RiverSnake

The Power of "Ignore"

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Have a member that's trolling you? Does seeing a Mo Pai thread break your heart? Always remember the Power of the ignore function. :)  

Edited by OldChi
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I had to unhide this post to see it..

 

JOKING! :)

 

Ahhhh!! Made myself wide open to that one.:)

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited by OldChi
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I have, on a couple occasions, wished I could use the "Ignore" function but that just wouldn't be me.

 

If I have a run-in with a member I try to leave them alone for a while - just not read the posts so that I can let any negative feelings evaporate into nothingness.

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I'm not sure I ever used the ignore function.

I did block at least one person's PMs to me, during a time when I was mentally unstable and freaked out...and later unblocked them. The reason for blocking them was not on their end but was totally on mine. Sometimes we need to do what it takes in the moment, to feel peace and stability.

I totally see the use of cultivating serenity...but at least personally, to do it at the expense of others is not ideal. To be ignorant of parts of reality, and of other people, is not what I think is fulfilling. The Hua Hu Ching has some basic and clear ideas about the all embracing nature of the Tao, which we are to emulate if we want to progress. To have "aversion" to some things or people is to be attached to other things, and to be closed off...this is not what the spiritual teachings recommend to do.

Plus, "do unto others" is not in line with this for me...I wouldn't want my ideas time and energy put into posting to be totally neglected. I'm sure it is by more than a few, which doesn't make me feel good...makes me feel unaccepted and unworthy! Not that it bothers me too much...but in aiming to help others and myself on the spiritual path, there's no way I can ignore anyone or anything. I swore an oath very early on in my life to always be there for whoever needs me. And on one level of meaning, to be enlightened means to have full awareness of everything.

Just another perspective on this ignore function.

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Yes I agree with much of what you said. No judgment for people who use the ignore function; I was only sharing another consideration about it.

One thing a good friend said to me when I wasn't giving him much attention for a while..."it's okay man, do what you need to do!" It was a big teaching for me.

If you need to ignore someone, please do what you need to do.

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In terms of those who follow a path of self-cultivation, IMO these kinds of internet ignore functions are detrimental to practice. They are certainly not in accord with life outside an internet setting, and while there is truth in the argument that people already act in "unnatural" ways because of this, I think such potentials should be used as leverage for practice rather than "nerfed" as a protective measure.

 

Also, Im not sure how you can equate ignoring with compassion - and actually that seems like a fairly pernicious bit of rationalization in the long run.

 

Compassion is more like sunshine, reflecting on all things equally without choice.

 

Certainly if you need to narrow your focus by putting on blinders, this may be required initially - but it should not be more than a stepping stone to increased concentration. Ultimately, challenging situations are beneficial for testing and refining practice. Avoidance is only a virtue if you cannot control yourself.

 

Sanctimonious self-superiority is a distinct danger for all kinds of cultivators, and its easily one of the most widespread stumbling blocks. It can stall people for years, decades, even a whole lifetime.

 

Life is inherently "messy", and its best to realize this as quick as possible and really accept it on its own terms. Man made morals and laws and societies are no match for the sovereignty of mother nature. You cant fight the natural order - just work with it. Learn how to cooperate with the natural order in its totality. That is the path of harmony - and enduring the unpleasant manifestations of other people is really only the beginning of it. If you want to let something go, first you must pick it up. Here we are speaking of a way that is not affected by any outer circumstance, a way which cannot be built upon practice in isolation.

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In terms of those who follow a path of self-cultivation, IMO these kinds of internet ignore functions are detrimental to practice. They are certainly not in accord with life outside an internet setting, and while there is truth in the argument that people already act in "unnatural" ways because of this, I think such potentials should be used as leverage for practice rather than "nerfed" as a protective measure.

 

Also, Im not sure how you can equate ignoring with compassion - and actually that seems like a fairly pernicious bit of rationalization in the long run.

 

Compassion is more like sunshine, reflecting on all things equally without choice.

 

Certainly if you need to narrow your focus by putting on blinders, this may be required initially - but it should not be more than a stepping stone to increased concentration. Ultimately, challenging situations are beneficial for testing and refining practice. Avoidance is only a virtue if you cannot control yourself.

 

Sanctimonious self-superiority is a distinct danger for all kinds of cultivators, and its easily one of the most widespread stumbling blocks. It can stall people for years, decades, even a whole lifetime.

 

Life is inherently "messy", and its best to realize this as quick as possible and really accept it on its own terms. Man made morals and laws and societies are no match for the sovereignty of mother nature. You cant fight the natural order - just work with it. Learn how to cooperate with the natural order in its totality. That is the path of harmony - and enduring the unpleasant manifestations of other people is really only the beginning of it. If you want to let something go, first you must pick it up. Here we are speaking of a way that is not affected by any outer circumstance, a way which cannot be built upon practice in isolation.

You make many valid and powerful points 9th. I see that this discussion could get quite subtle and lose value quickly in esoteric jargon. So I'll use an example that many practitioners if not all have experienced:

 

Say you have an old friend whom you used to get along with great. But you've been cultivating for awhile and coming and meeting this friend again you find that you on a personal level have changed completely.

 

Things you had in common with said friend no longer appeal to you and jokes he said before that you both laughed at now sound rude and arrogant. You find that there is no commonality and camaraderie left in the relationship. Yet despite this the pain of letting go of such a close knit relationship is not pleasant. It's difficult despite a sense of mutual lack of interest that has naturally grown between both of you. IMO, one should look past this pain and drop the relationship as it no longer has a foundation or any kind of reciprocity for each individual, there is no spark of resonance left. Many would argue that you should try and force the relationship to work, I disagree.

 

The point being water finds its own level in any arena. Another point being that words, emotions, friendships and a healthy exchange of ideas and knowledge is powerful and can in many circumstances influence the quality of ones life. Additionally we tend to pick up the character traits of those whose company we keep. IMO, this relates in many ways to the topic of this post, if we feel no resonance with the contributions off others, if we feel other individuals are a "full cup" and beyond reason and if their words are inflammatory, offensive, rude, hurtful and tempt you towards anger and rage should we continue a dialogue with such individual due to idealistic tendencies? IMO, the answer is NO.

 

I'd also add that it is difficult to restrain oneself from getting into arguments with trolls if one does not have a intense sense of discipline and self-awareness. Thus once we identify someone as a Troll we can choose to ignore there inflammatory remarks or choose to read them at our own discretion. Been a Bum for awhile now and have seen many highly cultivated teachers with decades of experience fall prey to idiots with keyboards. The only solution I have seen to handle a Troll is Non-Doing and Detachment.

 

Yes, reality is messy, and others limitations can be quite frustrating.....no.....extremely frustrating. I have been working in a non-profit organization for about 3 years now. Working for free and learning to deal with the personal flaws and limitations of others (not saying I am perfect by any means) has developed a sense of humility and patience within me unlike anything else I have ever experienced. Still, one needs to have a space for oneself and the ability to consciously choose ones battles and what we spend our time and focus on.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited by OldChi
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Things you had in common with said friend no longer appeal to you and jokes he said before that you both laughed at now sound rude and arrogant. You find that there is no commonality and camaraderie left in the relationship. Yet despite this the pain of letting go of such a close knit relationship is not pleasant. It's difficult despite a sense of mutual lack of interest that has naturally grown between both of you. IMO, one should look past this pain and drop the relationship as it no longer has a foundation or any kind of reciprocity for each individual, there is no spark of resonance left. Many would argue that you should try and force the relationship to work, I disagree.

 

 

No this is not what I am saying at all. It is important to maintain homeostasis with your environment, and go where the resonance is strongest - I totally agree with this. If that means cutting ties with certain people, then so be it. But it does not mean that you should only travel through rich neighborhoods, never talk to a homeless person, and turn away from any and all suffering you encounter. In fact, offensive people in internet forums are a very mild manifestation of this. It is important to remain open to influences of an unpleasant or negative character, especially during the cultivation phase. There is a point at which such influences become effectively neutralized in terms of a personal hindrance (or benefit) and only previous experience will determine your resulting ability and capacity to serve a universal function. This point is still not the "end of the road", and if you are left with fewer tools you will have fewer opportunities to make use of your time in this life. This advice may or may not sound too abstract to you now, but I want to let you know that a path is derived from the steps taken - not the goal in mind. “As you think, so shall you become.” If you are working on being in accordance with the universal law, that means you must be open - not closed.

 

I am currently working in a non-profit as well, so I feel you there. You already seem predisposed to this kind of thing and that is why I am giving you a heads up. Identifying people a certain way in general is a slippery slope, because it requires you to identify yourself a certain way as well. You may not realize why this is restrictive until later, but I still wanted to provide another perspective for you to consider anyways. Compassion and dependent origination are not just ideas or ideals - in reality the connection between all things is infinitely more influential than the apparent separation between them.

 

It is just something to think about. But do keep in mind that turning away from "evil-doers" or "trolls" or so forth is not a virtue. It is not chivalrous or honorable. It may be necessary for a time - but dont get attached to it unless you want to keep running away from "trouble" for the rest of your life. You have resources available that you have not even dreamed of. Abide in perseverance.

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Also, Im not sure how you can equate ignoring with compassion - and actually that seems like a fairly pernicious bit of rationalization in the long run.

I need speak to this. It is my opinion that "ignoring" is the opposite of compassion. We ignore because we cannot find the compassion to apply to the situation. Oh, Yes, I am guilty of this. And I am speaking to myself more than to anyone else.

 

Just compassion is one of the most powerful tools in a human's toolbox. We need to keep it operational and clean.

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I rarely use the ignore function and then I only used it for people who have no other purpose here than trolling. Because of this topic I checked my ignore list and the three people I found still to be in my ignore list were actually the same person(all banned). That said, if you can not feel compassion for someone ignoring them is much preferred.

Edited by xor
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One can attempt to remove or avoid all the people, events, thoughts, and feelings that trigger our aversion, or one can seek to root out the aversion itself. One method is impossible to win, no matter how good you get at wack a mole, it never ends.

Far better to remove our buttons, than try to keep people from pushing them.

Of course this is all easier said than done, but worth considering.

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I see nothing contradictory about the ignore function. Of course it comes down to the individual as in all things. One person's cowardly avoidance of real life is the other person's path to serenity. Personally, I just don't like the distraction of predictable pedantry.

 

Also, I would caution those who speak from 'compassion' that there's a very fine line between compassion and condescension. Not casting any judgments at all (and I hope this doesn't come off as condescending, haha!), I'm just pointing out that it's something to be aware of and to check once in a while. In real life.

Edited by soaring crane
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It is just something to think about. But do keep in mind that turning away from "evil-doers" or "trolls" or so forth is not a virtue. It is not chivalrous or honorable. It may be necessary for a time - but dont get attached to it unless you want to keep running away from "trouble" for the rest of your life. You have resources available that you have not even dreamed of. Abide in perseverance.

 

You make many valid points 9th, especially about attraction and aversion not becoming a blinder. I must admit I do not like trolls. They soil the pool in which we all swim. However, at the same time there is nothing you can really do about such people.....as to engage them in dialogue only plays into their hands and causes further flame wars.

 

The act of ignoring is an act of detachment (non-doing) and a surrendering to the fact that there is not much constructive conversation that can occur when approaching a "full cup", but perhaps at a later time it can. We can only remain neutral and in a state of equanimity while going about our buisiness as a Bum. Doing our best to not becoming sucked into unhealthy conversations on forums and at the same time route out pearls and gems of wisdoms where they may lie.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited by OldChi
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Also, I would caution those who speak from 'compassion' that there's a very fine line between compassion and condescension. Not casting any judgments at all (and I hope this doesn't come off as condescending, haha!), I'm just pointing out that it's something to be aware of and to check once in a while. In real life.

Actually, this part is worth repeating.

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I know this is meant to be a cultivation forum, but IMHO that doesn't mean that I have to read every single word on every thread, posted by every other member (trolls or not).

 

I have particular interests & preferences, which may (or may not) change over time.

 

Surely I have the right to read (or ignore) whatever I want to on here.

(Unless it's in a restricted area or a PM)

 

Basher

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It's easy enough to ignore a poster by simply not reading what they post.

Use the ignore button though and you can't ever see their posts.

Maybe one day they'll post that piece of wisdom just right for you at that moment and if you have 'em on ignore you'll miss it.

Unlikely for sure but stranger things have happened at sea.

:-)

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Surely I have the right to read (or ignore) whatever I want to on here.

You, and everyone else, absolutely have that right. There are many threads I never visit as my interest level is very low or even non-existant. And I know that there are many here who do not visit the philosophy threads. That's all good.

 

I'm sure it is a valid statement to say that we all ignore certain things and even people in our 'real' life. Why would we be different here?

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Having "rights" is another issue, but somewhat related anyways.

 

The idea is that if you consider yourself "compassionate" or "honorable" or doing the "right thing", chances are you are heading in the direction of self-righteousness and sanctimonious moralizing. Its a trap that plenty of cultivators miss. Its not a rare problem.

 

Everyone is fallible, that is the point. Having a real view on equanimity is quite helpful, because accepting faults in others helps to accept faults in yourself and vice versa. It contributes to a workable situation rather than something to be avoided and shunned and down-voted and booed and so forth. You might think that you are doing yourself a favor by avoiding all the assholes in your life, but you can also do yourself a favor by realizing that assholes only exist in your own mind to begin with.

 

I never said it was easy, btw.

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Cat, I just colored you hot orange. Hehehe.

 

Having been married three time I perfected the art of selective hearing.

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