deci belle Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) Harmonious Emptiness has started an important thread on this classic by Chang Po-tuan. It is an "easy-reading" version of Chang's more elaborate Understanding Reality. The discussion has slid into the ditch of energetics spin-offs (as usual) as the general tenor of the posts simply do not address the heart of the matter of just Liu I-Ming's quote below (without even delving into the alchemic classic it represents). Perhaps it is just a reminder that people simply do not have any idea what Complete Reality teaching addresses. People want to get to the real by playing with the polluted— that's a given. Since reality is essence and the light is unattributable, it is no wonder people get side-tracked into the 3600 schools which do everything but work with what is the same. The Golden Flower teaching clearly states that the "method" is to work directly with essence, with no intermediary. That is the beauty of the teaching. In order to work directly with essence, it is necessary to find what is unattributable and work with that. What is the same? Essence is uncreated. Awareness is the light of the eyes, the source of immediate knowledge. Immediate knowledge is your own mind when you do not stoop to deliberations in ordinary situations. Yet ordinary people cannot abide in this continuously. If it weren't for that fact, who would require the benefit of self-refinement described in the teaching of alchemy of the school of Complete Reality? What is different? The affliction of unconsciously following a never-ending flow of thought and then using the same shining mind to pursue illusion and then go to extremes acting on these self-created illusory mind-plays assuring one's perpetual bondage in karmic evolution. It's about real freedom, not some sort of practice taken up outside of ordinary situations.. The world is one big abyss. Not one bit of it is real— not even the personality. What is real is one's own shining mind free of illusion. When one is finished with fascinations pertaining to created cycles and just steps over the whole of it, how else can one gain the perspective to see reality as it really is, and be able to act or not, independent of conditions (which, ultimately, are one's own views.) Sadly, people simply do not want to give it up, hence their penchant for taking up the clear words of prior illuminates and changing them to fit and perpetrate the 3600 spin-offs with countless self-deluded derivations only capable of sinking one further into the abysmal. "The method of alchemy involves gathering a bit of true fire of open awareness within conscious knowledge and refining out the adulterating energy of confused feelings, then gathering the true spiritual water of desirelessness within real knowledge and extinguishing the baseless burning of the temperament. When the true fire [of open awareness] and spiritual water [of desirelessness] join into one, [desireless] water and [open awareness] fire balance each other, true feeling and spiritual essence combine, and real knowledge and conscious knowledge cleave to one another; then sense is itself essence and essence is itself sense. Utterly conscious of reality, consciousness utterly real, the unified energy functions the same as heaven and earth. This is likened to lead and mercury being forged into spiritual granules; when the firing is complete, the medicine is perfected and turns violet-gold, never again to change." How can anyone see this and be satisfied with interpretations based on energetics— or even something one could call a "practice"? People don't even question what the elements of alchemy are~ when it is clear that they simply don't know. It isn't even a matter of something to practice. There is nothing to practice. Seeing reality is just it. I respect and commend HE's tenacity and absolute patience in his efforts to bring these words to light, but as the discussions on his threads simply do not even reflect the heart of Complete Reality teaching exposed here as this quote plainly elucidates… I can rarely post on his excellent thread topics. It seems that to address this (his own) topic on his own thread is to be somehow off-topic, which is why I have posted this here. ed note: fix last sentence Edited March 4, 2014 by deci belle 11 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idiot_stimpy Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) beautiful By truly recognizing the entrance to this path with the wisdom of realizing identitylessness, originally pure reality-itself, beyond mental investigation, the absolute nature free of conceptual elaboration, will be experienced with the eye of expansive wisdom. Unlike nebulous, obscure meditations and intellectual fabrications, with the eye of wisdom you directly see the precious, spontaneously present absolute nature, the reality-itself of the expanse of clear light. http://www.theopendoorway.org/thodgal.html Edited March 3, 2014 by idiot_stimpy 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clarity Posted March 3, 2014 Being a dwelling for essence. Turning the light around. Gathering the potential. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted March 3, 2014 Being a dwelling for essence. Turning the light around. Gathering the potential. I hate to be pedantic but this is a Deci thread Or is it being essence itself? and Potential itself? --- I get what you mean but it seems to convey the need for human doing and intervention to achieve a state or possess a state. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clarity Posted March 3, 2014 I hate to be pedantic but this is a Deci thread Or is it being essence itself? and Potential itself? --- I get what you mean but it seems to convey the need for human doing and intervention to achieve a state or possess a state. It is the Secret of the Golden Flower. These three things are not derivative of anything. My teacher had a way of putting it. It is no different. He would say that when you see things as they really are, when sexual energy goes up the spine and into perception, you REALIZE, and steal the light. This is gathering the potential, turning the light around, and being ESSENCE. There is nothing to posses. it happens in the blink of an eye. It is the skill that nobody has. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deci belle Posted March 4, 2014 I am so pleased with the responses from everyone…❤ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deci belle Posted March 4, 2014 My original thought for this thread was to go through Liu's quote a bit. Harmonious Emptiness has even provided brackets within the quote he chose from Liu's commentary on Chang Po-tuan's classic work, in the hope of furthering the clarification Liu's crystalization of Complete Reality praxis for those who wish to penetrate its meaning and take up working with essence directly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colonel Goji Posted March 4, 2014 It is the Secret of the Golden Flower. These three things are not derivative of anything. My teacher had a way of putting it. It is no different. He would say that when you see things as they really are, when sexual energy goes up the spine and into perception, you REALIZE, and steal the light. This is gathering the potential, turning the light around, and being ESSENCE. There is nothing to posses. it happens in the blink of an eye. It is the skill that nobody has. beautiful. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deci belle Posted March 4, 2014 Yes it's a good thing that Clarity cuts loose like that and spells it out directly from time to time!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deci belle Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) "The method of alchemy involves gathering a bit of true fire of open awareness within conscious knowledge and refining out the adulterating energy of confused feelings, then gathering the true spiritual water of desirelessness within real knowledge and extinguishing the baseless [unrooted?] burning of the temperament. When the true fire [of open awareness] and spiritual water [of desirelessness] join into one, [desirelessness] water and [open awareness] fire balance each other, true feeling and spiritual essence combine, and real knowledge and conscious knowledge cleave to one another; then sense is itself essence and essence is itself sense. Utterly conscious of reality, consciousness utterly real, the unified energy functions the same as heaven and earth. This is likened to lead and mercury being forged into spiritual granules; when the firing is complete, the medicine is perfected and turns violet-gold, never again to change." —Liu I-Ming (18th century), from his commentary on Chang Po-tuan's "400 Words on the Gold Elixir" (10th~11th century). Titled, The Inner Teachings of Taoism, trans. Thomas Cleary, Shambhala. ISBN 0-87773-363-5"The method of alchemy involves gathering a bit of true fire of open awareness within conscious knowledge and refining out the adulterating energy of confused feelings, then gathering the true spiritual water of desirelessness within real knowledge and extinguishing the baseless [unrooted?] burning of the temperament."Starting backwards, there is HE's bracketed reference to the word baseless. The baseless burning of the temperament denotes the unreal characteristic of the easily conflagrated human mentality flying off into fiery states burning up the cool dispassion of the mind of tao and destroying the base of real sane energy which is unborn impersonal awareness. Here, the word "baseless" is just confirming that the temperament is conditional, not primary, dependent on the personality and utterly false: baseless.Continuing in a backwards fashion, what extinguishes the baseless conflagratory temperament is "the true spiritual water of desirelessness within real knowledge.These are all related codified terms of the Complete Reality lexicon. Liu's entire quote above is really an all-inclusive crystalization of the epic alchemic teaching exposed in Chang's classics. This true spiritual water of desirelessness within real knowledge contains three terms: true spiritual water, desirelessness, real knowledge. All of these terms denote yang within yin. In terms of the trigrams, yang within yin is Water. This is Vitality (sense). This is the body. It is yin, but contains within it the true sense of real knowledge.In the system of trigrams, whether it be comprised of yin, yang, or a combination of both, whenever there are more of one than the other, the characteristic of a trigramatic symbol is determined by the out-numbered line. In the trigram symbol for water, there are two broken yin lines and one solid yang line. Therefore, water is a yang trigram.It is yang because the true spiritual water of desirelessness within real knowledge is firm, adamant, immovable, unequivocal, unbending, solid and heavy. It sinks readily beyond the reach of conscious knowledge, essence, energy, fire. The object of alchemy is to bring the two things, fire and water, together and force them to fuse into one …fuse back into one to revert the false self into the true self of nonoriginated aware selfless nature.There are countless other references to numbers, animals, internal organs, times, temperature, people, stars, planets, seasons, cardinal directions, etc. These are not important.What is important is that water produces metal. Metal is true lead, the real knowledge of the mind of tao, the desireless nonpsychological awareness that extinguishes the baseless temperament of the false human mentality.Please always remember that none of this exists as such. Alchemy is a device comprised of devices to help people free themselves from the false in order to see the real by bringing out the real in the midst of the false. It is just the way it is, and no one knows why. If it weren't for the false, there would be no way to discern the the real.It is all mind.So the water of real knowledge of the mind of tao (true lead) extinguishes the fire of false awareness (conditioned temperament).There are countless analogies employed in the classic alchemic works by famous and unknown prior illuminates established to help people see reality.The basis of alchemic work is stilling the body. Stilling the emotional body and forgetting feelings produced by sensory perceptions is the way to gather the firm impersonal nonpsychological knowledge that cannot be fooled. This is because the body is truly other. When you have stilled the body, you have gained the impersonal power of the body— then it has no way to over-power the true self by cloying emotional consciousness.When you have arrived at stilling the body, you are as if desireless, and no one can fool you. Metal is firm impersonal objectivity. You can no longer deceive yourself either. In fact, desirelessness is the means to attain the awareness that sees the personality as itself false. This is true knowledge, impersonally objective— the working definition of selfless function in terms of enlightening being: having reclaimed the vital sense to know without deliberation.ed note: add "by cloying emotional consciousness" to end of penultimate paragraph Edited March 5, 2014 by deci belle 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clarity Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) If I were addressing a Taoist Sage, I might ask: "How does one go about becoming more like water, without clinging to practices and forms?" Edit: removed the mixed metaphor! Edited March 6, 2014 by Clarity Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted March 5, 2014 If I were addressing the Buddha, I might ask: "Oh, world honored one, how does one go about becoming more like water, without clinging to practices and forms?" From the dhammapada... (Chapter 26. The True Master) Wanting nothing With all your heart Stop the stream. When the world dissolves Everything becomes clear. Go beyond This way or that way, To the farther shore Where the world dissolves And everything becomes clear. Beyond this shore And the father shore, Beyond the beyond, Where there is no beginning, No end. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johndoe2012 Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) ... Edited January 11, 2015 by johndoe2012 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clarity Posted March 5, 2014 To clarify, this was a 'rhetorical' question (about water) for the sake of the discussion. Meaning, the question is posed as a means of expanding on the discussion of the alchemical process. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deci belle Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) When chris comes to know that being able to claim that the knowledge of not-knowing is really what has already debased ignorance, he will no longer bother wishing anyone other than himself the need for "help". It is really the conceit of ignorance which compels that kind of rhetoric, not the ruthless compassion of enlightening being. If you wish to help, chris …heal thyself first, then feel free to contribute to this thread. Please let go of your hang-up over people who have no problem effectively expressing insight into buddha-nature. You are already this in spite of your ignorance. Don't plant seeds of future retribution by harboring animosity towards those who know they are, and act like it. In other words, a lack of intellectualism on your part will, a priori, eliminate the "mental"~ then what tension is there? I hope that you will continue posting on Harmonious Emptiness' thread because your approach is not up to par for this topic yet. I started this thread for people who are up to speed in terms of entering the inconceivable. Harmonious' thread is more of an introduction to Complete Reality praxis. All it takes is an instant of insight to be blameless forever— then you will know that no one has a self to garner blame. You are not furthering the purpose of this thread because you do not know, as Clarity does know, what the purpose is. Please honor my wishes in this regard, chris… merci. ed note: add "Don't plant seeds of future retribution by harboring animosity towards those who know they are, and act like it" in 4th paragraph Edited March 5, 2014 by deci belle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deci belle Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Becoming water is the function of nonpsychological awareness. Stilling emotional consciousness extinguishes the baseless temperament, giving birth to metal, true lead, real knowledge. There is an applicable phrase found in the alchemic treatises, "the child gives birth to the mother". Here it would mean that by recognizing the real and attaining the function of metal, one then assumes the capacity of water, which is another word for true unity, undifferentiated, primal, selflessly aware. When real knowledge arises out of water, the sense of objective awareness cuts through phenomenal appearances, allowing the saving of energy which is then refined by not using it. The rule is, refine vitality into energy, refine energy into spirit, refine spirit into openness, then empty out openness to enter the tao in reality. ed note: add last four sentences Edited March 5, 2014 by deci belle 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deci belle Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Now addressing the first part of Liu's opening phrase, "The method of alchemy involves gathering a bit of true fire of open awareness within conscious knowledge and refining out the adulterating energy of confused feelings…" we see that having dealt with water, fire is now introduced. The terms used here are "true fire", "open awareness" and "conscious knowledge". As above in the analysis of the trigram water; in fire, there are two solid yang lines enclosing one broken yin line. Therefore this is a yin trigram, fire. Whereas real knowledge is likened to lead, which sinks off easily, conscious knowledge is like fire, which flies off easily, feeding off the temperament (wood). In contrast to lead, fire's characteristic is mercury, which cannot easily be grasped. In terms of primal fire, true fire, the open awareness of conscious knowledge is adulterated by confused feelings. As described above, water is used to quench the polluted fire of temperament. Here, fire is used to distill the polluted emotional consciousness of the body. So true fire works with polluted water and pure water clears out the artificial fire. This is illustrating that fire and water, conscious awareness and real knowledge are originally the same thing, Complete Reality. The point of alchemy is to return to the pristine awareness of whole being, selflessly aware. Another way to express this is that by the process of self-refinement of alchemically firing the celestial cauldron in the furnace of creation (using ordinary situations to cull fire and water), the medicines are refined into their nonoriginated purity and fused into their beginingless unified unborn immortal function. Now about gathering this "bit of true fire"… What is "a bit"? It is the appearance of insight in the midst of ordinary affairs. It is just a bit of it that has no context with the created. Gathering this bit of true fire when it first appears in the midst of ordinary affairs, is spontaneous, automatic. It happens regularly and often, but people instead use this bit of fire to confuse themselves, thereby feeding the conditional fire of their volatile temperaments based on mental configurations habituated to self-reflective patterns of rationalizing: i.e., construing reasons for feeding this same burning temperament the same self-reflective patterns of rationalism. This is the reason this kind of activity is termed "insanity". It simply isn't sobriety. Real people imbued with real knowledge and open awareness are first and foremost, sober. This is the seat of sane energy, whereas the human mentality is the seat of the false consciousness of the rounds of ignorance rooted in the birth and death of karmic evolution. Immortality is the state of transcendence within the created to obviate the false from within the polluted. The alchemic teachings are just describing the way to do it. All people already have the ability to do so, they either don't know how or they don't want to know how. Gathering bits of fire as it appears in the context of ordinary situations, is the same thing as "refining out the adulterating energy of confused feelings". There is no doing at all. It is just a matter of seeing reality without deliberations. As Clarity wrote, it is turning the light around, not using it to create illusions based on personalistic views; instead one shines it back on its source. Personalistic views are just conscious awareness fallen into the created. People are habituated to this mental pattern. That is all it is. But the human mentality is so ingrained in its habit (only in order to prop up the false identity of the personality's "selfhood"), that it is almost impossible to eliminate. Only those with the true aspiration to do anything it takes to see their nature have the correct combination of intent and patience to effect their affair with Power to accomplish the world-honored. ed note: add "So true fire works with polluted water and pure water clears out the artificial fire" in 3rd paragraph Edited March 5, 2014 by deci belle 7 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deci belle Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) "When the true fire [of open awareness] and spiritual water [of desirelessness] join into one, [desirelessness] water and [open awareness] fire balance each other, true feeling and spiritual essence combine, and real knowledge and conscious knowledge cleave to one another; then sense is itself essence and essence is itself sense." (Brackets courtesy of Harmonious Emptiness) to be continued… but I wanted to make sure mr stimpys was on-board! heehee!!❤❤ Liu has given us a running account of the process of the medicinal firing and here states empirically what this state of conscious awareness constituting enlightening function entails. When one is habituated to open nonpsychological awareness free of the volatility of intellectualism, the true fire is perpetuated in continuous subtle contact with the real knowledge of nonoriginated desireless objectivity of the unity of water unsusceptible to emotionalism. It is said that real knowledge (sense) returns to conscious knowledge (essence) by the impersonal intent of the Yellow Woman, the Center, Earth. Thus Fire and Water are joined by Earth. I will introduce a mnemonic device here to help people keep the relationships and combinations of yin and yang in order. It is called The Three Fives based on the fact that Earth is the selfless intent joining Fire and Water. This Center has no location. It is the immaterial body of awareness. "East three", "South two"; "North one", "West four"; "Earth five". At this point, this phrase may not mean much, but it simplifies the vast interrelated aspects of the Complete Reality alchemic device by joining the basic elements of essence, sense, energy, vitality, yin, yang, fire, water and the center, earth. Should in those whose affinity this particular teaching may enable an ever deeper delving into the study and wonder of the unmistakeable ignition of alchemic mystery of essential nonbeing within being and sustain that study with unparalleled concentrated effort in terms of self-refinement in the midst of ordinary affairs, they should continuously make reference to the simple arrangement of the three fives to keep the complexities subtly organized in the mind as one's range of experience builds. it is like juggling a few, then many, many concerted experiences without ever dropping one in terms of mindfullness of the unity of process as the Way is penetrated virtuously. This aspect is a very important part of the overall praxis of the Complete Reality teaching tradition. It is somewhat like an internal and concurrently self-transforming journal. It is the real inner aspect of the outer process in terms of using the outer world to refine the inner self. The "keeping it all suspended without a single interruption" is the amplification and magnification of time and pressure that creates the diamond of one's crystalization of the elixir. REALLY. The ancients did not choose these words at random. As teachings go, this simple device is how to melt everything down into just three elements whose natural catalyzing energy is the fusion in cosmic space of the uncreate itself by keeping a subtle concentration on the amassing of elements conducive to the Complete Reality experience whereby one sees one's own nature beyond the created and witnesses one's nonoriginated essence as impersonal perpetual selfless aware energy. This is reversion to the uncreate itself. Alchemy is the science of essence and life. It is a natural process which has been carried out by real people since time immemorial and beyond through inconceivable velocity as an acceleration by catalyzation of primordial immaterial elements one finds by virtue of finding the center of one's body. I repeat: this center is immaterial and has no location. It is found in the context of adapting impersonally to ordinary situations in the course of one's everyday life. This impersonal center is found in all people. If you can see all people as yourself all at once for a long long time, you will discover this center which has no location, no beginning, no self. It contains the impulse of life, the incipient wellspring of potential. Everything in terms of the firing process of immortalism is found in this center. Having done so myself, I can attest to the power of referring the overarching unity of complexities involved in terms of the real firing process of one's own self-refinement to the three-fives mnemonic. This is the functional state of enlightening being whereby real people adapt impersonally to ordinary situations and operate freely within karmic evolution without entering into the rounds of birth and death. Further introduction to the "three fives" can be found on page 26 of The Book of Balance and Harmony, translated by Thomas Cleary. ISBN 0-86547-363-3 ed note: add everything below "to be continued…" Edited March 7, 2014 by deci belle 6 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Walker Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) 好...... 好! Edited March 7, 2014 by Walker 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clarity Posted March 7, 2014 "This impersonal center is found in all people." A location that has no location! and this: "It contains the impulse of life, the incipient wellspring of potential." A subtle and impersonal spark or wish to live. Thank you, this has been magnificent! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deci belle Posted March 7, 2014 Merci, Vous~ Clarity and sssssmith7!!❤❤ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deci belle Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) "…Utterly conscious of reality, consciousness utterly real, the unified energy functions the same as heaven and earth. This is likened to lead and mercury being forged into spiritual granules; when the firing is complete, the medicine is perfected and turns violet-gold, never again to change." This is the last part of Liu's statement that Harmonious Emptiness quoted. This may yet yield a bit more … The important point here is the phrase "the unified energy functions the same as heaven and earth". Though this could be in reference to evidences of efficacy in terms of the mystic vision of sudden realization where one sees the spiritual granules in the pot merged as a vortex of liquid pearl, I wouldn't limit this phrase's usage to that~ even though it could be, as it is at the end of Liu's powerful statement where it concludes with "…when the firing is complete, the medicine is perfected and turns violet-gold, never again to change." This then should be viewed as the effective and functional application of enlightening being in the world. As one's virtue develops as a result of the gradual process of self-refinement that uses the world to grind down the vestiges of the human mentality by working directly with essence in the context of ordinary situations, the apparent veil between the celestial and the worldly ceases to be. But really the apparent separation is an inner aspect that is mirrored in one's relationship with creation, in terms of the outer. People must learn to take advantage of the fact that one really uses the outer to affect the inner— it is as natural as can be. It isn't a matter of manufacturing situations for any reason whatsoever. One simply adapts to what is, as "what is" is symbiotic within and without. Eventually, one comes to see that there is no, nor has there ever been, any separation in any context beyond one's own relative personalistic views pertaining to self and other, good and bad, before and after. This is the nonoriginated function of unified energy cleaving to one's inherent potential; matching creation tacitly in the course of ordinary affairs. That the unified energy functions the same as heaven and earth isn't just that the celestial and worldly are "sameness within difference" in terms of enlightening activity, it is that there is a real ineffable transformative energy filling oneself to the cusp without ever overflowing or going into action, where one rests in the Virtue of the Receptive, in perpetuity. This is the effective power of the Way when one sublimates oneself spiritually and physically and enters the Tao in reality. When one's own inherent aware nature is fully exposed and matured, it is perfected and turns violet-gold, never again to change. ed note: add everything below "This may yet yield a bit more …" Edited March 10, 2014 by deci belle 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites