evil has no inherent root

[iain]

From a extreemly close looking chicken relative

 

The Frog perhaps with its indisputably brave attempts at flight?

Edited November 11, 2014 by iain

[iain]

The egg came first; brahmāṇḍa.

Closely followed by a root ...

Edited November 11, 2014 by iain

[Marblehead]

If you do not see a similarity between math (मथ्), good and evil; keep studying, there is geometry in everything; Including the Tao.

 

During my math studies I fail when we got to imaginary numbers. I know, this concept is important but it didn't work in my mind. I will never be a rocket scientist.

 

But I can balance my checkbook (Yes, I still, on occasion, use paper checks.) and that is more important to me than becoming a rocket scientist.

 

And yes, I do see a similarity between good/evil and real numbers. The numbers in black are good and those in red are evil.

[Marblehead]

I was going to post this ...

 

...

 

But then, as a responsible adult; I thought better of it ...

Yes, good thing you had second thoughts.

[steve]

Is there anything with an inherent root?

 

I would say that good is rooted in the unchangeable source, the fundamental nature.

Evil is rooted in ignorance of that nature.

[soaring crane]

Yes, good thing you had second thoughts.

 

I only had one thought.

[iain]

I only had one thought.

Sorry about that soaring crane.

[soaring crane]

Sorry about that soaring crane.

 

haha no worries

[z00se]

Good is rooted in the unchangeable heavens, evil is rooted unchangeably in nature in the earth. Both have equally strong roots. Life is a mixture of heavenly life force and earthly physical manifestation and so as people we have both roots within us. Collectively both roots and life is Tao.

[3bob]

evil is not rooted in nature or the earth but in hell if the term root is used, and is that which would consume all with malice and fear, then when everything was consumed it would consume itself - thus no lasting root to that or having anything to do with Tao.

Edited November 11, 2014 by 3bob

[soaring crane]

evil is not rooted in nature or the earth but in hell if the term root is used, and is that which would consume all with malice and fear, then when everything was consumed it would consume itself - thus no lasting root to that or having anything to do with Tao.

 

I don't follow. The term "root" is synonymous with "hell"?

[3bob]

no, the term is not synonymous with hell. It can be used in several ways; here it being used like a state and direction of working with or against Tao.

[z00se]

But Tao includes hell. Further, just as hell would consume its self on its own, so would heaven in the opposite way. The two poles need each other.

[Marblehead]

But Tao includes hell. Further, just as hell would consume its self on its own, so would heaven in the opposite way. The two poles need each other.

This is not true in the state of non-dualism.

[iain]

But Tao includes hell. Further, just as hell would consume its self on its own, so would heaven in the opposite way. The two poles need each other.

I thought Heavens in the Tao was the celestial sphere, the sky.

 

I am struggling to equate the Christian notion of Heaven and Hell; to the Light and Dark side of the mountain, please forgive me my ignorance.

Edited November 12, 2014 by iain

[Bud Jetsun]

Well, I liked your post except for this statement.

 

There is much more to life than that. And more complex as well.

 

I have seen you type that there is more than Love and Fear type thoughts my friend.

 

Would you like assistance in concluding this delusion?

[Marblehead]

I have seen you type that there is more than Love and Fear type thoughts my friend. Would you like assistance in concluding this delusion?

I had to go back to see what I was speaking to. Here is your statement:

 

All human thought origins are from Love or fear.

 

My first problem with the statement is that "love" and "fear" are presented as being primal opposites, dualities. Dualistically, in my mind, it is love/hate and fear/confidence.

 

These are emotions not necessarily based in rational thought. Sure, one could say that these emotions are dominant when we are an infant prior to having the ability of rational thought but I can't see where they remain dominate after we acquire rational thought.

 

Rational thought can release us from the chains of love and fear. Allowing us to mature beyond the state of an infant.

[Stosh]

The roots of good and evil- which are concepts only- are the individual needs of people vs the collective need of the group which are sometimes counterpoised.

And no, that's not saying- that the needs of individuals are one thing and the needs of the group are another, because the needs of the individual may be answered best by being in line with that of the group.

One needs to consider critically what one thinks evil or good IS first.

Clearly its not an object, or physical property and clearly its subject to opinion or perspective.

[3bob]

The Reality of lifeforce (or the marcro/micro cosmically and pervasive good) is not in any way limited to individual or group driven intellectual ruminations along the lines of "concepts" or debatable opinions.

Edited November 15, 2014 by 3bob

[Brian]

I thought Heavens in the Tao was the celestial sphere, the sky.

 

I am struggling to equate the Christian notion of Heaven and Hell; to the Light and Dark side of the mountain, please forgive me my ignorance.

If you look beyond the notion of marble palaces in the clouds and pits of fire which were layered on later, you'll find the biblical "heaven" and "hell" to be entering the Light of God and being completely outside that Light, respectively -- and that it is a choice.

[iain]

If you look beyond the notion of marble palaces in the clouds and pits of fire which were layered on later, you'll find the biblical "heaven" and "hell" to be entering the Light of God and being completely outside that Light, respectively -- and that it is a choice.

 

I heard an interesting explanation of how Dante's "vision" of hell was adopted by the mass consensuses as being Hell; of course embellished by the imaginations of stone masons and wood carvers over the years; So I do hear what you are saying Brian. I tend to be rather flippant about the belief systems of my home country though, due to a natural disdain for both the way I have been treated there, and for the apparent state of the "community" and its position in world affairs; which is arguably proof of the failure of the belief systems of dharma. Please forgive me, I mean no offence.

The belief and educational systems are in a serious need of a clean out; Including the current educational structure which is an even worse indoctrination than that of a sleepy country village Sunday school. To my mind belief, study's and science are quite inseparable; always have been always will be. It has become ridiculous from every angle and I have personally suffered rather the brunt of that.

 

Not to mention the worlds ecology; the hedgerows would bustles if there were any left, for a spring clean for the may queen ...

 

Bhakti is a fantastic path most admirable indeed; to truly know and understand ones place before God; I respect that fully.

Edited November 15, 2014 by iain

[iain]

I would like to know who decided upon the name "Hellenistic" for the period around the start of Christianity; that baffles me ...
Is this reference to a Hell or to Helen, or both? A curious etymology.

Or simply ancient Greece?

Interesting conflict going on in the adjoining area between Mesopotamia and Egypt at that time; which seem to be in rinse and repeat mode at the moment.

Edited November 15, 2014 by iain

[Brian]

 

I heard an interesting explanation of how Dante's "vision" of hell was adopted by the mass consensuses as being Hell; of course embellished by the imaginations of stone masons and wood carvers over the years; So I do hear what you are saying Brian. I tend to be rather flippant about the belief systems of my home country though, due to a natural disdain for both the way I have been treated there, and for the apparent state of the "community" and its position in world affairs; which is arguably proof of the failure of the belief systems of dharma. Please forgive me, I mean no offence.

The belief and educational systems are in a serious need of a clean out; Including the current educational structure which is an even worse indoctrination than that of a sleepy country village Sunday school. To my mind belief, study's and science are quite inseparable; always have been always will be. It has become ridiculous from every angle and I have personally suffered rather the brunt of that.

 

Not to mention the worlds ecology; the hedgerows would bustles if there were any left, for a spring clean for the may queen ...

 

Bhakti is a fantastic path most admirable indeed; to truly know and understand ones place before God; I respect that fully.

LOL

 

No offense taken -- perhaps because I agree with you.

 

I am not a Christian, merely a student of many subjects, each of which shapes my essence and my beliefs daily. As such, I would likely be considered rather heretical by most religious followers of all traditions (including, but not limited to "Christianity" and "Science").

 

One of the things which draws me to TTB is the sense that I am not alone in this regard...

[Brian]

I would like to know who decided upon the name "Hellenistic" for the period around the start of Christianity; that baffles me ...

Is this reference to a Hell or to Helen, or both? A curious etymology.

 

Or simply ancient Greece?

 

Interesting conflict going on in the adjoining area between Mesopotamia and Egypt at that time; which seem to be in rinse and repeat mode at the moment.

 

 

 

Simply ancient Greece.

 

Mark Twain once said that history doesn't repeat itself but it rhymes...

[Bud Jetsun]

I had to go back to see what I was speaking to. Here is your statement:

 

All human thought origins are from Love or fear.

 

My first problem with the statement is that "love" and "fear" are presented as being primal opposites, dualities. Dualistically, in my mind, it is love/hate and fear/confidence.

 

These are emotions not necessarily based in rational thought. Sure, one could say that these emotions are dominant when we are an infant prior to having the ability of rational thought but I can't see where they remain dominate after we acquire rational thought.

 

Rational thought can release us from the chains of love and fear. Allowing us to mature beyond the state of an infant.

Hate is fearing through ignorance.

If one concluded fearing, one would also have concluded the illusion of hating.