If "God" exists, has he always created?

[dawei]

I meant that in most translations of Taoist material, they usually give the impression that Tao is One, or the primal energy. But that is open to translation and interpretation.

 

I have concentrated a lot over they years on the ancient cosmologies, see:

 

Cosmology in Ancient Chinese Text

 

IMO, The earlier the text the less Dao is seen as the One.... and sometimes not even mentioned

 

I have never thought of Dao (even in past ideas) as the primal energy.

 

I like the picture of the Huainanzi passage, my translation:

 

Prior to the Opening of the Universe

and pouring down of all life forms

This is called the Primal Illumination.

Dao arose/awoke out of this boundless void.

The boundless void gave rise to the cosmos;

The cosmos gave rise to [Primal] Qi.

[Primal] Qi spread as a shoreline.

That which was clear and bright formed into Heaven;

That which was heavy and impure formed into Earth.

It is easy for that which is clear and bright to uniformly gather [as the sky]

But difficult for the heavy and impure to solidify [as earth and matter].

Therefore Heaven was completed first, and Earth afterwards.

The coiling essences of Heaven and Earth formed into Yin Yang.

The uniformly gathering essences of Yin Yang gave rise to the four seasons.

The disseminating essences of the four seasons created they ten thousand things.

 

 

Tao the Origin:

 

At the beginning of eternal nonexistence,

Totally the same as the Great Void;

Vacuous and the same, it was the One;

 

 

 

When you say changing elements, do you mean alternating phases of Yin and Yang? (I know you've said that was a previous belief)....and ....Is another way to describe how you see Tao a bit like a star? (Hydrogen fusing into Helium, resulting in radiation, the light ((radiation)) being you're Tao, like a side effect of gravity)

 

That comparison sprang to mind, and sounds intriguing. Or maybe I'm just over thinking at 4am

 

Not thinking of Yin and Yang... because this is straddling the order of existence before Yin/Yang.

 

Non-existence >> Existence

 

Wu >> Yu

 

If Dao is present in both 'phases', then it is dormant potential energy, then changing to the kinetic manifest 'phase'.

 

I held to that idea for a long time... but I found the the cosmologies and my experience did not agree in the end...

[Silent Answers]

 

I have concentrated a lot over they years on the ancient cosmologies, see:

 

Cosmology in Ancient Chinese Text

 

IMO, The earlier the text the less Dao is seen as the One.... and sometimes not even mentioned

 

I have never thought of Dao (even in past ideas) as the primal energy.

 

I like the picture of the Huainanzi passage, my translation:

 

Prior to the Opening of the Universe

and pouring down of all life forms

This is called the Primal Illumination.

Dao arose/awoke out of this boundless void.

The boundless void gave rise to the cosmos;

The cosmos gave rise to [Primal] Qi.

[Primal] Qi spread as a shoreline.

That which was clear and bright formed into Heaven;

That which was heavy and impure formed into Earth.

It is easy for that which is clear and bright to uniformly gather [as the sky]

But difficult for the heavy and impure to solidify [as earth and matter].

Therefore Heaven was completed first, and Earth afterwards.

The coiling essences of Heaven and Earth formed into Yin Yang.

The uniformly gathering essences of Yin Yang gave rise to the four seasons.

The disseminating essences of the four seasons created they ten thousand things.

 

 

Tao the Origin:

 

At the beginning of eternal nonexistence,

Totally the same as the Great Void;

Vacuous and the same, it was the One;

 

 

 

 

Not thinking of Yin and Yang... because this is straddling the order of existence before Yin/Yang.

 

Non-existence >> Existence

 

Wu >> Yu

 

If Dao is present in both 'phases', then it is dormant potential energy, then changing to the kinetic manifest 'phase'.

 

I held to that idea for a long time... but I found the the cosmologies and my experience did not agree in the end...

First of all, thanks for the detailed replies. Secondly, I'll consider myself schooled. That does sound very appealing... But then at the same time I wonder is it too good to be true. Then again, I'd expect nothing less than perfect design from the cosmos, in which everything has a purpose.

[Perceiver]

Gerard:

 

Maybe we will never know if forms were created at some point or always have been, but the question is still damn interesting wouldn't you say?

 

I don't know.. I somehow feel there is a rational answer out there - waiting to be discovered. And I think discovering it may be a great step forward in understanding reality and its cause, which I suspect may not be a cause.

[3bob]

Gerard:

 

Maybe we will never know if forms were created at some point or always have been, but the question is still damn interesting wouldn't you say?

 

I don't know.. I somehow feel there is a rational answer out there - waiting to be discovered. And I think discovering it may be a great step forward in understanding reality and its cause, which I suspect may not be a cause.

 

I'd say the answer won't be discovered in thought, although it will be discovered...

Edited August 30, 2014 by 3bob

[thelerner]

If "God" exists, has he always created?

 

Definitely Yes. Ever since he was a young toddler sitting in his playpen, he'd create and create and create. He'd never stop, it was a real passion for him.

 

Hopefully that puts the that to rest.

Next question, please.

 

 

Michael 'there is no spoon, its a spork' Thelerner

Edited August 30, 2014 by thelerner

[Protector]

Man, this thread is starting to make my atheism go into overdrive

[3bob]

I'd say being a nut about God or being an anti-nut about God when dealing with others are both nuts.

 

(nut=as in trying to force your pov)

Edited August 31, 2014 by 3bob

[GrandmasterP]

When I was nursing I never ever met an atheist hospice ( palliative 'terminal care') patient.

There is solace and comfort to be found in religion, hence its enduring popularity.

Edited August 31, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Perceiver]

I should probably add that I am and have always been an atheist myself. There's no religious angle to my question. I believe in facts and reason, and the most scientifically validated answer we've got is still the Big Bang, evolution and patterns arising out of seemingly non-planned randomness.

 

But that still leaves a couple of questions: What came before the big bang, how did something arise out of seemingly nothing, and if there was something, how could something always have been, and has this something always been physical forms?

 

It's the question that just won't die. Except that we're going to produce the final answer in this thread of course. Ahem .

[GrandmasterP]

"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."

 

 

(Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies)

Edited August 31, 2014 by GrandmasterP