Neidan vs Alchemy: The object vs The process

[hagar]

Thanks for sharing Hagar

I dont mean to pry but if i may..is that how you started 10 years ago? With a teacher?

yup

[Taoist Texts]

To sum up the previous exposition:

 

Alchemy is a religion which includes a relatively insignificant subset of elixir creation.

Neidan is a non-religious energetic practice of elixir creation.

 

 

The counterpart of the western alchemiy in China is a Taoist religion of Quanzhen which requires observation of moral precepts, celibacy, vegetarianism, religious rituals, heremeticism, monasticism, charity, humility and almost as an afterthought, as something that is supposed to happen automatically based on the merits of the above - elixir creation.

[LaoZiDao]

The counterpart of the western alchemiy in China is a Taoist religion of Quanzhen which requires observation of moral precepts, celibacy, vegetarianism, religious rituals, heremeticism, monasticism, charity, humility and almost as an afterthought, as something that is supposed to happen automatically based on the merits of the above - elixir creation.

 

You're speaking nothing about the ancient Daoism, only modern Daoism.

 

What you said about Quanzhen Dao is completely wrong, and very common modern views / ideas. Nothing related to the ancient Dao.

[LaoZiDao]

What is neidan semantically? Literally it means internal elixir. I.e it is not a practice, it is an object. To say that "I practice neidan" is incorrect, since an object can not be practiced.

 

Who cares how you call it? The name is not important, the method is.

[Taoist Texts]

What you said about Quanzhen Dao is completely wrong,

Hi;)

 

care to support your statement somehow? Thanks

[LaoZiDao]

Hi;)

 

care to support your statement somehow? Thanks

 

Pretty much it's been discussed multiple times over and over. I don't feel like repeating it, it's not necessary.

[steve]

Discussions such as these are not really all that fruitful, and can possibly lead to confusion of someone potentially able to reckognize and start the practice.

 

In my experience, and probably I am not alone in this, reading Nei Dan texts is as informative as reading notes while not being trained jn music. 

 

I´ve practiced internal alchemy for a decade, yet haven´t started to grasp the initial subtleties yet. The only thing I have learnt is that fundamentally what you call it, and what text you read is totally irrellevant, as much as having a degree in geology can harness the heat in a volcano.

 

When the Daoist canon states that the subtleties must be intuited, it´s an understatement. 

 

If you want to practice, find a teacher. It takes fire to start a fire.

 

Don´t waste your time.

 

h

 

Quoted for emphasis...

 

And these eloquent comments apply equally well to Daoist cultivation, Buddhist and Bon practices, martial arts, and so forth.

I may have to borrow your similes from time to time if you don't mind.

Warm regards,

[hagar]

Quoted for emphasis...

 

And these eloquent comments apply equally well to Daoist cultivation, Buddhist and Bon practices, martial arts, and so forth.

I may have to borrow your similes from time to time if you don't mind.

Warm regards,

 Well I´ve been using yours, so that´s just fair 

[thelerner]

 

Who cares how you call it? The name is not important, the method is.

I agree with this, I often use the two terms to mean the same thing. 

Still its nice to have native speakers remind us about the niceties every now and then.    Its certainly doesn't seem worth fighting about.  It gets close to what is Real Taoism and the whole religious vs philosophical debates.

[Green Tiger]

Discussions such as these are not really all that fruitful, and can possibly lead to confusion of someone potentially able to reckognize and start the practice.

 

In my experience, and probably I am not alone in this, reading Nei Dan texts is as informative as reading notes while not being trained jn music. 

 

I´ve practiced internal alchemy for a decade, yet haven´t started to grasp the initial subtleties yet. The only thing I have learnt is that fundamentally what you call it, and what text you read is totally irrellevant, as much as having a degree in geology can harness the heat in a volcano.

 

When the Daoist canon states that the subtleties must be intuited, it´s an understatement. 

 

If you want to practice, find a teacher. It takes fire to start a fire.

 

Don´t waste your time.

 

h

 

This should probably be pinned somewhere.  Sums up a lot of discussions.

 

It is nice to TRY and have discussions about these things, but it can be difficult and misunderstandings abound.  I feel for the people who are trying to go it alone and I suppose an online community is better than no community at all, but you really need (not just a good teacher) but a good community of students for support.

[SonOfTheGods]

Type, less.

Practice, more.

Repeat.

 

[Enishi]

Going along with the observations on discussions going nowhere, I'm also getting tired of all the "my kungfu is better than your kungfu" that plagues both this forum and everywhere else. So long as your practice makes you happy and slowly opens the doors to the great mystery, does it really need to be the "best"?

[Aetherous]

Going along with the observations on discussions going nowhere, I'm also getting tired of all the "my kungfu is better than your kungfu" that plagues both this forum and everywhere else. So long as your practice makes you happy and slowly opens the doors to the great mystery, does it really need to be the "best"?

 

It kind of sucks when you realize that every system is the best, in different aspects...and then you have to be exclusive to one.

 

...edit: not "every system". I am only referring to legitimate schools.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Aetherous

[ケンジ]

Muskrat changes his mind.

Edited June 15, 2015 by ケンジ

[Taoist Texts]

Type, less.

Practice, more.

Repeat.

 

don't ask if you are in a hole

keep digging