Translated Texts

[Kongming]

Hello, I was wondering if anyone could tell me or point me to a list of which original Taoist material has been translated as I plan on expanding my Taoist library if possible. As of now I own some of the obvious ones such as the Tao Te Ching, Chuang-Tzu, Wen-Tzu, Lieh-Tzu, and Secret of the Golden Flower. I also have "Jade Writing: Yellow Court Classic."

 

With that said, are there any more important texts out there which are translated? Particularly interested in any of a philosophical, alchemic, or meditation focus in a similar vein to those listed previously. Wikipedia says that the Daozang consists of over 1400 texts so I imagine there has to be more material out there.

 

Also a sub-question instead of creating an entire thread: How reliable/accurate/respected is the Jonathan Star translation of the TTC?

 

Thanks in advance for any information!

 

 

[Slim]

I'm rather fond of Fabrizio Pregadio's translation work. His focus is mainly on important texts of alchemy. You could check out his website www.goldenelixir.com.

 

Thomas Cleary has also translated a number of texts, what he lacks in accuracy he makes up for in quantity.

 

Enjoy your reading.

 

PS if you like the early stuff the Neiye is also worth looking at. Although perhaps not historically important (it was lost for a couple millennia) it is a fun read. You could check out Harold Roth's translation.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

don't miss the Nei Ye.

 

best to find translators and then find their translations. Cleary, Predagio, and Komjathy seem to be the busiest.

 

For Dao De Jing, the Star translation is very good. I would say Lin Yutang is the most accurate. You might enjoy some of my translation commentaries in the Personal Practice Section.

[Mudfoot]

best to find translators and then find their translations.

 

Best is to find a teacher that can explain what the books are saying and how to do it.

But they do look good on the shelf.

I think I have 6-7 versions of the Daodejing myself...

 

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Best is to find a teacher that can explain what the books are saying and how to do it. But they do look good on the shelf. I think I have 6-7 versions of the Daodejing myself...

 

Yeah, cause those authors weren't good teachers right? ppshhh..

[Jox]

Any useful link to material in pdf?

[Riyue]

Hello, I was wondering if anyone could tell me or point me to a list of which original Taoist material has been translated as I plan on expanding my Taoist library if possible. As of now I own some of the obvious ones such as the Tao Te Ching, Chuang-Tzu, Wen-Tzu, Lieh-Tzu, and Secret of the Golden Flower. I also have "Jade Writing: Yellow Court Classic."

 

With that said, are there any more important texts out there which are translated? Particularly interested in any of a philosophical, alchemic, or meditation focus in a similar vein to those listed previously. Wikipedia says that the Daozang consists of over 1400 texts so I imagine there has to be more material out there.

 

Also a sub-question instead of creating an entire thread: How reliable/accurate/respected is the Jonathan Star translation of the TTC?

 

Thanks in advance for any information!

 

 

Have a look at

http://www.taoistresource.net/doe_idx.htm

 

You find there translations and original texts of Daozang...

Edited June 28, 2013 by Riyue

[Mudfoot]

Yeah, cause those authors weren't good teachers right? ppshhh..

 

Or because they used metaphorical language to conceal the actual practice?

 

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Or because they used metaphorical language to conceal the actual practice?

 

Not all of them.. and many of the ones that do will use terms that have been defined in other text, or will not seem too strange following various meditative experiences. Keep in mind that much of that sort of explanation is simply describing the natural processes that occur when keeping the basics together during meditation. These basics are explained quite clearly in many many texts, which if followed will lead one past various sign posts.. if the basics are not followed the car breaks down and you only get so far, but you can learn how to at least build this vehicle by seeing the commonalities that these texts begin with.

 

A good teacher is certainly a major benefit and at certain levels entirely necessary, but if you haven't left for the mountains yet, these writings are still immensely beneficial to help you get started.

 

All the best in your practice....

Edited June 28, 2013 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Mudfoot]

Than your library have other classics than mine. Mine can be interpreted on multiple level (sexual, organ qi, primordial), while not actually being precise about how to do it, or use a language in which I can mirror my meditative experience but that is retrospective confirmation, not guidance.

For balanced practice, both are needed?

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Which texts do you work with?

[Kongming]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I read Neiye which I enjoyed greatly and am onto reading some of those linked in the thread. Also I am not sure how useful this text is compared to others since it is hagiographical, but I found this book:

 

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1794293.To_Live_as_Long_as_Heaven_and_Earth

 

Here is a PDF link for anyone interested: http://bookos.org/book/1140347/60d161

[steve]

Any useful link to material in pdf?

Here's a link I like regarding Nei Yeh. I also like Roth's translation.

[Shao Leeroy]

Try this:

Daoist Texts in Translation
~ Louis Komjathy

http://www.daoistcenter.org/texts.pdf  

[Marblehead]

That looks like a pretty comprehensive listing.

[E Birdy]

On 6/28/2013 at 12:53 AM, Riyue said:

 

 

Have a look at

http://www.taoistresource.net/doe_idx.htm

 

You find there translations and original texts of Daozang...

 

This link is dead, but I found a live site with copies.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170517120411/http://www.taoistresource.net/doe_idx.htm

[ChiDragon]

On 6/25/2013 at 4:45 PM, Kongming said:

Also a sub-question instead of creating an entire thread: How reliable/accurate/respected is the Jonathan Star translation of the TTC?

Can you post Chapters 1 and 5 of his translation? Then we go from there!

[Cobie]

 

16 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Can you post Chapters 1 and 5 of his translation? Then we go from there!

 

 

His DDJ is on Terebess at https://terebess.hu/english/tao/st.pdf pages 6 and 10. (It doesn’t allow copying)
 

 

Edited Thursday at 10:45 PM by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

On 6/25/2013 at 4:45 PM, Kongming said:

Also a sub-question instead of creating an entire thread: How reliable/accurate/respected is the Jonathan Star translation of the TTC?

From the translation of Line 1 of Chapter 1, it indicates that the translation was way off.
"A way that can be walked is not The Way

A name that can be named is not The Name

Tao is both Named and Nameless

As Nameless, it is the origin of all things

As Named, it is the mother of all things"

Tao may be the way(of principles) , but the way is not Tao. Tao is alive, it is not a walkway. However, Tao was treat as a walkway in his translation which is incorrect.

Tao is not Named nor Nameless. You(有) and Wu(無) are used as proper nouns, thus it should not be translated at all. Tao was named as You(有) and Wu(無) were given at two present states. You(有) is in a visible state and Wu(無) is in an invisible state.

How reliable/accurate/respected of the translation? I shall reserve my comment on that or you may have your own judgment. 

PS
Tao is not nameless. It is because Tao has two given names: You(有) and Wu(無).

Edited Thursday at 11:40 PM by ChiDragon

[Cobie]

 

21 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

From the translation of Line 1 of Chapter 1, it indicates that the translation was way off.
"A way that can be walked is not The Way …"

Tao may be the way(of principles) , but the way is not Tao. Tao is alive, it is not a walkway. However, Tao was treat as a walkway in his translation which is incorrect. …

 

I agree. 

 

 

[Cobie]

 

21 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

.…Tao has two given names: …

DDJ ch. 25 says we do not know the name:

吾不知其名
強字之曰"道"

I don't know its name.
I'm reluctant to call it "Tao".

 

Spoiler

link https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/55128-invisible-was-a-name-given-to-tao-at-the-origin-of-sky-and-earth/?do=findComment&comment=1015043

 

Chapter 25 The invisible Tao.
1. 有物混成
2. 先天地生
3. 寂兮寥兮
4. 獨立而不改
5. 周行而不殆
6. 可以為天地母
7. 吾不知其名
8. 強字之曰"道"
9. 強為之名曰"大"
10. 大曰逝
11. 逝曰遠
12. 遠曰反
13. 故道大
14. 天大
15. 地大
16. 人亦大
17. 域中有四大
18. 而人居其一焉
19. 人法地
20. 地法天
21. 天法道
22. 道法自然

1. There was a thing formed by chaos;
2. Before heaven and earth were born;
3. Soundless and formless;
4. Independent and stable;
5. Continuously cycling but never exhausted;
6. It may be the mother of heaven and earth.
7. I don't know its name.
8. I'm reluctant to call it "Tao".
9. I'm reluctant to name it "Big".
10. Big says dynamic;
11. Dynamic says far;
12. Far says reciprocating.
13. Therefore, Tao is great.
14. Sky is great.
15. Earth is great.
16. Human is great.
17. In space, there are four great's;
18. Thus human is one of them here.
19. Human follows Earth.
20. Earth follows Sky.
21. Sky follows Tao.
22. Tao follows its own nature.
 

未智（知）其名， 
字之曰道。 

Not yet knowing its name, 
We refer to it as the Dao. 

 

Spoiler

Guodian Terebess Henricks 2000 

 

又状虫成， 
先天地生， 
敚[糸禾]， 
独立而不亥， 
可以为天下母。 
未智（知）其名， 
字之曰道。 
吾强为之名曰大。 
大曰筮， 
筮曰远， 
远曰反。 
天大、地大、道大、王亦大。 
国中又（有）四大安（焉）， 
王居一安（焉）。 
人法地， 
地法天， 
天法道， 
道法自然。 

There is a form that developed from primordial chaos 
That was born before heaven and earth. 
Silent and still, it stands on its own and does not change. 
... 

It can be regarded as the mother of all under heaven. 
Not yet knowing its name, 
We refer to it as the Dao. 
Were I forced to give it a name, I'd call it the Great. 

The "Great" means "overflowing"; 
"Overflowing" means "going far"; 
"Going far" means "to return." 

Heaven is great; the earth is great; the Way is great; and the king too is great. 
In this realm there are four greats, and the king counts as one of them. 

Humanity takes as its model the earth; 
The earth takes as its model heaven; 
Heaven takes as its model the Way; 
And the Way takes as its model that which is so on its own.

 

 

Edited Friday at 09:36 PM by Cobie