Oneironaut

Do Taoist Yoga Nidra/Dream Yoga Practices Exist?

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Yoga nidra (also known as yogic sleep or sleep yoga, and not to be confused with dream yoga) is a state of conscious deep sleep. Through yoga nidra one can sleep 30 minutes to an hour and that would equate to 3 or 4 hours of regular sleep. Yoga nidra was not designed to replace regular sleep but since one can stay conscious through sleep onset this means that hypnagogic imagery can be experienced which in turn can lead to lucid dreaming and astral projection.

 

Dream yoga on the other hand is a Tibetan practice with some of the goals being to awaken the consciousness within the dream state or astral travel. Dream yoga and yoga nidra are where the dream practices that sprung up in the west, otherwise known as lucid dreaming, have their roots.

 

My question here is (as asked in the topic title) does the tao contain it's own practice of yoga nidra and dream yoga?

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I've been into yoga nidra lately.  Mostly in the form of listening to yoga teachers audio's that bring one into a deep trance, work out san culpas/desires as well as move through opposites.  Probably easier to experience then describe.  Here's a very good source for free downloads - http://www.yoganidranetwork.org/downloads and another more informational - http://www.swamij.com/yoga-nidra.htm

 

To the question of Tao.. some taoists I've spoken to were surprisingly against dream practices, at least doing them as a regular practice and rather saw sleep as a chance to go into a very deeply refreshing state.  No work, just going deep and dark, not even any dreams!?   In some ways maybe that is the most natural, the very essence of sleep, descent into a pure rest state. 

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Qigong master Yan Xin's teacher at Shaolin - Master Haidan - is described by Yan Xin in his Benefits of cultivating qigong book - free pdf online - that Master Haidan went 60 years with no sleep. He was able to stop the mind waves in his cerebrum so he was in deep sleep even more than just the few minutes of deep sleep that everyone is required.

 

So from Ramana Maharshi's teachings - Vedic philosophy - Turiya, the fourth state, is beyond deep sleep or being consciously aware of deep sleep - as the  Emptiness consciousness or formless awareness - and so - actually we can infer this just by realizing that after a good night's sleep we experience deeper bliss. So the deepest bliss in our life is when we are not even aware of our individual self nor aware of the universe as spacetime. So then who are we really - ? What is really aware of that state of sleep?

 

So then in Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality it is taught that a good night's sleep means no bad dreams with evil thoughts and evil thoughts are when during sleep your spirit descends from the heart to the lower abdomen and the evil thoughts of your spirit then convert your qi energy into reproductive fluid that leaves the body. So that type of dream is not an illusion since it is very real. So then purification is required before sleep - to prepare for sleep - because the subconscious energy has to be purified since the bad dreams can be provoked even by no evil thoughts - the nocturnal emission can occur during deep dreamless sleep. In other words the subconscious perceptions from images, etc. have to also be purified. So it is essential in Taoist Yoga to purify the energy before sleep - which means first sublimation practices and then purification. So various factors hinder that like diet, exercise, etc. Being too sleepy is actually the worst hindrance for the Taoist Yoga training - worse than gluttony or lust which can be corrected with proper sublimation and purification.

 

Usually for me I am able to wake myself from dreams when they start to turn bad - so it's not necessarily an astral dream but I suddenly in my dream get the impression that something is very wrong and I am against it - and so I force myself awake, out of the dream. Other times if a dream is going very well then I start levitating and flying and I've read this is when the yin chi energy, the psychic lunar energy, is built up in the body - then there's more flying dreams.

 

For me then - I have had dreams that were more real than being awake. The first time was before I even practiced qigong but soon after I had met a qigong master Effie P. Chow. So I woke up and recorded in my journal that since the dream was more real than being awake I thought the dream was predicting the future. The dream was very specific and unusual and indeed it came true exactly - three years later long after I had forgotten recording it. When I experienced the dream come true I got this uncanny sensation and I went to go look the dream up in my old journal. haha.

 

Since then I have had many precognitive dreams and I record them in my qigong journal. So in the past year I've had probably ten precognitive dreams that I"m aware of. But the key again is to be able to predict that they are precognitive and to do so then you have to realize the dream is more real than being awake - the dream features perceptions that are more vivid. But precognitive dreams mainly are based on deep emotional events - often surrounding death, the parting of another person's spirit from their mental consciousness - into the dream astral realm itself. I've had precognitive dreams about three deaths of people close to me but one person was from a lady whom I had not seen in years and had barely talked to since I was a child 20 years previously. But she had been like a 2nd mother to me - so then the dream had predicted her death just a week before - or maybe around the same time but I heard the news a week later. Another time I got a message of someone's death right when it happened - while I was in full lotus at the computer.

 

Anyway so then after the experiences of precognitive dreams we have to realize that the normal waking state is also a type of holographic dream reality that is actually a lower astral realm than the spiritual dream states. A good book on this is called Transcendent Dreaming - by a lady who practices qigong and martial arts. She has had psychokinetic dreams where she changes the physical reality of people around her - doing healing, etc. and then wakes up with herself being physically changed also.

 

So for Taoist Yoga - I know the qigong master highly values the messages of dreams as being a type of astral travel.

 

Taoist Yoga teaches that as the energy advances then you can go without sleep as a deep serenity meditation practice. So when the qigong master did deep cave meditation then he was not allowed to sleep during that time - he just stayed in full lotus the whole time - for a month and then again for 2 months. So then he did astral travel into heaven at that time. The qigong masters regularly do 4 hours of deep full lotus meditation a night and then sleep for a few hours.

 

I reached that level for a week or so when I needed only 5 hours of sleep and I still had more energy than usual - but ironically I did this by fasting for a week - a dry fast with just half a glass of water. So the yang qi energy had kicked in where the strong electromagnetic energy was able to create water, create nutrients, etc.

 

But we can see that the 11 pm to 1 am time for meditation considered the best for the upper tan tien - when the yin energy is strongest - is also when melatonin levels are peaked in the body. Melatonin is a super-antioxidant that is now used as a healer of cancer and is timed when it naturally peaks so as to resonant with its cycle for healing the body. And so in qigong it is taught that the cave meditation in dark naturally increases your melatonin levels to very high levels so then more pinoline is created naturally and this in turn, as an MAOI, naturally increases your DMT levels. Then DMT, as science has discovered, creates a vivid dream vision state, and is the active ingredient in the Amazonian visionary medicines. So what happens in qigong is the celibacy naturally boosts the serotonin of the lower body up into the brain because the blood brain barrier is ionized, thereby allowing serotonin to pass through. This is not verified by western science, of course - but actually the DMT plant drugs have a similar boost by being taken with strong MAOIs - that also boost the serotonin levels.  Serotonin then converts to melatonin - again at very high levels and the increased DMT is made from the pineal gland but also works to further open up the pineal gland as the "Cavity of Prenatal Vitality" as taught in Taoist Yoga - it is an electromagnetic door way that powers the spirit into the astral realm.

 

So if you turn the light around this prevents your spirit from descending down - subconsciously as evil thoughts, instead the spirit descends down with the power of the pineal gland qi energy and in turn creates the lower tan tien as an actual visionary center gateway in the body - that when filled up via the lower body serotonin - converting to melatonin - it is the 2nd brain of the body itself. Dreaming doesn't have to be limited to the brain.

 

 

 

 

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Oh yeah I've also found that taking spirulina gives me much more vivid dreams.

 

So spirulina is very dense in cholorophyll and magnesium, the green in chlorophyll, is a photoreceptor which means it converts photons (shen spirit light) into electrons (qi energy).

 

So in TCM then the blood is considered very close to qi energy creation and chlorophyll is actually eating red blood cells - only the magnesium is just changed with iron internally - otherwise chlorophyll has the same exact structure as red blood.

 

So by eating spirulina you actually clean the blood and create more qi energy that way.

 

But anyway it makes the dreams have more vivid colors.

 

So strong pigments in the food also increase the dream colors.

 

For example Milarepa when he wasn't in samadhi would eat stinging nettles as his main food source - so much that his skin turned green. Strong pigment foods will do that - like carrots (orange skin) or garlic (sulfur yellow). So the pigments on the skin then again act as photoreceptors to change spirit light energy to qi energy internally.

 

So for example Krishna has blue skin and I think this maybe because serotonin is increased by blue light - science uses blue lights to naturally increase serotonin in people. Or conversely blue lights from computers keep people awake since the artificially induced serotonin prevents the natural serotonin from turning into melatonin. So you then can download a program to change the color of your computer screen at night - to stop the blue light - so that the artificial light doesn't mess up your melatonin levels which in turn would mess up your dreaming. The program is called flux or f.lux.

 

Anyway so when I was in the Andes and I was in love with a female there and we were platonic so the sublimation of my energy made my heart very hot - but then I went into the amazing vision state with the life passing before me as a review that was not chronological but revealed all the subconscious psychological meanings of events linked years apart - resolving deep inner conflicts - all unfolding in a visionary dream state that I couldn't stop - in the middle of the night - so dreaming while awake. Then I realized later in my research that high elevation naturally increases your melatonin levels to a very high level - so maybe this is why meditation in the mountains is considered so great to do.

 

 

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Yes there is a form of yoga nidra within daoist practices but it simply goes by the name of shui gong (sleeping practice). Within Longmen pai we have 9 basic methods ( but there are others) and once a certain level of proficiency in them is reached they are combined together into one form that brings about an equilibrium of yin and yang. There can also manifest vision/scenery aspects to the practice beyond the usual qi manifestations.

 

The basic practices are as outlined in the Lingbao Bifa

 

Best

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Re:

-----

"only the magnesium is just changed with iron internally - otherwise chlorophyll has the same exact structure as red blood."

-----

 

Plant and animal life are complimentary opposites, and the vegetal world is giving birth to the animal. This is what is demonstrated by the differences in the structure of chlorophyll and hemoglobin.

 

Blue-green algae is representative of a very primitive part of animal evolution, something like an intermediary between primitive plant life and primative animal life. Eating a lot of this could influence our cells back to this kind of intermediary state, and may result in strange cell growth consistent with cancer.

 

The animals which have in the past subsisted on very primative plant life, such as is represented by some algae and plants like asparagus, artichokes, etc - these animals were "dinosaurs", not human beings, and not even apes.

 

-----

"Milarepa when he wasn't in samadhi would eat stinging nettles as his main food source - so much that his skin turned green. Strong pigment foods will do that - like carrots (orange skin) or garlic (sulfur yellow). So the pigments on the skin then again act as photoreceptors to change spirit light energy to qi energy internally."

-----

 

There is a long tradition of this sort, wherein shamans and other cultivators have eaten food that is not typically human food. Sennin in the mountains eating pine needles, etc.

 

For modern people, these techniques are not effective. They will first need to change entirely their living and diet just to prepare, and that will take many years - just to get to the point where this would be applicable at all to begin with.

 

-----

"Krishna has blue skin and I think this maybe because serotonin is increased by blue light - science uses blue lights to naturally increase serotonin in people."

-----

 

This higher frequency, ultraviolet, is representing orientation. This is approached in darkness training via the other end of the spectrum - infrared. By continual exposure in the infrared end of the spectrum, a kind of sensitization occurs to ultraviolet and beyond - higher frequency light.

 

Coming out of 7+ years of dark training, you actually see almost everything as blue when you return to the full normal spectrum. After 14+ years, this becomes a stable, premanent condition that is under conscious control. In other words, you have trained to see this part of the spectrum, and you do.

 

In the dark training, after this shift occurs, you start seeing energy as if it were steam/light, like steam from a water vaporizer, coming from and going into objects, people, places, etc. It may be that the visual spectrum training sensitizes you to this. Later, out of the dark training, this energy is even moreso visible than it was in the training.

 

Preparation for this training is too involved for almost everyone today. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the aims and objectives of modern society, and virtually no persons in developed countries are in the condition to begin it with any productive trajectory. But for those willing and able to completely change their life orientation as just one early prerequisite, this training is still possible.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Edited by vonkrankenhaus

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Re:

-----

"only the magnesium is just changed with iron internally - otherwise chlorophyll has the same exact structure as red blood."

-----

 

Blue-green algae is representative of a very primitive part of animal evolution, something like an intermediary between primitive plant life and primative animal life. Eating a lot of this could influence our cells back to this kind of intermediary state, and may result in strange cell growth consistent with cancer.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Dude if you're going to fear-monger give some evidence.

 

When I do the work for you by looking up evidence what do I find?

 

the opposite of your claim.

 

 

ANTI-CANCER EFFECTS

Several studies show Spirulina or its extracts can prevent or inhibit cancers in humans and animals. Some common forms of cancer are thought to be a result of damaged cell DNA running amok, causing uncontrolled cell growth. Cellular biologists have defined a system of special enzymes called Endonuclease which repair damaged DNA to keep cells alive and healthy. When these enzymes are deactivated by radiation or toxins, errors in DNA go un-repaired and cancer may develop. In vitro studies suggest the unique polysaccharides of Spirulina enhance cell nucleus enzyme activity and DNA repair synthesis. This may be why several scientific studies, observing human tobacco users and experimental cancers in animals, report high levels of suppression of several important types of cancer. The subjects were fed either whole Spirulina or treated with its water extracts.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25583023

 

 

 

Clinical Summary
Blue-green algae, also known as Cyanobacteria, are primitive autotrophic prokaryotes. They are a source of food in some parts of the world and patients take the supplemental form to prevent and treat cancer and viral infections, and for weight loss.

http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/herb/blue-green-algae

 

Also your use of the term

 

"primitive" in a negative moral sense belies a misunderstanding of evolution and indicates some sort of possible racist viewpoint or at the minimum a view of linear time progress as evolution.

 

Spirulina shown to prevent and treat cancers while boosting immune system function

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Re:

-----

"Dude if you're going to fear-monger give some evidence.

When I do the work for you by looking up evidence what do I find?

the opposite of your claim."

-----

 

I was not "fear-mongering" whatsoever.

 

Yes, you found some links showing some studies have been done that suggest spirulina, or some component in it, may have some "anti-cancer" properties.

 

What you need to see are people who have tried to treat cancer with it.

 

And you also need to see people who have been eating a lot of it for many years.

 

As a disclaimer, I have researched cancer for over 30 years and have extensive experience with "alternative" cancer treatments. I also worked at one time for the largest pharmaceutical company in the world explaining chemogenomics and drug targetting to new graduates/job recruits in that industry.

 

I have also spent 35+ years studying plant medicine.

 

My opinion is that spirulina is not going to be a miracle cure for very much, and I see that continual use of it as a food or as a medicine may cause some problems. I do not care in what I wrote that anyone has isolated "useful compounds" from it, because at that point it wouldn't be "spirulina" anyway.

 

-----

"Also your use of the term

 

"primitive" in a negative moral sense belies a misunderstanding of evolution and indicates some sort of possible racist viewpoint or at the minimum a view of linear time progress as evolution."

-----

 

Actually, there really are comparatively "primitive" forms of life, and also more recent ones. Ferns are an example of primitive and very old form, and grasses are an example of a more recent form of plant life.

 

Primative - primal, primary, etc. Older. Earlier.

 

Is this the racism you detected? Or my "pidgin" english?

 

In terms of linear time evolution, without the idea of linear time we are no longer talking about evolution in the common sense of the idea. My intent was not to define or debate evolution as an idea, but to point out that spirulina is a very old form of life. Linear time is important to this if we consider that at one point in linear time the Earth had a completely different atmosphere, and at one point, not even really oxygen-based, and at other points, almost totally humid with vapor. Things growing then, appearing at various times, were very different from now - which may be important to know when talking about various life forms that have emerged on Earth and our relationship to them today.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Edited by vonkrankenhaus
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The "component" in spirulina that is anti-cancer is the concentrated chlorophyll acting as an antioxidant. You suggest that since algae originated when there was little oxygen on Earth it may be carcinogenic - but since chlorophyll is anti-oxidant that claim is not true.

 

You also suggest that you know people who have failed to treat cancer using spirulina - but that is not the claim you made - you claimed that spirulina causes cancer.

 

So that's very tricky on your part to try to switch things around. haha.

 

Obviously I know primitive means older in linear time - but my point is you are claiming it means it is more harmful because it is older.

 

 

Both types, probably 1000 million years after their initial merger, retain their own depleted stores of DNA. The ribosomal DNA genes of mitochondria still strikingly resemble those of oxygen-respiring bacteria living on their own today. The ribosomal genes of plastids are very much like those of cyanobacteria (4).

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312238/

 

So the issue here is actually that mitrochondria and spirulina are actually complementary opposites - the one giving off oxygen as a free radical when it creates ATP and the other, spirulina, taking in oxygen as an anti-oxidant.

 

 

 

mitochondria-mediated
apoptosis.

 

That's the main cited means of how spirulina kills cancer - as a complementary opposite to its sister ancient symbiotic bacteria.

 

 

In a first of its kind report, the potential use of Spirulina
in chemoprevention of cancer has been demonstrated in
dibutyl nitrosamine (DBN) induced rat liver toxicity and
carcinogenesis. Spirulina supplementation prevented DMN
induced severe liver injury and histopathological abnormalities.
Also, spirulina supplementation reduced the incidence
of liver tumors from 80% to 20%.

 

and guess what?

 

 

In one of the first human studies, the chemopreventive activity
of Spirulina fusiformis (SF) (1 g/day for 12 months) in
reversing oral leukoplakia in pan tobacco chewers in Kerala,
India has been reported. Complete regression of lesions was
observed in 45% evaluable subjects supplemented with SF,
as opposed to 7% in the placebo group. Within one year
of discontinuing supplements, 9 of 20 (45%) complete
responders with SF developed recurrent lesions. Supplementation
with SF did not result in increased serum concentration
of retinol or beta-carotene, nor was it associated
with toxicity.31

 

tests on humans have been done. So where's your evidence claiming tests on human cancer has failed? Sounds like more fear-mongering.

 

 

Spirulina is a protective
phyto-antioxidant against liver toxicity and an antitumor
agent.

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDwQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dovepress.com%2Fgetfile.php%3FfileID%3D7160&ei=4eLkVOWVIYKWNrargcAL&usg=AFQjCNGfMEOKOVCM4-8bP_BJmn5ARPjZCA&bvm=bv.85970519,d.eXY&cad=rja

 

pdf link

 

And your disclaimer is definitely that - haha. Sounds like a corporate science reductionist bias.

 

Again show some evidence that spirulina causes cancer because it's a more "primitive" life form.

 

We all have very primitive life forms as critical parts of us - mitrochondria from the same ancient origin of spirulina.

 

Do mitochondria cause cancer? I suppose yes since they create free radicals. As it is said we all create cancer cells via free radicals it's just a matter of whether our immune system creates the anti-oxidants to kill them off. I suppose too many anti-oxidants cause cancer also but the above study took that into effect by testing for toxicity - none was found.

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Re:

-----

"you claimed that spirulina causes cancer."

-----

 

Not really, and not literally.

 

I wrote "Eating a lot of this could influence our cells back to this kind of intermediary state, and may result in strange cell growth consistent with cancer."

 

And this is my opinion based on my own experience and study.

 

No doubt that spirulina may do something to some cancers that would be seen as beneficial, but not all cancers, and not cancer in general, and any benefit will need to be seen as part of a longer trajectory of using it - and what I am saying is that spirulina will not likely be used as-is to successfully treat most cancer, that spirulina as-is will not cure cancer overall, and that eating it habitually as a food could result in some strange effects that would become more obvious in the long term.

 

That is just my opinion, my own perspective. Not thinking anyone would get scared by it.

 

If I am incorrect, then we will see much more evidence that I am soon - especially if it is being studied now very actively. The studies you point to are very interesting, but do not really change what I have seen myself.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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So...yeah....daoist yoga nidra anyone? Before this goes so far off topic that no one realises it's not a thread about whether Spiralina cures or causes cancer. Just saying...

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If I am incorrect, then we will see much more evidence that I am soon

 

 

That's wrong logic.

 

You're not correct without any evidence and lots of evidence to the contrary already.

 

If you make a hypothesis in science it should be based on evidence.

 

You're not just inherently correct until evidence proves you wrong - that's backward logic.

 

http://www.wakingtimes.com/2014/11/16/top-8-supplements-boost-pineal-gland-function/

 

The real question is why are dreams more vivid in color after spirulina?

 

the green pigment is a photoreceptor - magnesium is a photoreceptor.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/664273

 

Sure enough google magnesium photoreceptor pineal gland and bingo.

 

Dreams are from the pineal gland.

 

So that answers my claim of why spirulina increases your dream strength.

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I believe that in Ken Cohens work, he speaks very breifly about Tao dream yoga. 

 

He basically says that dreams are connected to the element of water, so in Tao Dream yoga you keep a bowl of pure water by your bed. 

This approach suggests that this form of Tao dream yoga is working in the following levels:

 

1.  Ritualistic-  By taking the time to preform the action of placing a bowl of water by your bed, you are maintaining an awareness of your intent to experience lucid and meaningful dreams. 

 

2.  Symbolic-  The action of leaving the bowl of water by your bed presents a symbol of lucid dreaming to the mind.  As the mind is primarily unconscious in the dream state and the unconscious mind communicates in a symbolic language,  you are communicating your intention to experience lucid dreams to you unconscious mind in its own language.

 

3.  Energetic-  The energetic influence of the water is suggested to enhance ones ability to enter into the water dominant dream state consciously. 

 

This approach seems characteristic of tao philosophy.  Accomplish means in a simple and graceful action, without effort (watery approach). 

 

It seems like it could offer an alternative to practicioners who find the common western approach to lucid dreaming to be innefective due to the stress of consciously placing emphasis on the practices (firey approach). 

 

To others this practice could offer a balance to the buddhist and western approaches.  In this case the practice of both aspects might enhance each other.

 

I am interested in learning of other Tao Dream techniques as well.

 

Love and Light

Tony

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So...yeah....daoist yoga nidra anyone? Before this goes so far off topic .. Just saying...

Closest I have to daoist yoga nidra are from Minke De Vos, her Tao Basics CD from Silent Ground.  The longest one, Deep Body Smile has a brief relaxation then takes you through the organ/gods with there taoist features then sweeps out the brain.  An excellent experiential 'trip' through the taoist map of the body.

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Thank you guys so much for your responses. I've done some Google searches and it seems like the Taoist versions of these practices do exist but are mostly obscure. Lucid dreaming, yoga nidra and Tibetan dream yoga on the other hand are more easily accessible for some reason and I would be more than happy to indulge myself in the latter two. I'm just a little bit weary of mixing different systems togethor. I've watched an interview with Michael Winn and he seems to suggest that the Taoist versions of the practices are much more effortless and extremely effective. I've found some information on Shui Gong but I do not know on how to further pursue the practice. I'm also interested in it as it suggests learning telepathy (something else I'm interested in) can be learned. Does anyone have any more information on this and how I can pursue learning the skill of taoist dream yoga and yoga nidra from teachers who are legit and qualified?

Edited by Oneironaut

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Returning to this topic after the spirulina disputation, a past teacher of mine John Dolic (Sydney, Australia) teaches sleeping qigong:

http://www.qigongchinesehealth.com/sleeping_qigong

 

I have attempted to learn this but it requires a highly developed sense of visualisation abilities, something I do not currently possess.

 

John also teaches relaxation qigong (indeed has a downloadable MP3 for purchase) which is more akin to the Yoga Nidra, given it is more kinesiologically focused than sleeping qigong: http://www.qigongchinesehealth.com/relaxation_qigong 

 

There are instructions on a similar form in Chinese Medical Qigong edited Tianjun Liu.

 

I also notice that Hua Ching Ni provides very basic instruction on sleeping qigong of the immortal Chen Tuan in Life & Teachings of Two Immortals, Volume 2.

Edited by altiora

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Re:

-----

"Krishna has blue skin and I think this maybe because serotonin is increased by blue light - science uses blue lights to naturally increase serotonin in people."

-----

 

This higher frequency, ultraviolet, is representing orientation. This is approached in darkness training via the other end of the spectrum - infrared. By continual exposure in the infrared end of the spectrum, a kind of sensitization occurs to ultraviolet and beyond - higher frequency light.

 

Coming out of 7+ years of dark training, you actually see almost everything as blue when you return to the full normal spectrum. After 14+ years, this becomes a stable, premanent condition that is under conscious control. In other words, you have trained to see this part of the spectrum, and you do.

 

In the dark training, after this shift occurs, you start seeing energy as if it were steam/light, like steam from a water vaporizer, coming from and going into objects, people, places, etc. It may be that the visual spectrum training sensitizes you to this. Later, out of the dark training, this energy is even moreso visible than it was in the training.

 

Preparation for this training is too involved for almost everyone today. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the aims and objectives of modern society, and virtually no persons in developed countries are in the condition to begin it with any productive trajectory. But for those willing and able to completely change their life orientation as just one early prerequisite, this training is still possible.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

I agree with you that these are yogic practices that are impossible for someone training within society. This maybe the reason why some tibetian monastries train in darkness for years.  Where did you gain these facts from ? Have you practiced in darkness for extended periods of time ?  These characterestics supposedly arise from a deep meditation practice of a monk, according to buddhist teachings. Darkness helps in guiding the mind inwards.

 

Thank you guys so much for your responses. I've done some Google searches and it seems like the Taoist versions of these practices do exist but are mostly obscure. Lucid dreaming, yoga nidra and Tibetan dream yoga on the other hand are more easily accessible for some reason and I would be more than happy to indulge myself in the latter two. I'm just a little bit weary of mixing different systems togethor. I've watched an interview with Michael Winn and he seems to suggest that the Taoist versions of the practices are much more effortless and extremely effective. I've found some information on Shui Gong but I do not know on how to further pursue the practice. I'm also interested in it as it suggests learning telepathy (something else I'm interested in) can be learned. Does anyone have any more information on this and how I can pursue learning the skill of taoist dream yoga and yoga nidra from teachers who are legit and qualified?

What is your intention ? Why are you seeking "telepathic abilities  and  lucid dreaming" ? 

 

Hm bowl of water... being well hydrated helps too

Excellent advice.  Anyone who has relatively good diet habits and meditation practice will know the impact of water on body. I can feel dehydration (within few days), if i consume less than  8 or 9 cups  of water/day. One side effect  i feel is the increase in number of urinations, but this could be simply due to aging.  At a minimum i need 5 cups a day to sustain - soda does not count :-)

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"Have you practiced in darkness for extended periods of time ?  These characterestics supposedly arise from a deep meditation practice of a monk, according to buddhist teachings. Darkness helps in guiding the mind inwards."

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I have studied darkness training since the mid-70s, and have done two extended trainings of 3 years and 13+ years.

 

But this is not part of the concerns of people today. Just going out of all this society for a few years, seeing only animals and plants and maybe one or two or a few people doing the same thing, and then going back - would be monumental for most people - even if they did no training at all and just found out how to live like that.

 

What is going on now is not really human life, but "something else".

 

Darkness training has several effects. One is to develop sensitivity to vibrations just at and beyond visible light, including vibration from deep space. The pineal gland is involved with translating energy into mental imagery and thought in human terms. This is a form of "psychic" knowing.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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What is going on now is not really human life, but "something else".

It is death, the technocractic world created by the forces of darkness.

The Organic Light/Life must be revived

Edited by eye_of_the_storm

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Re:

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"Have you practiced in darkness for extended periods of time ?  These characterestics supposedly arise from a deep meditation practice of a monk, according to buddhist teachings. Darkness helps in guiding the mind inwards."

-----

 

I have studied darkness training since the mid-70s, and have done two extended trainings of 3 years and 13+ years.

Just to clarify.....your trainings were in darkness, or you are talking about just seclusion in a forest ? If  you spent that much time in seclusion, 

  1. I am amazed that you lived like a yogi, more austere than a monk !
  2. I am eager to know of your experiences, and i am sure there would be lot of others here, who can learn from you.

 

But this is not part of the concerns of people today. Just going out of all this society for a few years, seeing only animals and plants and maybe one or two or a few people doing the same thing, and then going back - would be monumental for most people - even if they did no training at all and just found out how to live like that.

 

What is going on now is not really human life, but "something else".

Change and spiritual degradation of humans has been prophacized by many spiritual leaders, including Buddha himself. We are lucky to be living in this time, when still some sense of morality/spirituality is left out. I fear for the day, when humans declare victory over morality & spirituality,  in the name of scientific acheivements/peak.  Every single emotion/trait/thought  would be accorded to a gene-specific, and morality & spirituality may be considered only in terms of genetics. The path towards this is slow degradation of humans, and we are living in early stages of it, i think.

 

Darkness training has several effects. One is to develop sensitivity to vibrations just at and beyond visible light, including vibration from deep space. The pineal gland is involved with translating energy into mental imagery and thought in human terms. This is a form of "psychic" knowing.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

How old were you,  when you "saw"  the energy spectrum beyond visible light ? Was your practice all in darkness, or was it simply a meditation practice in seclusion that led to this "seeing" ?  Which part of the world  did you practice in ?  Thanks for sharing.

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Re:

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"Just to clarify.....your trainings were in darkness, or you are talking about just seclusion in a forest ?"

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I have done darkness trainings. Also have done training living in forest outside. I have been training for some years, with modern unreal living put like more of a sideline, an extra little thing. I do recognize that I did something "unusual" but every day makes sense to me perfectly, and I do not feel like any trade has been made or that I am odd or anything like that. Really, it's the opposite.

 

I'm trying to write about it in this forum. Very interesting to see the subjects people are writing about online.

 

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"The path towards this is slow degradation of humans, and we are living in early stages of it, i think."

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Not early.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

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For what it¬īs worth, Juan Li, a senior healing tao instructor, used to teach a weekend workshop in Dream Yoga. ¬†Not sure if he still does. ¬†Not that that proves it¬īs a traditional practice or anything.

 

Taoist practice is vast, and it¬īs hard for me to imagine sleep and dream practices aren¬īt a part of it somewhere. ¬†Afterall, sleeping and dreaming are part of the human experience. ¬†I¬īd think that at a certain point, regardless of the spiritual path followed, consciousness illuminates that part of our lives. ¬†Not because someones allegiance is to Taoism, Buddhism, Yoga or what have you, but because that¬īs the natural trajectory of spiritual development.

 

Liminal

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Yoga nidra (also known as yogic sleep or sleep yoga, and not to be confused with dream yoga) is a state of conscious deep sleep. Through yoga nidra one can sleep 30 minutes to an hour and that would equate to 3 or 4 hours of regular sleep. Yoga nidra was not designed to replace regular sleep but since one can stay conscious through sleep onset this means that hypnagogic imagery can be experienced which in turn can lead to lucid dreaming and astral projection.

 

Dream yoga on the other hand is a Tibetan practice with some of the goals being to awaken the consciousness within the dream state or astral travel. Dream yoga and yoga nidra are where the dream practices that sprung up in the west, otherwise known as lucid dreaming, have their roots.

 

My question here is (as asked in the topic title) does the tao contain it's own practice of yoga nidra and dream yoga?

 

dream yoga, OBE, lucid dreaming etc are not practised at all. 

What you describe as yoga nidra has some parallels, but in Neidan the goal is to AVOID lucid dreaming and astral projection.

And immortals don't sleep at all.

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I have done darkness trainings. Also have done training living in forest outside. I have been training for some years, with modern unreal living put like more of a sideline, an extra little thing. I do recognize that I did something "unusual" but every day makes sense to me perfectly, and I do not feel like any trade has been made or that I am odd or anything like that. Really, it's the opposite.

 

I'm trying to write about it in this forum. Very interesting to see the subjects people are writing about online.

Now, i know the purpose of my coming into this thread is fulfilled :)  It was to find you, so that i can follow your writings and learn from you. I was not aware that you are a valuable member here.  Thanks for sharing. I see 3 pages worth of postings from you, when i search. Which thread would be a good place to start, if  i want to learn more about you and your experiences/knowledge ?

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