Riding the Phoenix to Penglai

[Xuanming]

Quantumdragon Posted Today, 09:12 PM

Experiences cannot really be described because every human being is unique. How can energy interactions be the identical in different individuals.

 

Human body is an amazing vehicle for experiencing not only the physical reality but also emotional, energetic, mental and spiritual realities.  Four thousand years ago, ancient internal authentic Qi cultivators discovered internal energy pathways or acupuncture meridians and the relationships between emotions and internal organs as described in traditional Chinese medicine (TCM).  These discoveries all were based on internal experiences and realizations.  Thus, experiences can be described.  Energy interactions also can be described as examples of hexagrams in the Yi Jing (I Ching) system.  Your conversation with Taoist Texts is a great start and interesting.  I look forward to reading your conversations.  

[quantumdragon]

i do this;)

 

That looks so beautiful relaxing and lovely. Is the man in the video your teacher? Do you have classes you attend or are you a solo practitioner? Do you teach this form? I am very interested in  the poetry of your words describing your  practice.  

[quantumdragon]

Human body is an amazing vehicle for experiencing not only the physical reality but also emotional, energetic, mental and spiritual realities.  Four thousand years ago, ancient internal authentic Qi cultivators discovered internal energy pathways or acupuncture meridians and the relationships between emotions and internal organs as described in traditional Chinese medicine (TCM).  These discoveries all were based on internal experiences and realizations.  Thus, experiences can be described.  Energy interactions also can be described as examples of hexagrams in the Yi Jing (I Ching) system.  Your conversation with Taoist Texts is a great start and interesting.  I look forward to reading your conversations.  

Thank you for you instruction. Do you recommend studying  TCM in depth?  Are there study materials for the layperson not wanting to become  a TCM doctor? You are  obviously  a great adept. Are there books you would recommend with illustrations? I am a right  brained artist type. I cannot seem to understand things unless I first see a picture. Then I can  begin to label with words. I am studying the Yijing. After three years it is beginning to make sense. I am so happy you are on this forum. What you have written is very helpful to me. It seems  the Universal energies are  asking me to step up and use my linear mind more. That is why I am here on this forum seeking the experiences, words and wisdom of others to help me upgrade my vocabulary.  the problem I am running into in describing my practice experience is

the circulations I am experiencing do not follow exact meridian line as described in the TCM texts I have  studied. For example. Lately in my practices I will start my practice with any number of  different exercises. As I  become more and more relaxed a primary circulations takes over. From the top of my head to  the tips of my toes the energy coming in is hot, heavy ( very , very heavy)and descending and contracting. My whole body contracts from the  outside moving inward in what feels like  a multidimensional spiraling  motion. The belt meridian then  contracts to the  point that  my navel touches my life gate curling my body  somewhat forward, simultaneously  my chin connects to  my big toes and beings moving  backward and forward sort of kneading the  qi like  bread rocking like a baby in a cradle  the energy between the  lower dantien, the jade pillow area , the front of the  forehead and the  sacrum. My arms may  move with the  hand, wrist and elbow positions changing to direct the qi. Then  the pelvic floor opens and I bend my knees up and down kneading and the energy decedents out  fro  the pelvic floor to the earth. I  may stand with this  flow of energy for  up to an hour or until it naturally shift. When it returns from the earth it goes straight up the center of my body in front of the  spine out the to of my head this energy feels light and cooler but still warm. While this circulation is occurring the energy in the sacrum becomes very hot and starts pumping qi up the du meridian and down the ren the lower dantien then begins to spin like a gyroscope condensing. The  pumping action of the sacrum then spreads through my entire body and acupuncture points  all over my body begin to  heat or cool synchronizing with the  pumping feeling at the sacrum and lower dantein. This can go on for a very long time. The colors on my mind screen vary sometimes a Mandela of crimson with swirling gold sometimes a beautiful Caribbean  sea blue with gold swirling, other times a static solid white yields to  a dark black with  white chevrons speckled through.   The qi is so strong and palatable I often wonder if my legs are strong enough to hold the weight. Sometimes the strength of it feels like my body might  break. But then it all changes and become elastic , the sacrum is more static and the qi is less centralized, it seems to  come and go rippling through my muscles and tendons , soaking into the bones. This is not  a practice I govern with my conscious mind. It is more of a surrendering to some wisdom greater than my linear intellectual mind. Maybe  my intellectual mind cannot make the leap from this  attempt to describe to standardized TCM description because I have not read the right books. Any directions or pointer from anyone reading would be greatly appreciated by me. 

Edited August 19, 2015 by quantumdragon

[Xuanming]

 

 

 

quantumdragon  on 02 Aug 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

Do you recommend studying TCM in depth?  Are there study materials for the layperson not wanting to become a TCM doctor?

 

 

Acupuncture meridians were second part of The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Internal Medicine, called “Ling Shu” and is translated as “The Spiritual Pivot.” It would be helpful for your internal cultivation and qigong practice if you understand the internal energy pathways and key acupuncture points.  (You may find Acupuncture Handbook - 'Point Locations' Kindle Edition $4.90 helpful for you). 

 

On the other hand, the acupuncture meridians described in The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Internal Medicine were ancient, about 4, 000 years old.  Today these meridians have not verified and updated yet.  For example, there are no meridians of reproductive system, no meridians of lymphatic system, no meridians of endocrine system, no meridians of nerve system, no meridians of pancreas, in Ling Shu or traditional Chinese medicine (TCM).  How TCM treat health conditions effectively without deep understanding of above meridians? 

 

Your internal authentic Qi experiences are impressive.  It would be helpful and beneficial if you would discuss about your experience with your mentor for deepening your internal cultivation.  With your authentic Qi cultivation, I hope that you will be able to verify the internal energy pathways and discover new relationships between internal energy pathways and pancreas, or endocrine system, or reproductive system, or nerve system or lymphatic system, etc. 

[Taoist Texts]

That looks so beautiful relaxing and lovely. Is the man in the video your teacher? Do you have classes you attend or are you a solo practitioner? Do you teach this form? I am very interested in  the poetry of your words describing your  practice.  

its gonna be blunt poetry this time;))

 

That looks so beautiful relaxing and lovely. Is the man in the video your teacher?

 

no i dont know him, its just a video from which it can be learned a thing or two. You see i dont believe in live teachers. This gentlemen posessess a secret to his art that took him his whole life to obtain. Why would he teach it to me? There is no possible reason to do so.

 

Do you have classes you attend or are you a solo practitioner?

Long time ago i attended some classes just to make suer i am not missing on anything a teacher can give me. It turned out i did not.

 

Do you teach this form?

Not really. The secret to it is so counterintuitive and the form is so useless in the short-term that there is no demand, which is just as well.

I am very interested in  the poetry of your words describing your  practice.

sorry;)

[Taoist Texts]

 Maybe  my intellectual mind cannot make the leap from this  attempt to describe to standardized TCM description because I have not read the right books. Any directions or pointer from anyone reading would be greatly appreciated by me. 

I would venture to say its not just  reading the right books, it is also accepting what they say.

 

As to your very impressive (as Xuanming very correctly noticed) spontaneous movements, a locus classicus  is here :

 

http://wenshuchan-online.weebly.com/uploads/9/4/8/2/9482304/the-secrets-of-chinese-meditation-self-cultivation-by-mind-cont-1.pdf

 

pages 205-208 of pdf (195-198 numbered).

Edited August 3, 2015 by Taoist Texts

[quantumdragon]

I would venture to say its not just  reading the right books, it is also accepting what they say.

 

As to your very impressive (as Xuanming very correctly noticed) spontaneous movements, a locus classicus  is here :

 

http://wenshuchan-online.weebly.com/uploads/9/4/8/2/9482304/the-secrets-of-chinese-meditation-self-cultivation-by-mind-cont-1.pdf

 

pages 205-208 of pdf (195-198 numbered).

What a fascinating book. Although the forms are different in my training the results seem to be the same. This could be the dairy of the results of my practices.  I am humbled deeply. Thank you Hobo. I  cannot express my gratitude sufficiently. Like you there are things I cannot say about  how and what I am taught and who teaches me. I understand your reluctance to do anything but use the texts. 

[opendao]

Even although I was having arguments with Taoist Texts (the sophist) in the past, I have to admit that it is sad seeing him so defeated and writing this kind of bukowskian poem, fortunately English is not my mother tongue, so  the disgusting effect was weak.

 

Well, a year ago I've asked Taoist Texts to tell us his sad story, why he hates Daoists so much and Neidan in particular. After a year he got a courage to tell. The usual Taobum's  story: right intention in the beginning, bad fate - learning from a charlatan, getting nothing and became frustrated , nihilistic and sarcastic. Now the only option for such people is to praise Taoist Yoga and learn from video and books...

 

But in the world there are teachers, who really know Neidan, and they glad to share their knowledge even with foreigners. Why? Because they have De and they see clearly what has to be done to help people. Only blind people can say that Neidan masters focus only on their own practice. In reality it's impossible to achieve even the first level without De. So teachers have their strong reasons to teach right students.

 

For those who don't care about the crowd's opinions, who are able to find a good teacher, practice, get De, for them all things like "taming red dragons" and "mao-you" become clear when it's time to practically know such things. The Dao is straight and simple, but books are just hints where to look for a teacher and how to understand the teacher's teaching. Learning Dao without teacher leads to nowhere. Leading others to nowhere stops your practice (because of De damage). Your victims won't be able to learn the Dao after your "advises" and "experiences". It's not just spooky words: we see such stories very often.

[opendao]

What a fascinating book. Although the forms are different in my training the results seem to be the same. This could be the dairy of the results of my practices.  I am humbled deeply. Thank you Hobo. I  cannot express my gratitude sufficiently. Like you there are things I cannot say about  how and what I am taught and who teaches me. I understand your reluctance to do anything but use the texts. 

 

Just as a side note: Taoist Yoga is an incomplete translation of writings made by a person who got no alchemical results. But if you don't care about "who teaches you" then for sure it's not very important 

[Taoist Texts]

Even although I was having arguments with Taoist Texts (the sophist) in the past, I have to admit that it is sad seeing him so defeated and writing this kind of bukowskian poem, fortunately English is not my mother tongue, so  the disgusting effect was weak.

 

Well, a year ago I've asked Taoist Texts to tell us his sad story, why he hates Daoists so much and Neidan in particular. After a year he got a courage to tell. The usual Taobum's  story: right intention in the beginning, bad fate - learning from a charlatan, getting nothing and became frustrated , nihilistic and sarcastic.

 

I am probably living in some alternative universe from these two guys, the taobum.com being the astral portal that joins the two worlds.

[opendao]

I am probably living in some alternative universe from these two guys, the taobum.com being the astral portal that joins the two worlds.

 

it's just a quantum reflection of your internal world

[quantumdragon]

I would venture to say its not just  reading the right books, it is also accepting what they say.

 

As to your very impressive (as Xuanming very correctly noticed) spontaneous movements, a locus classicus  is here :

 

http://wenshuchan-online.weebly.com/uploads/9/4/8/2/9482304/the-secrets-of-chinese-meditation-self-cultivation-by-mind-cont-1.pdf

 

pages 205-208 of pdf (195-198 numbered).

HI Hobo,

I am posting here to avoid, hopefully, that guy that just disrespected your experiences in seeking a teacher. In my opinion, no authentic teacher would act in such a way. Xuanming, even though he was quite adamant in the incorrectness of your assessment of MS. Gonet's book, offered something authentic from his own experience. That other guy, hit and run criticism- oh and then so subtly an advertisement link with the disclaimer "they even teach white folk" so to speak. Wow! Doesn't that make you want to  pay for more abuse : ) Take a class we'll kick your a$$ : ) I must say, this has to be some kind of male  Chinese cultural thing that goes along with martial arts schools. I used to watch  kung fu movies when I was a kid. You know the one where one guy at a certain martial arts school is disrespected so a big war breaks out and everyone is fighting over whose school has the best  gong.  Until I started reading this forum I thought that as make believe stuff. No wonder you feel like all teachers are false. I can sincerely tell you there are authentic teachers. I have one. And you can find one too. Maybe not on Tao bums but  good ones are out there. And I would venture to say the would NEVER treat a beginning student with  appalling lack of manners as displayed by the poster rubbing salt in your wounds. 

[Xuanming]

quantumdragon 01 August 2015 - 10:12 PM Said:

The  "event" that prompted my devotion was the first practice of 4 hours. I had never experienced anything like

the pure freedom and ecstasy  of what is  commonly written about as the Xuan state.

 

Have you read Master Lü Dongbin‘s The Secret of Freedom? 

 

The Secret of Freedom  (Translation by Thomas Cleary)

 

Jadelike purity has left a secret of freedom

In the lower world:

Congeal the spirit in the lair of energy,

And you'll suddenly see

White snow flying in midsummer,

The sun blazing in the water at midnight.

Going along harmoniously,

You roam in the heavens,

Then return to absorb

The virtues of the receptive.  

???

???

 

Master Lü Dongbin‘s original poem is the following:

 

逍遥诀

 

玉清留下逍遥诀，

四字凝神入气穴；

六月俄看白雪飞，

三更又见日轮赫；

水中吹起籍巽风，

天上游歸食坤德；

更有一句玄中玄，

无何有乡是真宅。

 

Hi Taoist Texts,

What do you think about the translation of this poem by Thomas Cleary?  I respect Thomas Cleary and appreciate his work. 

But I am surprised this translation was not completed- the last two lines were not translated.  It seems that he does not understand the meaning of the two lines.  Actually the last two lines in this poem are very important.  Is it possible for you to translate this poem with your own version or at least to translate the last two lines and explain the meanings of the last two lines? 

 

Quantumdragon has experienced the pure freedom and ecstasy during the internal cultivation practice, and wants to offer assistance to you. I am thinking perhaps you and Quantumdragon would work together for a perfect and complete translation of Master Lü Dongbin‘s poem of Xiao Yao Jue. 

Edited August 3, 2015 by Xuanming

[quantumdragon]

Have you read Master Lü Dongbin‘s The Secret of Freedom? 

 

The Secret of Freedom  (Translation by Thomas Cleary)

 

Jadelike purity has left a secret of freedom

In the lower world:

Congeal the spirit in the lair of energy,

And you'll suddenly see

White snow flying in midsummer,

The sun blazing in the water at midnight.

Going along harmoniously,

You roam in the heavens,

Then return to absorb

The virtues of the receptive.  

???

???

 

Master Lü Dongbin‘s original poem is the following:

 

逍遥诀

 

玉清留下逍遥诀，

四字凝神入气穴；

六月俄看白雪飞，

三更又见日轮赫；

水中吹起籍巽风，

天上游歸食坤德；

更有一句玄中玄，

无何有乡是真宅。

 

Hi Taoist Texts,

What do you think about the translation of this poem by Thomas Cleary?  I respect Thomas Cleary and appreciate his work. 

But I am surprised this translation was not completed- the last two lines were not translated.  It seems that he does not understand the meaning of the two lines.  Actually the last two lines in this poem are very important.  Is it possible for you to translate this poem with your own version or at least to translate the last two lines and explain the meanings of the last two lines? 

 

Quantumdragon has experienced the pure freedom and ecstasy during the internal cultivation practice, and wants to offer assistance to you. I am thinking perhaps you and Quantumdragon would work together for a perfect and complete translation of Master Lü Dongbin‘s poem of Xiao Yao Jue. 

Hi Xuanming and Taoist Texts ,

I think that would be totally fun. From my  energy interactions with Hobo I have discovered he does a fantastic job embodying  the qualities of water as well as he does the intellectual fire. Just watch the way he  handles  all those attacks on his person, his character , his translations etc. When they thrust he flows. Brilliant. I have a poem I was given 2 years ago  near midnight in the year that might help illuminate this .  r u game hobo? I do not feel Xuanming is  picking a fight. I believe  he is sincere in his desire to see us collaborate.Community collaboration what a perfect reflection of the Way.   

Here is what I have to rely on as a non Chinese speaker. I wish google could do a better job. After all they make a fortune selling our private information why not give us  some decent product in return! Say what! It is gibberish or near it.

Google translate: 

Happy tactic

 

Yuqing left Happy tactics,

Quadword breath into the air pocket;

June Russia see Bai Xuefei,

See also the day three shifts round Hz;

Membership Sunda wind blowing water,

Upstream food Kwan Tak-day return;

More mysterious in a mysterious,

It has no true home village.

[opendao]

HI Hobo,

I am posting here to avoid, hopefully, that guy that just disrespected your experiences in seeking a teacher. In my opinion, no authentic teacher would act in such a way. Xuanming, even though he was quite adamant in the incorrectness of your assessment of MS. Gonet's book, offered something authentic from his own experience. That other guy, hit and run criticism- oh and then so subtly an advertisement link with the disclaimer "they even teach white folk" so to speak. Wow! Doesn't that make you want to  pay for more abuse : ) Take a class we'll kick your a$$ : ) I must say, this has to be some kind of male  Chinese cultural thing that goes along with martial arts schools. I used to watch  kung fu movies when I was a kid. You know the one where one guy at a certain martial arts school is disrespected so a big war breaks out and everyone is fighting over whose school has the best  gong.  Until I started reading this forum I thought that as make believe stuff. No wonder you feel like all teachers are false. I can sincerely tell you there are authentic teachers. I have one. And you can find one too. Maybe not on Tao bums but  good ones are out there. And I would venture to say the would NEVER treat a beginning student with  appalling lack of manners as displayed by the poster rubbing salt in your wounds. 

 

other guy can just recommend you to read more carefully. All disrespect Taoist Texts has shown here for the last year to the Daoist teaching and teachers is returning to him. He knows it. You don't. Everything else are just kids emotions. It's sweet you have them but the real price for such beloved blindness is too high.... But sorry to distract you from your fantasy world of interaction with Hobo   Thanks god I'm not hobo...

[Walker]

Yikes. Here's something for your Google Translate software: 走弯路.

[Taoist Texts]

  r u game hobo?

 

Hello;) Sure! This morning i have a train to catch, so will get back to you guys the day after. Have fun meanwhiles

 

[Taoist Texts]

HI Hobo,

 so subtly an advertisement link with the disclaimer "they even teach white folk" so to speak. Wow!

sure;) ...come one come all. every color that is with a shade of green.

[quantumdragon]

sure;) ...come one come all. every color that is with a shade of green.

Ye$. Well I will wait for your return. There is nothing I can  do without expert translation first.

[opendao]

sure;) ...come one come all. every color that is with a shade of green.

 

who did you pay, Great Master Hobo?

You're so knowledgeable about frauds, trolls, clones, robbers, "spiritual business" and other money-related things that I cannot avoid strange conclusions... 

[Xuanming]

 

Walker  03 August  07:42 PM Said

 

Yikes. Here's something for your Google Translate software: 走弯路.

道在苦修妙在傳

須拜明師點玄關

 

 

明師苦心领进门

弟子修行在个人

道在苦修与妙悟

莫入迷津走弯路

Edited August 4, 2015 by Xuanming

[Taoist Texts]

 I have a poem I was given 2 years ago  near midnight in the year that might help illuminate this . 

Hi. Would be great if you share!

[Taoist Texts]

 

 

The Secret of Freedom  (Translation by Thomas Cleary)

 

Jadelike purity has left a secret of freedom

In the lower world:

Congeal the spirit in the lair of energy,

And you'll suddenly see

White snow flying in midsummer,

The sun blazing in the water at midnight.

Going along harmoniously,

You roam in the heavens,

Then return to absorb

The virtues of the receptive.  

???

???

 

Master Lü Dongbin‘s original poem is the following:

 

逍遥诀

 

玉清留下逍遥诀，

四字凝神入气穴；

六月俄看白雪飞，

三更又见日轮赫；

水中吹起籍巽风，

天上游歸食坤德；

更有一句玄中玄，

无何有乡是真宅。

 

Hi Taoist Texts,

What do you think about the translation of this poem by Thomas Cleary? 

 

Hey. Its not that bad but not great either. It probably manages to transmit the general feel of the original for the general reader, but it is inadequate for a practitioner's needs.

 

I respect Thomas Cleary and appreciate his work. 

 

Actually me too. That said - he is not an expert on the specific subject matter.

But I am surprised this translation was not completed- the last two lines were not translated.  It seems that he does not understand the meaning of the two lines.  Actually the last two lines in this poem are very important.  Is it possible for you to translate this poem with your own version or at least to translate the last two lines and explain the meanings of the last two lines? 

Translating would be my pleasuer.

 

(for best results should  rapped to the Fresh Prince of Bel-air theme song)

 

This is a secret to travelling free

Sent down from high by the Jade Purity.

 

Qi. Lair. Spirit. and Congeal.

Four characters only, this to see and feel:

 

In the hot summer a snowfall thick and white,-

Red sun at midnight shiny, red and bright.

 

A gentle breeze will blow, from within the sea,-

Coming down from Heavens,  an edible bounty.

 

One important phrase which must be asserted

‘There is a darkness in mystery inserted’.

 

Who will be able that darkness find,

Will everywhere in The True reside.

[opendao]

Hey. Its not that bad but not great either. It probably manages to transmit the general feel of the original for the general reader, but it is inadequate for a practitioner's needs.

 

 

Actually me too. That said - he is not an expert on the specific subject matter.

Translating would be my pleasuer.

 

(for best results should  rapped to the Fresh Prince of Bel-air theme song)

 

"In west Philadelphia born and raised

On the playground was where I spent most of my days"

 

It's all clear, no ques bro, it really has something in common with your translation, but it seems Master Lu meant other things to say...

 

Qi. Lair. Spirit. and Congeal.

Four characters only, this to see and feel:

 

四(four)字(character)凝(4 "congeal")神(3 spirit)入气(1 qi)穴("lair" 2)；

 

Do you really think that 入 is not a character? Or maybe you think the author couldn't properly count? How come you translate 5 characters as 4 words, skipping one of them (important one by the way)? 

 

Any why you cannot  translate 气穴 anyhow else? "Lair" is very poetic, but has no practical sense, that you insist you know.

 

Simple question: what enters what (and when)? 

[quantumdragon]

 

Hey. Its not that bad but not great either. It probably manages to transmit the general feel of the original for the general reader, but it is inadequate for a practitioner's needs.

 

 

Actually me too. That said - he is not an expert on the specific subject matter.

Translating would be my pleasuer.

 

(for best results should  rapped to the Fresh Prince of Bel-air theme song)

 

 

Qi. Lair. Spirit. and Congeal.

Four characters only, this to see and feel:

 

Then return to absorb

The virtues of the receptive.

 

This is very interesting Hobo. 

You and Cleary arrive at 4 and 4 doubled in your translation. Four as , you know is earth, the Square , yellow etc. In TCM this is the  Stomach / Spleen. In our  practices it is the Stomach  / Pancreas.

  Earth over Earth in the Yijing is hexagram number 2 often called the Receptive, Natural Response,It is the energy of the Mare which the texts say compliments the pure Heaven energy of the Dragon, in my view it is the  naturalness of the receptivity of the Womb. I  assure you now the woman's( or any other female being)  womb makes no mistakes in what is able to to compliment its  function of creating life. 

Lair is a very interesting way to say safe resting place for an earth immortal as pure animals are known.

Lair noun

 

1. a wild animal's resting place, especially one that is well hidden. 

   a secret or private place in which a person seeks  seclusion.In the practice I

   learned there is a secret gate near with the Earth elements meeting place of TCM theory. This is an  important resting place for the  Mind. In Ms. Gonet's  book the First Poem is Recalling the MInd. to this " gate" or lair/ cave.

   I have much more to say but I must go now. What was your reason for choosing Lair? Personally I feel you  have a great intuitive capacity as well as an intellectual mind. I experience you as  containing receptivity.  

   LTR after my work is done.