticed a bit of a childish tendency arising in some of the respondents and so decided to, as they say, fuck with their heads. I think it's called trolling =) I hope some enjoyed the attempt at humor.

 

Bye girls, {{{smooch}}}

 

Ian and Sean and 'others', I'll get back to you in that thread before too long. I'll tone it down.

Edited January 10, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Cameron]

Childish tendency? You come here out of the blue calling a teacher alot of us enjoy studying with a liar, a charlatan etc and you call that childish tendency?

 

Are you smoking crack?

 

Anyway, I didn't realize Kunlun was "your practice". But as you study with one of the highest Masters living(Haven't we heard all this before but with slighly better manners?) your all set then.

 

So are you going to leave after trolling us or do you have anything positive to say?

[rain]

Hi girls. That was me =) A person on my forum asked about a certain practice an upon checking it out I found some people here going ga ga over the latest BS artist. I very much dislike seeing people getting ripped off in the name of my practice and so upon dealing with it in my typically heavy handed manner (I'm not a sissy keyboard artist, I'm a goddamn welder) I noticed a bit of a childish tendency arising in some of the respondents and so decided to, as they say, fuck with their heads. I think it's called trolling =) I hope some enjoyed the attempt at humor.

 

Bye girls, {{{smooch}}}

 

Ian and Sean and 'others', I'll get back to you in that thread before too long. I'll tone it down.

 

 

'ello woolface-troll. i believe you missed a t in your name star_jumper. =)

 

...or as we say in our house hold "..Is he happy now, mr. hansen?".

Edited January 10, 2008 by rain

[宁]

pfff....

 

dudes, daoism was never really about fight, it was wu-wei, remember?

 

it's not about IT, but about what some people make out of it. and whatever they do make out of it, it still is at most, half as disrespectfull as any other spiritual path, it's just its nature, wu-wei, no-fight, no fire.

 

but what is a good forum without a good yappin'

 

[Starjumper]

Childish tendency? You come here out of the blue calling a teacher a lot of us enjoy studying with a liar, a charlatan etc and you call that childish tendency?

 

Yep, and since he is a charlatan, I spoke truth. I guess you missed that?

 

Are you smoking crack?

 

Nope. I guess you missed that too.

 

Anyway, I didn't realize Kunlun was "your practice".

 

Nope, my practice is Nei Kung. I guess you missed that too, I'm must say that in light of your observational abilities that you seem just the type to get along famously with Max. =)

 

So are you going to leave after trolling us or do you have anything positive to say?

 

That information is only given out on a need to know basis.

 

However, if you look closely you may notice I already offered some constructive criticism about it. I dislike repeating myself but I might just for you, given your observational abilities and all, and do it in a more positive manner.

 

Have a nice day {{{smooch}}} and drop it!

 

'ello woolface-troll. i believe you missed a t in your name star_jumper. =)

 

...or as we say in our house hold "..Is he happy now, mr. hansen?".

 

Yes sometimes, sometimes I end up giggling almost to the point of falling out of my chair.

 

I'm afraid I don't get the startjumper idea.

Edited January 10, 2008 by Starjumper7

[rain]

I'm afraid I don't get the startjumper idea.

 

you will

Edited January 10, 2008 by rain

[steve]

 

When someone calls one of your teachers a liar,a fake, a charlatan, low level, etc, etc.

 

Sorry, not funny to me.

 

I would like to share an experience in the hopes that it might be useful. I don't mean to imply anything about my opinions on this particular conflict or the individuals involved - just a general outlook.

 

I recently went through a time when a particularly viscious guy was on a public character assasination attempt against my shifu. His motivation was political but he did his best to cover that up, of course. Needless to say, it upset me quite a bit. I happened to be reading some stuff at the time by J Krishnamurti which was really illuminating. He helped me to begin asking myself questions and going into them very deeply, like: Why do I feel hurt? What does that tell me about my relationship with my shifu and about myself? Who is it, really, that is feeling hurt? Some really valuable insights came out of that for me, some of which were not terribly pleasant or what I would have expected. Overall, however, it was a valuable experience.

 

it's freeing to laugh at the most inappropriate times - not laughing at someone's misfortune, but laughing at the absurdity of it all - the "big joke". maybe some people here on the board just need a good belly laugh, yes?

YES!!! I can never get enough of them!

[Cameron]

LOL. Ok, it's dropped.

 

I guess I will have to get used to reading you call one of my teachers a charlatan over and over here. How fun.

[AugustLeo]

.

[三江源]

Hi girls. That was me =) A person on my forum asked about a certain practice an upon checking it out I found some people here going ga ga over the latest BS artist. I very much dislike seeing people getting ripped off in the name of my practice and so upon dealing with it in my typically heavy handed manner (I'm not a sissy keyboard artist, I'm a goddamn welder) I noticed a bit of a childish tendency arising in some of the respondents and so decided to, as they say, fuck with their heads. I think it's called trolling =) I hope some enjoyed the attempt at humor.

 

Bye girls, {{{smooch}}}

 

 

 

Hey Dude. You can jump over my star any ole day,you big hunka spunk you.

 

smooch rightbackatcha, and then some.

 

this board doesnt have a "DONT FEED THE TROLLS" policy, I noticed that before. rich pickings.

[Wayfarer64]

The road to truth is long and lined the entire way with annoying bastards.

 

 

Illigitimus noncarbarundum...(dont let the bastards wear ya down)