Sexual Energy

[VeeCee]

And VeeCee, that's the thing. When I'm talking about "energy" I'm talking about something really specific.

 

I understand that. And what I was referring to was more a psychological animae/animus thing. It's apples and oranges. Sorry for being confused/ing.

 

V.

[rain]

..........

Edited April 18, 2008 by rain

[xenolith]

No, not gone witch. Merely more contemplative than expressive now. Thank you for many things. Contemplation will give way to expression. I hope you and others will share your experience then.

[witch]

Oh for goodness sakes--we aren't saying you are wrong (at least about men) just awfully solemn! Here, I found this for you, took me long enough. Seems full of arcane jargon! The pertinent part is in the middle of the text, on women

 

The Shadow of the Dalai Lama

 

And may I point out it says exactly what I've been saying all along has been my experience!

 

Except I usually ejaculate it instead of sending it downstairs again.

[witch]

To further go into my own peculiar way of looking at things, I like this guy

 

Kooky goofy taoist sex guy

 

Except I don't agree with the non-ejaculation thing--two weeks is enough! And he's all about the CCO sex as being the ultimate and I honestly think that's a guy thing, and sophisticated wankery and that's why all the tantric goddesses are so damn mad all the time!

 

My pet theory that I keep longwindedly explaining to anyone who sits still--it's all about the 8. Sign of infinity, lovers' knot. Why the number 8 when there are five sex chakras? I think there are eight sex aspects. Base chakra generates the energy, crown chakra is an escape valve when too much energy builds up in the skull. But the general idea isn't a straight up and down thingie that you are talking about--that's a bad luck dragon. A good luck dragon has curves, like an 8. So base and crown, and then the man gives energy to the woman through the second chakra, woman gives it back going up through the heart (she sends seminal energy up) man gives back through the third eye, woman gives back forehead energy through the heart going down in a grounding way.

 

Saturn--base chakra

Mars--male second chakra

Venus--female second chakra

Moon--female fourth chakra

Sun-male fourth chakra

Eris--male sixth chakra

Pluto--female sixth chakra

Uranus--crown chakra

 

Eight planets, eight houses, in perfect balance. I guess that leaves the third and fifth chakras to the mutable planets. But they don't really fit.

 

I'll figure it out eventually!

[rain]

.....

Edited April 18, 2008 by rain

[witch]

Well I looked both up, the Tree of Life and that astrology link, and here's where my colossal ego is--they're both wrong. The sex planets are the planets ruling the cardinal and fixed signs. The cardinal signs send out energy and the fixed signs receive energy and transform them, except for the planet ruling the cardinal earth sign, Saturn, which generates the energy, and the fixed air sign (governing kundalini) ruler Uranus, which receives the energy and releases into the cosmos if too much.

 

Thanks for the offer, but I'm a witch so I'm all set in the tarot department!

 

I guess the point I'm trying to make in all of this is that sure, we all have all planets in our charts, and for example I could probably receive heart energy from a woman through the action of my Sun, but it would be unnatural and very hard work for me. Likewise, the starting point for energy is naturally a woman, the base chakra energy generation is VERY easy and natural for a woman who is eating right, in particular getting enough omega-3 fatty acids, and in good health with good PC muscle tone. So let's say a woman has, easily and naturally like breathing, a few dozen of these PC-muscle-flexing orgasms. That activity creates an intense, desperately strong need in the second chakra. This need elicits a very strong response in the matching male second chakra.

 

Now what should happen at this point, and generally doesn't, also I believe due to dietary imbalance, is that a man fully drained of his energy should then have an opening of the heart, a hunger. This Sun hunger, a needing for that fiercely loving female energy, easily elicits a rising up and outpouring of female sexual energy through the heart chakra. When a woman has emptied out all her energy in this way, she gains a hunger in the third eye for male energy. She needs the two horns of male sixth chakra energy intersecting and penetrating through her third eye back to her amygdalae (I think that's the goal). Et cetera!

 

And that's why I think it's faster to get the energy up and moving with two people than one person doing it on his own. They can, of course. I just think doing this sexually makes it a hundred times easier. Sort of the difference between a guy trying to masturbate thinking about doing laundry and paying bills or trying to masturbate watching really raunchy porn. The first guy, if he's horny enough, can do it. But why work that hard?

Edited October 2, 2007 by witch

[xenolith]

How is female spiritual evolution obtained?

[witch]

Hmm. I'm not sure that fits into my view of things. I think this sexual practice whether done with difficulty alone, or more easily with a partner will bring enlightenment to men and endarkenment to women, so there is a balance for both genders.

 

My main goal in my own personal practice is balance, not really evolution. That sexual practice brings a balance of male and female. But I think my closest belief to your idea of spiritual evolution is following the North Node of a person's natal chart. So it really doesn't have anything to do with cultivation or sex at all, except maybe coincidentally, depending on where the North Node falls. If a person focuses their energy on working on their North Node, then the rest of their chart falls into balance. Astrologers who believe in reincarnation do believe that this results in spiritual evolution, that the next life will be a step up. I'm personally agnostic about reincarnation and focus on this life. Life is just better when it's in balance, and I've found this practice bring that balance.

 

If you really want to follow the hard path to wisdom, that path is held by Saturn. However, unlike the North Node, following Saturn is the wrong path for a lot of people. But it will certainly make you deep!

 

Here's more on North Node/South Node stuff

 

Cafe Astrology

[xenolith]

Nirvana. That's what I'm talking about. Illumination. Enlightenment. Is there the female equivalent of the Great Straight Upward Path? If so, how is it accomplished? That's the question I'm asking.

 

Surely some female Bums seek this in Life. Please share your experience and insight.

[rain]

Nirvana. That's what I'm talking about. Illumination. Enlightenment. Is there the female equivalent of the Great Straight Upward Path? If so, how is it accomplished? That's the question I'm asking.

 

Surely some female Bums seek this in Life. Please share your experience and insight.

 

female ??? male?????

 

 

 

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa

[steve]

I think xenolith was wanting an explanation in the taoist language he is used to thinking in. I can't do that for him, can you? And of course he's familiar with the sensation of kundalini rising. I think he was particularly interested in a taoist explanation for why in women the heart chakra outpouring is more important than the crown chakra, the difference between the sexes.

 

I am in agreement with him about surprise at the lack of discussion about the crown chakra orgasm here. As far as I know, almost all the men here cultivate. Although personally I am pleased to find that the very sensible focus on the sixth chakra in men seems to be the consensus here!

 

Is there another board he can go to that is more Chia-focused?

I once went to a female sexuality/Daoism seminar hosted by Livia Kohn. She gave a really nice talk that emphasized the importance of the heart/middle dantian in the female, comparing it to the lower dantian to the male and so on and so forth but I couldn't summarize. She'd be a good resource, perhaps, for comparing the different paradigms.

[witch]

[xenolith]

Very good. Thank you. I've been formulating a hypothesis based on assimilation/integration of disparate information collected over the years on the nature and pathway of spiritual evolution for women. For this purpose, I'm obviously severely handicapped in not being female. 24 years of monogamy (since 17) has mostly helped in this pursuit, but has certainly provided for a small data set! mrs. x has been very informative and her comments have provided profound insights that are being echoed by these recent comments. She's asserted (paraphrasing) 'that women are heart centered and that men are brain centered'. There are definitely corroborating statements in Taoist and Buddhist texts. What this means in terms of the disparity of mechanics of Enlightenment between the sexes...i.e. the difference between the brain centered CCO that men (can) experience and the heart centered orgasms that women can experience is that which I'm very interested in sorting out. I very much understand the former, not so much the latter. Apparently Ovarian Kung Fu is not the mechanism, as is the male counterpart, SKF in the generating the brain centered CCO. So what is the mechanism of heart center orgasms? That's the real question.

 

I'll certainly share more as this hypothesis takes more clear form. Additional commentary from women would be most gracious of you to offer and very sincerely appreciated. I realize the deeply personal nature of the question and even more so the answer.

 

Namaste.

 

xeno

[witch]

My take on it is that there isn't really a "mechanism" to it. I don't think it comes naturally to men to push their energy up, it's natural for them to ejaculate. Women don't ejaculate, for the most part, so if a woman is having lots of vaginal orgasms the energy naturally builds and rises there. I'd say the only tricky thing is opening up and surrendering to it in the first place. It's overwhelming and initially can be rather frightening. In my case it is absolutely necessary to have a sex object. I've never had one of these without focusing, thinking of a man I am pouring my energy out to. I don't know if that's universal or not. Doesn't have to be a man I know, helps if the man seems to have an open heart.

[xenolith]

So what is the mechanism of heart center orgasms?

Call it a process then. Or whatever you want. witch, is it your assertion that vaginal orgasms are precursory to Enlightenment for women? Please understand the requirement for a distinction between Enlightenment and 'a really good time'. No offense, just thought that that was necessary to point out to any, maybe nobody, who may assist in this endeavor.

Edited October 3, 2007 by xenolith

[witch]

That's hard to say, then. First off, I will say I don't think vaginal orgasms are required to have this heart chakra outpouring ability. That's just the easy, natural way. I assume there is some sort of mechanism for women to push energy up, in a sort of masculine way, generating the energy simply by refraining from clitoral orgasm. I don't know.

 

Of course your question is not the techniques of developing this ability for heart outpourings, but whether a woman who can do this is enlightened. More specifically it would mean that I am enlightened, as I had six heart chakra orgasms just today (last one was shooting blanks). Tom Robbins wrote in a letter that I was halfway to enlightenment, but that was a few years ago. I'm not sure you would recognize him as an authority!

 

I feel quite ridiculous talking about this, but in my personal experience I believe these bodily sensations are merely reactions of the nervous system, and enlightenment would involve the long-term effect of experiencing them, not just the immediate sensation. I will say for certain my third eye has opened. I am also quite sure I had a CCO, and the aftermath of heart chakra orgasms is very different. I would say in my case it has made me more hot-tempered and wicked, rather than enlightened. In my own personal experience it has been an endarkenment, like Persephone being taken to the Underworld by Hades. I can see the very roots of myself, and all of my own wickedness. It's very good. It's a deep, dark thing.

[xenolith]

Not much time to discuss...important to point out that within SKF, third eye center is not accessible without traversing the crown center, something no-one on this Forum has made anything resembling a reasonable accounting of being able to do...leading me to believe that the lotta men who talk about activating their third eye centers are bullshitters...it's easy to image it, not so to do it. Have no idea with respect to women. Mind is open. Again, process commentary is solicited.

 

witch, your endarkenment comment is consistent with many of those disparate pieces of information that I referred to. Sadly. Meaning that I empathize with you and with women. There is a certain and strong sacrificial process related to the compassion that true women experience. To wit: Hypatia...my all time favorite, non-living, human being. She mated her heart and her brain...experiencing (female) Enlightenment perhaps. How sad that that was seen as grounds for her extermination by the society that she lived in. Would have Loved to Talk to Her. A righteous witch. You are too.

 

My turn for a ramble. Do good things.

 

Peace.

 

xeno

Edited October 3, 2007 by xenolith

[witch]

I don't think my third eye was opened by my own energy, I think it was opened by someone else's energy. Of course that could very well be imaginary, some kind of tulpa I created on my own, but it was outside of me, horned, and male. And the CCO I had was from that energy going up instead of back, because I was sitting up. I haven't wanted to talk about that because not only does it sound insane, it's the sort of thing not too long ago that got women into a world of trouble.

 

In any case, with the amount of energy I pour out every day, it stands to reason it is returned to me in some way. I think in the same way I can pop the cherry of men with open hearts, by the strength of my heart chakra outpouring, someone popped my sixth chakra--because it doesn't feel like an eye, it feels like a vagina. Although I do now have some of those "third eye" abilities, being able to see and understand things I didn't before.

[Fusion]

Edited October 3, 2007 by Fusion

[rain]

I’m of the view that what the first poster should be considering is balancing the downward flow of energy with the upward flow of energy.

 

-------------------------------------

 

it is written;....spiritual nature is the heaven hidden in man's head, and bodily life is the earth hidden in man's navel." Only through the integrated cultivation of the two, could one complete merit and cultivation, awaken to one's nature, "keep one's essence, collect one's vital breath, and concentrate one's spirit", and unify these three into one as the great elixir.

 

and that is of course "man" as in "human BEING".

Edited October 3, 2007 by rain

[Fusion]

[Taoist81]

Not much time to discuss...important to point out that within SKF, third eye center is not accessible without traversing the crown center, something no-one on this Forum has made anything resembling a reasonable accounting of being able to do...leading me to believe that the lotta men who talk about activating their third eye centers are bullshitters...it's easy to image it, not so to do it. Have no idea with respect to women. Mind is open. Again, process commentary is solicited.

 

witch, your endarkenment comment is consistent with many of those disparate pieces of information that I referred to. Sadly. Meaning that I empathize with you and with women. There is a certain and strong sacrificial process related to the compassion that true women experience. To wit: Hypatia...my all time favorite, non-living, human being. She mated her heart and her brain...experiencing (female) Enlightenment perhaps. How sad that that was seen as grounds for her extermination by the society that she lived in. Would have Loved to Talk to Her. A righteous witch. You are too.

 

My turn for a ramble. Do good things.

 

Peace.

 

xeno

 

Xeno, while not lodging any argument with your personal experience/study, such a generalization of "SKF" and "posters being bullshitters" is unfounded. To simply look at the various traditions one sees quite clearly that there is limited consensus on anything. However, in most traditions dealing with "chakras" one first opens the third eye or ajna then (if one is capable) one goes on to the crown. Certainly from a Taoist Alchemical perspective one can speak of various points along the "Orbit" or the Du and Ren meridians, though these do not directly compare to the Chakras of other traditions. If one speaks of the various "passes" of other Taoist texts, you do find descriptions of experiences similar to the one you have described, though again, one finds clear distinctions from "chakras". Again, this is not to question at all your personal journey nor the experiences you have had along it. However, you are in no position to call those who have claimed or inferred (note: this is coming from someone who has not and will not make such a claim whether or not it is so) "bullshitters". There are few if any texts or traditions to support your claim of a "one true route to opening the third eye", and considering the diversity of experience her, you can't know who has had what opened.

[rain]

Not much time to discuss...important to point out that within SKF, third eye center is not accessible without traversing the crown center, something no-one on this Forum has made anything resembling a reasonable accounting of being able to do...leading me to believe that the lotta men who talk about activating their third eye centers are bullshitters...it's easy to image it, not so to do it. Have no idea with respect to women. Mind is open. Again, process commentary is solicited.

 

---------------------------

 

 

I have given an explanation of exactly this in this forum.

Edited October 3, 2007 by rain

[xenolith]

A very fair comment Taoist81. I'd like to clarify something. Within the practice that I'm familiar, traditional Taoist internal alchemy utilizing the MCO, the crown center is encountered before the third eye center. My experience corroborates this. To be clear, my third eye center was unreachable prior to traversing the crown center and traversing the crown center wasn't possible until I learned how to avoid a CCO...they occur nearly spontaneously upon reaching the crown...very tricky to make it to the third eye via the MCO indeed.

 

Your comments illustrate an important point...tantric or kundalini or other methods may facilitate access to the third eye center BEFORE traversing the crown (as witch described in her post after my poorly defined post to which you've quite reasonably taken some objection to), IOW, via some path other than the MCO. I can see how what I wrote could be understood to be referring to ALL methods when what I meant to connote was through the specific method of the MCO.

 

I'm grateful for your very heuristic comments. Thank you. Hopefully other Bums will offer their experience with these other methods which facilitate activation of the third eye without traversing the crown. I'd be most interested in learning how it's done.

 

Peace.

 

xeno

 

 

 

 

rain, would you be so kind as to direct me to the location of the explanation to which you refer.

 

Thank you.

 

xeno

Edited October 3, 2007 by xenolith