longevity - good or bad?

[narveen]

cicero ( i don't know who he is) said he found four causes for the misery of old age:

 

1. it withdraws us from active accomplishments;

2. it renders the body less powerful;

3 it deprives us of almost all forms of enjoyment; and

4 it stands not far from death.

 

i will add one more,

 

5. ugly.

 

are people crazy or downright mean and putting a curse when they wish each other a long life?

 

 

[yondaime109]

Age ain't nothin but a number.

[Songtsan]

As long as the mind palace exists, and one keeps it clean, it is good. Who cares about our external forms? Youth. Cops. Evil people, people who don't understand. They each exist to denigrate the other. When we stop thinking is when we die, so all thoughts stop at death...thinking is fun! We all do it all the time. Why not do it forever, until we die? Then we can each have ourselves a ball. Long life is fun as long as one isn't in crazy pain..if pain overrides pleasure, press the kill button, but only if it has been happening for years and no one can fix it, otherwise, stay alive and be merry. Longest lived person is supposedly 140, but it's not been proved. Imagine the fun that guy had? He must have had a Mind Palace made of Gold! Why stop there. Next life we do it again, but with better medical expenses. Sitting in the Mind Palace is bliss, but only if one knows how. If he doesn't (or she), then the pain becomes terrible as we focus on the outside stuff. Next stuff is this: we each came before, but will come again, so why be attached to long life at all? Don't ever stop being merry, but if it's time to stop, then let it begin. No one likes us, everybody hates us, guess I will go feed the worms. Don't be a burden to the system, but if you can stand it, let everyone else take care of you as long as you can make it in good faith. If bad faith exists, drop the stop. Push the button. This means, don't let anyone take your life away, but if you plan on going, go soon, or else, don't be a burden to society. What this means is this: If I am costing $500,000 a month in hospital bills and some poor kid in Thailand can't go to school because his mother has to sell herself to survive, maybe we should take a look at eachother and say this, "Is it time to die, should I pull the plug?" Then one says, "Isn't suicide evil?" "Nope," not if you are taking so much resources and energy to survive that you eat everyone else's muffins. I can't decide...Should I stay alive and eat everyone else's muffins (and time), or just go out in the snow and do the right thing? Eskimos know the right way, so should we. Look at that video I posted somewhere about that 100+ guy who was still able to walk&talk. He's a good guy. Then we should stop talking now. Sorry, I don't exist, and I will never grow old either, because I am a Toys'R'Us Kid!

[Rara]

Have you ever seen a 70 year old with vitality and high spirits? Have you ever seen a 70 year old who's given up on the world and looks like s***?

 

Despite ageing, you can stay young inside that will show on the outside!

 

Be happy always and live healthy. All things in moderation my friend...that way, you'll want to stay here forever.

[Tsunami_MAPUA]

You don't know Cicero? He's a Roman orator! He's also known as the person who formulated the so-called Method of Loci in mnemonics.

 

With that said, it's not necessary that you be miserable in old age.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Tsunami_MAPUA

[Marblehead]

Nice responses so far although I must make it known that I disagree with Songtsan regarding suicide. This is because it is my opinion and understanding that suicide is counter to "the Way of Tao". Chuang Tzu spoke sweetly on this subject.

 

So, to the five points in the opening post: Old age is:

 

1. it withdraws us from active accomplishments;

 

Wrong. Only yesterday the father of the woman owner of the house across the street from me came over and asked if I would help him out with the electrical portion of his daughter's in-ground swimming pool. A couple hours work and a trip to the store to buy a new switch and the work was done. Everything working great.

 

His daughter, in her mid-thirties, has a boyfriend who had no knowledge of how to fix the thing and there was another young guy there who apparently was not knowlegeable either. So the old men did the work because we knew what to do and how to do it.

 

2. it renders the body less powerful;

 

Not true, I have as much power today as I had when I was in my mid-twenties. Oh, sure, I am slower and I need more breaks between work sessions but when I see some young men who have never had a work session in their life I feel extremely powerful.

 

3 it deprives us of almost all forms of enjoyment; and

 

Enjoyment? I've already done it all. And now I can do again those things I enjoyed the best.

 

4 it stands not far from death.

 

Every day in our life is that way. We never know what might happen two hours from now.

 

5. ugly.

 

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. When my neighbor's young daughter jumps into the swimming pool after it is cleaned up she is going to think it is pretty darned beautiful and she will remember that it was two old men who made that possible.

 

And yes, I still get women hitting on me. I don't do women any more but it is a nice feeling knowing that there are women younger than I am who think I am still worth something.

 

However, I do agree that if a person wishes to "pull the plug" they have every right to do so. Afterall, it is their life. But I will never recommend it.

[Songtsan]

Nice responses so far although I must make it known that I disagree with Songtsan regarding suicide. This is because it is my opinion and understanding that suicide is counter to "the Way of Tao". Chuang Tzu spoke sweetly on this subject.

 

Chuang Tzu wasn't omniscient..perhaps he didn't realize what today would be like...such as people being hooked up on machines to keep them alive an extra month for $100,000 a week of medical care. Again, when people in China are starving. People starve all over the world. There IS a time to pull the plug, and this IS in accord with the Tao. Unless you think you know the Tao Just kidding, of course I don't know the Tao either, but neither do you, and neither does Chuang Tzu!

 

I am not saying to force someone to pull the plug fyi - just give them the choice to be merciful to themselves and the rest of the world...you can believe whatever you want, as long as when its my turn to pull my own plug, you don't get in my way.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Songtsan

[Marblehead]

Chuang Tzu wasn't omniscient..perhaps he didn't realize what today would be like...such as people being hooked up on machines to keep them alive an extra month for $100,000 a week of medical care. Again, when people in China are starving. People starve all over the world. There IS a time to pull the plug, and this IS in accord with the Tao. Unless you think you know the Tao Just kidding, of course I don't know the Tao either, but neither do you, and neither does Chuang Tzu!

 

I am not saying to force someone to pull the plug fyi - just give them the choice to be merciful to themselves and the rest of the world...you can believe whatever you want, as long as when its my turn to pull my own plug, you don't get in my way.

Hehehe. I knew I was going to get into trouble for that comment of mine but it needed to be said. I do agree with you though regarding trying to alter the natural processes.

 

Personally, no, I will not be hooked up to a bunch of tubes just because it is my time to go and I don't want to go. I have no fear of death. With any luck I will die here at home. But then, I'm not going to welcome it either.

 

No, I don't know Tao. I just spoke to that in another thread. But I do know a lot of the "Ways of Tao". And it is my observation that it's not time to go until you have finished your job. No, we never know what our job is so we really never know when it is finished and it's time to go. But to rush it is not natural nor is going to extremes to prevent it. Once again I say: We all are going to die.

[Songtsan]

Hehehe. I knew I was going to get into trouble for that comment of mine but it needed to be said. I do agree with you though regarding trying to alter the natural processes.

 

Personally, no, I will not be hooked up to a bunch of tubes just because it is my time to go and I don't want to go. I have no fear of death. With any luck I will die here at home. But then, I'm not going to welcome it either.

 

No, I don't know Tao. I just spoke to that in another thread. But I do know a lot of the "Ways of Tao". And it is my observation that it's not time to go until you have finished your job. No, we never know what our job is so we really never know when it is finished and it's time to go. But to rush it is not natural nor is going to extremes to prevent it. Once again I say: We all are going to die.

 

My main concern is to be of more use to the world than the world is to me. If by ending life early, I can make the life of someone else better x10 from a young age, then this is what I will do.

[Marblehead]

My main concern is to be of more use to the world than the world is to me. If by ending life early, I can make the life of someone else better x10 from a young age, then this is what I will do.

Okay. Just be careful of who you are helping and what impact you think it might make.

[narveen]

Long life is fun as long as one isn't in crazy pain..if pain overrides pleasure, press the kill button,

 

 

Next stuff is this: we each came before, but will come again, so why be attached to long life at all?

 

 

No one likes us, everybody hates us, guess I will go feed the worms.

 

 

Don't be a burden to the system, but if you can stand it, let everyone else take care of you as long as you can make it in good faith. If bad faith exists, drop the stop. Push the button.

 

 

This means, don't let anyone take your life away, but if you plan on going, go soon, or else, don't be a burden to society.

 

 

What this means is this: If I am costing $500,000 a month in hospital bills and some poor kid in Thailand can't go to school because his mother has to sell herself to survive, maybe we should take a look at each other and say this, "Is it time to die, should I pull the plug?" Then one says, "Isn't suicide evil?" "Nope," not if you are taking so much resources and energy to survive that you eat everyone else's muffins.

 

 

I can't decide...Should I stay alive and eat everyone else's muffins (and time), or just go out in the snow and do the right thing? Eskimos know the right way, so should we.

 

[Apech]

My main concern is to be of more use to the world than the world is to me. If by ending life early, I can make the life of someone else better x10 from a young age, then this is what I will do.

 

 

Would you like us to make the arrangements?

[narveen]

You are mean. Why are you on a spiritual forum for raising consciousness?

 

if your spiritual consciousness is that lofty, you would be aware that the misery of old age is a personal thing.

 

it is MY opinion that one of the causes of MY misery in old age is MY ugliness.

 

you have a problem with that?

[Marblehead]

You are mean. Why are you on a spiritual forum for raising consciousness?

He's a Christian. Some Christians are that way.

[Apech]

I know a ton of christians. They are each individual. Bear in mind I dont live in the US, and I dont have any acquaintance with christian fundamentalists.

 

I dont believe it is christian to see old people as ugly. I believe it is superficial and immature.

 

 

A ton of Christians ... in a big truck?

[Marblehead]

I dont believe it is christian to see old people as ugly. I believe it is superficial and immature.

Totally agree. My best friend is Christian. He was here this morning prior to going off to church. And you are right too that people are people, not good to judge in generalities. I did try to avoid doing that in my above post.

[Apech]

did you have breakfast with your best friend? if so.. what did you have!

 

They had waffles with maple syrup (just a guess).

[xor]

Looks like a repeat of Sree's Tao of Dying. Best stay out of this troll's pit.

[xor]

ham and eggs.

 

I'll take the eggs and give the ham a proper burial...

[Marblehead]

did you have breakfast with your best friend? if so.. what did you have!

Actually, we both just drink coffee in the morning. He is very easy to please.

[yondaime109]

I can't wait until I get old.

[Marblehead]

I can't wait until I get old.

Hehehe. But you have to wait. Just the way life is. We can do only one year during one year.

[narveen]

I have a problem with your attitude, yes. You are terse and callous and in the post I have quoted here, facetious, unhelpful, self centred and your communication is combative and harsh.

 

i am sorry you feel that way. i need to be more sensitive to your feelings. there some pretty tough guys around here and my style is geared to conversing with them. please keep me informed and allow me to clarify any statements you find offensive and allow me to address the problems they create.

 

I am not sure if you are a troll. You dont appear to have any interest in genuine communication, only an interest in propagating your own callow conclusions.

 

i am not aware of propagating anything. please point my conclusions out.

 

for your information, my spiritual path is about throwing conclusions out until there is none. i have been calling out other people's conclusions that i once held and debating them. i am extremely interested in the outcome of those debates. the buddha got to zero conclusions by the time he was 36. i am 35 and time is running out for me. all that perceived harshness on my part is not directed at anyone, it comes from my sense of desperation to resolve issues.

 

i don't intend to live past 45 and will push the button then even if i don't get to zero.

Edited July 1, 2013 by narveen

[Marblehead]

Just letting you know that I have read this post and your reply to Cat is appreciated.

[Apech]

i am sorry you feel that way. i need to be more sensitive to your feelings. there some pretty tough guys around here and my style is geared to conversing with them. please keep me informed and allow me to clarify any statements you find offensive and allow me to address the problems they create.

 

 

i am not aware of propagating anything. please point my conclusions out.

 

for your information, my spiritual path is about throwing conclusions out until there is none. i have been calling out other people's conclusions that i once held and debating them. i am extremely interested in the outcome of those debates. the buddha got to zero conclusions by the time he was 36. i am 35 and time is running out for me. all that perceived harshness on my part is not directed at anyone, it comes from my sense of desperation to resolve issues.

 

i don't intend to live past 45 and will push the button then even if i don't get to zero.

 

the Buddha was the Buddha and you are not the Buddha ... I don't recall him ever saying you had to 'do it' by 36 or emulating him in that sense. Why the cut off at 45 ... you don't know how you will feel when you reach that age ... maybe you will become very wise and happy. Don't make these predictions they will come back to haunt you.