3bob Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) sooner or later (so to speak) and always at the turning of the cosmic cycle... Edited July 9, 2016 by 3bob 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted July 9, 2016 Because the path to enlightenment is so painful (to me) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted July 9, 2016 agreed Bindi - in the sense of and the price of the "going it alone aspect", which is or seems to be part of the case although only a part since there are many helping hands and allies along the way, also the friction of being in the world but trying not to be of worldly driven ways... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jetsun Posted July 9, 2016 Because we don't want enlightenment, we want to be the king of our own individual little Kingdom 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted July 9, 2016 1)What is enlightenment in practical and empirical terms? 2)Why should it be inevitable? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted July 9, 2016 1)What is enlightenment in practical and empirical terms? 2)Why should it be inevitable? Well, I did say "Question Everything", didn't I? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted July 9, 2016 why is "enlightenment" inevitable, well I'd say that since the turning of the cosmic cycle is inevitable then all beings in that cycle will end up RETURN-ing with that cycle in one way or another since they can not be outside of or separate from it. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) The "journey" completely appears as something it is not. The prior journey is truely an illusion. Your story is an animation written by the characters. Edited July 9, 2016 by Spotless 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted July 9, 2016 Well, I did say "Question Everything", didn't I? Surely better than assuming the existence of improbable transcendent states which are poorly explained (for example, enlightenment) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gerard Posted July 9, 2016 Because the path to enlightenment is so painful (to me) You are making it painful. If you follow the path of wu wei (not doing, letting things happen of their own accord without force) and wu xin (no mind, don't think too much, learn from children's, birds, butterflies, etc. spontaneity) you'll find things a lot easier. Keeping enlightenment in mind already causes a mental block. I am constantly reminding this to myself since I am a Fire Horse, so you can imagine. Go with the flow, like this: Floating leaf 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted July 9, 2016 Nice. But always be alert for the sound of waterfalls. Those are best viewed from the bank of the stream or river. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted July 9, 2016 "going with the flow" could also mean one being pushed willy-nilly, here and there, if misunderstood or applied - thus to me one must really go against the flow to go with the flow - which is demonstrated by great masters with their indomitable will that is not pushed willy-nilly by wind or water or other forces anywhere... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) Willfulness is perhaps the greatest block. Edited July 9, 2016 by Spotless Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) ego type willfulness yes, while will harnessed for and with spirit no... Edited July 9, 2016 by 3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted July 9, 2016 Going with the flow is not in reference to the flow of peoples. It is not sleep walking and the reference to the willy nilly. It is the presence of oneness. In oneness their is no "against the flow". 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) which is why I mentioned such as being conditional upon understanding and application - which can be co-opted incorrectly via willy-nilly fluff or puff indulgences like those of Osho farm in Oregon (in the 80's) and by hundreds of other pied pipers along such lines... also and esoterically there is a flow that is against the flow of downstream current, which is the "return" current or upstream flow. (so to speak) Edited July 9, 2016 by 3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted July 9, 2016 You are making it painful. If you follow the path of wu wei (not doing, letting things happen of their own accord without force) and wu xin (no mind, don't think too much, learn from children's, birds, butterflies, etc. spontaneity) you'll find things a lot easier. Keeping enlightenment in mind already causes a mental block. I am constantly reminding this to myself since I am a Fire Horse, so you can imagine. Go with the flow, like this: Floating leaf Going against the flow of ego is what is painful to me, refusing to use ego defences to protect myself from my emotional hijackers, allowing how many lifetimes of fear to be felt and defused, and shame, and sadness, and anger, and anxiety. Because when I no longer have to use ego to defend myself against them, then ego won’t have a job to do at all. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted July 9, 2016 Going against the flow of ego is what is painful to me, refusing to use ego defences to protect myself from my emotional hijackers, allowing how many lifetimes of fear to be felt and defused, and shame, and sadness, and anger, and anxiety. Because when I no longer have to use ego to defend myself against them, then ego won’t have a job to do at all. Going against the flow of attachment would be to release attachment. All of your pasts are attachment to that which does not exist - your ego is the emotional hijacker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted July 9, 2016 Facing clearly and not shying away from my own untruths is painful. Shocking and acutely painful to witness the patterns of selfishness and repeated words and actions that support pure illusion which encapsulated nearly every action and perception of others, as for decades I blamed the external for what I projected in the state of illusion. Gratitude for the seemingly inevitable fatigue that resulted from the process of the selfish illusion that rested in moments of unavoidable clarity and stillness. Gratitude for the unshakable impetus to no longer turn away from what is and three cheers to being in the world, but not of it. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted July 9, 2016 Going against the flow of attachment would be to release attachment. All of your pasts are attachment to that which does not exist - your ego is the emotional hijacker. I believe my ego tries to defend me from feeling pain, that the whole structure is an elaborate and misguided defence mechanism against pain. Having tolerated the negative aspect of each hijacker allows the positive aspect to flow as freely, so that all of my pasts will be resolved, not non existent. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted July 9, 2016 "not non-existent", a very good point Bindi since one would otherwise be like a newborn baby without any experience and thus no hard earned wisdom coming from dealing with said experience. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted July 9, 2016 Instead of enlightenment I would posit the development and growth of the golden embryo or the non dual Self as the inevitable achievement, since enlightenment may be too attached to the idea of dissolution of Self. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted July 9, 2016 Instead of enlightenment I would posit the development and growth of the golden embryo or the non dual Self as the inevitable achievement, since enlightenment may be too attached to the idea of dissolution of Self. ok, although I'd say that the "non-dual Self" (aka Brahman in Hinduism) needs no development for it already is and always complete... (perhaps that which Spotless was alluding to earlier?) yet the matrix for it to fully manifest needs full development. As for Buddhist concepts (if that is what you meant?) regarding dissolution of "Self" or self I won't get into that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted July 10, 2016 ok, although I'd say that the "non-dual Self" (aka Brahman in Hinduism) needs no development for it already is and always complete... (perhaps that which Spotless was alluding to earlier?) yet the matrix for it to fully manifest needs full development. As for Buddhist concepts (if that is what you meant?) regarding dissolution of "Self" or self I won't get into that. Or the ego matrix which restricts Self needs to be removed. This is my current understanding at least. But the golden embryo develops, and is not already complete, so I have to choose between two philosophies. Interesting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) or one could also think of the ego as a cocoon serving a purpose, thus not getting to bugged about it Edited July 10, 2016 by 3bob 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites