Riding the Phoenix to Penglai

[Taoist Texts]

What was your reason for choosing Lair?

 

Mainly the dictionary. Xue 穴

 

(1)  A cave, cavern, grotto: 洞穴 a cave;

孔穴，穴隙 a hole (in wall, ground);

穴居，穴處 live in caves.

(2)  A den: 巢穴 robbers' den;

鼠穴 a rat hole.

(3)  A grave: 墓穴.

(4)  Certain parts of human body containing vital arteries, such as armpit: 穴道，點穴 vital points recognized in karate and acupuncture.

 

 

Is specifically an inhabitable hole. There is somebody inside and as you can see, that somebody hides there (thieves, rats etc) hence the lair.

[Taoist Texts]

 

 

Hey. Its not that bad but not great either. It probably manages to transmit the general feel of the original for the general reader, but it is inadequate for a practitioner's needs.

 

 

Actually me too. That said - he is not an expert on the specific subject matter.

Translating would be my pleasuer.

 

(for best results should  rapped to the Fresh Prince of Bel-air theme song)

 

 

Qi. Lair. Spirit. and Congeal.

Four characters only, this to see and feel:

 

Then return to absorb

The virtues of the receptive.

You and Cleary arrive at 4 and 4 doubled in your translation. Four as , you know is earth, the Square , yellow etc. In TCM this is the  Stomach / Spleen. In our  practices it is the Stomach  / Pancreas.

  Earth over Earth in the Yijing is hexagram number 2 often called the Receptive, Natural Response,

 

The author makes two hexagram allusions

 

first the wind is characterized as 巽

 

57. Sun / The Gentle (The Penetrating, Wind)

 

 

then the bounty is attributed to 坤 64

 

 

 

A gentle (SUN) breeze will blow, from within the sea,

Coming down from Heavens,  an edible (KUN) bounty.

[quantumdragon]

The author makes two hexagram allusions

 

first the wind is characterized as 巽

 

57. Sun / The Gentle (The Penetrating, Wind)

 

 

then the bounty is attributed to 坤 64

 

 

 

A gentle (SUN) breeze will blow, from within the sea,

Coming down from Heavens,  an edible (KUN) bounty.

I would be honor if you would detail sentence symbol for each of the  two hexagrams you mention above. I use  plum flower method of  divination for Yijing relying on  spontaneous earth events to give the hexagram. I  have yet to master , well  actually even come close to , extrapolating a hexagram from a sentence or  a stanza in a poem. My  background is in Western  Alchemy , Cultural Anthropology and cross cultural synthesis of symbols.  I am  totally new to Chinese Cultural exposure. I have only my practices and intuition to guide me sometimes. Your assistance in learning how to  read the hexagrams from this poem would  be welcome water  to a thirsty woman. 

[quantumdragon]

HI Hobo,

Now I can talk. I apologize for my hurried response earlier. I have been very busy today.

All the blah  blah about secret  gates and hidden cauldrons is interesting enough. What is better than a good mystery eh? This is why I appreciate your use of the the word Lair and your association of it with  a safe hiding place for  thieves, bandits etc. but then again the Lair is could be a womb, a tomb, a cauldron. The former, a hiding place for thieves prompts a  necessary  recollection why there is a secret at all. 

Tao Teh Ching 5

 

 

The Tao is called the Great Mother:
empty yet inexhaustible,
it gives birth to infinite worlds.

It is always present within you.
You can use it any way you want.

 

The Jade Purity, The Creatrix, The Unborn Mysterious Mother of All, progenitress of the Original Freedom is sending a secret carried by the wind to her born children.

[Hobo, just for fun, here I will pause to give a name that was whispered to me by a rain drop. Queen of the Immortals, the Royal Mother of the West, whose name was Hsi Wang Mu] For a moment I will digress and tell you what was told to me in a vision. I was in a foundational training class for   upgrading, transforming and purifying  the thieves lairs specifically the 10 earthly branches or the paired 5 element meridian systems and related organs. On a break from the practices of the class I went outside. When  suddenly I hear a voice that was not spoken direct me to go be  alone and  prepare to observe. It was raining that day. So I found cover under a pine tree and waited. The voice returned.  She said without speaking ,by generating a "movie like vision" superimposed over external reality ; " You are  a rain drop watch it fall into the  puddle , see the ripple. Does this ripple end? Then I was  shown in a sort of time lapse the water cycle of the  whole earth, from oceans to clouds and rain,  to mountains as snow melting into lakes which became rivers and returned to the sea again. Then in an isolated frame I was shown a single rain drop fall into the ocean. The the voice spoke again saying; " I am the Ocean, I am the Water, I am the Blood. I carry the Seed, I was here before the Earth and Humanity." Then I was shown  another  time lapse this was of the Universe. I saw the form of a translucent  woman stretched across deep space- nebula were her eyes, stellar wind streams were her hair. She was dancing , at first languishing in the rhythm of  the cosmic pulse then suddenly I heard, " I am purity, I am beauty, I was never born follow me and live in freedom violate me and  your life will turn into a dust storm." Wow Really, I thought I had better pay attention in class! That night I went home and started practicing around 10 PM to 3 AM I did all of the Yin/Yang cleansing exercises for each of the paired organs. Several things happened during this practice. I noticed my legs felt thick and heavy, but I kept going. The I noticed My back  felt like something was growing out of it hard and  rounded, then  at the hundred meeting points I felt something like a golden egg crack open liquid metal  was dripping inside my head and down my face in tiny streams of gold like rivers pouring down in rivulets over my body. I looked with my inner eyes to see what was going on with my  back and I saw a shell with chevrons ( I was too new to know about hexagrams and trigrams) so I raised my perspective  where I could see my whole self from above. I be darned , I thought to myself. I am a turtle. O.K. Now I can sleep. In my western Alchemical training I was taught to embrace the vision or image and sculpt it so that I might live  with it in solid form. What amazing upgrade Chinese Internal Alchemy is. In this art form we give  blood to  the Mysterious , we  embody the Mystery by purifying and bathing in practice. What the wind whispered to me that day was  the Jade Purity is already inside me, a hidden treasure waiting to be known or remembered. How elegant and delightful this feels. It is freedom to realize what I had been striving for  so long is alive in my blood, bones and body , unborn in eternity and within in the ever  present now. I call Her the Now and Forever Love. 

[quantumdragon]

 

The author makes two hexagram allusions

 

first the wind is characterized as 巽

 

57. Sun / The Gentle (The Penetrating, Wind)

 

 

then the bounty is attributed to 坤 64

 

 

 

A gentle (SUN) breeze will blow, from within the sea,

Coming down from Heavens,  an edible (KUN) bounty.

 

Here is how the  Great  Unborn  Mother, The Jade purity speaks to me in everyday life through the  Yijing Plum Flower Method.  I was thinking about the poem you were going to translate. I was feeling nervous because I do not have words like you so  brilliant and intelligent.  I was hearing in my mind the Receptive over and over. So I had gone away from Virtue/ Authenticity and  let myself be swept away by one of the Big Bandito's of the Stomach / Pancreas..Worry. I do not know how to interpret Yijing yet so I emailed my  teacher and  she  send me this interpretation of my synchronistic experience.  I was wondering if I would be able to contribute anything of value on the doa bums forum  while getting my down comforters ready for fall pulling them out of the dryer when a wind came up from the window due west it blew form a hexagram wind over lake # 61http://www.akirarabelais.com/i/i.html#61  

feathers that looked like snow falling leaving a trail  to the north the door of my home. Funny it looks like a trail of snow from the washing area in the west to my front door that sounds a great blessing, feathers wind went your  to  your north door, form a hexagram wind over water, #59 http://www.akirarabelais.com/i/i.html#59  

This

morning I read  a  doa bums  brilliant forum members Translation of a  the Poem. Master Lü Dongbin‘s The Secret of Freedom? translated by  T. Cleary posted  by another  forum member , simultaneously at around 6 AM a huge Gaggle of  Geese in formation  flew directly over the center of my home heading south.  Again, you received a hexagram wind over water, #59 http://www.akirarabelais.com/i/i.html#59 with 3rd line change.   Please read the Judgement of two hexagrams and change line of the #59.  the universal messages look very good.  

I share this with you  Hobo because it is about you  to.  Hexagram  64 reminded me of this :

Tao Teh Ching 26

Every being in the universe

is an expression of the Tao.

It springs into existence,

pure, perfect, free,

takes on a physical body,

lets circumstances complete it.

That is why every being

spontaneously honors the Tao.

 

The Tao gives birth to all beings,

nourishes them, maintains them,

cares for them, comforts them, protects them,

takes them back to itself,

creating without possessing,

acting without expecting,

guiding without interfering.

That is why love of the Tao

is in the very nature of things.

 

[Taoist Texts]

  . Your assistance in learning how to  read the hexagrams from this poem would  be welcome water  to a thirsty woman. 

 

Well luckily the symbolism of the hexgs in the poem has been explained already by the author of the poem.

 

This poem is a part of this text

 

The Secret of the Golden Flower (Chinese: 太乙金華宗旨; pinyin: Tàiyǐ Jīnhuá Zōngzhǐ) is a Chinese Taoist classic about neidan (inner alchemy) meditation.

 

 

with a passage following the poem, that kinda-sorta tells what the poem should mean. Somebody at this link  tried to translate it adding the hexgs to the text for clarity;)

 

 

1. Master Lu-tsu said:

 

Taoist immortals have left behind a secret spell for freedom.

Through four (Chinese) characters the spirit crystallizes in the original cavity.

In the sixth month white snow is suddenly seen to fly.

At the third watch the sun’s disk is radiant.

In water blows the wind of Xun (Wind) ☴.

Traveling in Heaven, one returns to Earth

and absorbs the virtue of Kun (Earth)☷.

And the still deeper secret of the secret:

The land that is nowhere, that is the true home.

2. The poem above expresses all the mysteries. The essence of the Great Way are the words action through non-action . Only non-action prevents a man from becoming entangled in forms and images. Only action through non-action prevents a man from sinking into indifferent emptiness and dead nothingness. The work of action through non-action is just focusing around the center; the essential mechanism of action through non-action is in the two eyes. The two eyes are like the handle of the big dipper, which manages creation and operates yin and yang.    

3. From beginning to end, the great medicine depends on one thing: the metal in the midst of the water, that is, the lead in the water-region. Before, we spoke of the turning the light around, indicating thereby the initial mechanism to control the inside from outside. This is to aid one in obtaining the Master. It is for pupils in the beginning stages. They go through the two lower transitions in order to gain the upper one. Now as things gradually become clear and one becomes familiar with the mechanism, Heaven no longer withholds the Way, but reveals the ultimate truth. Disciples, cherish it, cherish it. More effort, more effort!

[Taoist Texts]

 

Do you really think that 入 is not a character? Or maybe you think the author couldn't properly count? How come you translate 5 characters as 4 words, skipping one of them (important one by the way)? 

 

Any why you cannot  translate 气穴 anyhow else? "

 

Simple question: what enters what (and when)? 

 

• Once Nasreddin was invited to deliver a sermon. When he got on the pulpit, he asked, Do you know what I am going to say? The audience replied "no", so he announced, I have no desire to speak to people who don't even know what I will be talking about! and left.
• The people felt embarrassed and called him back again the next day. This time, when he asked the same question, the people replied yes. So Nasreddin said, Well, since you already know what I am going to say, I won't waste any more of your time! and left.
• Now the people were really perplexed. They decided to try one more time and once again invited Nasreddin to speak the following week. Once again he asked the same question – Do you know what I am going to say? Now the people were prepared and so half of them answered "yes" while the other half replied "no". So Nasreddin said Let the half who know what I am going to say, tell it to the half who don't, and left.^[21]

[quantumdragon]

Well luckily the symbolism of the hexgs in the poem has been explained already by the author of the poem.

 

This poem is a part of this text

 

The Secret of the Golden Flower (Chinese: 太乙金華宗旨; pinyin: Tàiyǐ Jīnhuá Zōngzhǐ) is a Chinese Taoist classic about neidan (inner alchemy) meditation.

 

 

with a passage following the poem, that kinda-sorta tells what the poem should mean. Somebody at this link  tried to translate it adding the hexgs to the text for clarity;)

 

 

1. Master Lu-tsu said:

 

Taoist immortals have left behind a secret spell for freedom.

Through four (Chinese) characters the spirit crystallizes in the original cavity.

In the sixth month white snow is suddenly seen to fly.

At the third watch the sun’s disk is radiant.

In water blows the wind of Xun (Wind) ☴.

Traveling in Heaven, one returns to Earth

and absorbs the virtue of Kun (Earth)☷.

And the still deeper secret of the secret:

The land that is nowhere, that is the true home.

2. The poem above expresses all the mysteries. The essence of the Great Way are the words action through non-action . Only non-action prevents a man from becoming entangled in forms and images. Only action through non-action prevents a man from sinking into indifferent emptiness and dead nothingness. The work of action through non-action is just focusing around the center; the essential mechanism of action through non-action is in the two eyes. The two eyes are like the handle of the big dipper, which manages creation and operates yin and yang.    

3. From beginning to end, the great medicine depends on one thing: the metal in the midst of the water, that is, the lead in the water-region. Before, we spoke of the turning the light around, indicating thereby the initial mechanism to control the inside from outside. This is to aid one in obtaining the Master. It is for pupils in the beginning stages. They go through the two lower transitions in order to gain the upper one. Now as things gradually become clear and one becomes familiar with the mechanism, Heaven no longer withholds the Way, but reveals the ultimate truth. Disciples, cherish it, cherish it. More effort, more effort!

I really appreciate this authors efforts to decode the meaning of the Secret of the Golden  Flower. So what I am understanding is there is somewhat of a general verbiage used to describe Internal Alchemy Practices? Is that correct?

This author does not address the lesser Kan and Li circulation that is  required foundational work  prior to the Greater  Circulation of Kan and Li.  All these people are  just using the same terminology with offering any evidence of their personal experience.  What I am seeing in all this writing is a lack of understanding of what the secret is. Big clue from Xuanming Bold Highlighting the RECEPTIVE in the poem. I have a question. What is the  Heart of Heaven? Where is it located and what is its function in the activation of the  energetic Anatomy of the  Human body? What element governs the Heart of Heaven. What location the Heart of Heaven in the Post Natal  anatomy of the energetic body?  In the circulation of the light in the  Golden Flower practice, what  roll does the violet lady play ? How does the violet lady affect the prenatal or unborn original spirit in the  Golden Flower Practice? 

[Taoist Texts]

I really appreciate this authors efforts to decode the meaning of the Secret of the Golden  Flower. So what I am understanding is there is somewhat of a general verbiage used to describe Internal Alchemy Practices? Is that correct?

Yes it is correct with one IMHO difference: it is a very precise verbiage. May be an inpatient reader may feel it to be general or vague because he or she did not take time to find out the precise definition of each word.

 

 

This author does not address the lesser Kan and Li circulation that is  required foundational work  prior to the Greater  Circulation of Kan and Li.

may be in his method it is not required who knows?

 

 All these people are  just using the same terminology with offering any evidence of their personal experience.

 

well, some of them do offer that:

 

6. Signs of Verification of Turning Around the Light

 

 

 

 

 

 

 What I am seeing in all this writing is a lack of understanding of what the secret is. Big clue from Xuanming Bold Highlighting the RECEPTIVE in the poem. I have a question. What is the  Heart of Heaven? Where is it located and what is its function in the activation of the  energetic Anatomy of the  Human body? What element governs the Heart of Heaven. What location the Heart of Heaven in the Post Natal  anatomy of the energetic body?  In the circulation of the light in the  Golden Flower practice, what  roll does the violet lady play ? How does the violet lady affect the prenatal or unborn original spirit in the  Golden Flower Practice? 

 

Those are very good questions. IMHO they will not be answered publicly and outside of teacher-student framework.

[Xuanming]

Taoist Texts 05 August, 04:04 AM

 

This is a secret to travelling free

Sent down from high by the Jade Purity.

 

Qi. Lair. Spirit. and Congeal.

Four characters only, this to see and feel:

 

In the hot summer a snowfall thick and white,-

Red sun at midnight shiny, red and bright.

 

A gentle breeze will blow, from within the sea,-

Coming down from Heavens,  an edible bounty.

 

One important phrase which must be asserted

‘There is a darkness in mystery inserted’.

 

Who will be able that darkness find,

Will everywhere in The True reside.

 

Thank you for your efforts and your excellent translation and for sharing the version of translation from the Secret of Golden Flower.  They all are very helpful.

 

The title of this poem is the Secret of Freedom

 

Here, the freedom Master Lü Dongbin refers to the freedom of the spirit.

 

玉清留下逍遥诀，

 

The first line was talking about the source of the secret.  Master Lü shared that the secret method was told by the Jade Purity.

 

Regarding the second line: 四字凝神入气穴

 

Opendao 05 August 09:55 AM Said:

 

四(four)字(character)凝(4 "congeal")神(3 spirit)入气(1 qi)穴("lair" 2)；

 

Do you really think that 入 is not a character? Or maybe you think the author couldn't properly count? How come you translate 5 characters as 4 words, skipping one of them (important one by the way)? 

 

Any why you cannot  translate 气穴 anyhow else? "Lair" is very poetic, but has no practical sense, that you insist you know.

 

Simple question: what enters what (and when)? 

 

 

Oendao made a good point regarding the second line. 

 

The secret practice is to congeal the mind into the true aperture (or lair) at midnight 1-3 am (or at living baby time (活子时).  四(four)字(character) at here refers to time (1-3am or living baby time). 

 

As quantumdragon pointed out: you may find Sun Bu-Er’s first peom-Recalling the mind is very helpful to understand this second line.  Riding the Phoenix to Penglai (page 14, 28)

 

六月俄看白雪飞，

三更又见日轮赫；

水中吹起籍巽风，

 

The third, four and fifth lings are expressions of internal experience from internal cultivation. 

 

天上游歸食坤德；

Sixth line is advice for people who are living on the earth to establish virtues in accordance with the Dao.  Because the virtues are the essence and nutrients for spiritual growth and development.

 

更有一句玄中玄，

无何有乡是真宅。

 

The last two lines in this poem are expressions of the outcomes from the internal cultivation and living in accordance with the Dao:  realized the authentic self and found the true spiritual home. You may find that the Riding the Phoenix to Penglai is a brilliant expression of Sun Bu-Er, who found her true home, Penglai.

 

Taoist Texts translates 玄中玄as “a darkness in mystery” and Richard Wilhelm translates 玄中玄 as “still deeper secret of the secret.”  Both translations sound great literally.

 

But, I don’t think that these translations reflect the meaning of Master Lü Dongbin’s expression adequately.  Are there any comments, input and suggestions? 

[Daeluin]

Seems similar to "Know the white, keep to the black."

 

The secret to freedom is that once you have reclaimed the whole, the true, you don't go projecting it back out into the world, but you keep it hidden and safe. You flow along with the world, adapting to circumstances without the need to change anything. This is knowing the white, but keeping to the black.

 

The white also represents metal, the black, water. Metal is also associated with heavenly qi, and with the middle line of Kan. Once the spiritual embryo has returned to the lair of energy, we have the Metal hidden within the Water. The two outer lines of Kan can represent the black that conceals the white, and can be used as a vehicle to flow with, even as the white remains hidden within. Of course this is just a simplification.

 

Paradoxical, as this sounds like not being able to make any deliberate choices. And yet, one does not need to make choices, one simply flows to what resonates, flows away from what does not, just as Zhuangzi's butcher slows down when approaching a knot of muscle, empties himself, find the invisible gaps in the seemingly impassible, and passes through without needing to use any force.

 

Mao and you represent sunrise and sunset, or, more importantly, any times when yang begins to overcome yin, and when yin begins to overcome yang.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Daeluin

[quantumdragon]

 

Thank you for your efforts and your excellent translation and for sharing the version of translation from the Secret of Golden Flower.  They all are very helpful.

 

The title of this poem is the Secret of Freedom

 

Here, the freedom Master Lü Dongbin refers to the freedom of the spirit.

 

玉清留下逍遥诀，

 

The first line was talking about the source of the secret.  Master Lü shared that the secret method was told by the Jade Purity.

 

Regarding the second line: 四字凝神入气穴

 

 

 

Oendao made a good point regarding the second line. 

 

The secret practice is to congeal the mind into the true aperture (or lair) at midnight 1-3 am (or at living baby time (活子时).  四(four)字(character) at here refers to time (1-3am or living baby time). 

 

As quantumdragon pointed out: you may find Sun Bu-Er’s first peom-Recalling the mind is very helpful to understand this second line.  Riding the Phoenix to Penglai (page 14, 28)

 

六月俄看白雪飞，

三更又见日轮赫；

水中吹起籍巽风，

 

The third, four and fifth lings are expressions of internal experience from internal cultivation. 

 

天上游歸食坤德；

Sixth line is advice for people who are living on the earth to establish virtues in accordance with the Dao.  Because the virtues are the essence and nutrients for spiritual growth and development.

 

更有一句玄中玄，

无何有乡是真宅。

 

The last two lines in this poem are expressions of the outcomes from the internal cultivation and living in accordance with the Dao:  realized the authentic self and found the true spiritual home. You may find that the Riding the Phoenix to Penglai is a brilliant expression of Sun Bu-Er, who found her true home, Penglai.

 

Taoist Texts translates 玄中玄as “a darkness in mystery” and Richard Wilhelm translates 玄中玄 as “still deeper secret of the secret.”  Both translations sound great literally.

 

But, I don’t think that these translations reflect the meaning of Master Lü Dongbin’s expression adequately.  Are there any comments, input and suggestions? 

Thank you Xuanming your stabilizing energy is so welcome here. You have given us some clues. 1. The Receptive

 

 

Thank you for your efforts and your excellent translation and for sharing the version of translation from the Secret of Golden Flower.  They all are very helpful.

 

The title of this poem is the Secret of Freedom

 

Here, the freedom Master Lü Dongbin refers to the freedom of the spirit.

 

玉清留下逍遥诀，

 

The first line was talking about the source of the secret.  Master Lü shared that the secret method was told by the Jade Purity.

 

Regarding the second line: 四字凝神入气穴

 

 

 

Oendao made a good point regarding the second line. 

 

The secret practice is to congeal the mind into the true aperture (or lair) at midnight 1-3 am (or at living baby time (活子时).  四(four)字(character) at here refers to time (1-3am or living baby time). 

 

As quantumdragon pointed out: you may find Sun Bu-Er’s first peom-Recalling the mind is very helpful to understand this second line.  Riding the Phoenix to Penglai (page 14, 28)

 

六月俄看白雪飞，

三更又见日轮赫；

水中吹起籍巽风，

 

The third, four and fifth lings are expressions of internal experience from internal cultivation. 

 

天上游歸食坤德；

Sixth line is advice for people who are living on the earth to establish virtues in accordance with the Dao.  Because the virtues are the essence and nutrients for spiritual growth and development.

 

更有一句玄中玄，

无何有乡是真宅。

 

The last two lines in this poem are expressions of the outcomes from the internal cultivation and living in accordance with the Dao:  realized the authentic self and found the true spiritual home. You may find that the Riding the Phoenix to Penglai is a brilliant expression of Sun Bu-Er, who found her true home, Penglai.

 

Taoist Texts translates 玄中玄as “a darkness in mystery” and Richard Wilhelm translates 玄中玄 as “still deeper secret of the secret.”  Both translations sound great literally.

 

But, I don’t think that these translations reflect the meaning of Master Lü Dongbin’s expression adequately.  Are there any comments, input and suggestions? 

I feel from my practices the secret is the circulation of the light is threaded through Pengali. It has to be for the  prenatal spirit to have a home. There is a secret Lair between the Pancreas and Stomach that contains the wisdom of the ancestors. But before the  circulations of an advanced practice like  The Secret of the  Golden  Flower , one must learn to recall the mind to  this area of the body. So that  the  thieves of energy may be purified by the Virtues of the Receptive. I remember in one of my  first classes   my teacher ask ; Where is your mind?' I  raised my hand and said proudly,   it is everywhere. And I was correct. I  spent most of my energy focused  outside my body, the  "thieves" where leading my energy. I was leaking vital  life force by  the gallons so to speak. Then my teacher explained how to recall the mind, for health and vitality.  

So the Secret begins with  having a peaceful mind where I am not looking outwardly but I am  magnetically drawing my attention to my inner life.  I suppose that is  why  the  advanced practice is called Internal Alchemy not External Alchemy. One of the first steps in my training was practicing enough to have a quiet mind for realizing consciously  where my attention is, what leads my energy, how  to  stop the leaks and transform the negative emotions, attachments etc into compost for a rich  soil to plant the seeds of my intentions. . . How can a seed be planted  if  so much is in the way, concepts, other people's thoughts, my cultures indoctrination my ancestors opinions. The  soil/ earth inside my body needed to be  cleaned up  and nourished in the  Virtues of  the Receptive, , amended with  the right compost, microorganisms need to proliferate etc.  I am continuing to work on this everyday. 

[quantumdragon]

Yes it is correct with one IMHO difference: it is a very precise verbiage. May be an inpatient reader may feel it to be general or vague because he or she did not take time to find out the precise definition of each word.

 

 

may be in his method it is not required who knows?

 

 

well, some of them do offer that:

 

6. Signs of Verification of Turning Around the Light

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for this link . It was very interesting read. That  site will be a great aid for me in learning the langue associated with Golden Flower Cultivation. I know this is one of  the obstacles for me personally not knowing what  the  symbols mean or understanding  the culture from which  this language was born. I have been avoiding labeling my experiences because when I am in class we do  a wonderful set of practices where I have amazing new sensations, upgrades  and realizations and then... everyone wants to talk about it. The more they talk and intellectualize the the wondrous manifestations the further away the real thing  just  created gets. I can literally feel  the energy body of the class shift down into ...what a linear diagram? I am content  to view the experience as a whole. In fact sometimes the words look like  a hail storm tearing freshly bloomed flower  petals to shreds. I can relate to what was said about other  peoples voices sounding like echos in the distance. Sometimes after a  class practice when all the talking starts I stay in the experience then I cannot hear them or see them I am encased in a bubble of golden light I can see my body present in the room, I observe there are lips moving with voices coming out but I  am elsewhere, just a step away,  in the  lusciousness suckling  nourishment of  the eternal unborn. My practice is living with the sword of words without losing my center. Again  my gratitude to you Hobo, you are teaching me how to hang in there with brilliant intellectual minds and  remain  authentic.

[quantumdragon]

 

Yes it is correct with one IMHO difference: it is a very precise verbiage. May be an inpatient reader may feel it to be general or vague because he or she did not take time to find out the precise definition of each word.

 

 

I have not taken the time to find out the  precise definition of each word. I find it challenging to try and extrapolate meaning fro other peoples translations. With each translation is  the human  being who  wrote it emotional body, if feel this when I read or hear others words.  But then again  with out  other people translating how could I read any of it! I am so fortunate to have enough gifted multilingual people in my life to help this English speaking American out.   

What I posted earlier today about  what the mystery was was not my best work. I am better with relating a story of how I first encountered my Original Spirit. 

I decided to live my practice. I wanted to  create the extreme polarity of stillness. So I began  by doing Bigu for 30 days  the practicing  Golden Flower exercises and  beefing up Stomach /Pancreas & Lung Large Intestine. I waited for the  Harvest Moon. Then I  closed off my home into only a very small space like a cave. I turned off my phone , shut the drapes to make it dark and began what turned out to be two months of  seclusion. I changed my practice from an active standing to either seated or lying down. I barely moved during those  very long  two months. I did not expect what occurred. The Yin stuff came so overwhelmingly at first then later in waves. During this time I learned to sort out what was what in a way I never had before. I took out a box of pictures of my whole family and all of my friends. I  sat with each one until I could recognized their energy patterns and my own reactions in relationship  to them. I did check my phone and email every few days. After  a few weeks I did not  really need to because I could feel  the signature of who was calling and  what their emotional state was. I continued to do the circulations from the Golden Flower class sitting or lying down which is much harder at first without the legs , arm and mudras but then after a time the energy  get stronger. Here is the interesting thing  that happened when I remove external stimulation. My  little cave became a magnified mirror of my internal life. When the first wave of Yin phenomenon subsided the next began. This part was curious  I was examining  deeper levels of  my unconscious, my genetic linage. For this I had to rely one my internal vision and sometimes google to look up historical information to confirm the time I was experiencing. After several week of  not really knowing the time, sleeping  when ever not on a schedule during a nap I realized something was inside of me , part of me but  distinctly separate .  It, I use the neutral  pronoun on  purpose,  was watching me behind my eyes looking  through my eyes and beyond my eyes. I looked  back at it and realized this is my Original Spirit. This was so fascinating to  relax and allow this intelligence operate my  body and  use my will to align with this marvelous Self. What  did it look like at that stage you ask? It looked much like the  translucent woman of my vision I wrote of  yesterday only golden colored. This was particularly interesting for me as I have seen this in flashes  when looking at  some of my  more advanced fellow students. For weeks I could see this getting stronger and stronger. Soon  this being was  practicing  my body, showing me  all sorts of  techniques I had read about  or done once in a class. It lead  me to  tame  my need to  seek with vehemence anything at all. For those  two months I live as a servant of something greater than but intrinsically a part of  my human self.  I really did not want to  end the fasting and seclusion. All thing have their season. The  end of  this sacred time was fast approaching.

Believe on my schedule to end this womb/cave stillness time was a presentation in front of a crowd! What a way to come back and test if  the flower has been stabilized!   The answer to that my friend is yes and a rather large NO. Good night Hobo. 

[Taoist Texts]

Taoist Texts translates 玄中玄as “a darkness in mystery” and Richard Wilhelm translates 玄中玄 as “still deeper secret of the secret.”  Both translations sound great literally.

 

But, I don’t think that these translations reflect the meaning of Master Lü Dongbin’s expression adequately.  Are there any comments, input and suggestions? 

Apparently none. What does Ms Gonet says on this?

[Taoist Texts]

 So I began  by doing Bigu for 30 days  the practicing  Golden Flower exercises and  beefing up Stomach /Pancreas & Lung Large Intestine. I waited for the  Harvest Moon. Then I  closed off my home into only a very small space like a cave. I turned off my phone , shut the drapes to make it dark and began what turned out to be two months of  seclusion. I changed my practice from an active standing to either seated or lying down. I barely moved during those  very long  two months.

 

Thats amazing, I am awed and touched. Whatever you are doing is so much more beautiful than the worrysome mundane existence of the commoners.

[quantumdragon]

I am with you Hobo. I feel like I am dead ending on this. Actually I never really got off the  ground on this poem. I understand the circulations described reversing the flow from postnatal to prenatal. The times of the living baby in a day, year and  hours cycle.  I  use the  secret gate as a platform with another secret cauldron for firing under  the  Pengali Platform.  I also feel there is a great deal to be said about the  East and in the woman the  Curious organ of the Uterus. You know how a man needs to make an energetic  womb like structure to birth the Original Spirit. .I am  clocked out on the mystery of the last two lines. .  

[quantumdragon]

Hi 

 

Thats amazing, I am awed and touched. Whatever you are doing is so much more beautiful than the worrysome mundane existence of the commoners.

Thank you for your support of my practices. It is easier for me to talk about my actual experiences rather than try to learn a new  symbolic language overnight and be articulate in  using it. .  I am honor by  you high opinion. That was a year ago. I have not felt the golden being as strongly or the same since. Now it is  more like the practice I first wrote to you  about.  I am in awe of your  brilliant mind. I wish I could translate poetry. The mundane part of my existence is writing.you see I am so severly dyslexic it takes hours for me to write a small amount.  Hey I read this exchange about you and I translating the  poem what does it say?  I tried  google translate is said something about detours????

Quote

 

Walker

  03 August  07:42 PM Said

 

Yikes. Here's something for your Google Translate software: 走弯路.

道在苦修妙在傳

須拜明師點玄關

 

 

明師苦心领进门

弟子修行在个人

道在苦修与妙悟

莫入迷津走弯路

[Taoist Texts]

  Hey I read this exchange about you and I translating the  poem what does it say?  I tried  google translate is said something about detours????

Yikes. Here's something for your Google Translate software: 走弯路.

 

Well our good friend Walker apparently disapproves of google translate so he warns you in Chinese that it may lead you down the wrong path

 

走弯路

 - 走弯路 to take an indirect route 以上来源于: Dict.cn [ 展开《新汉英大辞典》 ] 走弯路 [zǒu wān lù] take a wrong path; follow a zigzag course; travel a .

 

Why in chinese? because he can, thats why.

 

Further along is his signature

 

道在苦修妙在傳

須拜明師點玄關

 

taken from a rather lengthy poem by this portly gentleman on the left

 

 

道在苦修妙在传，须拜明师点玄关，

 

Practicing Dao is in bitter austerities, obtaining its magic is from the transmission,

You must bow to an enlightened teacher for a hint of the Dark Gates.

 

My guess is that Walker finds this stanza inspiring for some reason.

 

 

Moving on, our good friend Xuanming, not to be outdone, quotes this

 

明師苦心领进门

弟子修行在个人

道在苦修与妙悟

莫入迷津走弯路

first two lines is a proverb

师父领进门， 修行在个人[shī fu lǐng jìn mén xiū xíng zài gè rén]

The master teaches the trade, but the perfection of the apprentice's skill depends on his own efforts.；

 

The last two

道在苦修与妙悟 Obtaining Dao is in bitter training and marvelous realization,

莫入迷津走弯路 (if so) you will not enter the Ford of Confusion, and roundabout pathways.

 

and? whats that all about?

[Taoist Texts]

 .I am  clocked out on the mystery of the last two lines. .  

may be u dont need them;) you have your practice so why seek something else? Because for something else you may have to start from the scratch.

[quantumdragon]

My sense is my Teacher has  transmitted this mystery to me but I have not been able to make it  conscious .  I still have many more practices to do  before I reach this level of master where the Jade purity has a stable home for the mysterious secret. Not knowing something yet being aware something I have not  experienced  good for a student, it keeps my ego getting to big the  creating obstacles. to actually decode this poem I would have to know the exact circulations with mudras alluded to and  then  practice circulations. Ironically I have  more than have the  practice forms in my material from Golden Flower class my deep lacking is how to  take  these symbols and find which practices.  I may have to get back to this research next week. I am in  a class this weekend designed to cleanse then strengthen certain organ systems. These  classes are very intense.  by the way I wanted to let you know in our school we do not practice  external martial arts.  Ours is for healing and upgrading to Virtues with great health and vitality.

[Taoist Texts]

My sense is my Teacher has  transmitted this mystery to me but I have not been able to make it  conscious .  I still have many more practices to do  before I reach this level of master where the Jade purity has a stable home for the mysterious secret. 

I like secrets!

 

 

[quantumdragon]

I like secrets!

 

 

Me too Hobo. Let us hope Xuanming enlightens us. : )

[Xuanming]

Daeluin  06 August 11:07 AM

 

Mao and you represent sunrise and sunset, or, more importantly, any times when yang begins to overcome yin, and when yin begins to overcome yang.

 

Thank you for pointing out the essence of the time of Mao and You.  

 

 

Daeluin  06 August 11:07 AM

The white also represents metal, the black, water. Metal is also associated with heavenly qi, and with the middle line of Kan. Once the spiritual embryo has returned to the lair of energy, we have the Metal hidden within the Water. The two outer lines of Kan can represent the black that conceals the white, and can be used as a vehicle to flow with, even as the white remains hidden within.

 

This expression of the image of Kan is brilliant, beautiful and inspiring!   Thank you for sharing.  

[Xuanming]

Xuanming, on 05 Aug 2015 - 23:32, said:

 

Taoist Texts translates 玄中玄as “a darkness in mystery” and Richard Wilhelm translates 玄中玄 as “still deeper secret of the secret.”  Both translations sound great literally.

 

But, I don’t think that these translations reflect the meaning of Master Lü Dongbin’s expression adequately.  Are there any comments, input and suggestions? 

 

 

Taoist Texts  06 August 10:08 PM said:

Apparently none.  What does Ms Gonet says on this?

 

I have the same question.  I hope that Ms. Gonet would join our conversation.  

 

Regarding the character Xuan (玄),  certainly you can translate as darkness, or mystery, or secret; literally, however, in Master Lü Dongbin’s poem, he is talking about the advanced internal cultivation. 

 

Hi Taoist Texts, have you practiced Taoist quiet sitting before?   If yes, have you experienced the state of emptiness, or the empty space between thoughts or between images or between thought and image? 

 

During the quiet sitting practice, if you observe the thoughts or images in your mind screen carefully, you may experience an interesting phenomenon: a time frame of past-present-future changes to future-present-past.   In the beginning, a thought stays in the mind for while, then goes away, and becomes the past.  Then a new thought comes; before this present thought goes away, another future thought is waiting to come into the mind.  You may find there is an empty space between thoughts or between images, or between thought and image.  

 

Master Lü Dongbin’s玄中玄 (Xuan in the xuan), echoes Lao Zi’s Dao De Jing beautifully as chapter one states:

 

道 可 道 ， 非 常 道 。 名 可 名 ， 非 常 名 。

无 名 天 地 之 始 ﹔ 有 名 万 物 之 母 。

故 常 无 ， 欲 以 观 其 妙 ﹔ 常 有 ， 欲 以 观 其 徼 。

此 两 者 ， 同 出 而 异 名 ， 同 谓 之 玄 。玄 之 又 玄 ， 众 妙 之 门 。

 

Here Lao Zi gave the Xuan a new meaning: state of mind between emptiness and new thought or image appearance, or between the Wu and You, in other words, Xuan means the Gate of Dao, the First Entrance of the Dao of Internal Cultivation.  This Gate of Xuan is not easy to enter for people who have very strong intellectual drive or big fat ego, particularly inflated big fat ego.

 

Master Lü Dongbin’s玄中玄 (Xuan in the xuan), echoes Lao Zi’s玄 之 又 玄 (Entering further into deep state of Xuan after the Gate of Xuan).