Communal living

[DeadDragon]

Does anyone know of or have any interest in forming a community that abides by the principles of the Tao Te Ching?

 

I would imagine characteristics would involve complete self sufficiency, a reliance on nature, caring for nature. A simple way.

 

We can make our own soap, clothing, shelter, food, tools, etc.

 

We may have to utilize many modern conveniences in the beginning I imagine.

 

Anyone who wishes to come and join or visit should be free to do so, of course. No obligation to stay there either. Anything we have that we don't need can be given away.

 

I don't think we will have to pay taxes and therefore not worry about income as long as we establish that we are a "church" with the government.

 

I am flexible to any insight you may have to offer, it is not "my way or the highway".

 

Personally I don't really have any earth skills (I do have some ideas), though I am willing to learn and work. I do have a fair bit of money (possibly enough to buy land) and knowledge regarding qigong healing. Not that I am a master or anything, I'm willing to learn from others in regards to this as well - but I feel confident at least that I can keep myself safe and healthy without medicine or doctors, and show others how to do the same if they don't know already. There's probably many ways of doing so, qigong or not. I don't think there should be any forced ritual or spiritual practices or anything like that. Practice if you want to in the way that resonates with you, or perhaps we can establish some common group practice...I don't know.

 

This will have to be a group endeavor, the more involved the better I think. I am not without flaw but I can get along with anyone.

 

What do you think?

Edited August 31, 2013 by DeadDragon

[voidisyinyang]

communes - the problem is leading the horse backwards.

 

modern people - "what you see is what you believe" - the problem is hard-wired psychophysiologically.

 

Exorcisms.

 

Energy going beyond property boundaries, physical boundaries, personal boundaries.

 

I lived in a house of 35 people - owning the house, part of a 10 house collective - long before doing any meditation work....

 

Then I went to the most traditional Berber village in Morocco - thousands of years of self-sustained living - the women farmed using humanure compost, made the clothes from herded wild sheep, houses built out of mud-adobe, mountain water channeled down using rocks.....

 

But they had stink bomb black pails to scare off evil spirits and trance music.

 

Not exactly alchemical meditation but close - I'd be curious to see if they had any of the 40 day sufi fast training there. haha.

 

I lived in a cabin in Alaska with no electricity and no running water - but the owner of the cabin was a sociopath....

 

So yeah communes have a long history of going bad - Peter Coyote narrated a good doc on comunes....from the 60s-70s.

 

Sure people might have good intentions - but the issue is subconscious - spiritual.

 

So really the need is for a real energy master to guide the training.

 

You can find that....

 

as far as finding a good place to train - yeah that is the big fundamental issue.

 

Even monasteries freak out about meditation that it too intense.

[DeadDragon]

I'm sorry you have had bad experiences within various communities. The Amish have been around for hundreds of years so it's most definitely possible to have a successful community. There are still communities around that were formed in the 60's and 70's. All about finding the right people, and establishing a good plan.

 

I'm sorry but you cannot dissuade me from what I know in my heart is the right way, the only way, whether my approach may be flawed.

 

I have no idea why it's proving to be so hard to find people who are actually interested in practicing unconditional love, kindness, and respect for all beings no matter their distinctive qualities. That is all the protection you need from any negativity. It's like nobody actually read their Bible or Tao Te Ching or other religious text.

 

Cars those are not respectful to nature. Pollution that is not respectful. Modern society is not respectful. Not that I am trying to make you feel bad about who you are, that is just my observation. Like I said I am not perfect, I hope you can forgive me.

 

Peace, love, harmony, health, happiness to you and all. Good thoughts are good, good actions are better.

Edited August 31, 2013 by DeadDragon

[voidisyinyang]

You can find Buddhist meditation "communes" - I found one in Canada -- -- never went to it...

 

but yeah so you are naming the Amish as "successful"? Right there that disqualifies you as a member of any commune I would want to join. haha.

 

Have you seen the Amish cable shows? The people who try to escape the Amish, etc.?

 

I have nothing against the Amish and I totally respect the luddite mentality.

 

I'm just saying that the elderly Amish retire in condos in Florida -- and the whole communes of the Amish is based on patriarchy and bare-footed females.

 

Again it's not necessarily wrong - it's just they don't practice any real meditation or yoga, etc. -- they don't really challenge the status quo that much.

[DeadDragon]

Well yeah if I thought that the Amish were doing it right, I would've joined them instead of posting this. I was just saying that communes exist, without necessarily being always doomed to fall apart.

 

Buddhist commune no thanks. If people cannot accept anyone no matter their religious beliefs or lack thereof, no thanks. If people cannot accept someone if they don't want to wear clothes (I like to wear clothes but I don't care if others don't), or whether they eat meat or not, no thanks. If they cannot respect nature in every way, no thanks. If they are not at least trying to respect their own selves, then no thanks.

 

If other people wish to act like that, that's OK. I have no desire to live and work with them.

 

I could go live in a cave and be OK with that, I am not all that concerned. But I know that this is not the way. So I will continue to seek the right people.

Edited August 31, 2013 by DeadDragon

[ion]

I think something like this is a good idea. Most hippy type communes are a failure because all the people involved are self absorbed, or in the cases where they arent, some body always moves in who some how ruins it for everyone, and they are a hunting ground for pedophiles.

 

OR

 

Or the person who owns the place is an egomaniac and or a power tripper or something like that.

 

You read in all these old stories about monastic type temples etc, and then compare them to what we have today which are all highly institutionalized religions with a statified heirarchy, or buddhist themed giftshop/retreat setting for rich people who are being had by a charlatan.

 

A place for a person to goto, to renounce the world to pursue what they see as their path, to live a simple life style or whatever is pretty much unavailable to most of us in this generation.

 

I find that there is no religious freedom in our country because I am at the point where my path is a battle with the unwritten laws of this country and the forced servitude to the false belief that we work 40 hours a week just to survive. It is against the unwritten laws of this country to be truly content with little, because we are forced into working to fulfill exaggerated needs.

 

It is even against the law to go into the wilderness to live like a lone hermit. The only land you can stay at for free is BLM propperty and there is a 2 week time limit. I actually did drop out and live in the wilderness for the sake of seeking a hermitage, but I ended up living like a fugitive, hiding from government employees.

 

I've often thought that if I had the money that I would invest it in a piece of land and open it up to likeminded others. Not a commune with forced expectations and some communal farm or ideal, but something more egalitarian where a person had space and autonomy.

 

The true likemindedness would be the key to making it work. I know for a fact that producing enough food to even have surplus to sell would not be an issue, so the other key would be that those involved were content with next to nothing and largely free from desire

[DeadDragon]

Yeah you're right. I guess my ideal is trying to create a decently comfortable sanitary and simple life for myself and anyone else interested, eventually not having to rely on money or required barter...by producing everything ourselves. Where nature and each other is respected. Where everyone has access to the same stuff. Where all excess is given away. Outside of that people can do whatever they want.

 

Perhaps that is too restrictive or not to anybody else's liking, there are plenty of other communities out there.

Like Twin Oaks and Acorn Community which you may find to be more to your liking, which I will probably just have to settle for something like that to begin with.

ic.org is a good website too.

 

Not having health care is certainly not for the weak of heart, probably something most people can't handle. Not that I am opposed to making natural medicine, if other people need it...not something I know how to do though.

 

Maybe I should try and find some Native Americans who would take me in...

 

Thank you all for your help and conversation. It is appreciated.

Edited August 31, 2013 by DeadDragon

[Protector]

Worst idea ever

 

There's a preconception about what spirituality is and having a hippie commune is living up to the stereotype but sticking the word Tao on top of it. It's nice for the planet and all, but it's at the cost of loosing any spiritual progress made until that point. Living off land and trying to have the most simple living regresses a person to the basic survival needs: thinking about how to get food, making clothes to keep warm, thinking about how not to die.

 

The first time real progress is made when a person has food, shelter, and all needs fulfilled. Then the mind could be clear to realize greater things in life and where that person stands. It can be realizing that all this time the search for luxury and entertainment was pointless and harmful to something or other, and leaving society to restore balance becomes a self-sacrifice. There are others who leave society for self improvement but that is a test to see that they don't loose themselves if they feel that they want to come back. Being away won't change their true self, though.

 

Living simply and wanting other to leave the evil society is selfish. It's everyone's planet, and not just the ones who care for it. There were many great advances in science and civilization spread throughout the planet, it's a great force that influences everyone. Regressing back to the old ways is against the Tao and not something that will save the planet and society at large.

But you know, if you want to do it, it's fine

[DeadDragon]

Hey I never said anyone has to conform to my ideas. It doesn't say anything about what you're saying in the Tao Te Ching though. You don't have to sit down or close your eyes to meditate. Although it's good for beginners to start that way. One can meditate with eyes open, hearing noise, even while doing work, as long as it doesn't require higher brain function. Your external life is just as important as your internal life. The Tao Te Ching suggests a way of life. Not just a way to find enlightenment by sitting all day.

 

Whoever said anything about trying to save the planet? I want to live in accordance with nature that's all.

 

If you can make plastic without hurting nature, please tell me how. If you think nature approves of you driving around in vehicles, ok then you do that.

 

"Living simply and wanting other to leave the evil society is selfish." You can do what you want, I just wanted to find some like minded people.

 

And when you have a community, you have more free time not less. Certainly not 40 hour work weeks. Especially if all you are concerned about is basic needs. Except in the forming stage if one does not join an established community. 1 person cooking for 10 takes less time, energy, and resources than 10 people cooking for themselves. That is just one example, it is true of all aspects.

Edited August 31, 2013 by DeadDragon

[Protector]

I just really hate the thought of the commune thing, everyone has some dumb reason for doing it and I don't like it.

 

Meditation is not the goal or the way, it's a tool for the means.

 

Chapters of interest 2, 5, 8, 9, 10, 17, 21, 22, 23, 27, 29, 30, 33, 35, 36, and that one episode of Daria with the hippies

[DeadDragon]

That is just what I am called to do. Or what the universe suggests for me at this time. "Find the Tao within yourself and follow it"

"Love the world as you would love yourself"

 

I can feel it, the Tao Te Ching, and the divination are all in agreement. I do feel as if it is the greatest book ever written, Lao Tzu has saved my life and helped me many times (literally speaking, not just from reading his words), even when I had not called to him. He is the one I trust the most, short of Tao.

 

I'm still kind of young so not quite do I express all the qualities described in it all the time, such as right now. Nor do I expect anyone else to follow me or it, either.

 

Many people have lived in communes for a long time. Thousands of years you know. In ancient China, villages were formed by 8 families with a central plot of shared farm land in the center, and a well. Supposedly Lao Tzu also lived in a village before he became a historian, grew tired of the corruption and retired.

 

I'm not here to debate philosophy and semantics and what's the right or wrong thing for me or you to do. I know what to do now and that is to find some Native American tribe to join. Peace and thank you for the discussion.

Edited August 31, 2013 by DeadDragon

[Rara]

This is a very good thread...seeing two completely opposite sides to the spectrum.

 

I wouldn't say "worst idea ever" Maybe for some, but everyone on their separate paths are entitled to threir own adventures.

 

Perhaps this will work for you @DeadDragon . I certainly like your "non-obligation" angle. That way, it seems like it is yourproject that others can contribute as much or as little to.

 

I have had similar thoughts myself, but concluded that my reasons would be to run away from my responsibilities, rather than to create a genuinely Taoist life.

 

My family needs me, and whatever I can provide for them is a big part of my way.

 

But as I said, we are all on different paths. If this isyour calling, who am I to disagree?

[Rara]

Also, I am happy to see a thread that compares such a simple text/philosophy to what has become a movement that focuses heavily on cultivation. Like you say, meditation is a tool but not the central part if we are referring to the Tao Te Ching. Thank you for bringing this to the forum!

[voidisyinyang]

Twin Oaks or Acorn community - they all rely on having some cash economy somehow - so like they Amish - they have to sell things in the market economy or produce things or try to create some collective business together.

 

It's a big distraction from meditation.

 

The Buddhist commune I was thinking of just practiced meditation and then relied on bulk food items.

 

Sure you gotta save up some money to do it - but that's what I would do.

 

I used to cook with another person for 35 people -- once a week. Yes the co-operative I lived in shared our house chores -buying food in bulk to save money - so better quality organic food.

 

But again the big issue is the modern male psychophysiology - you get the alpha chimp dynamics with rape and warfare as the subconscious goals.

 

Who will be the dominant? Etc.

 

It's all based on a misunderstanding of meditation.

 

Already people on this thread are mad at you - saying that "going backwards" is against the Tao! hahah.

 

I totally agree with you that modern society is against Taoism.

 

I think Plato was against Taoism and yet a lot of people on this forum waste their time on Plato as part of their studies, etc.

 

Everything based on Plato is against Taoism - so all of Western civilization is against Taoism.

 

This forum is against Taoism - it's based on computers and uses dualistic language.

 

So even if Western language was used at a commune then the language would be against Taoism.

 

It takes a lot of unlearning for real Taoism.

 

Orthodox pythagorean philosophy is real Taoism -- but this was covered up by Platonic philosophy.

 

I already went into details on this but people freaked out - how dare I !!!

 

hahaha.

 

Yes real philosophy is very radical.

 

I biked for 10 years and I dumpster dived for food.

 

You do what you can.

 

Currently I do humanure composting to grow my own food.

 

We made 13 pints of pickles and more on the way.

 

anyway I clear the forest to heat the house and to increase the biodiversity in the forest.

 

But yes Nature will reclaim itself against modern Westernized civilization.

 

Automation means less jobs.

 

logarithmic-based technology means a logarithmic-based economy with oppressive inequalities of wealth causing the lower emotional blockages. I call this the rotten root - a play on the "surd" from absurdity.

 

Things have been messed up for a long time.

 

The original human culture shared everything - the Khoisan Bushmen - from 100,000 BCE - they did this by having all the males train to be qigong masters when the males reach puberty.

 

So communal living is good but it's still addressing the symptoms and not the psychophysiological root cause.

 

Communal living can be a good first step - an important one.

 

I have worked for many nonprofits - they are more communal focused - sometimes - but not always.

 

Currently I live with four females -- females naturally sublimate their energy despite constantly being submerged in patriarchial perv culture. So modern females try to be like males - the technofeminists - but still modern females are better than modern males.

[Protector]

I'm against spirituality as a way of life, this thread greatly reminded me of that.

Spirituality should be an aid, not the focus. Lots of people have enlightenment as their goal in life and that annoys me. They get so excited that they want to throw everything else away, but they can have both with no compromise. No need to become a monk, travel far away, or put years into it. I say, do both or it's not worth it. This commune thing is like that to me, plus it's way against Tao.

 

Imagine you want to become a sage, so you quit your job, sell your house and move to the mountains. There you build a camp where you start a fire, store your food, make sure there's no one to disturb you, and meditate. Everything is perfect and how you envisioned. You meditated on your way there, you meditated when you thought of that, and you meditated before you thought of that. To fulfill your vision you had to destroy everything to rebuild your new you on top of it. It worked and you became a sage, monk, hermit, or something else. It has been done by many people before and they are doing fine, they are not a part of the society though.

 

Another shame is gurus who are full time gurus, they have knowledge and guidance for many modern problems and can help people. It's a shame because they would be so much more powerful if they used it themselves. They would be gone now if they didn't follow they way and became visible to us. The knowledge is free and they are everywhere for everyone to see.

 

The best example of a commune that is going against Tao is actually the Amish. They are self sustainable, nice, and happy. The reason that they are against Tao ,like other similar communes, is because they are on the path of destruction. It is very plainly seen in the "Meet The Amish" series, there are four parts and easy to find on youtube. Amish kids are, or some of them, allowed to leave a community for a while to decide to stay Amish or leave. Ideologies crash and Amish upbringing usually wins, but for how long? They are a very small bunch of people that doesn't agree with the rest of the world, all of the world. The time stopped for them centuries ago, they were normal for the world of the past, but the future will sweep them away. Anything can happen, all the kids could decide to leave or ideologies will stop matching the rest of the world so much that everyone could hate them.

 

Somebody could manage the old fashioned one with nature life, but it wont be easy and so no one will follow and there will be no further survival in that, it's doomed. Tao is eternal, it's not in the past or the future or anything. Gripping to something and hoping that it will work, will eventually stop working and it's time to let go and move on. It's easier to go with the crowd and so everyone will. If you want to change things, fighting it is the hardest thing to do. The easiest thing is to lead the pack to change things.

Run with it but run faster, wu wei, yo.

[voidisyinyang]

if you achieve enlightenment then it is a permanent psychphysiological transformation.

 

There is no turning back.

 

Your energy will constantly reflect impurities around you - emotional, nutritional, etc.

 

So again let's say you train in your room. Great - but if you achieve "stabilization" - your room is a different environment because who you are is something no longer contained by your room.

 

Ghost pollution for example is more of an issue in cities.

 

Qigong master Chunyi Lin said it sometimes takes him a couple visits to a room to clear out the spirits or bad energy, etc.

 

 

It has been done by many people before and they are doing fine, they are not a part of the society though.

 

So this is not true - because the aura expands and includes nonlocal communication - beyond spacetime.

 

Spirit travels into the future and changes the past.

 

For example Chunyi Lin went to a sacred Taoist mountain in China and he did 2 months of nonstop full lotus cave meditation.

 

Then he returned back to society to heal people.

 

Jim Nance quit his job and meditated 6 to 12 hours a day and even all night long at the Spring Forest Qigong Center....

 

so yeah to become a qigong master does take total concentration.

 

It's rare because a person needs to create that safe space which is no longer honored.

 

This is why traditionally a person first trains to be a kungfu master - that way the person can fight off anyone who threatens their ability to continue purifying their energy.

[Protector]

These are all the things that stops a person from being a part of society, if you say all that to a random person on the street that is.

 

If someone wants to get healed, they go to a doctor.

 

Qi gong is also just a means and not the way, just like meditation.

[ion]

How is it selfesh to form a group with like minded peopole? If you have reached the realization that the best thing you can do for humanity is out side of society, and that it is because of society that you can no longer pursue down your path, how is it selfish to live simply?

 

I think the idea is quite the opposoite of anti-sociall, but I do find that our society its self is anti-social and that is partly why I would like to start a new way of life.

 

This society is destroying the planet and is out to gentrify everyone which I'm sorry but is to skew your spiritual evolution.

 

I agree that having your needs met allows your mind to rise to higher thinking, but truly meeting your needs, along with being content with little.

 

You said it protector, having your needs met and not struggling for the simple necessities is what allows a mind to evolve. However, our society never lets you meet your needs.

 

It takes 2 hours average, 4 hours tops of light work a day to meet yourneeds and beyond living an organic lifestyle. The systemm tells you it takes 40 hours a week and that you've never actually met them, put are just making payments on them.

 

I do grow food and it is far more empowering to reduce your desire for materiel crap, and to actually know that YOU can meet YOUR OWN needs, rather then scrambling around in desperation to get a job that either directly or indirectly is screwing up the earth and contributing to the consumer society and its aim to gentrify the world, begging a bunch of capitolists, competing with your brothers and sisters so that someone can employ you/ barely give you enough to scrape by til your next check, and meet your needs.

 

I'm actually in the middle of setting something up like this with freinds. A community with others who do not fit in nor want to with society.

 

Were all very productive people spiritually minded and capabable/experienced in producing bulk ammounts of food, through gardening and livestock.

 

People are good and important. I've tried the hermit thing and it is definitely good to have the abilty to completely drop out if and when you need to, but people are important as far as keeping sanity and remaining emotionaly balanced and able to experience joy.

 

I've also lived off grid bymyself with out a car orr electricity. Nothing but me and an infant and I grew food all day, but realized I needed people in my life badly. Its part of our design to be a part of some sort of social group and to have regular contact with people, to give to others and to recieve from others.

 

Society does not have a monopoly on any of that and in my opinion the current trend in our society causes in sanities in the same way isolation can, because society keeps most of us in the egotistical position, either by pleasing us with materiel wealth, or placing us in a mental place of worry about meeting our needs.

 

There is no place to just be.

 

If land ownership was non-existent which I believe it should be because it is a basic human right to have a place to live, not a privalege to work fo;r and by that I dont mean a house, just a piece of land that you can grow food, gather food or hunt or fish for food- yes I do think that is a human right, the system, its stress and insanities would go through such a postive transformation, that it would no longer be this particular system, just like this particular system is no longer the system it once was.

 

I believe people require autonomy to evolve. I also believe this system denies people of that.

 

I think it is interesting that what some people call selfish, I call progressive in the name of humanity, and what they call not selfish, I find to be something that is appearently devoted to destruction.

 

But thats just it, if we have different opposing views, why cant we go seperate ways? If we have different views, why cant we have ours? Why do we have to live out yours?

 

I am capable of caring for myself, and I quite love doing it. Most people find a very natural satisfaction from growing and harvesting a crop, it aids in spiritual evolution and links you with Tao. No greater feeling then hooking your freinds up with more produce then they can eat.

 

It is not a desperate scramble to survive when you are working directly for your needs, unlike the system where you never actually meet your needs because you actually have a job doing clerical work for the consumer society and have lost that connection with the earth and humanity and dont even know how to meet your needs directly.

 

Humanity doesnt equal the system, so dropping out does not equate to anti-social behavior, in fact in this day and age it can be seen as quite humanitarian to drop out, considering the course society is on.

[voidisyinyang]

In Brazil it's now illegal for large land owners to let their land sit idle, not growing food, after 7 years.

 

Venezuela has similar laws.

 

The rich see real estate as a tax evasion and speculation - which then gets bailed out by the working class.

 

My cousin, same age as me, has a 2 billion dollar real estate company all based on that scam.

 

So yeah I grow food but I don't own the land - and so the mind-controlled bourgeois think unless you have cash income then you should be forced to get a job.

 

Actually wtih $2 or less a day as the income of 3 billion people - most people still rely on growing food and selling whatever they don't eat.

 

But like with women in India - unless you own the land - then they have no rights and are not considered real farmers.

 

It's due to patriarchy - "plowing" the land is raping the land.

 

The Native Americans considered gardening to be the female connection to the earth and so the whites forcing the Indian males to cut their hair and be farmers was the equivalent of a forced sex change.

 

To cut your hair meant to be homosexual.

 

So anyway ....

 

consider national forests - it costs $12 a night to camp in one! That's amazingly expensive.

 

The Twin Cities has a new program to glean left over fruit crops to donate to food shelves - food is a human right.

 

So yeah getting grants to grow food in the cities is great - money is not real value - food is real money.....

 

anyway... I planted fruit bushes and nut trees here but since my work takes less priority than some other stuff I do - so then it is neglected. I need to transplant the fruit bushes and weed the nut trees - rebuilt the deer fencing, etc.

 

Shud buy or make a bow to hunt deer also....

[voidisyinyang]

http://pinterest.com/pin/323203710728953615/

 

yep I've been bringing up the backyard hens to the property owner - --

 

no we're not eating our pets! haha.

 

That was my solution for the long winters here.....

 

so the whole "domesticated" animal versus wildlife deal is a perfect Taoist conundrum.

 

We've got a house cat that gets to freely kill the tropical song birds that have flown thousands of miles to summer here.

 

I've tried everything but always the cat gets defended by the property owner.

 

Funny how the truth is that ecological ignores property lines.

Edited August 31, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Aetherous]

First step is to form your Taoist religious organization, and then file for tax exempt status. Also look into property tax exemption, which I am pretty sure is a separate consideration...so that you don't have to owe hundreds each year for your land. Or at least find land with cheap property taxes...some are less than $100 a year. Make sure the land is zoned so that you can farm and have residential buildings. Make sure you have a clean source of water, that your soil is good, etc. There is really a lot to consider if you plan for your future, and you must become proficient in working the system...or else you'll get screwed over.

I would personally not worry so much about going off grid and being fully self sufficient, as I would about just living closer to nature...especially in the beginning. No one will want to join you if it's uncivilized...but "if you build it, they will come". An especially important consideration, I think, is making the buildings with good feng shui. I really like Baolin Wu's book, as well as Vastu (from India, which seems to be a much more complete system of knowledge).

Consider having an income...you can have the place be an organic farm, partnered with Organic Valley for instance. This way, you're supporting positive food practices in the bigger society, as well as getting a steady income from the cooperative. Free range grass fed dairy, to the highest quality, is something many people want. Do beekeeping and sell (and eat) that. Cultivate specialty plants...for instance, Saffron is a very expensive spice. Or personally, I was thinking of having an Ashitaba farm and making the raw stalks (with the yellow sap and its healing properties) more well known in America.

In addition, I would host meditation retreats there once you get the buildings set up...don't limit it to Taoism. Invited teachers of all traditions. Have the cost be reasonable compared to other retreat centers. Basically, an income makes you comfortable so you won't have to worry about basics of survival...and it also makes you capable. You will be more capable to actualize your dream of being a self sufficient community of like minded individuals, who give away their excess production.

[Rara]

Liking the contrasting views. Alls I gotta say in addition is that surely as modern-day Taoists we should still be ok to go with the flow within our current societies, especially now that we have trained enough to be mindful and realise exactly what and where we are...

[Protector]

It's selfish to think that the world belongs to one person and that person is responsible for its well being, or anyone to think that actually hmmm

 

People have spiritual needs, too. At first they don't realize it, but after consuming everything from food to intellectual property, they yearn for more. They don't know what that more is, yet, but they want it still. Before they were on the path they didn't know that that feeling even existed, but they want more spirituality like it's a thing they can buy.

 

With that new hunger they want to go to meditation seminars, buy candles, get lessons, become something. Then they get lost and look for others with similar interests to tell them what to do and then you get the communities. That's when all these people sing the same song of "society being evil", "money is evil", "these people are hurting everybody" and so on.

 

The first spark that started this came from the self and it could have been enough with just a new way of looking at the world that could make it even more beautiful. But it suddenly becomes evil. There's no need to go all the way out to feel happy, it's enough to have nothing, happiness is self-made.

 

It's alright to have your own small community of like-minded people, even though you get the idea about how great your future is going to be from others in their communities with their grassy hills and trees. Thank you, hippies. Way to raise the bar.

But know what could work just as well? The Internet

 

The rest is easy, you're as free as your mind is. You can stand anywhere in the world, as long as you have something underneath your feet, close your eyes and you can be anywhere you want. If you open your eyes and see ads on the buildings, stressful people, and corruption everywhere, then you won't be free even if you do leave society. ch48

 

The system is not what it seems ch29 it's even kinda easy to fight it ch36 if you feel like it ch43

[DeadDragon]

"It's selfish to think that the world belongs to one person and that person is responsible for its well being, or anyone to think that actually hmmm"

 

Who said this? Where are you drawing these conclusions from? Everyone has their own individual responsibility, nothing more, nothing less.

 

It seems many other people treat their spiritual life and worldly life as separate. I've made this mistake before. Going far beyond the veil and getting my *** kicked by the universe.

 

If you're happy with nothing, then go do just that. If you can cope with the incredible pain of death by dehydration, doing it with a smile on your face, go ahead. Stick your hand in the fire, and hold it there. Big words let's see you prove it.

 

You don't have to tell me about the cycles. I know what the cycles hold for this world, great suffering is what allows for the opportunity of great growth. The "great awakening" is coming, and I would like to avoid as much unnecessary suffering as possible, and to provide the same for others, by learning to become what the world wants me to be. A person who has all the knowledge and skills and resources for basic survival and good health for the indefinite future, done so in a way that is respectful to nature, which I feel that everybody soon may need (or already need), that the large majority of people including me were never taught.

 

The land is going to be free soon enough (at least America, that I know of), though it is going to come at a great cost. The lessons needed to be learned will be hard, and for many people impossible. Anything that doesn't abide by nature will be destroyed. A person, a society, etc. There are many people working to delay the inevitable. Although I can happily report that humanity will not all be destroyed.

 

"Find the Tao within yourself and follow it"

 

I don't have to tell you what God / Tao / the great spirit / whatever wants of you, which very few people understand. Because what God wants of you is different for everyone, and different depending on the moment. If you cannot perceive it, many different divination tools are available, or people who can do it for you if you do not have the skill or ability for that either.

 

Though "it" does want certain things from all of us all the time. Which you will find in almost every religious / spiritual text or teaching. Respect, kindness, gratitude, all of the aspects of "love" basically. Sure we may not practice all the time, but that is OK, we either learn or suffer.

Edited September 1, 2013 by DeadDragon

[voidisyinyang]

There's this Buddhist monastery in Missouri - theraveda tradition by a white dude but the lady runs it.

 

So I contact her about moving there to meditate.

 

Oh you gotta spend half your time doing construction projects, etc.

 

Oh gee I thought it was a place to meditate!

 

Why even go? I already spend half my time doing physical labor. haha.

 

Seriously - I want a place where people want to meditate.

 

Nothing else.

 

Chunyi Lin spent 2 months in full lotus nonstop.

 

That's a meditation place.

 

Westerners want to build fancy Western construction b.s. -- just can't escape the materialist mindset.

 

Just throw up a $20 tent just big enough to sit in full lotus.

 

The only requirement is not to be bothered!

 

I know that is asking too much.

 

Someone is sure to hassle you.

 

Winter time?

 

Throw some rugs over the tent - reinforce with more stakes -- get a snow suit.

 

Have a couple 50 pound bags of organic brown rice and pulses (lentils or black beans).

 

Complete protein.

 

Dried greens for minerals - magnesium, potassium, calcium.

 

Potatoes.

 

That right there is more than enough food.

 

Real meditation should mean fasting also.

 

But anyway there you go.

 

Nope instead you gotta spend half your time doing unnecessary "edifice complex" projects.

 

No thanks.

 

Instead people get all self righteous.

 

How dare you want to meditate all the time?!!

 

Of course you need to spend half your time doing physical labor construction, etc.

 

hahaha.

 

The real most famous meditation monk of Thailand - theraveda tradition....

 

Meditated ALL the time!

 

Had his students meditate in areas infested with tigers.

 

Just used the chi energy to keep the tigers away.

 

Fear of death is the best to induce samadhi.

 

Rain?

 

Just make a tarp out of your robe - or something like that.

 

Just real minimal supplies - an umbrella maybe and that's it.

 

food?

 

beg.

 

Milarepa.

 

Food? wild stinging nettles.

 

See you try that here and people will call the cops or the ambulance or something.

 

I did 10 days nonstop meditation - just liquids.

 

Whenever I got threatened - just went out side for some physical labor to prove I had energy and I didn't need a doctor.

 

I had to transmit energy the whole time to exorcise the demons so I wouldn't get attacked - I mean to fill up the vacuum from the bad energy I was sucking in from the people around me.

 

SO I was never storing up energy - I just transformed the energy around me.

 

so it's not the same as having a safe place to meditate without being bothered.