depersonalization

[Horus]

i've read a couple threads on this site of how a practitioner has been suddenly overcome with symptoms of depersonalization stemming from a meditative/spiritual practice.

upon a closer examination of myself and my shortcomings i've seen that i also have been suffering from symptoms commonly attributed to depersonalizaton.

 

my question is. is a form of 'depersonalization' the aim of many spiritual/meditative practices?

 

it seems that there are those who have an adverse reaction to the sudden distancing between themselves/'emotions' and their surroundings, then there are those who openly welcome the effects of the 'depersonalization'.

 

i'm just curious to know what the position of others on this topic.

 

because as of late, i'm content, but i realize how sad i would normally feel- i feel very detached from many things around me. i've watched in slow motion as my personality has been disintegrating along with my relationship with my family, girlfriend and close friends. yesterday my girlfriend deemed our relationship to be too unhealthy to continue. a part of me was very upset but it's like it was frozen somewhere deep within me, i couldn't allow emotions to surface that i wanted. it constantly feels like this cold logic is present in my mind, sometimes it borders on sadness but it is more of a loneliness/emptiness i've never known until recent months. i don't feel like me. and i know that's probably due to egoistic wants, but having that degree of emotional stability amongst other things is a recipe for cognitive dissonance within this american society.

 

i just lost my best friend i've ever had. i'm sad, but i feel so far away from everything.

 

it's like i'm losing everything that made me, me.

 

feel free to move or delete this.

You are loved.

 

Know that to be true beyond everything else.

 

We don't know what spiritual/meditation work you are doing if you'd care to elaborate.

 

Beyond your spiritual work - much work is being done for you right now on a cosmic level. We are poised on the brink of entering the new earth grid. Go and read Karen Bishop's blog, she expresses these ascension symptoms beautifully.

 

You are feeling de-personalised because your whole psyche and energetic framework has been cleansed, rewired, and is about to be re-rooted into a new grid - an multidimensional earth grid.

 

That is not to dispel your personal life experiences - that is the true playing field upon which you are unfolding those adjustments.

 

Yes, you are right - the time to give up is now. But, what you are giving up is the old self, allowing for the new to restore itself.

 

Things will get better soon, I promise.

 

You are loved

[Horus]

life is more beautiful to me now, although with an overpowering observer perspective. the whole muted emotions thing, my desire/passion is now a husk, Dreams are gone and i don't dream at night.

 

i'm not sure if we are supposed to enjoy life here anymore

It's temporary - you are expressing exactly what it feels like for an energetic sensitive to transit through the 2010-14 ascension process.

 

We've lifted the earth up from the 3rd dimension to the 5th and are now rooting in the new grid.

 

What you are describing is end times symptomology.

 

Focus on what you love and desire.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

God is all things.

 

Therefore he/she/it is both/neither Personal and/nor Impersonal.

 

I don't feel like me. and i know that's probably due to egoistic wants, but having that degree of emotional stability amongst other things is a recipe for cognitive dissonance within this american society.

 

I cured my cognitive dissonance.

 

I couldn't cure my wife's.

 

I tried.

 

No matter.

 

Keep on keepin' on.

 

Dat'z all.

 

XXX

...

Edited April 29, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[Horus]

Alkalise your diet I'm feeling will be a big help right now.

 

You are being pounded with heavenly light while your underbelly has been ripped up due to the grief of the loss.

 

"taking up contemplative prayer and a better attitude" - Beautiful - that's great. But do things to support. Get plenty of sleep, go roll around in/on nature, eat fresh veges and fruit, get some rescue remedy drops, talk it out.

[idiot_stimpy]

stimpy don't ever call me cypher again.

 

Can you remind me where I called you cypher?

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

I'm sure none 'ave herd of cypher.

...

Edited April 29, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[amoyaan]

I've read James Swartz talking about depersonalisation in a few of the satsangs on his website.

 

Dunno if this might be of help. (from http://www.shiningworld.com/top/images/stories/newSatsangs/November_2011/Between_the_Devil_and_the_Deep_Blue_Sea.pdf)

 

"You cannot engage because you know there is nothing there. It is a kind of existential limbo. The problem is not that the world is

empty, because it isn’t. The problem is that you can’t see that you are full.You are unable to turn your attention away from the body and mind and the world and look at the one who knows that the world is a dream. When you do this, you see that the emptiness is actually a fullness, that everything is meaningful and beautiful and that there is no need to connect with it because it is already connected to you."

[amoyaan]

I can relate to this actually because I felt the same thing happening to me. You realise that nothing is 'solid', nothing lasts, nothing has any innate meaning other than the meaning we ascribe to it. The world isn't what we imagined it to be for all those years and "I" am not what I imagined myself to be. I think maybe depersonalisation is the realisation that there is no person as such...it's a construct, a dream character like whoever we happen to dream ourselves to be at night.

 

Also the moment we chase after something in the world and attain it is the moment we lose it because of the ever-changing nature of the dream. I got very depressed and demotivated over this. I had similar symptoms to you, Sunchild. Friendships slipped away and my emotions evened out so much I didn't experience great elation about anything anymore but neither did the little things (or even at times fairly 'big' things) bother me.

 

I like the teachings of vedanta though because they help us see that the emptiness is not the final stage, that the emptiness is actually a fullness. James Swartz says that after all this realisation stuff, it's important to give the mind something to do -- the mind is goal-oriented so it helps to still do things we enjoy...not because we seek to gain something from it, but just to give the little dream self some projects to keep it happy and ticking over Whatever floats our boat, as they say. I write. And I got a puppy. Animals rock.

[sunchild]

It's temporary - you are expressing exactly what it feels like for an energetic sensitive to transit through the 2010-14 ascension process.

 

We've lifted the earth up from the 3rd dimension to the 5th and are now rooting in the new grid.

 

What you are describing is end times symptomology.

 

Focus on what you love and desire.

i don't believe you.

 

so i should so narrowly focus on something that i selfishly desire, to the point where 'the bigger picture' becomes obscured and all that i can see is exploding pixie sticks and unicorns? i guess that's what most people are doing.

 

 

You are loved.

 

Know that to be true beyond everything else.

 

We don't know what spiritual/meditation work you are doing if you'd care to elaborate.

 

Beyond your spiritual work - much work is being done for you right now on a cosmic level. We are poised on the brink of entering the new earth grid. Go and read Karen Bishop's blog, she expresses these ascension symptoms beautifully.

 

You are feeling de-personalised because your whole psyche and energetic framework has been cleansed, rewired, and is about to be re-rooted into a new grid - an multidimensional earth grid.

 

That is not to dispel your personal life experiences - that is the true playing field upon which you are unfolding those adjustments.

 

Yes, you are right - the time to give up is now. But, what you are giving up is the old self, allowing for the new to restore itself.

 

Things will get better soon, I promise.

 

You are loved

or it could have nothing to do with that.

 

"you are loved"- i believe you are simply projecting onto me, it is all so pointless.. so many people speaking and yet there is rarely, if ever, a genuine conversation taking place

 

As I understand it through the senses everything is basically "as it is" and thus perfect.

 

Then comes the thinking mind after milliseconds and judges the experience as good or bad. The practice is then to zoom in on the senses and train oneself to see perfection.

i don't need someone attempting to coach me on how to be a more non-functional member of society, i am quite capable of the feat myself.

 

 

Can you remind me where I called you cypher?

when i created a thread about how my writing was affecting my daily life as if i was 'scripting' it. i began to see the depth of this 'illusion' and i quite desperately wanted to return to my past self/mainly my world views and 'personality' of past.

 

i took your comment personally, my mistake. but i would rather you not assault my character with word/thoughtforms bearing such negative connotations, seeing as i do not do so unto you.

Edited April 29, 2014 by sunchild

[sunchild]

I can relate to this actually because I felt the same thing happening to me. You realise that nothing is 'solid', nothing lasts, nothing has any innate meaning other than the meaning we ascribe to it. The world isn't what we imagined it to be for all those years and "I" am not what I imagined myself to be. I think maybe depersonalisation is the realisation that there is no person as such...it's a construct, a dream character like whoever we happen to dream ourselves to be at night.

 

Also the moment we chase after something in the world and attain it is the moment we lose it because of the ever-changing nature of the dream. I got very depressed and demotivated over this. I had similar symptoms to you, Sunchild. Friendships slipped away and my emotions evened out so much I didn't experience great elation about anything anymore but neither did the little things (or even at times fairly 'big' things) bother me.

 

I like the teachings of vedanta though because they help us see that the emptiness is not the final stage, that the emptiness is actually a fullness. James Swartz says that after all this realisation stuff, it's important to give the mind something to do -- the mind is goal-oriented so it helps to still do things we enjoy...not because we seek to gain something from it, but just to give the little dream self some projects to keep it happy and ticking over Whatever floats our boat, as they say. I write. And I got a puppy. Animals rock.

dogs love me.

i don't really care about many things i used to do. it is all so trivial/inconsequential now.

i like to write, but i've had no motivation for months- the most writing i do is on here seeking advice/attention for my latest spiritual/mental crisis.

so the 'demotivation' i can relate to, but as of now the 'depression' has taken an exit in favor of indifference. life has become highly impersonal and empty.

 

i don't really care what floats my boat anymore, because it's like i don't have one anyway.

[Jetsun]

Depersonalization and spiritually losing yourself are two very different things, depersonalization is a form of dissociation where you become less and less in touch with your body and genuine feelings, the only correlation can be if your suffering gets so bad that you let go and in that you become open to what you really are.

[sunchild]

i don't think "fun"/"happiness" is something to be had/revel in, in this world. i don't think we are here for any of that. this world feels more like hell everyday, especially with all the new technology.

if most of the people here are only achieving peace of mind/happiness through methods of detaching from the world around us, what does that say about the world. perpetual pain, suffering, war and loss...

 

 

 

 

the thing i find most interesting about many people who've had a spiritual experience, or reached a certain level of attainment- is that their main focus in life afterwards is almost purely spiritual. it's like they can't return

Edited April 29, 2014 by sunchild

[sunchild]

Depersonalization and spiritually losing yourself are two very different things, depersonalization is a form of dissociation where you become less and less in touch with your body and genuine feelings, the only correlation can be if your suffering gets so bad that you let go and in that you become open to what you really are.

that's most likely what happened.

[liminal_luke]

i don't think "fun"/"happiness" is something to be had/revel in, in this world.

 

When my partner was in the height of his depression he eschewed the whole idea of enjoying life. The idea that happiness is for shallow fools is common among those with chronic mood difficulties.

 

I don´t think happiness--or even fun--is antithetical to spiritual development. You can be enlightened and still have a blast in life. In fact, I´d say spiritual development expands a seekers ability to feel good exponentially. Gurus have a good time, they just do it without a "self."

 

Liminal

[sunchild]

When my partner was in the height of his depression he eschewed the whole idea of enjoying life. The idea that happiness is for shallow fools is common among those with chronic mood difficulties.

 

I don´t think happiness--or even fun--is antithetical to spiritual development. You can be enlightened and still have a blast in life. In fact, I´d say spiritual development expands a seekers ability to feel good exponentially. Gurus have a good time, they just do it without a "self."

 

Liminal

"among those suffering chronic mood difficulties".. you mean like everyone?

 

feeling good "exponentially" doesn't seem too realistic or balanced.

 

they just do it without "self"... doesn't sound humanly possible.

 

"gurus have a good time"... could you specify please? i haven't heard of gurus doing much else but trying to "teach" others to erase there sense of self/personality to the point of most of them becoming "exponentially" happy subservient slaves of a hive mind variety that only seem to be concerned with "enlightening" others as they are and "healing" others with varying techniques- they like to keep it all very "positive".

[Rara]

i don't think "fun"/"happiness" is something to be had/revel in, in this world. i don't think we are here for any of that. this world feels more like hell everyday, especially with all the new technology.

if most of the people here are only achieving peace of mind/happiness through methods of detaching from the world around us, what does that say about the world. perpetual pain, suffering, war and loss...

 

 

 

 

the thing i find most interesting about many people who've had a spiritual experience, or reached a certain level of attainment- is that their main focus in life afterwards is almost purely spiritual. it's like they can't return

At this point I must reiterate something that I posted to another member a few days ago.

 

What you have said here is your choice. You have chosen to believe this...this is why you are so defiant to accept another philosophy.

 

All you have to do is invert your belief. I make it sound easy...and it so isn't but once you do it, you realise it IS easy.

 

But in your current state of mind, you can't and won't be helped. Not by any of us, but yourself. Only YOU have the power to overcome this mindset...once you have, you can pick the advice you feel works for you.

[Rara]

PS forget the guru and spiritual talk going on here. It's all generalisation and isn't really tackling the actual underlying issue here.

[GrandmasterP]

i don't think "fun"/"happiness" is something to be had/revel in, in this world. i don't think we are here for any of that. this world feels more like hell everyday, especially with all the new technology.

if most of the people here are only achieving peace of mind/happiness through methods of detaching from the world around us, what does that say about the world. perpetual pain, suffering, war and loss...

 

 

 

 

the thing i find most interesting about many people who've had a spiritual experience, or reached a certain level of attainment- is that their main focus in life afterwards is almost purely spiritual. it's like they can't return

You've met many?

I'm 62 and have maybe met two transcendently spiritual people since I started looking back in my late teens.

One of those is dead but when he was alive he was a car nut, kept up to date with world events and loved chilling out with people.

A super excellent stand up comedian too he was a truly funny guy.

The other guy who is the short side of his ninth decade, still with us and is a Bodhisatva is a keen organic gardener, expert and busy calligrapher who also loves being around people shooting the breeze.

Neither of those guys made or make a big deal about 'spirituality'.

There's Marblehead on here as well but I've never met him, he's a Roshi but would never admit to it.

Factoring out the 'playing mommy for money' shysters, those twonks who bang on about how 'spiritual' they are tend generally to be either narcissists, depressives or a combination of those two.

Edited April 30, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[sunchild]

At this point I must reiterate something that I posted to another member a few days ago.

 

What you have said here is your choice. You have chosen to believe this...this is why you are so defiant to accept another philosophy.

 

All you have to do is invert your belief. I make it sound easy...and it so isn't but once you do it, you realise it IS easy.

 

But in your current state of mind, you can't and won't be helped. Not by any of us, but yourself. Only YOU have the power to overcome this mindset...once you have, you can pick the advice you feel works for you.

well said.

 

it just becomes quite tiring, the 'believing', the 'living'.

 

i don't particularly want to die, but i haven't a reason to live anymore.

i think i engage in self destructive acts around these times because it temporarily relieves me of the stress of living a meaningless existence, as it draws my attention/focus elsewhere, and that it brings me that much closer to death. i used to think suicide was something that could be "worked up to"- now, i think it just happens once you've had enough.

 

honestly, i don't want to live anymore. losing my last friend shot my optimism.

 

death murder suicide, it's all the same right. same source right. all is one right. all going to the same place right.

[Rara]

well said.

 

it just becomes quite tiring, the 'believing', the 'living'.

 

i don't particularly want to die, but i haven't a reason to live anymore.

i think i engage in self destructive acts around these times because it temporarily relieves me of the stress of living a meaningless existence, as it draws my attention/focus elsewhere, and that it brings me that much closer to death. i used to think suicide was something that could be "worked up to"- now, i think it just happens once you've had enough.

 

honestly, i don't want to live anymore. losing my last friend shot my optimism.

 

death murder suicide, it's all the same right. same source right. all is one right. all going to the same place right.

 

Oh I do not doubt a word you said in the first two sentences. I would know, I've been there buddy. I'm not anymore...and I would say I've only been clean of these thoughts for 2 years...ok maybe less. They kept creeping back and I've had to fight those demons time and time again. But gradually, they fade away...and you are able to make peace with the demons. Then they are no longer demons. And then you realise how silly and meaningless it all was.

 

But I use the word meaningless in the most positive way here. Evidently, it's your search for meaning that has brought you into this state of mind. Finding meaning is not the Tao...the Tao is greater than our puny little minds. That's the beauty in it.

 

I cannot comment on much else you've written after the first two sentences though. Especially your last line - because in my infinite wisdom and yours, neither of us will ever know the answer to that. So why is it even relevant?

 

Grandmaster P listed some great examples of some healthy souls around here, and Marblehead on this forum, I cannot speak any higher of the guy. He's a useful dude and really helps people just see things as they are.

 

If this isn't working for you though, I can only suggest get someone to talk to close to home. Counselling didn't fix me, but it was a great foundation. Those guys are never given the credit they deserve.

 

I just ask that you open your mind here.

[Rara]

PS, if you don't mind, how old are you?

[Marblehead]

Hi Sunchild,

 

This thread was brought to my attention by someone with honest concerns for you. I had to read the entire thread so that I would know the cause of where the discussion is at the present moment.

 

You know what is interesting? Reading the story (your posts as well as the posts from all others), caused me to reflect on Albert Camus' life. A great writer - given credit for that. A great philosopher - not given fair credit for that.

 

At one point in time in his life he was exactly where you were in your opening post. His conclusion: "Life is absurd!" No point in human life. Nothing matters.

 

But, upon reflection he came to the realization that even though life is absurd it is still very much worth living. Very much worth having the experiences of interacting with as much as the rest of creation as possible.

 

 

So you did, with intent, get to the state of being that you are currently in. Yes, I will repeat that. You did it with intent. You wanted to depersonalize your life. Feels shitty, doesn't it?

 

Being a writer has nothing to do with your present moment so we need not talk about that.

 

The (un)spiritual path you followed to get to where you are, I would say, is fucked up. It is my very strong opinion that whenever we deny our emotions we are fucking up. We should Never, Ever, EVER try depersonalizing our life!

 

Chuang Tzu was a very emotional guy. One can tell that just from his writings. No need to have known the man. He loved. He danced. He got lost fishing on the bank of the river and he didn't even have any bait on his hook.

 

I am trying very hard to not pass any judgements here in what I am saying because I don't have enough of "your story" to be able to do that. But what I will say is that if the path you followed has brought you only hardship then you were/are on the wrong path for you (it may be a good path of others).

 

I offer no other advice at the moment beyond what I have already presented.

 

(Song playing here at the moment is, "Don't You Need Somebody to Love?")

 

We all need somebody to love even if it just ourself.

 

Please take the time to look at the causes of the events that brought you where you are now. Then, value judgement. Good or bad?

 

Be well and take care.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Many people who've had a spiritual experience, or reached a certain level of attainment- is that their main focus in life afterwards is almost purely spiritual. it's like they can't return.

 

Not at all true.

 

"among those suffering chronic mood difficulties".. you mean like everyone?

 

feeling good "exponentially" doesn't seem too realistic or balanced.

 

they just do it without "self"... doesn't sound humanly possible.

 

"gurus have a good time"... could you specify please? i haven't heard of gurus doing much else but trying to "teach" others to erase there sense of self/personality to the point of most of them becoming "exponentially" happy subservient slaves of a hive mind variety that only seem to be concerned with "enlightening" others as they are and "healing" others with varying techniques- they like to keep it all very "positive".

 

Not everyone suffers from a "chronic mood difficulty."

 

I don't.

 

Having fun without "self" is certainly possible.

 

I prove it all the time.

 

"Gurus have a good time"... could you specify please?

 

No.

 

Sorry, itz personal.

...

Edited April 30, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

They kept creeping back and I've had to fight those demons time and time again. But gradually, they fade away...and you are able to make peace with the demons. Then they are no longer demons. And then you realise how silly and meaningless it all was.

 

Finding meaning is not the Tao...the Tao is greater than our puny little minds. That's the beauty in it.

 

Rara!

 

For Ra Ra.

 

He said it all.

...

[Rara]

...

 

 

Rara!

 

For Ra Ra.

 

He said it all.

...

Must have been subconscious. There's a more stupid conscious reason for the name