who is tired of all this crap?

[Nikolai1]

Soul age becomes a particulary useful handle when we see children and teenagers with wise moral judgement and their parents angry and selfisly indignant.

 

Or we see children with leaukaemia calmly and serenely approaching death - an insiration to all around.  On the other hand, the Buddhist writer Steve Hagen told about wokring with a 95 year old woman, terminally ill, but bewildered and asking God 'why me?'

 

There is a trajectory to life.  With time we generally become wiser, more ethical and more compassionate.  Some pass through this trajecotry very quickly and can surpass others decades older,

[Karl]

Soul age becomes a particulary useful handle when we see children and teenagers with wise moral judgement and their parents angry and selfisly indignant.

 

Or we see children with leaukaemia calmly and serenely approaching death - an insiration to all around.  On the other hand, the Buddhist writer Steve Hagen told about wokring with a 95 year old woman, terminally ill, but bewildered and asking God 'why me?'

 

There is a trajectory to life.  With time we generally become wiser, more ethical and more compassionate.  Some pass through this trajecotry very quickly and can surpass others decades older,

 

We definitely agree on something then :-)

I won't argue about soul age as that's something you believe in, but as long as the washing comes out clean who cares if it's fairy dust or soap flakes eh ? ;-)

[Nikolai1]

We definitely agree on something then :-) I won't argue about soul age as that's something you believe in, but as long as the washing comes out clean who cares if it's fairy dust or soap flakes eh ? ;-)

I certainly don't believe in it, except in a quite light loose sort of way...but:

 

I've certainly become more open to this as my sense of identity has shifted from being a guy in time and space, to a being in which time and space happens.

 

Also, because I hold truths with a much lighter grasp at the logical level, I am more interested in the emotional and moral benefits to certain theories.  This is my new determinant of truth: the sincere and kind act is the truer act.

 

I really like the soul age theory because it has no place for divisive moral judgement.  We can see people behavng immaturely but we don't get angry.  We just accept them as they are: just as we accept that children like to build lego and not real grown-up houses.  Or we accept the beauty of the blossom in the orchard, and don't lament the fact that they aren't yet apples.

[AussieTrees]

Thankyou dawei,no car radio.

Thought I was the only one.

[Marblehead]

It all depends on how you relate to it. To me the world seems to get better and better, in the long run.

I sure am glad to see some optimism now and again.  All too often reality screws up my optimistic perspectives.

[Marblehead]

the gunman didn't care about gun laws except that it made him powerful and the rest defenceless victims.

Thereon lies the problem.  Criminals don't obey the laws.  In your country only criminals and police are allowed to have guns.

[Marblehead]

Thankyou dawei,no car radio.

Thought I was the only one.

Although I have a radio in both my vehicles there is no antenna attached.  (See?  I learned something from Buddhism.)  However, each radio has a CD player and that is what I use to listen to what I want to listen to.

[Karl]

I certainly don't believe in it, except in a quite light loose sort of way...but:

 

I've certainly become more open to this as my sense of identity has shifted from being a guy in time and space, to a being in which time and space happens.

 

Also, because I hold truths with a much lighter grasp at the logical level, I am more interested in the emotional and moral benefits to certain theories. This is my new determinant of truth: the sincere and kind act is the truer act.

 

I really like the soul age theory because it has no place for divisive moral judgement. We can see people behavng immaturely but we don't get angry. We just accept them as they are: just as we accept that children like to build lego and not real grown-up houses. Or we accept the beauty of the blossom in the orchard, and don't lament the fact that they aren't yet apples.

Ok but you realise it is a class defining theory. It's the caste system ? The underclass of subhuman souls and the divine right of Kings. It's a system of control-A matrix of management to allow those who are at the upper end to take the productive effirts of those at the lower end. Each soul class takes from the next and holds their place in the hierarchy.

 

It is a way of absolving those souls higher up the chain by rationalising their actions as overlords. They can instead be seen as altruistic creators, a ruling class of superior nobles simply fitting into the system.

 

Now, say there was one, a type that didn't subscribe to the notion of hierarchy, an anomaly, a freak outside the system, but one aware of the systems of all the systems of control-occult or not. Why, then, that sort of person would see no difference between King and barbarian or, mature soul to immature soul. That sort of person would seek to bring down the foundations with the light of knowledge to expose the system so that those at the bottom might make a choice.

 

You are wandering in a desert trying to make sense of the world. Trying to string together obscure, ancient and modern, to form a pattern. You are seeking to understand that which you are ever so dimly aware of through an education system which has cut out your eyes and blocked your ears to anything but their message. You are trying to rebel against it, to find a better way, but you don't know what you are rebelling against, it's a shadow that cannot be grasped because you do not have the tools to grasp it. You are slowly but surely inserting yourself back in the mainframe, because all paths lead to the ideology of non identity-subjection to the one. It doesn't feel like subjection, it isn't meant to, it's supposed to feel like home/safety/caring/the common good/unity. The maze is a good one, it was designed by the best minds, the most powerful wizards, the wealthy, the egotistical, self righteous tyrants. it is expected you would reject the very idea that you could be caught up in it, because they use your ego to bind you into a total disbelief that you could possibly fall for their manipulation. Yet fall you have.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Karl

[dust]

Shooting straight under pressure is more useful I would think in a gunfight, certainly second to having a loaded, working and accurate weapon and being able to use it. It's one of the skills I would like to learn and if it wasn't such an onerous process in the UK then I would definitely have a gun. I think it's important to know how to defend yourself should the need arise. We do like to go on about our lack of gun 'culture' over here, but when the TV shows pictures of fragile old people raped, then beaten half to death in their own homes, I can't help thinking they would have been safer with a weapon. I thought the same when all those tourists were shot on the beach in Tunisia-fish in a barrel-the gunman didn't care about gun laws except that it made him powerful and the rest defenceless victims.

 

At risk of derailing the thread..

 

Firstly: in case it wasn't apparent, the tuck and roll thing was a little jest...

 

Secondly: the evidence shows, clearly and beyond doubt, that (in terms of violence/murder) the UK is a safer place overall than the USA. We are at far less risk of violent abuse and murder. Any 'statistics' that claim otherwise have been very much skewed or taken out of context.

 

I fully realize that this is not entirely down to gun control, but either way, I'm very happy that we have the gun laws that we do... God knows what kind of extra trouble would pop up if handguns were more freely available.

[Karl]

At risk of derailing the thread..

 

Firstly: in case it wasn't apparent, the tuck and roll thing was a little jest...

 

Secondly: the evidence shows, clearly and beyond doubt, that (in terms of violence/murder) the UK is a safer place overall than the USA. We are at far less risk of violent abuse and murder. Any 'statistics' that claim otherwise have been very much skewed or taken out of context.

 

I fully realize that this is not entirely down to gun control, but either way, I'm very happy that we have the gun laws that we do... God knows what kind of extra trouble would pop up if handguns were more freely available.

 

All I will say is your argument is flawed. It's too much to go into purely because of statistics and that the UK is a different country from the U.S. It's not as clear cut as you might like to think, but you are entitled to your opinion. I would rather have access to firearms without registration and I'm as peaceful as a peaceful thing. It's unlikely I would ever need to use a weapon, but then, it's unlikely I will ever need my home insurance, alarm system, locks and bolts...but I have them anyway. Trust in God but tie up your camels. If something goes wrong in the UK, as it did in Ferguson in the U.S. When the Police refused to protect the businesses and homes of the innocent then what would you do ?

[Marblehead]

At risk of derailing the thread..

Too late.  No worry.

 

Firstly: in case it wasn't apparent, the tuck and roll thing was a little jest...

But still useful in some circumstances.

 

 

Secondly: the evidence shows, clearly and beyond doubt, that (in terms of violence/murder) the UK is a safer place overall than the USA. We are at far less risk of violent abuse and murder. Any 'statistics' that claim otherwise have been very much skewed or taken out of context.

I won't argue the statistics.  But then, if the UK hadn't sent all its criminals here before they started sending them to Australia we wouldn't have near as much violence as we have.  And if they hadn't transported so many slaves here from Africa the Black/White problem here wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.

 

I fully realize that this is not entirely down to gun control, but either way, I'm very happy that we have the gun laws that we do... God knows what kind of extra trouble would pop up if handguns were more freely available.

Yep.  There are extremely violent people in the UK.  That's why their guns were taken away from them.  Of course, now the people cannot revolt against an unjust government.  Taking a knife to a gun fight just doesn't work well.

[Nikolai1]

Ok but you realise it is a class defining theory. It's the caste system ? 

You are right to point out the danger, but it's only a danger if the maturer souls start to think of themselves as maturer and take advantage of that.

 

In practice, it is completely self-limiting.  Old souls are so tired and weary that they have neither desire nor motivation to do anything except their private spiritual work.  It is the younger souls who get kicks from all the overlordery...and that is the precise situation we see every day. Young souls are the movers and shakers of the world. And these young souls are the least likely to see the merit of soul maturity theory.

 

The maze is a good one, it was designed by the best minds, the most powerful wizards, the wealthy, the egotistical, self righteous tyrants. it is expected you would reject the very idea that you could be caught up in it, because they use your ego to bind you into a total disbelief that you could possibly fall for their manipulation. Yet fall you have. 

 

Rather than all these dark oracular warnings, I think it's high time you describe in detail the specific predicament we are in and how you have found out about it?

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

",,,anyone can do what they want to do and then maybe land in the slammer, see their  kids in custody of the state and maybe themselves  standing in the soup lines at the local holy roller missions... but in a way I agree with you, although such an idea taken out of context of worldly needs and issues and certain other things that have to be dealt with realistically is something a person with no commitment's or responsibilities does - aka a slacker who is often living on or off someone else's dime."

-----

 

So this look like if someone does what they want to do, the State will actually force their compliance?

 

And might "worldly needs and issues" actually be the needs and issues of the State?

 

Like maybe the need to have compliant citizens who believe in their responsibility to the State?

 

Because the actual "World" isn't like that.

 

The first breath we took - did we pay for that?

 

The World is giving all life for free.

 

It's not even like Life is on sale or at a discount - the World is functioning totally bereft of any financial concern.

 

So this is really the result of extensive Mind Control, and the adoption of "non-worldly" or "un-worldly" prompts in place of contact within the real World.

 

It's a false world of ideas and concepts, a conjob, and a loss for all Life.

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Karl]

You are right to point out the danger, but it's only a danger if the maturer souls start to think of themselves as maturer and take advantage of that.

 

In practice, it is completely self-limiting.  Old souls are so tired and weary that they have neither desire nor motivation to do anything except their private spiritual work.  It is the younger souls who get kicks from all the overlordery...and that is the precise situation we see every day. Young souls are the movers and shakers of the world. And these young souls are the least likely to see the merit of soul maturity theory.

 

 

 

Rather than all these dark oracular warnings, I think it's high time you describe in detail the specific predicament we are in and how you have found out about it?

 

Well I will just call them 'young' and 'inexperienced' but they aren't just self satiated, they are looking outside themselves at all times. At one time they venerated the elders in their families and their wisdom, but that's sadly getting broken down. The state does not want families interfering in their social planning. The old are most often regarded as blithering idiots and carted off to the old folks home whilst the family carves up the inheritance. Trouble is, in most cases the old folk are a product of the same system anyway and have little wisdom to give. I don't know if you ever catch adverts for the old, but they are shown as silly teenagers in wrinkly suits.

 

Like they said in the Matrix 'no one can tell you what the matrix is, you have to see it for yourself'. It's not even hidden, but it is dense and complex. Things that look good can be bad. Take TTIP for instance. It's free trade right ? ( so good for the true liberal ) but then it's harmonised state regulation ( good for the left ). Same goose different feathers. Can't have one without the other so you get both. It appeals equally to the nationalistic instinct and the global collective, but neither are completely fooled and so it a 'compromise'. A synthesis of the Hegelian dialectic.

 

You may describe it as a predicament will depend completely on your personal view point. To some people a prison represents the ultimate in security. That's why I said in my diatribe that you must have totally free choice. To make the choice you have first to have absorbed the tools which will allow it to happen-that's the trivium method. Make sure it's that and not the classic trivium or independent logic.

 

Of course this is an earthbound situation. If you go off on esoteric enterprises then that might be where the secrets lie I cannot say what is there, personally I found nothing but a scrubby path that led straight back to the main road. It was a long detour in which I took in my sights and experienced many new things. Maybe you will find the path goes further I don't know that it doesn't.

[Karl]

Re:

-----

",,,anyone can do what they want to do and then maybe land in the slammer, see their  kids in custody of the state and maybe themselves  standing in the soup lines at the local holy roller missions... but in a way I agree with you, although such an idea taken out of context of worldly needs and issues and certain other things that have to be dealt with realistically is something a person with no commitment's or responsibilities does - aka a slacker who is often living on or off someone else's dime."

-----

 

So this look like if someone does what they want to do, the State will actually force their compliance?

 

And might "worldly needs and issues" actually be the needs and issues of the State?

 

Like maybe the need to have compliant citizens who believe in their responsibility to the State?

 

Because the actual "World" isn't like that.

 

The first breath we took - did we pay for that?

 

The World is giving all life for free.

 

It's not even like Life is on sale or at a discount - the World is functioning totally bereft of any financial concern.

 

So this is really the result of extensive Mind Control, and the adoption of "non-worldly" or "un-worldly" prompts in place of contact within the real World.

 

It's a false world of ideas and concepts, a conjob, and a loss for all Life.

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

:-) sometimes I read something like this and suddenly it all doesn't seem quite so hopeless. Thank you VKH.

[Rara]

Sure. I've always liked the idea of being a vigilante.

 

Not sure what skills I can offer. I've been practising my tuck and roll recently...that seems quite important in gun fights..

You're hired....I kinda don't know anyone with ANY skills.

[Rara]

 

Americans do not understand (hell I don't think many in this forums understand) that you eat not only your food, but whatsoever it is you are focused on. The energy in the food when it was harvested or killed. The energy of others in the room (like my grandma's constant complaining about how she can't chew something and the stress between her and my mom.) All that (mostly) negative energy is getting digested right with your food! And you wonder how you get cancer, yet some smokers go their whole lives with no ill effects.

 

I'm not totally in agreement with "negative" energy of food consumed.

 

Mind over matter however...

 

For example, if one can smoke and not get cancer (which I would say that if you fear cancer because of anti-smoking campaigns, you stand more chance of getting it) then you can eat supposed negative food and not feel/experience the effect.

 

Ok it's bro-science, but the power of psychology is pretty well tested.

[3bob]

Obviously all beings have to work and struggle in one way or another... which is a universal given for all forms of beings.

So it is not work and struggle per-se that is a problem (far from it) but the motives related to same that can and do arise.

 

For instance the struggle to survive with elemental or natural types of forces that are fair and impartial to all beings is not something any sane being could or should harp about... it's when certain forces manipulate the hell out of things for their own benefit at the expense of others that bring us into war like conditions.   Also thinking that we can just turn off the radio or TV and forget about certain forces will only keep them "out of mind" until the day they are knocking on our door and then blowing the hell out our private lives.  (for "the barbarians are at the gate", a.k.a. certain forces and or crap, and can only be held back through eternal vigilance along with dharmic workings)

[Marblehead]

Obviously all beings have to work and struggle in one way or another... which is a universal given for all forms of beings.

Yes, darn it!  Just because one retires doesn't mean that their work is done.  Seems that our work is never done until we take our last breath.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"Obviously all beings have to work and struggle in one way or another... which is a universal given for all forms of beings."

-----

 

I understand this concept - but is it really true?

 

Are all beings really working and struggling to survive?

 

Does anything in Nature actually understand our ideas of work and struggle at all?

 

Are chemical reactions all working and struggling to happen?

 

Is the Earth working and struggling to circle the Sun?

 

Are birds actually working and struggling as they fly overhead?

 

-----

"Also thinking that we can just turn off the radio or TV and forget about certain forces will only keep them "out of mind" until the day they are knocking on our door and then blowing the hell out our private lives."

-----

 

So this would be the "forces" of greed, manipulations, and so forth?

 

Same way, maybe these "forces" are the ones that conquered huge areas and subjugated them, divided them, and sells them?

 

Seems more like it was just people who believe in such forces who did that.

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[dust]

All I will say is your argument is flawed. It's too much to go into purely because of statistics and that the UK is a different country from the U.S. It's not as clear cut as you might like to think, but you are entitled to your opinion.

 

Well thanks

 

No, it's not clear cut, but the statistics are undeniable. I'm not suggesting a direct causal relationship between guns and violence, but rather that [a] it is obvious that we are not subject to as much gun violence as people in the US, and it is also apparent that we are less subject to other forms of violence, and this could well be partly due to less of a weapon-loving culture.

 

 

It's unlikely I would ever need to use a weapon, but then, it's unlikely I will ever need my home insurance, alarm system, locks and bolts...but I have them anyway.

 

Yes..and they can't hurt people..

 

 

If something goes wrong in the UK, as it did in Ferguson in the U.S. When the Police refused to protect the businesses and homes of the innocent then what would you do ?

 

I have never relied on the police, and I intend not to. If people come around here being violent I will be violent right back. But people are far less likely to, and if they do are far less likely to cause so much harm because they don't have instant access to semi-automatic death contraptions.

 

 

I won't argue the statistics.  But then, if the UK hadn't sent all its criminals here before they started sending them to Australia we wouldn't have near as much violence as we have.  And if they hadn't transported so many slaves here from Africa the Black/White problem here wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.

 

Hmm.. I'm not sure blaming a centuries-old government is the way to go. The situation is as it is -- and in the USA it involves far more guns.

 

 

Of course, now the people cannot revolt against an unjust government.  Taking a knife to a gun fight just doesn't work well.

 

I'd remove the government right now if I had the means. But I don't, and never will. Not sure that having a gun would make much difference in either case.

[Marblehead]

Hmm.. I'm not sure blaming a centuries-old government is the way to go. The situation is as it is -- and in the USA it involves far more guns.

Well, consider that I wasn't being all that serious either.  No, I won't blame America's problems on the UK.  They already have enough of their own.

 

I'd remove the government right now if I had the means. But I don't, and never will. Not sure that having a gun would make much difference in either case.

If you could remove your current government it probably wouldn't make that much difference.  Some other controlling person (s) would take their place.  That's the thing with leaders.  They need to have people they can control else they are not leaders - just wannabees.

 

But this concept of gun control is rather important to me in that I am a firm believer that if the vast majority disapproves of their government then they have the right to revolt.  To revolt with pitchforks today just wouldn't work.

 

And I would be willing to bet that you have never seen or heard of a successful revolt in any country that has gun control laws.

[Karl]

 Well thanks  No, it's not clear cut, but the statistics are undeniable. I'm not suggesting a direct causal relationship between guns and violence, but rather that [a] it is obvious that we are not subject to as much gun violence as people in the US, and it is also apparent that we are less subject to other forms of violence, and this could well be partly due to less of a weapon-loving culture.   Yes..and they can't hurt people..   I have never relied on the police, and I intend not to. If people come around here being violent I will be violent right back. But people are far less likely to, and if they do are far less likely to cause so much harm because they don't have instant access to semi-automatic death contraptions.   Hmm.. I'm not sure blaming a centuries-old government is the way to go. The situation is as it is -- and in the USA it involves far more guns.   I'd remove the government right now if I had the means. But I don't, and never will. Not sure that having a gun would make much difference in either case.

 

Ok you asked for it :-)

 

This is a great piece of work that dispels the recent myth that the UK is 5 times more violent than the USA. Yes, I really am posting a link proving that it is entirely bogus:

 

 

https://dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com/

 

 

the key thing here is that the USA is just more violent-guns or no guns and despite what the press would like to portray, U.S. Gun ownership is declining and the official figures are skewed even more because one person often owns several weapons. Rather than so many guns per head of population, the real figures are out by about 50% as a single owner/family owns far more weapons than the general population which evidently owns zero. Hunters in more remote areas where crime is very low can own a lot of weapons.

 

The U.S. Is just a more violent place, if you aren't getting shot then you would probably be knifed instead. It's not the guns but the people.

[Marblehead]

 It's not the guns but the people.

I normally resort to such a statement at some point in any discussion I get into regarding gun control in the US.  Guns don't shot people; people shot people.  Yes, some use a knife instead if they don't have a gun.

[dawei]

The U.S. Is just a more violent place, if you aren't getting shot then you would probably be knifed instead. It's not the guns but the people.

 

I tend to agree but it is hard to separate the influences on mankind and weapons are one.

 

One can look at China where they don't have gun ownership and say they are generally less severe killings... but then one looks at the result of Australia's gun ban a few years now and saw that crime went up.

 

I don't like statistics at times because, as is well known, there are many reasons for crime... and against conventional wisdom, dead men [historical crime] can tell tales.