More interesting topics please

[Mudfoot]

There have been an increase of nei dan threads lately. And, like in some Mo Pai threads, some of the major players seems to have prior knowledge of each other, and an axe or two to grind.

In the end: Booring!

 

It would be really nice if you would instead turn your attention into more practical aspects of the arts.

 

As when you write about the two baguas.

For those of us that are genuinely interested and not part of a nei dan Pai, is there something useful you are prepared to discuss?

 

Like how you consider the trigrams useful in practice, any area that might be useful to study for non-initiates, or whatever. :-)

 

Btw, I am going to use OP as soon as I get it (do I have enough posts?) to delete side-tracks, nasty comments and irrelevant posts. Feel free to report me if you disagree.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Mudfoot

[LaoZiDao]

Well, the most interesting thing is Neidan.

 

After all, it's what Daoism is about, it's the core. To discuss Daoism without considering Neidan aspect, is almost like not talking about Daoism at all.

[Arkady Shadursky]

Hello Mudfoot,

Thank you for your suggestion.

Actually, yes we are going to discuss several interesting topics here on TDB.

While I'm writing this message they are probably being translated from Russian. We do plan to contribute constructively, so just please have a little patience ☺️

Thank you.

---

Best Regards,

Arkady

[A.A.Khokhlov]

Ok. We probably can finally go forth. Its nice and I have a question to Administration here:

 

Can we now expect to be able to make a balanced meaningful talk without being continuousely attacked by "Taoist Texts", "awaken" or any other forum members? Can I expect moderators team respect me and my students the same way as other members and would keep any personal attacks on us off the forum?

 

We are going to contribute greatly to the Taoist Community on the West but we need a clean site to start on.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

Edited December 14, 2016 by A.A.Khokhlov

[awaken]

Why not build your own site?

 

I believe your student will respect you very much in your own site.

 

But I will not go to your site.

 

Sorry.

 

Who is your "true" teacher?

[Mudfoot]

Yes, the most interesting subject is Nei Dan. But I doubt anyone is going to write much about the practical aspects, so lets keep it at the peripheral or preparatory stages, those that you are not uncomfortable to discuss.

[dawei]

Ok. We probably can finally go forth. Its nice and I have a question to Administration here:

 

Can we now expect to be able to make a balanced meaningful talk without being continuousely attacked by "Taoist Texts", "awaken" or any other forum members? Can I expect moderators team respect me and my students the same way as other members and would keep any personal attacks on us off the forum?

 

We are going to contribute greatly to the Taoist Community on the West but we need a clean site to start on.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

 

I have some reservations that the group that seems to gather here that includes the two recently suspended and others who jump into these threads can meaningfully contribute here.  Why ?   

 

There are many reasons but a few:

1. Seems most all of you have no idea how you create problems while reporting stuff left and right.

2. You come to this site in mass and then try to take control of threads and demand folks to answer you.   That is not how most people act as a guest at someone's home, for example.

3. The intentional nature of showing up in mass occurs over and over and shows you are not trying to really contribute but gang up on folks.   We have many folks here who argue and disagree but they are not trying to intentionally gang up as a group and push someone off the site.

 

Only time wll tell if you all have enough restraint to be participants and not a group with the intention to just call out folks, including staff.  I can tell you in advance the latter will not fly.

 

The group should worry less about the staff actions then your own.

 

Thank you for this consideration.

[exorcist_1699]

Taoism is a huge system involves many areas  , neidan is only one of  the topics among them . Regretfully , most of the readers here can't read Chinese  ...; even so , even people here can't discuss the  differences between the Middle School and West School , even  that  only a small portion of  of them know Wu-Liu  and be entangled by it , so  sad it is ... yet  there are still many issues that are left  untouched , for example :

 

1) Since all superb Taoist alchemical  ways are  related to cosmology , an arena of  modern physics,  why people don't  pay more attention  to it ? Taoism views human body as a miniature of the much bigger cosmos, so there likely is  somewhat   relation/similarity  in between the Magic gateway ('玄關')  , the most important issue in neidan practice , and the black/white hole ?

 

2)  The  highest Taoist  achievement is said to be  attaining  Shen, a special form of Wisdom ,   what is its relation to  AI or other forms of human intelligence , even to  the  iOT ?  

 

3)  Taoist daozhan (collection of Taoist classics )  is so huge that to exploit it involves issues of text mining and big data , anybody ever thinks of  talking about it ?  

 

4) Forever  youth is what Taoism affirms , it involves issues of skin care, regeneration , DNA.. that seldom people here  touch.

 

5) Acupuncture  nowadays is widely applied on animals/pets  : dog ,cat ..when they get sick ,  but can  it be applied on a parrot , dolphin or  octopus ? What forms of distribution of qi on them ? Say,  how the DU channel runs on an octopus ?  What acupuncture points we should choose when curing a starfish ?What is its relation to biological holography  ?

 

Just raise some of them  so that this post not appears too tedious. In fact, I view Taoism as a system challenges every aspect of Western knowledge system ,and what the real destiny of Chinese civilization should look and provide ... there are a lot of topics for people to write about .

Edited December 15, 2016 by exorcist_1699

[effilang]

1) Since all superb Taoist alchemical  ways are  related to cosmology , an arena of  modern physics,  why people don't  pay more attention  to it ? Taoism views human body as a miniature of the much bigger cosmos, so there likely is  somewhat   relation/similarity  in between the Magic gateway ('玄關')  , the most important issue in neidan practice , and the black/white hole ?

 

Dao > Wuji > Taiji

 

Taiji = All physical phenomena, both particle and wave. Planets, Moons, Stars, Galaxies and Universes and Black Holes, are all part of Taiji.

 

Xuan Guang is an opening to Wuji, not Taiji; so material things cannot pass through it, but awareness can.

 

2)  The  highest Taoist  achievement is said to be  attaining  Shen, a special form of Wisdom ,   what is its relation to  AI or other forms of human intelligence , even to  the  iOT ?  

 

It has a personal local aspect which relates to your own personal experiences ie: past lives, memories, talents, emotions.

It has a global aspect which relates to the collective consciousness of the Dao and absolute truths, which can be accessed directly.

It has a foreign local aspects which relates to the experiences of other souls, which can be accessed on request and at the discretion of the respective soul.

 

Human Intelligence is the result of data collected by the 5 senses of the body which generate idea, memory, belief clusters that layer over one another over the years. The first to be created during our formative years, usually 3 to 6 years, are the most important, because once those layers are built up, every other new stream of data that is snapshotted has to traverse through this medium of relative ideas. So the new relative beliefs have to refract through the old relative beliefs. In other words the rate at which we lose our connection to our Yuan Xing is not linear, it is exponential.

 

AI is just AI, you know what that is. It's a product of human intelligence, but it lacks WILL and VOLITION.

Even at its highest point, it will always function as 1s and 0s, no matter how much information it can reference and connect to give the appearance of genuine intelligence. It will always lack the essence of spirit which is something which few people can achieve, talk less of reverse engineering it to infuse an AI. The only way I see that happening is if somehow DNA was manipulated to rewire the seat of a humans organic intellect to that of an AI core and then use that DNA to conjoin an egg with a sperm and let spirit do what it does and develop a biological organism which is a hybrid between organics and electronics. It's theoretically possible. The only problem is that the AI probably couldn't keep up with the amount of information that is being processed by our senses every second of the day. Where would it store it? How would the Yuan Shen upload the information from the AI to record it as it does other former life experiences? Will it be dull and stupid due to its inability to process information quickly enough? Who knows. Science will tell us one day.

 

3)  Taoist daozhan (collection of Taoist classics )  is so huge that to exploit it involves issues of text mining and big data , anybody ever thinks of  talking about it ?  

 

That would be a waste of time to me. At the most it would be entertaining.

 

4) Forever  youth is what Taoism affirms , it involves issues of skin care, regeneration , DNA.. that seldom people here  touch.

 

Modern science is innovating very successfully in all these fields. I reckon in another 50 years, the only thing that will prevent people from living for a very very long time, say another 50 or 100 years on top of their current age, will be primarily money.

 

Daoism stagnated for a VERY long time. I always say that if you look back at the sages. They were always innovating, introducing new ideas, introducing new inventions and EVOLVING culture. That was several thousand years ago. Look at Daoism today. What advances have we made? Still sitting around 3000 years later, discussing the old master's books. What a god damn shame. Then again, if we're so stupid that after several millenia we still can't agree on one thing, we sure as hell aren't gonna innovate, lol.

 

If any of these ancient schools that claim their members never die were so genuine, we would have heard about it in the news and science would have started investigating it. Alas, we know where we stand.

 

At the end of the day. It's not about how much time we have, but how we use it. If we assume most people will have an average life, its more than enough to make some very very solid work in cultivation.

 

5) Acupuncture  nowadays is widely applied on animals/pets  : dog ,cat ..when they get sick ,  but can  it be applied on a parrot , dolphin or  octopus ? What forms of distribution of qi on them ? Say,  how the DU channel runs on an octopus ?  What acupuncture points we should choose when curing a dolphin ?What is its relation to biological holography  ?

 

From what I know it is being done in veterinary acupuncture, even for dolphins. Who managed to map the acupuncture system of these animals and when did it happen? Who knows. It's a good thing the animals can't speak....

Edited December 14, 2016 by effilang

[KuroShiro]

Taoism is a huge system involves many areas  , neidan is only one of  the topics among them . Regretfully , most of the readers here can't read Chinese  ...; even so , even people here can't discuss the  differences between the Middle School and West School , even  that  only a small portion of  of them know Wu-Liu  and be entangled by it , so  sad it is ... yet  there are still many issues that are left  untouched , for example :

 

1) Since all superb Taoist alchemical  ways are  related to cosmology , an arena of  modern physics,  why people don't  pay more attention  to it ? Taoism views human body as a miniature of the much bigger cosmos, so there likely is  somewhat   relation/similarity  in between the Magic gateway ('玄關')  , the most important issue in neidan practice , and the black/white hole ?

 

2)  The  highest Taoist  achievement is said to be  attaining  Shen, a special form of Wisdom ,   what is its relation to  AI or other forms of human intelligence , even to  the  iOT ?  

 

3)  Taoist daozhan (collection of Taoist classics )  is so huge that to exploit it involves issues of text mining and big data , anybody ever thinks of  talking about it ?  

 

4) Forever  youth is what Taoism affirms , it involves issues of skin care, regeneration , DNA.. that seldom people here  touch.

 

5) Acupuncture  nowadays is widely applied on animals/pets  : dog ,cat ..when they get sick ,  but can  it be applied on a parrot , dolphin or  octopus ? What forms of distribution of qi on them ? Say,  how the DU channel runs on an octopus ?  What acupuncture points we should choose when curing a starfish ?What is its relation to biological holography  ?

 

Just raise some of them  so that this post not appears too tedious. In fact, I view Taoism as a system challenges every aspect of Western knowledge system ,and what the real destiny of Chinese civilization should look and provide ... people, especially overseas Chinese,  do have many jobs to do...

 

 

Some questions for you from a beginner student's perspective:

 

I've read that Taoism is a relatively recent creation when taking in account Chinese history, there was no Taoism when the more ancient Taoist Classic Texts were written right?

 

Classical Acupuncture also predates Taoism. Is there a missing link/lost knowledge since some-point in ancient times up until the creation of Taoism?

 

What about the identification of Lao Zi with Buddha and the interplay between Buddhism and Taoism?

 

Can one study Taoism without studying Buddhism?

 

 

There's a legend about the creation of acupuncture, some guy was struck by an arrow (in the leg?) and that eased or stopped a pain he had elsewhere. Animals don't speak and I don't think they are mentioned in the Classics of Chinese Medicine so vets probably aren't doing Acupuncture, they're doing something else.

Edited December 14, 2016 by KuroShiro

[Andrei]

 

5) Acupuncture  nowadays is widely applied on animals/pets  : dog ,cat ..when they get sick ,  but can  it be applied on a parrot , dolphin or  octopus ? What forms of distribution of qi on them ? Say,  how the DU channel runs on an octopus ?  What acupuncture points we should choose when curing a starfish ?What is its relation to biological holography  ?

 

Acupuncture is scientifically demonstrated that works by ionizing the serotonin and stimulating its production and distribution through the channels that were recently discovered (seen by microscope) by some south korean scientists as some anatomical microtubules. But the thing is that serotonin is produced by all animals that have brains and it is well known that electric eels produce high voltages of electricity by using some specialized organs in their skin that produce the serotonin. So yes, to be evolving and innovating, all it takes is to read and learn some other things, not only "texts" in the original language. There are many languages on this planet and many discoverers and innovators, not only the "daoists".  

[Andrei]

 

 

4. The Iceman was inked.

Ötzi's frozen mummy preserves a fine collection of Copper Age tattoos. Numbering over 50 in total, they cover him from head to foot. These weren't produced using a needle, but by making fine cuts in the skin and then rubbing in charcoal. The result was a series of lines and crosses mostly located on parts of the body that are prone to injury or pain, such as the joints and along the back. This has led some researchers to believe that the tattoos marked acupuncture points.

If so, Ötzi must have needed a lot of treatment, which, given his age and ailments, isn't so surprising. The oldest evidence for acupuncture, Ötzi's tattoos suggest that the practice was around at least 2,000 years earlier than previously thought.

 

Otzi the Iceman 

[damdao]

Acupuncture is scientifically demonstrated that works by ionizing the serotonin and stimulating its production and distribution through the channels that were recently discovered (seen by microscope) by some south korean scientists as some anatomical microtubules.

Can you elaborate a bit about that?

Or, post a link?

[Wu Ming Jen]

The physical realm and bagua 3 yang ward off forward expanding power, summer, fire done physically. 3 yin rollback and  moving energy backwards and down, contracting, water it should all be interchangeable.

 

The five steps to move forward we push off the back leg to move backwards we push off the front leg the center earth makes the changes possible forward and back are one, life and death are one, men and woman are one all polar complete opposites are one. Difference creates sameness..  

 

We can physically prove all concepts and principles of Taoism physically. Life and death are one just by moving in the five steps.

 

Neidan should always be balanced and tested constantly in the physical realm. A discussion forum can be used as check and balance to make sure we do not attract things and then say it is rude of other and not take responsibility.

 

I would like to hear about different sets that make people happy and feel good for no reason other than doing.. 

[exorcist_1699]

Some questions for you from a beginner student's perspective:

 

 

What about the identification of Lao Zi with Buddha and the interplay between Buddhism and Taoism?

 

Can one study Taoism without studying Buddhism?

 

 

 

In practice there are many elements in both systems that they can borrow each other ; as long as those elements are beneficial , I find  no reasons,   say because they get  different views about  the world ,not  to adopt ,even mix , good parts of them.

Not studying Buddhism,  for some other academic reason , say  you are doing a philosophical study on Taoism,  is another story. In that case,  you may prefer  to chop off the influence of Buddhism on Taoism . 

Edited December 15, 2016 by exorcist_1699

[exorcist_1699]

Acupuncture is scientifically demonstrated that works by ionizing the serotonin and stimulating its production and distribution through the channels that were recently discovered (seen by microscope) by some south korean scientists as some anatomical microtubules. But the thing is that serotonin is produced by all animals that have brains and it is well known that electric eels produce high voltages of electricity by using some specialized organs in their skin that produce the serotonin. So yes, to be evolving and innovating, all it takes is to read and learn some other things, not only "texts" in the original language. There are many languages on this planet and many discoverers and innovators, not only the "daoists".  

 

Really ?

 

I only find  two systems :

 

One based on the study and manipulation  of particle, atom ,magnetic field,molecule, cell, organ..

 

One based on  the study and manipulation of jing, qi , meridians, shen..

 

Please tell me what other system , for example , that a whole society can build her medical system on ? 

Edited December 16, 2016 by exorcist_1699