Turning vegetarian - need advice

[gatito]

Please elaborate...I think I understand but I do tend to get tangled in words...

 

I'm saying (among other things ) that debating the supposed "morality" of becoming a vegetarian is an excercise in futility.

[Rara]

Odd, my post from my mobile vanished and mobile site just became the normal site!

 

Anyway, what I said was...

 

Exactly why I left the thread. My decision was already made regardless. No one else's concern, just like I don't interfere with other people's decisions

[gatito]

Exactly

[Rara]

Hello again. Short of explaining everything I'm going through (on my third week) , this article says it all...

 

http://daiasolgaia.com/?p=2750

 

I am very happy that this thread turned into a debate about the decision as now it is very important.

 

I'm even more open to Taomeow's opinion (who will only say "I told you so") but if anybody has any wisdom as to if I'm just "doing it wrong" , I'm also all ears. I want to hear more from the Tao Bums...I trust many on here...and I do not know thr person that wrotr this.

 

But in short, very soon I could be back on the meat. My guts are fucked.

 

Also, if everyone was veggie, apparently the methane from farts would be devestating to the atmosphere...so I read somewhere else.

 

Discuss! Now. While I'm still alive haha...

[Brian]

You could do far worse in pretty much any situation than to listen to Taomeow's opinion, in MY opinion...

 

This one in particular.

 

[gatito]

Hello again. Short of explaining everything I'm going through (on my third week) , this article says it all...

 

http://daiasolgaia.com/?p=2750

 

I am very happy that this thread turned into a debate about the decision as now it is very important.

 

I'm even more open to Taomeow's opinion (who will only say "I told you so") but if anybody has any wisdom as to if I'm just "doing it wrong" , I'm also all ears. I want to hear more from the Tao Bums...I trust many on here...and I do not know thr person that wrotr this.

 

But in short, very soon I could be back on the meat. My guts are fucked.

 

Also, if everyone was veggie, apparently the methane from farts would be devestating to the atmosphere...so I read somewhere else.

 

Discuss! Now. While I'm still alive haha...

 

As you said....

 

......... No one else's concern, just like I don't interfere with other people's decisions

 

Nor do I

 

I'd see a competent GP if I were you

[Taomeow]

Brian,

 

why thank you dear!

[Taomeow]

Rara,

 

thank you for inviting me back in.

 

The article you linked took me way back... to the year when I used to hang out with a bunch of vegans, vegetarians, raw foodists, juicers (juicing fans, not machines) and fruitarians in LA. Exploring the scene, and also maintaining some friendships, not over the dietary issues but because a couple of those vegetarians were into classical music and we had seasonal passes to the philharmonic, so I would go to concerts with them once or twice a month. Well, what can I say -- neither one of them could sit through a symphony without making a few runs to the bathroom. And, yes, the theory was "detoxing," but we were going to those concerts the whole year and they never stopped detoxing...

 

So, if you are still looking to pick folks' brains on dietary strategies and include mine in the pool, you can probably go back and find some of my old posts on nutrition. For a quickie though: if you go back to meat, start with very small portions and take some digestive enzymes with your meals for a while. (Some of the good ones are quite expensive and some of the cheap ones are not efficient -- the cheap and decent one you could find at a HFS is made by Solaray and called DigestAway. It may come in different versions, make sure you read the label and choose the one that includes proteolytic enzymes.)

 

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[thelerner]

Win or lose, I applaud people who are willing to leave there comfort zone and experiment with life style. Especially when they're honest enough to give things an honest chance and back off if its not working.

[mYTHmAKER]

Re farts

Farts occur when food is not combined properly nothing to do with being a vegetarian.

I have heard and smelled many a flesh eater adding to the ozone layer.

also eating the food that digests fastest first followed by the next fastest etc will reduce flatulence. It is a good policy for all regardless of food beliefs.

 

Re Frequent urination

There is a tendency to urinate more frequently as a vegetarian as there is a larger intake of foods which become water.

This also has to do with the amount of salt intake.

I do not add salt to my food - when I eat out and salt is added i urinate less frequently.

[i am]

This is all very interesting.

 

I know my bowel movements tend to be very smooth and "no fuss" when I'm eating certain things I don't consider to be healthy...sometimes it seems my body runs better on the foods I try to avoid! Though I wouldn't commit to a way of eating just based on how it comes out in the end...but it does say something.

 

When I lived in the dorms in college and ate endless greasy, fatty cafeteria food, I was the most regular and easy pooping I can ever remember being.

[i am]

So I guess we need to learn from vegetarian cultures. How to eat. If we were to try it.

 

Because clearly there's a way to make it work.

 

Children and adults training Kung fu in Shaolin eat a vegetarian diet. They are working their bodies to the limit every day. And I don't know, maybe they're farting the whole time and run to the bathroom a lot. But they seem ok.

 

But yes...when I try to eat mostly quinoa or rice, and tons of veggies (slightly cooked and raw), minus meat and grains, my digestion gets all f'd up. I have to assume that's more because I don't know what I'm doing than anything. But...

 

It's insane how complicated this can all get, if we let it.

Edited December 3, 2013 by i am

[Rara]

Re farts

Farts occur when food is not combined properly nothing to do with being a vegetarian.

I have heard and smelled many a flesh eater adding to the ozone layer.

also eating the food that digests fastest first followed by the next fastest etc will reduce flatulence. It is a good policy for all regardless of food beliefs.

 

Re Frequent urination

There is a tendency to urinate more frequently as a vegetarian as there is a larger intake of foods which become water.

This also has to do with the amount of salt intake.

I do not add salt to my food - when I eat out and salt is added i urinate less frequently.

Yeah, no doubt having a poor combination of any foods causes this. But from eating the odd meaty pizza, this would only be a temporary thing, for a morning or a day, perhaps.

 

Over the last few week, it's not just the farts, but random constipation then loose stools. Basically, my bowels don't know if they're coming or going.

[Rara]

So I guess we need to learn from vegetarian cultures. How to eat. If we were to try it.

 

Because clearly there's a way to make it work.

 

Children and adults training Kung fu in Shaolin eat a vegetarian diet. They are working their bodies to the limit every day. And I don't know, maybe they're farting the whole time and run to the bathroom a lot. But they seem ok.

 

But yes...when I try to eat mostly quinoa or rice, and tons of veggies (slightly cooked and raw), minus meat and grains, my digestion gets all f'd up. I have to assume that's more because I don't know what I'm doing than anything. But...

 

It's insane how complicated this can all get, if we let it.

Do you really know if these Shaolin kids are ok? I would say I work my body to the limit every day too. Right now, with frequent breaks. To anybody else though, I would still appear ok. I'm hardly making this all obvious in public haha.

 

But yes, the diet has been lots of veg and rice/potatoes/bread as well as oats, nuts, pulses, eggs, and fruit. There's nothing else out there unless I go for processed stuff, which I avoided when I was eating meat (from the local butchers and fish from the mongers)

Edited December 4, 2013 by Rara

[Rara]

Rara,

 

thank you for inviting me back in.

 

The article you linked took me way back... to the year when I used to hang out with a bunch of vegans, vegetarians, raw foodists, juicers (juicing fans, not machines) and fruitarians in LA. Exploring the scene, and also maintaining some friendships, not over the dietary issues but because a couple of those vegetarians were into classical music and we had seasonal passes to the philharmonic, so I would go to concerts with them once or twice a month. Well, what can I say -- neither one of them could sit through a symphony without making a few runs to the bathroom. And, yes, the theory was "detoxing," but we were going to those concerts the whole year and they never stopped detoxing...

 

So, if you are still looking to pick folks' brains on dietary strategies and include mine in the pool, you can probably go back and find some of my old posts on nutrition. For a quickie though: if you go back to meat, start with very small portions and take some digestive enzymes with your meals for a while. (Some of the good ones are quite expensive and some of the cheap ones are not efficient -- the cheap and decent one you could find at a HFS is made by Solaray and called DigestAway. It may come in different versions, make sure you read the label and choose the one that includes proteolytic enzymes.)

 

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Thank you

[C T]

Yeah, no doubt having a poor combination of any foods causes this. But from eating the odd meaty pizza, this would only be a temporary thing, for a morning or a day, perhaps.

 

Over the last few week, it's not just the farts, but random constipation then loose stools. Basically, my bowels don't know if they're coming or going.

The flora in your gut is out of balance, methinks.

[Rara]

The flora in your gut is out of balance, methinks.

From what I remember, pretty much the same problem that cows have? Those dudes need to eat like 24/7 and have hard work digesting...

 

 

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_does_a_vegetarian's_farts_smell_worse_than_average

Edited December 4, 2013 by Rara

[mYTHmAKER]

Yeah, no doubt having a poor combination of any foods causes this. But from eating the odd meaty pizza, this would only be a temporary thing, for a morning or a day, perhaps.

 

Over the last few week, it's not just the farts, but random constipation then loose stools. Basically, my bowels don't know if they're coming or going.

Give it some time. Your body has to adjust.

One should move ones bowels every day at least once

with no straining - and quickly - no time to read.

[gatito]

From what I remember, pretty much the same problem that cows have? Those dudes need to eat like 24/7 and have hard work digesting...

 

 

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_does_a_vegetarian's_farts_smell_worse_than_average

 

Nothing like cows, in fact, humans can't digest grass because they can't break-down the cellulose walls of the grass cells, like cows. If you want to profit from the incredible benefits of grasses, they need to be juiced with a special juicer (i.e. not a cheap centrifugal one). I also use mine to include 10% juiced mixed vegetables (with the pulp remixed) in the diet of the two carnivorous predators that I keep as pets in order to simulate their prey model as closely as possible. They get about 70% raw lean meat, 10% raw bone, 10% offal (liver, lungs, heart etc) and I also add in about 10% raw, unwashed, green beef tripe (cow's stomach) so they get the pre-digested grass and all the beneficial gut flora and enzymes. From time to time they also get raw whole fish as a special treat. People stop me and ask what they're fed on because they glow with health and vitality!

 

DISCLAIMER: Do not eat this mixture if you are a human!!!!! (and never feed your dogs cooked meat, cooked bones or any grains - even dogs can't properly digest and process the resultant toxic sludge of heat-treated dead animals/fish).

 

Moving on......in principle, I tend to agree with both CT's and mYTHmAKER's comments.

 

Some veggie's would say that your body is going through a healing crisis now that you've stopped poisoning it with meat.

 

If you want to balance and repopulate your guts you can drink kefir (and I'll send you some grains as a starter kit (for free) - if you want to try it), live yoghurt and/or acidophilus tablets (Holland & Barrett). But.....another disclaimer....you can provoke a healing crisis just by taking kefir and/or acidophilus!!!

 

However, having said all this, you should ring the Vegetarian Society for proper advice and/or consult your (hopefully competent) GP.

 

Especially, do NOT rely on any anonymous internet posters where your health (and that of your pets) is concerned.

[Rara]

 

Nothing like cows, in fact, humans can't digest grass because they can't break-down the cellulose walls of the grass cells, like cows. If you want to profit from the incredible benefits of grasses, they need to be juiced with a special juicer (i.e. not a cheap centrifugal one). I also use mine to include 10% juiced mixed vegetables (with the pulp remixed) in the diet of the two carnivorous predators that I keep as pets in order to simulate their prey model as closely as possible. They get about 70% raw lean meat, 10% raw bone, 10% offal (liver, lungs, heart etc) and I also add in about 10% raw, unwashed, green beef tripe (cow's stomach) so they get the pre-digested grass and all the beneficial gut flora and enzymes. From time to time they also get raw whole fish as a special treat. People stop me and ask what they're fed on because they glow with health and vitality!

 

DISCLAIMER: Do not eat this mixture if you are a human!!!!! (and never feed your dogs cooked meat, cooked bones or any grains - even dogs can't properly digest and process the resultant toxic sludge of heat-treated dead animals/fish).

 

Moving on......in principle, I tend to agree with both CT's and mYTHmAKER's comments.

 

Some veggie's would say that your body is going through a healing crisis now that you've stopped poisoning it with meat.

 

If you want to balance and repopulate your guts you can drink kefir (and I'll send you some grains as a starter kit (for free) - if you want to try it), live yoghurt and/or acidophilus tablets (Holland & Barrett). But.....another disclaimer....you can provoke a healing crisis just by taking kefir and/or acidophilus!!!

 

However, having said all this, you should ring the Vegetarian Society for proper advice and/or consult your (hopefully competent) GP.

 

Especially, do NOT rely on any anonymous internet posters where your health (and that of your pets) is concerned.

Hehe, I knew it was only a matter of time before you stepped in.

 

Absolutely. I'm calling the GP first thing in the morning to get an appointment. But I wasn't talking about eating grass. Just they plant-based diet that appears to cause digestive issues...too much flora leading to methane production.

[Rara]

Give it some time. Your body has to adjust.

One should move ones bowels every day at least once

with no straining - and quickly - no time to read.

Ok, but I'm almost 3 weeks in. And two weeks prior, I was gradually reducing meat to consume every other day. Ever since, I've been needing to visit the bathroom 4-5 times a day!!

[i am]

Is GP general practitioner? I wouldn't trust most with diet advice...

 

I know a trained nutritionist, and it's the governments opinion and therefore guideline that dairy, and milk in particular is a NECESSARY part of the human diet. Can't be healthy without it.

 

This was just one of a few conversations that caused me to stop getting into discussions about food and health with her...

 

If you're going to see someone about diet...ask around and choose wisely. Most just tow the line.

[Rara]

Is GP general practitioner? I wouldn't trust most with diet advice...

 

I know a trained nutritionist, and it's the governments opinion and therefore guideline that dairy, and milk in particular is a NECESSARY part of the human diet. Can't be healthy without it.

 

This was just one of a few conversations that caused me to stop getting into discussions about food and health with her...

 

If you're going to see someone about diet...ask around and choose wisely. Most just tow the line.

Sure, in fact, last time I went to see a local nutritionist, I got nowhere.

 

But I want to see a GP to simply say "my guts are spilling. Is this ok?" To me, this is odd. I don't see how it can possibly take 3 weeks to "adapt"...

[Rara]

But yes, screw dairy. I don't really like the stuff. Just pizza and occasionally cappucino

[gatito]

Hehe, I knew it was only a matter of time before you stepped in.

 

Absolutely. I'm calling the GP first thing in the morning to get an appointment. But I wasn't talking about eating grass. Just they plant-based diet that appears to cause digestive issues...too much flora leading to methane production.

 

 

I know In your case, it could be too few of the appropriate symbiotes, and speaking from personal experience, I don't suffer from the symptoms that you've outlined - and I've also learned to stay away from carnivore toilets - although I do pick up after Cerberus and SnugglePuppy

 

 

Is GP general practitioner? I wouldn't trust most with diet advice...

 

I know a trained nutritionist, and it's the governments opinion and therefore guideline that dairy, and milk in particular is a NECESSARY part of the human diet. Can't be healthy without it.

 

This was just one of a few conversations that caused me to stop getting into discussions about food and health with her...

 

If you're going to see someone about diet...ask around and choose wisely. Most just tow the line.

 

Yep - GP = General Practitioner - some are competent and some are not - ecactly the same as "nutritionists"

Edited December 4, 2013 by gatito