Apech

Gospel of Thomas

353 posts in this topic

 

The passage suggests that we need to become 'large fish' before being accepted by the fisherman - that is some level of maturity. Small fish are thrown back into the water ... to learn more before they are ready ????

Yes, I think that description also fits. But, we must also think of it in the context that the "kingdom" is inside you.

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Dudes, There are a few points I think that historically are being overlooked here. First and foremost that Jesus was known as an Eastern mystic....he spent his 40 days and 40 nights in India supposively...and continued to travel in the East before he started his ministry in his 30's..... Perhaps this is the most peculiar part of Christianity, it has always been to me.... we hear of Jesus being born and then lots of time passes until he is a mature adult. What exactly was he doing that whole time?

 

First, the phrase "son of man" or "son of God" when observed in the time of it's use reveals a much plainer definition. People back then would say "son" in place of "servant." So Jesus was just saying he was the servant of man and God, the helper of humankind and it's creator. That makes sense.

 

Secondly, in the gospel of Thomas, Jesus also refers to the 5 trees of knowledge. I find this fascinating as the number 5 is also included in very old hindu theories of existence, meaning the 5 absolute cosmic elements of fire, water, air, earth, and the akasha. This correlation is perhaps the most significant because many hindi yogis and hindu deities have absolute power- just as Jesus displayed in the many miracles he performed. There is Hanuman, Ganesh, the man Vallalar, and many more. Even in the gospel of Thomas he mentions that "whosoever has mastered the 5 trees, will conquer the All." I think this is quite literal, the All being everything in creation, the entire universe...you, your friends, the sky, the birds, the seas. Since time immemorial people have been rumored to have superpowers...The All being the Universal Mind. The Mind of everything. Buddha has been mentioned as someone of this renkown, taoist immortals also...

 

Thirdly, in The gospel of Thomas, Jesus seems to continually use the taoist concept of yin and yang to explain things.

 

And last of all, from the taoist point of view, Jesus can be considered a transformed immortal, because he did reappear in physical form after he physically died.

 

Jesus is perhaps the most popular and common to the Western world, he said many things about life that are worthwhile to pay attention to. It's amazing to me that people can actually buy into Christianity exclusively as it is presented to them, thankfully we here can speak amongst ourselves.

 

Something else that is shared between The Holy Bible book of revelations, and the Hindu vedic prediction is that of a man returning to earth on a white horse thwarting the world of evil. I find this fascinating. Hindu's regard Lord Vishnu as the preserver of righteousness who will return as "Kilka" a man riding a white horse destroying evil and preserving our Earth. The book of revelations has the same story.... awfully strange.

 

All the powers arise out of the absolute....as the hindus say. They arise out of the God that resides within you. Is God immortal, eternal, and all powerful....? If he/she it is and there is a piece of that in you, then yes I think you would be astonished when you realize how much you can actually do.

 

But let's not forget, in the words of Lao Tse, "Occult abilities are just flowers of the Tao, and the beginning of all foolishness."

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Dudes, There are a few points I think that historically are being overlooked here. First and foremost that Jesus was known as an Eastern mystic....he spent his 40 days and 40 nights in India supposively...and continued to travel in the East before he started his ministry in his 30's..... Perhaps this is the most peculiar part of Christianity, it has always been to me.... we hear of Jesus being born and then lots of time passes until he is a mature adult. What exactly was he doing that whole time?

 

First, the phrase "son of man" or "son of God" when observed in the time of it's use reveals a much plainer definition. People back then would say "son" in place of "servant." So Jesus was just saying he was the servant of man and God, the helper of humankind and it's creator. That makes sense.

 

Secondly, in the gospel of Thomas, Jesus also refers to the 5 trees of knowledge. I find this fascinating as the number 5 is also included in very old hindu theories of existence, meaning the 5 absolute cosmic elements of fire, water, air, earth, and the akasha. This correlation is perhaps the most significant because many hindi yogis and hindu deities have absolute power- just as Jesus displayed in the many miracles he performed. There is Hanuman, Ganesh, the man Vallalar, and many more. Even in the gospel of Thomas he mentions that "whosoever has mastered the 5 trees, will conquer the All." I think this is quite literal, the All being everything in creation, the entire universe...you, your friends, the sky, the birds, the seas. Since time immemorial people have been rumored to have superpowers...The All being the Universal Mind. The Mind of everything. Buddha has been mentioned as someone of this renkown, taoist immortals also...

 

Thirdly, in The gospel of Thomas, Jesus seems to continually use the taoist concept of yin and yang to explain things.

 

And last of all, from the taoist point of view, Jesus can be considered a transformed immortal, because he did reappear in physical form after he physically died.

 

Jesus is perhaps the most popular and common to the Western world, he said many things about life that are worthwhile to pay attention to. It's amazing to me that people can actually buy into Christianity exclusively as it is presented to them, thankfully we here can speak amongst ourselves.

 

Something else that is shared between The Holy Bible book of revelations, and the Hindu vedic prediction is that of a man returning to earth on a white horse thwarting the world of evil. I find this fascinating. Hindu's regard Lord Vishnu as the preserver of righteousness who will return as "Kilka" a man riding a white horse destroying evil and preserving our Earth. The book of revelations has the same story.... awfully strange.

 

All the powers arise out of the absolute....as the hindus say. They arise out of the God that resides within you. Is God immortal, eternal, and all powerful....? If he/she it is and there is a piece of that in you, then yes I think you would be astonished when you realize how much you can actually do.

 

But let's not forget, in the words of Lao Tse, "Occult abilities are just flowers of the Tao, and the beginning of all foolishness."

You have to back that claim up.

40 days and nights in India-Reference

Traveled far East-Reference

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9) Jesus said, "Now the sower went out, took a handful (of

seeds), and scattered them. Some fell on the road; the birds came

and gathered them up. Others fell on the rock, did not take root

in the soil, and did not produce ears. And others fell on thorns;

they choked the seed(s) and worms ate them. And others fell on

the good soil and produced good fruit: it bore sixty per measure

and a hundred and twenty per measure."

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18) The disciples said to Yeshua, "Tell us how our end will be."


Yeshua said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end? For where the beginning is, that is where the end will be. Blessed is he who stands at the beginning; he will know the end and will not taste death."

 

 

Revelations, 1:8) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

 

 

In the gematria of 2nd century bishop Irenaeus, 801 is equivalent to the Greek word for "dove", and for the letters Alpha and Omega reversed.

 

A mala (Sanskrit:माला; mālā, meaning garland[1]) is a set of beads commonly used by Hindus and Buddhists, usually made from 108 beads, though other numbers are also used. Malas are used for keeping count while reciting, chanting, or mentally repeating a mantra or the name or names of a deity. This practice is known in Sanskrit as japa.

 

The Shiva Purana lists 1008 names for Shiva.

 

The theonym Shiva originates as an epithet of Rudra, the adjective shiva ("kind") being used euphemistically of the god who in the Rigveda also carries the epithet ghora ("terrible"). Usage of the epithet came to exceed the original theonym and by the post-Vedic period (in the Sanskrit Epics), the name Rudra has been taken as a synonym for the god Shiva and the two names are used interchangeably.

 

Rudra (Devanagari: रुद्र) is a Rigvedic deity, associated with wind or storm,[1] and the hunt. The name has been translated as "The Mightiest Terror", "the roarer".

 

Likewise, Tibetan Buddhist malas or rosaries (Tib. ཕྲེང་བ Wyl. phreng ba, "Trengwa") are usually 108 beads;[1] sometimes 111 including the guru bead(s), reflecting the words of the Buddha called in Tibetan the Kangyur (Wylie: Bka'-'gyur) in 108 volumes.

 

Zen priests wear juzu (a ring of prayer beads) around their wrists, which consists of 108 beads.[2]

The Lankavatara Sutra has a section where the Bodhisattva Mahamati asks Buddha 108 questions[3] and another section where Buddha lists 108 statements of negation in the form of "A statement concerning X is not statement concerning X".[4] In a footnote, D.T. Suzuki explains that the Sanskrit word translated as "statement" is pada which can also mean "foot-step" or "a position." This confusion over the word "pada" explains why some have mistakenly held that the reference to 108 statements in the Lankavatara refer to the 108 steps that many temples have.

 

In some schools of Buddhism it is believed that there are 108 feelings. According to Bhante Gunaratana[6] this number is reached by multiplying the senses smell, touch, taste, hearing, sight, and consciousness by whether they are painful, pleasant or neutral, and then again by whether these are internally generated or externally occurring, and yet again by past, present and future, finally we get 108 feelings. 6 × 3 × 2 × 3 = 108.

 

In Japan, at the end of the year, a bell is chimed 108 times in Buddhist temples to finish the old year and welcome the new one. Each ring represents one of 108 earthly temptations a person must overcome to achieve nirvana.

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9) Jesus said, "Now the sower went out, took a handful (of

seeds), and scattered them. Some fell on the road; the birds came

and gathered them up. Others fell on the rock, did not take root

in the soil, and did not produce ears. And others fell on thorns;

they choked the seed(s) and worms ate them. And others fell on

the good soil and produced good fruit: it bore sixty per measure

and a hundred and twenty per measure."

 

This one seems to describe the various nature of souls/spirits and their potential of advancement. A seed needs fertile soil to grow, so those who land on the road are pretty much out of luck. These are people who are overwhelmed my their anger.

 

Landing on the rock is describing a hardened heart of blaming things on others (and God). With a hardened heart one cannot learn to truly listen to the heart (produce ears).

 

Thorns that choke the seeds are attachments, worms are desires.

 

In producing good fruit, Jesus describes two level (60 and 120). Pointing out that realizing the "soul" is not the same for everyone. That there are different levels of "yield" in God.

 

--------------

 

Hi 9th,

 

We are working through the Gospel of Thomas in order of verses. I hope that you will join us.

 

Regards,

Jeff

Edited by Jeff

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9) Jesus said, "Now the sower went out, took a handful (of

seeds), and scattered them. Some fell on the road; the birds came

and gathered them up. Others fell on the rock, did not take root

in the soil, and did not produce ears. And others fell on thorns;

they choked the seed(s) and worms ate them. And others fell on

the good soil and produced good fruit: it bore sixty per measure

and a hundred and twenty per measure."

 

This one seems to describe the various nature of souls/spirits and their potential of advancement. A seed needs fertile soil to grow, so those who land on the road are pretty much out of luck. These are people who are overwhelmed my their anger.

 

Landing on the rock is describing a hardened heart of blaming things on others (and God). With a hardened heart one cannot learn to truly listen to the heart (produce ears).

 

Thorns that choke the seeds are attachments, worms are desires.

 

In producing good fruit, Jesus describes two level (60 and 120). Pointing out that realizing the "soul" is not the same for everyone. That there are different levels of "yield" in God.

 

--------------

 

Hi 9th,

 

We are working through the Gospel of Thomas in order of verses. I hope that you will join us.

 

Regards,

Jeff

 

For things to take root there has to be both the seed (the idea - in the original Greek sense of the word, the inspiration or perhaps the transmission) and the right environment for it to grow ... here we have four environments ... the road, the rock, the bad ground and the good. The road is interesting because the birds get the benefit ... or rather the seed is immediately swallowed up and returned to the sky = heaven, the rock ... which is often a symbol for spirit (ruach) but here just means the completely unready, the bad ground which is contaminated by negative activities and good. So we are told the grain grows twice as much (120) in the good ground than the bad (60). There's probably some gematria here but I do not know it.

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For things to take root there has to be both the seed (the idea - in the original Greek sense of the word, the inspiration or perhaps the transmission) and the right environment for it to grow ... here we have four environments ... the road, the rock, the bad ground and the good. The road is interesting because the birds get the benefit ... or rather the seed is immediately swallowed up and returned to the sky = heaven, the rock ... which is often a symbol for spirit (ruach) but here just means the completely unready, the bad ground which is contaminated by negative activities and good. So we are told the grain grows twice as much (120) in the good ground than the bad (60). There's probably some gematria here but I do not know it.

 

Hi Apech,

 

Some very interesting concepts. So, with the seed swallowed up by the birds... What do you mean by going back to heaven? Do you think that those are lives that never had a chance to be lived? Or, something else?

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Hi Apech, Some very interesting concepts. So, with the seed swallowed up by the birds... What do you mean by going back to heaven? Do you think that those are lives that never had a chance to be lived? Or, something else?

 

 

I think like all parables it can be read in a number of ways. So yes the seed that the birds eat could be souls who do not /or cannot incarnate. or it could be a transmission which never takes root (the energy has to go somewhere) ... or it could mean an idea which does not take root ... like one that is so ahead of its time that the moment it is spoken it is gone ....

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8) And He said, "The Kingdom is like a wise fisherman who cast

his net into the sea and drew it up from the sea full of small fish.

Among them the wise fisherman found a fine large fish. He threw

all the small fish back into the sea and chose the large fish

without difficulty.

 

Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear."

 

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77) Yeshua said, "It is I who is the light which is above them All. It is I who is the All. From I did the All come forth, and unto I did the All extend. Split a piece of wood, and I AM there. Lift up the stone, and you will find I there."

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77) Yeshua said, "It is I who is the light which is above them All. It is I who is the All. From I did the All come forth, and unto I did the All extend. Split a piece of wood, and I AM there. Lift up the stone, and you will find I there."

 

 

**** Steward Message ***

 

Hi,

 

Thank you for posting here but please read the thread first. We are going through the Gospel of Thomas verse by verse and discussing it ... please don't post random quotes ... please do join in the commentary. If you post like this again I will be forced to hide your post or ask the mods to split it out into a different topic.

 

Thanks

 

Apech.

Edited by Apech
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Apech - On to verse 10?

 

 

I would like more people to post their views. At the moment its more of less thee and me (which is not a problem in itself). So if anyone, especially those who welcomed this thread, would like to join in ... feel free ... you don't have to know a vast amount about the Bible etc. just post what the verse says to you. Even if it sounds stupid. We won't laugh ... well not to your face ... maybe behind your back :) (just kidding) ... please more posters )pn topic) please.

 


 

10) Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and see, I am

guarding it until it blazes."

 

 

Cheerful chap that Jesus. Here it is number 10.

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@ Da Bomb Please refer to this brief website as a reference. And all the Vedas that the hindu religion is based on.

 

http://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm

 

Also, one thing to remember with the historical point of view of things...its not possible to disprove that someone was somewhere 2,000 years after the fact. Don't you find it odd that there is very little to no record of what Jesus was doing in between the ages of 13-30? I sure do.

 

Seriously man, check out the hindu theories and you'll see many parallels to them in many things Jesus was quoted as saying...especially in the gospel of Thomas. The 5 cosmic elements is the most obvious parallel, and the ability to conquer the "all".

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@ Da Bomb Please refer to this brief website as a reference. And all the Vedas that the hindu religion is based on.

 

http://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm

 

Also, one thing to remember with the historical point of view of things...its not possible to disprove that someone was somewhere 2,000 years after the fact. Don't you find it odd that there is very little to no record of what Jesus was doing in between the ages of 13-30? I sure do.

 

Seriously man, check out the hindu theories and you'll see many parallels to them in many things Jesus was quoted as saying...especially in the gospel of Thomas. The 5 cosmic elements is the most obvious parallel, and the ability to conquer the "all".

 

Please read post 62 before you post in this thread again. Thank you.

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10) Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and see, I am

guarding it until it blazes."

 

 

In this verse, Jesus is talking about a radical shift he is bringing to the (Jewish) world. It is a new covenant (fire) and level of "realization" in God. A new level of "truth" beyond the previous words of Moses.

 

 

John 1:16-17 (KJV)

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

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**** Steward Message ***

 

Hi,

 

Thank you for posting here but please read the thread first. We are going through the Gospel of Thomas verse by verse and discussing it ... please don't post random quotes ... please do join in the commentary. If you post like this again I will be forced to hide your post or ask the mods to split it out into a different topic.

 

Thanks

 

Apech.

 

 

Whatever you say, your majesty! :D

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10) Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and see, I am

guarding it until it blazes."

 

 

In this verse, Jesus is talking about a radical shift he is bringing to the (Jewish) world. It is a new covenant (fire) and level of "realization" in God. A new level of "truth" beyond the previous words of Moses.

 

 

John 1:16-17 (KJV)

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

Why does he say he is guarding it till it blazes?

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49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.

53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

 

 

- Gospel of Luke, Ch. 12

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Why does he say he is guarding it till it blazes?

 

It is an expression that means that he want us to see through it (the world). The world and all it's material trappings is "death". Jesus wants everyone to percieve the eternal truth.

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Please read post 62 before you post in this thread again. Thank you.

 

Apech, I have to ask you.

 

Why is it ok for you to support a derailment of my thread while you seem to be adamant about preserving the integrity of this thread?

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/31912-ramana-quote-does-not-belong-in-cn-norbus-latest-book/?p=486201

 

Apech, on 15 Oct 2013 - 07:58, said

Do you play cricket?

 

 

 

I find it kind of hypocritical, especially considering "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

 

So I'm doing it unto you.

Like it?

 

:)

TI

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Apech, I have to ask you.

 

Why is it ok for you to support a derailment of my thread while you seem to be adamant about preserving the integrity of this thread?

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/31912-ramana-quote-does-not-belong-in-cn-norbus-latest-book/?p=486201

 

 

 

 

 

I find it kind of hypocritical, especially considering "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

 

So I'm doing it unto you.

Like it?

 

:)

TI

 

Because this thread is about going through the verses of the Gospel of Thomas and discussing them ... its not for me it was a group decision.

 

Whatever you feel about me is up to you but here I am acting as Steward of this sub forum.

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Hooray for politics!

 

...

 

 

And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the Lord: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.
- 1 Kings, Ch. 18:24
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
- Corinthians, Ch. 3:13-15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
- Revelation, Ch. 20:14
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