Starjumper

Mo Pai - Instructions & Warnings

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15 hours ago, Walker said:

Does "or greater" refer to iron mankini?

 

I've been setting out mouse traps lately, because I always wanted a fur lined jock strap.

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15 hours ago, virtue said:

 

I have never understood why More Pie people are homing into this "objective evidence" argument all the time.

 

Right, in that the scientific method is also very big on reproducible evidence.  After a hypothesis proved, can it be re-proved, double and tripled checked in other places. 

 

I'm reminded of a story that when Judo was new, it was widely challenged for the audacity of being a new martial art.  The founder of modern Judo Kano Jigoro was excellent but not phenomenal at Judo and quite the gentlemen and promoter.  He would send challengers to a friend who'd quickly beat them.  But the thing is, his friend was a top Jujitsu man. 

 

What I'm getting at is pointing to one talented man in the past as proof is not the best or most logical method.  Better to have people who practice now show there abilities.

Edited by thelerner
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On 12/12/2019 at 9:06 PM, Earl Grey said:

 

Because this will likely attract a lot of views, you're going to also get a lot of comments and hostility there too from supporters, whether they are part of his group or not, particularly fans looking for JC. 

 

Will you turn off comments or are you planning to let them talk amongst themselves and say nothing? Or will you be responding to more comments in the comments? I've seen videos where it's enough hostility in the comments that one could make videos responding to comments, so you may end up with at least two videos under this title just responding to comments. 

 

I'll leave comments on.  I thought I would get a lot of criers on my "Nei Kung is Bullshit" video, and was surprised to find that the response was overwhelmingly positive. With comments in general being along the lines of "thanks for telling the tough truth."  Most of those kinds of comments were on FB, where I flooded various chi kung and tai chi groups with the Vimeo version, there have been very few views on Utube.

 

It may be similar with the "Mo Pai is Bullshit" video.  In fact the Wimps are in a serious minority, and even people of low IQ should be able to easily see the glaring defects in the Western Mo Pai Students (WMPS) though processes when presented with some simple facts and reasoning.  Therefore any comments by Wimps on the video will simply be proof of the pudding, so to speak.

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8 hours ago, virtue said:

 

I have never understood why More Pie people are homing into this "objective evidence" argument all the time.

 

I think you might misunderstand what the scientific method is. It's not about some random PhD types witnessing demonstrations in somewhat controlled quasi-laboratory environments and so forth writing about their observations, but a meticulous system of peer review where you face fierce critics and skeptics of all sorts who should be able to conveniently verify your exactly stated falsifiable hypotheses by conducting the same procedure you have described with great detail and care. Why is it done like this? Real science requires controlling and eliminating biases of all type out of which confirmation bias is the most important. Hence the argument about strictly objective observers and observations falls short of modern scientific standards: there is no reliable science without peer review.

 

Moreover, the abundance of pertinent cancer cases lends little credibility to doing further research with More Pie with ethics and safety in mind.

 

This all clearly makes sense and is good for the purpose of this thread, which is presenting the dangers of Mo Pai to the public.  Obviously the Wimps can not see the reasoning behind your post, but most other people can, therefore I hope that in this thread we do not answer to or quote any Wimps too much.  As you can see, he has repeated the same thing about 'evidence' four times already, in spite of good reasons why it won't happen.  

 

Their constant repetition of abject stupidity is what makes reasonable people angry and is the cause of the derailment of the other Mo Pai threads.  Therefore, lets not answer to the trolls too much.  If you noticed, I first posted this thread almost three years ago, but 'hid' it with a fake title and blank pages till it scrolled down three pages on this forum.  Then I put in the information about Mo Pai, which made it available to public internet searches without interference from the Wimps for over two years.  I was wondering when someone would make a comment on it and bring it up to the attention of 'them' ...

 

 

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11 hours ago, virtue said:

 

I have never understood why More Pie people are homing into this "objective evidence" argument all the time.

 

I think you might misunderstand what the scientific method is. It's not about some random PhD types witnessing demonstrations in somewhat controlled quasi-laboratory environments and so forth writing about their observations, but a meticulous system of peer review where you face fierce critics and skeptics of all sorts who should be able to conveniently verify your exactly stated falsifiable hypotheses by conducting the same procedure you have described with great detail and care. Why is it done like this? Real science requires controlling and eliminating biases of all type out of which confirmation bias is the most important. Hence the argument about strictly objective observers and observations falls short of modern scientific standards: there is no reliable science without peer review.

 

Moreover, the abundance of pertinent cancer cases lends little credibility to doing further research with More Pie with ethics and safety in mind.

 

 

"I have never understood why More Pie people are homing into this "objective evidence" argument all the time."

 

So lets talk about ball lightning. 

 

At one point ball lightning was considered supernatural "woo" nonsense.

 

There were many eye witness accounts of it occurring, but it was still regarded as "woo".

 

However even up to the 1960's it was still considered as such.

 

It wasn't until the phenomenon was widely filmed that it became accepted.

 

Without good objective evidence for the phenomenon, it would have remained as supernatural "woo" nonsense.

 

The best evidence surely would be to witness the phenomenon of ball lightning for yourself directly. 

 

Barring direct first hand observation your only other options would be the personal testimony (either written or oral) from other people, or objective video evidence of an event of ball lightning occurring.
 

We contend that there are many delusional people who believe things exist or occur that really do not, and as such personal testimony is a poor form of evidence to base your beliefs on.

 

We contend that personal testimony alone is not adequate, and that objective video evidence with scientists and medical doctors present to do their best to rule out fraud is as good as it gets without direct first hand observation.

 

Investing time, money and energy training in a spiritual system requires good objective evidence to validate the system as legitimate first.

 

I hope that makes sense.

 

 

 

 

I think you might misunderstand what the scientific method is.

 

I think you misunderstand our position. 

 

Wim Hof has been both filmed and published in many studies, so it is indeed possible.

 

Surely we would all love for a person like John Chang to go to every major university and do demonstrations until the academic and scientific communities were satisfied.

 

We aren't making the claim that objective video evidence of John with scientists and medical doctors present to do their best to rule out fraud is some sort of form of "scientific proof", that frauds or hoaxes do not occur,  or that it is been peer reviewed and published in major journals.

 

What we do contend is that this is better than written or oral personal testimony, and short of direct first hand observation it is as good as we can hope for.

 

I hope that makes sense.

 

 

 

 

"Moreover, the abundance of pertinent cancer cases lends little credibility to doing further research with More Pie with ethics and safety in mind."

 

This has already been addressed many times.

 

Jim was exposed to agent orange during Vietnam, and his cancer was specifically linked to that exposure.

 

At best you could argue his training in Mo Pai did not cure or prevent his cancer.

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3 hours ago, thelerner said:

Right, in that the scientific method is also very big on reproducible evidence.  After a hypothesis proved, can it be proved, double and tripled checked in other places. 

 

I'm reminded of a story that when Judo was new, it was widely challenged for the audacity of being a new martial art.  The founder of modern Judo Kano Jigoro was excellent but not phenomenal at Judo and quite the gentlemen and promoter.  He would send challengers to a friend who'd quickly beat them.  But the thing is, his friend was a top Jujitsu man. 

 

What I'm getting at is pointing to one talented man in the past as proof is not the best or most logical method.  Better to have people who practice now show there abilities.

 

"the scientific method is also very big on reproducible evidence.  After a hypothesis proved, can it be proved, double and tripled checked in other places."

 

Wim Hof has been both filmed and published in many studies, so it is indeed possible.

 

Surely we would all love for a person like John Chang to go to every major university and do demonstrations until the academic and scientific communities were satisfied.

 

We aren't making the claim that objective video evidence of John with scientists and medical doctors present to do their best to rule out fraud is some sort of form of "scientific proof", that frauds or hoaxes do not occur,  or that it is been peer reviewed and published in major journals.

 

What we do contend is that this is better than written or oral personal testimony, and short of direct first hand observation it is as good as we can hope for.

 

I hope that makes sense.

 

"one talented man in the past as proof is not the best or most logical method."

 

Ultimately either the teachings are valid and produce results or they don't.  Without such a demonstration there is no way to know for sure. It is not practical explore all possible paths when they take decades of constant practice to realize results.

 

"Better to have people who practice now show there abilities."

 

If John's demonstration at level ~20 wasn't good enough, nothing a level 2b like Jim McMillan even could provide would be any better.

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I like Wim Hof, been doing his stuff for years.   Found them rewarding (& difficult), gained surprising amount of skill in breath retention and cold tolerance, which in turn probably boosts my meditative depth and immune system. 

 

Bottom line is you can take his program and be like Hof(not his extreme).  But if Western Mo Pai's selling point is do this and be like Chang.. ie telekinesis, pyrokinesis, then its problematic. 

 

I don't want to see John Chang go to every university to be tested.  I'd prefer to see his students be tested or rather see if they can do anything.  I've always said if you want to join a martial art, look to the top students, they're what you'll become.  You're unlikely to become ask skilled as the art's masters or grand masters because they're most often a unique combination of incredible dedication, great teachers and inner talent. 

 

Helps to be born into a culture that promotes and rewards such an art too.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by thelerner
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24 minutes ago, thelerner said:

I like Wim Hof, been doing his stuff for years.   Found them rewarding (& difficult), gained surprising amount of skill in breath retention and cold tolerance, which in turn probably boosts my meditative depth and immune system. 

 

Bottom line is you can take his program and be like Hof(not his extreme).  But if Western Mo Pai's selling point is do this and be like Chang.. ie telekinesis, pyrokinesis, then its problematic. 

 

I don't want to see John Chang go to every university to be tested.  I'd prefer to see his students be tested or rather see if they can do anything.  I've always said if you want to join a martial art, look to the top students, they're what you'll become.  You're unlikely to become ask skilled as the art's masters or grand masters because they're most often a unique combination of incredible dedication, great teachers and inner talent. 

 

Helps to be born into a culture that promotes and rewards such an art too.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

The best we can do is present the evidence we have, and hope others will get serious and see for themselves via their own bootstraps.

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1 hour ago, MegaMind said:

The best we can do is present the evidence we have, and hope others will get serious and see for themselves via their own bootstraps.

You've got that quote on auto dial, right. 

No, you can do better.   Chang doing something that Western Mo Pai students can't is not good evidence.. of anything.  But never mind that. 

 

Instead you could push the positives of the practice and there are many.  Its an old genuine form of nei gung. It has both similarities and difference with other old respected traditions.   Its got a unique indepth take on yin and yang theory, step by step collection of chi.  The emphasis on long practice, celibacy and meditating on the ground.  Lots of good aspects you could push. 

 

What students get out of the practice..kind of stuff.  If I recall properly in an old interview Kosta talked about how it improved his life,  his relationship with God, and his wife (which can be a tougher trick). 

 

But going that route wouldn't allow you to fight page after page, writing the same thing over and over, showing 10 or 20 year old videos that then create the usual circular tits for tats and ridicule.

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25 minutes ago, thelerner said:

You've got that quote on auto dial, right. 

No, you can do better.   Chang doing something that Western Mo Pai students can't is not good evidence.. of anything.  But never mind that. 

 

Instead you could push the positives of the practice and there are many.  Its an old genuine form of nei gung. It has both similarities and difference with other old respected traditions.   Its got a unique indepth take on yin and yang theory, step by step collection of chi.  The emphasis on long practice, celibacy and meditating on the ground.  Lots of good aspects you could push. 

 

What students get out of the practice..kind of stuff.  If I recall properly in an old interview Kosta talked about how it improved his life,  his relationship with God, and his wife (which can be a tougher trick). 

 

But going that route wouldn't allow you to fight page after page, writing the same thing over and over, showing 10 or 20 year old videos that then create the usual circular tits for tats and ridicule.

 

The idea here is we want a system that is proven, and to not waste our time with a system or a teacher unless there is good objective evidence with scientists and medical doctors present to do their best to rule out fraud.

 

Chang has provided good objective evidence the system works.

 

Actually I would say that Mo Pai has negatively impacted my life, because it has forced me to experience aspects of reality that aren't pretty and most people could never accept as true.

 

Most of these other schools and practices don't do anything, and don't lead anywhere.

 

Mo Pai is different.

 

It is actually real, and can proven as such to anyone willing to put forth the time and effort to see for themselves.

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Again, you're writing from auto dial.  You realize that.  right?  never mind.

 

If you didn't include "Most of these other schools and practices don't do anything, and don't lead anywhere.".. ie insulting all other traditions so much, it wouldn't get bounced back on you. 

 

See, now I'm doing it, writing what I've written in the past.  You can't help it, insulting other arts is part of the Western Mo Pai tradition as taught by More Pie Bear.  If you ever break away from there influence, consider writing positively about your art and insulting other ones less.  You'd be surprised.  

 

Or maybe not.  I think Mo Pai is unfairly attacked, though imo some of its proponents writing styles almost guarantee to keep negativity alive. 

 

clap clap out. 

Edited by thelerner
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19 minutes ago, thelerner said:

Again, you're writing from auto dial.  You realize that.  right?  never mind.

 

If you didn't include "Most of these other schools and practices don't do anything, and don't lead anywhere.".. ie insulting all other traditions so much, it wouldn't get bounced back on you. 

 

See, now I'm doing it, writing what I've written in the past.  You can't help it, insulting other arts is part of the Western Mo Pai tradition as taught by More Pie Bear.  If you ever break away from there influence, consider writing positively about your art and insulting other ones less.  You'd be surprised.  

 

Or maybe not.  I think Mo Pai is unfairly attacked, though imo some of its proponents writing styles almost guarantee to keep negativity alive. 

 

clap clap out. 

 

We certainly are open to other teachers and systems, but we need good hard objective video evidence, with scientists and medical doctors present to do their best to rule out fraud.

 

Wim Hoff and Tummo, John Chang and Mo Pai are the only two schools at the moment that meet that criteria.

 

We just don't want to waste our time with placebo practices and delusional teachers.

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The More Pie Creed

 

I believe in More Pie,
the internal way,
maker of real miracles,
of all things academically valid.

 

I believe in Jim McMillan,
the only open teacher of the style,
transmitter of the lineage past.
More Pie from More Pie, ball lightning from ball lightning,
true More Pie from true More Pie,
taught directly, not appropriated, consubstantial with the true More Pie;
through him all gains were made.
For us WMPs and for our pursuit
he came back from Java,
and by the internal training was incarnate of More Pie power,
and became the dude.
For our sake he served in Vietnam under conscription,
he got exposed to Agent Orange and developed prostrate cancer,
and died from health complications
in accordance to typical medical prognosis.
He was glorified by us into heaven
and we think we are in the right of our minds.
We will come again in glory
to judge other internal arts
and our trolling will have no end.

 

I believe in the internal training, More Pie, the giver of bragging rights,
which proceeds from associating with More Pie and Jim McMillan,
which with More Pie and Jim McMillan is proven safe and scientific,
which has been objectively observed by random scientists.

 

I believe in one, true, universal and transmitted More Pie tradition.
I confess one scientific study to be more than enough evidence even without peer review
and I look forward to impressing people on Internet forums
and the life of feeling unjustly criticized. Amen.

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8 hours ago, ralis said:


I clicked on the Mo Pai links and there are only two registered users on that forum. 

 

The purpose is to host a FAQ only, if I had a personal practice forum, I would have hosted it there instead.

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On 12/14/2019 at 3:46 AM, virtue said:

 

I have never understood why More Pie people are homing into this "objective evidence" argument all the time.

 

I think you might misunderstand what the scientific method is. It's not about some random PhD types witnessing demonstrations in somewhat controlled quasi-laboratory environments and so forth writing about their observations, but a meticulous system of peer review where you face fierce critics and skeptics of all sorts who should be able to conveniently verify your exactly stated falsifiable hypotheses by conducting the same procedure you have described with great detail and care. Why is it done like this? Real science requires controlling and eliminating biases of all type out of which confirmation bias is the most important. Hence the argument about strictly objective observers and observations falls short of modern scientific standards: there is no reliable science without peer review.

 

Moreover, the abundance of pertinent cancer cases lends little credibility to doing further research with More Pie with ethics and safety in mind.

 

8 hours ago, virtue said:

The More Pie Creed

 

I believe in More Pie,
the internal way,
maker of real miracles,
of all things academically valid.

 

I believe in Jim McMillan,
the only open teacher of the style,
transmitter of the lineage past.
More Pie from More Pie, ball lightning from ball lightning,
true More Pie from true More Pie,
taught directly, not appropriated, consubstantial with the true More Pie;
through him all gains were made.
For us WMPs and for our pursuit
he came back from Java,
and by the internal training was incarnate of More Pie power,
and became the dude.
For our sake he served in Vietnam under conscription,
he got exposed to Agent Orange and developed prostrate cancer,
and died from health complications
in accordance to typical medical prognosis.
He was glorified by us into heaven
and we think we are in the right of our minds.
We will come again in glory
to judge other internal arts
and our trolling will have no end.

 

I believe in the internal training, More Pie, the giver of bragging rights,
which proceeds from associating with More Pie and Jim McMillan,
which with More Pie and Jim McMillan is proven safe and scientific,
which has been objectively observed by random scientists.

 

I believe in one, true, universal and transmitted More Pie tradition.
I confess one scientific study to be more than enough evidence even without peer review
and I look forward to impressing people on Internet forums
and the life of feeling unjustly criticized. Amen.

 

 

"I have never understood why More Pie people are homing into this "objective evidence" argument all the time."

 

I am afraid you still don't understand our position.

 

We do not worship John or Jim.

 

This is not religion or a philosophy.

 

We would gladly jump ship to another practice with at least as much evidence as John provided.

 

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10 hours ago, virtue said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Dog-Behavior-Series-What-Does-Science-Ba

 

 

"Dog in a chemistry lab meme: "Trust me this is science."

 

Again we aren't making the claim the evidence provided by John was "scientific proof", that was replicated and peer reviewed.

 

It was objective video evidence, and scientists and medical doctors were present in a controlled location to do their best to rule out fraud.

 

Certainly fraud can happen, and certainly the scientists and doctors could have missed something.

 

Direct first hand observation is best.  Objective video evidence is far better than personal testimony.

 

We contend that personal testimony is not reliable enough to base your beliefs on.

 

I hope that makes sense.

Edited by MegaMind

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15 hours ago, MegaMind said:

We just don't want to waste our time with placebo practices and delusional teachers.


I’m aware of the long history of arguments on the Mo Pai subject - however I avoided reading into it, and have no interest in doing that now. 
 

However I think that maybe it’s worth sharing my experiences in these arts - might shed some light to both sides of the argument.

 

The truth is that at the higher levels in these arts - ‘objective’ proofs and validation of one’s skill are both tested and demonstrated. This is normally done very much away from the public eye... 

 

If you’ve proven yourself with a school’s ‘outer door’ practice or have shown some level of achievement you might be invited to be initiated into the tradition. There’s often all kinds of ceremonies, empowerments etc that go along with that.
 

Then you’re shown verification of the results of the inner door practice. Sometimes it’s some physiological change in the body... sometimes it’s more ‘paranormal’... usually it’s a combination of all of these at various stages of development.
 

The fact is that ‘reality’ - including physical reality is all an aspect of Mind... and as you go deeper into the inner transformation of Mind, some weird and unusual changes take place - either as ‘abilities’ or side effects. Some abilities you have to work to achieve - some just happen as a byproduct of training.

 

Generally you will be given a method and told to go away to practice it. Then after a period of time you’re tested - and the test isn’t “did you feel Qi moving through your spine”... the test would be a specific physical change in the structure of your spine and the tissues around it. Self evaluation is fraught with delusion - that’s why each lineage will have specific changes that they’re looking for at each stage of practice... at the much later stages these ‘changes’ become pretty supernatural.

 

But

 

1. If you go to a teacher and demand to see evidence of their skill, you’ll be sorely disappointed. The onus is on you to show that you’re a good student. The reality is that for most high level teachers another student is the last thing they want. They have an over abundance of them already. And teaching is a huge burden. If a teacher is very keen to show their supernatural abilities then something is not right. They’re probably a charlatan - with either real abilities but questionable motives or tricks and questionable motives.

2. Proving anything to anyone is the last thing an advanced teacher wishes to do. It is of no interest to them. It’s like being asked to prove that you can count to a million. The only reason the results of practice are shown after you’ve proved yourself and been accepted into the school - is specifically to create trust - that it’s a genuine practice... and later for the teacher testing you it’s to see that the practice has had the required effect. That is all. Being paid to do tricks is a warning sign. Doing these things in public is a warning sign. Talking openly in public about being able to do these things is a warning sign.

 

3. As Thelerner says - the best indication of the validity of a school is that there are many senior students that can do what they claim they can. There are many unscrupulous teachers with real abilities - there are many more unscrupulous teachers with fake abilities.

 

4. You always have a teacher. Your teacher might be a document you downloaded online... it might be a book... it might be a dvd series - or it might be a real teacher. To get anywhere beyond the basics you need to have a real teacher. It’s the way these arts work. There is an exchange that takes place - without it, even if your method is legitimate, it won’t take you beyond the very foundational stages.

 

5. The main thing to look for in a school and a teacher is virtue. Without virtue you might learn skills but it won’t take you far in the spiritual arts. 
 

6. These arts are hard to master. The people that do well in them tend to be the talented ones that do well in anything they put their mind to. It requires hard work, money, time, favourable life circumstances, favourable karmic circumstances - incredible level of dedication - the ability to bounce back from failure. It requires virtue - humility and the letting go of selfish and ‘self-making’ tendencies. It requires great sacrifice. It is almost impossible.

 

7. These arts are not only difficult, but they’re also dangerous. It’s like going from not knowing how to ride a bike to having to ride a unicycle along a razor blade for hundreds of miles without falling off. Cancer is certainly a danger in these arts - Yang Qi can quickly latch onto any small bit of stagnation and turn it into uncontrolled growth.

 

8. Most people that come to such high level teachers thinking that they’re already highly developed and advanced - they simply aren’t. In most cases they’ve not even started to build the foundation. 
 

9. The ‘powers’ are not the point of the practice. The point of being a surgeon is to save people’s lives - not to be skilled in surgery. Getting attached to powers will stop progress.

 

10. Delusion is rife in these arts. This is one reason that objectively verifiable signs of progress are sought.

 

11. Teachers will often teach you outer door methods for years before teaching you anything real. More often than not they won’t even teach you anything real. This is to satisfy your thirst for power in the least harmful way possible. Another factor is... you’d call it racism maybe... but really it’s culturalism. Most teachers don’t thing modern people are up to the level of dedication or sacrifice it takes to succeed.

 

12. If you find it hard to train for 4hrs a day in a fully focused, unwavering way - then the more advanced levels are not for you. You may have all kinds of good reasons - jobs, kids, relationships, low energy, no space to practice, too sensitive, not sensitive enough etc etc - these are all completely understandable, but each one of them would preclude you from being able to reach beyond the beginning to intermediate levels.

 

13. To become healthy physically and psychologically, to transform some of our habits and tendencies to become emotionally resilient, vibrant and energetic, virtuous and at ease - that’s what most of us really want - and that’s not what these higher levels give you! You can get these benefits from authentic methods without having to dedicate your whole life to these arts.

 

A lot of people claiming to want to develop powers and spiritual advancement actually just want to feel happy, confident and at peace.


Ask yourself - what would having abilities like john chang give me that’s even more important than the abilities themselves? There is often a wound we’re looking to heal by feeling special or significant.

 

When you feel like you’re enough, like there’s no inner emptiness or ‘hunger’ for something you can’t put your finger on then usually this craving for the supernatural quickly falls away. What you really need is much more achievable than what you think you want. That’s the good news! :)

 

The other good news is that achieving this health, comfort, virtue and resilience is actually a prerequisite for doing well at the higher levels!

 

So let’s just aim for becoming better people. Better sons, better friends, better mothers. Put others needs ahead of your own. Create a happy home for you and your family. Find a way of being kind and being strong and being at ease no matter the circumstances. This will have a much greater effect on your spiritual development than some esoteric Dantien compression that you have no business doing at this stage!

 

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3 minutes ago, freeform said:

A lot of people claiming to want to develop powers and spiritual advancement actually just want to feel happy, confident and at peace.

 

3 minutes ago, freeform said:

So let’s just aim for becoming better people. Better sons, better friends, better mothers. Put others needs ahead of your own. Create a happy home for you and your family. Find a way of being kind and being strong and being at ease no matter the circumstances. This will have a much greater effect on your spiritual development than some esoteric Dantien compression that you have no business doing at this stage!

 

I'd add as well that a lot of students I've had went through fitness training and found that feeling happy, confidence, and peace was there just from being healthy and fit and didn't even want to do Zhan Zhuang anymore because pushups and squats were their favorite training. Some good readings from people like Baltasar Gracian and Ovid were also great for building the mind with the body. 

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13 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

I'd add as well that a lot of students I've had went through fitness training and found that feeling happy, confidence, and peace was there just from being healthy and fit and didn't even want to do Zhan Zhuang anymore because pushups and squats were their favorite training.


Yes! Exactly :)

 

Im often asked why I discourage people going down the Daoist path.
 

The simple answer is that in my experience what they think they’ll get out of it is not actually what they’ll get out of it. What they really want they can get from some exercise or martial arts or even dancing!

 

Dancing is so underrated. I think most people would be better off taking dance lessons than Neigong training.

 

In all seriousness! 
 

For some people there’s something other than ‘benefits’ or even ‘self actualisation’ drawing them to the Daoist or other spiritual path - those people will get into the arts despite my discouragement :)

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Just now, freeform said:


Yes! Exactly :)

 

Im often asked why I discourage people going down the Daoist path.
 

The simple answer is that in my experience what they think they’ll get out of it is not actually what they’ll get out of it. What they really want they can get from some exercise or martial arts or even dancing!

 

Dancing is so underrated. I think most people would be better off taking dance lessons than Neigong training.

 

In all seriousness! 
 

For some people there’s something other than ‘benefits’ or even ‘self actualisation’ drawing them to the Daoist or other spiritual path - those people will get into the arts despite my discouragement :)

 

Wow, do we know the same person or people? I have a student who after a year hated the Taoist path because she realized that what she really wanted was to dance again and that being a fighter wasn't what she wanted nor was it what she was doing anyway sitting, standing, and doing a seven-move form. 

 

It also makes me wonder, not talking about MegaMind and his group specifically, but people who are drawn to the Mo Pai practice. It seems almost all of them just want power, but towards what end? 

 

From what I recall, a lot of people in MegaMind's group in their filtering process tend to hate people who want to learn the instructions they have from Jim and company purely for power. An example is if someone claims they want to be able to fight, they tell them to learn BJJ or MMA, or if they want power, they tell them something along the lines of a generic 12-step course. 

 

Kind of interesting how Jim's informal students have their own views of restricting the admittedly weirder people looking for Mo Pai, who have no affiliation with either Jim's friends or official students of the school in Java.

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