Primordial qigong aka Tai Chi for Enlightenment

[moment]

4 hours ago, rideforever said:

Well ... I did learn Michael Winn's version a few years ago and practiced it daily for about 2-3 months.   But nothing really.

It is a complex form and unless you can feel the meaning of each movement I don't see the point, each movement should be practiced individually, because there are many, it is quite complex and also very long and physically demanding, my arms used to ache.

Other forms of Michael Winn's or individual movements, are much more understandable.

I don't think practicing complex stuff that you don't understand is meaningful.

I do know that Arnold Tayam used to have a one movement wuji gong, where you raise your hands upwards rotate anticlockwise and lower your hands, returning clockwise, repeat ... I assume this is to unwind yourself to zero.

Working with energy is quite subtle and sophisticated and I don't know how many people are really feeling what is intended.

Also returning to the source is not quite as simple as unwinding your arms .... or mixing the earth and sky .... or drawing endless zeros on paper or doing Bagua in 8 directions.   

These are nice guesses, but what is missing is an understanding of how the human being manifests from the energetic centre of the Source to the energetic centres of the human ... and seems nobody knows that.   They don't even know where the source is, what the heart is, what the dantien is .... really madhouse and a million ideas.

Anyway, it keeps people employed !!!

Oh, is there anyone who is not a Grandmaster Sifu Dragon anymore ???   Because I would like to meet him, or her.

 

so busy

[moment]

enlightenment, what a concept

Edited June 8, 2019 by moment

[rideforever]

On 06/06/2019 at 4:21 PM, phil said:

Best Demonstration of WujiGong I have seen on Youtube

is anyone still practicing it?

 

I like this version, but I notice he also has a jazzed up version.   What does that mean ?  Why jazz it up, didn't it work ?
 

 

[Aetherous]

3 hours ago, rideforever said:

Why jazz it up, didn't it work ?

 

I would think - to make it appear cooler to onlookers, and maybe incorporate some more martial principles. But I'd think it would work less well in the jazzed up way.

[Starjumper]

On 6/8/2019 at 9:57 AM, rideforever said:

I like this version, but I notice he also has a jazzed up version.   What does that mean ?  Why jazz it up, didn't it work ?
 

 

 

Haven't you guys heard of ART?    ...    or of masters?

 

Artists create art, they add some of their well advised internal flavor to it.  They like have some fun with it.

 

Masters create masterpieces.

 

Sometimes people get bored with the same ole stuff and when they happen to know enough they create interesting and powerful variations, which is different than beginners who do spontaneous chi kung 

 

In this case the jazzed up version is much better. 

 

Same thing in Tai Chi, the ultimate goal is to arrive at the formless.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Starjumper

[Aetherous]

1 minute ago, Starjumper said:

How boring must your lives be?

 

Please go back to being respectful of other forum members.

[Starjumper]

16 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

Please go back to being respectful of other forum members.

 

Thank you for your advice.  I went back and made it more respectful.

[Learner]

I have the Tai chi for Liberation dvd. I have learnt the Earth Form. It kinda stills the mind but I still don't  understand it's  health benefits like with other meditations we know what we can expect from it. What should one expect from this Primordial Qigong.

[liminal_luke]

7 hours ago, Learner said:

I have the Tai chi for Liberation dvd. I have learnt the Earth Form. It kinda stills the mind but I still don't  understand it's  health benefits like with other meditations we know what we can expect from it. What should one expect from this Primordial Qigong.

 

Hi Learner,

 

If you're going to practice this form, I'd encourage you to learn and do the whole thing. My sense is that, perhaps more than than most forms, performing just a part is of limited utility.  I like to practice very slowly but that could be just me.  As for what to expect, I suspect this varies widely with the practitioner.  For me, sometimes the form evokes a very sweet, peaceful feeling.  Sometimes I find myself standing straighter or breathing deeper.  If the form appeals to you, I'd advise committing to daily practice for some period of time with an attitude of curiosity and adventure. Be patient.  Your experience is apt to be uniquely your own.

Edited September 21, 2023 by liminal_luke

[johndoe2012]

From the Rubbo ebook which is no longer available it seems

 

Quote

From his many years of intense study, Donald found the most important aspect of achieving this
state: in the resting of the mind. It is in stillness that the monkey chatter of the mind can be
observed, and where thoughts come into existence and then fade away without the need to follow
them to distraction. Over time you will notice that there are two aspects of your mind, the
“Observer” and “What is Being Observed” (your thoughts, emotions and sensations.)
This “Observer” or “Watcher” is not a separate phenomenon from what is being observed, but is
actually a deeper part of your consciousness. You will find that the more you allow your mind to
rest in its natural state, the easier it is to be simultaneously the Observer and the Observed.
Ultimately, you will find that it becomes easier to truly inhabit the moment and become the move-
ment, in whatever it is that you might be doing, whether it’s Tai Chi Chuan, Qigong, dance, athlet-
ics, performing on stage, playing music, preparing food, basically any and all activities that encom-
pass your life.

 

Goal: non-duality, the Dao, my translation.

[johndoe2012]

I hope this is ok copyright wise, since the Rubbo domain and ebook are no longer available online.

 

Quote

Wu Ji

To begin the Primordial set, the practitioner stands in the Center (the
Earth point), facing East, and settles body, mind and spirit into the
Wu Ji state.
The Wu Ji posture is the foundation for many forms of Qigong.
Allow your mind to rest in the primordial state of non-being, the
Supreme Void, or Empty State.

 

Before movement there is stillness, and Wu Ji is the empty state of
mind before the thought of movement arises. Standing in the Wu Ji
posture prior to starting the movements in the Primordial Qigong
form prepares the body, calms the mind, enlivens the spirit and moves
the Qi. It is said that in this posture you are “doing nothing” and
“getting everything.”

 

The emptiness of the state of non-being is all encompassing, blissful; a
state that is at once nothing and everything, and the step-by-step
achievement of this state is the supreme secret teaching of Primordial
Qigong and is only taught to students in a workshop or retreat setting.
From the one, came the two, and from the two came ten thousand things. From Wu Ji (emptiness)
comes Taiji, the birth of heaven and earth, male and female, fire and water, up and down. The
practitioner partakes in the supreme creative process by resting in Wu Ji and then allowing the
thought of movement to be born.

 

The physical body has yin and yang aspects: the front parts of the body are softer yin; the back is
harder yang. The three dantiens - head (Heaven), heart area (Humanity), lower abdomen (Earth) -
should be in harmony. Without good communication between heaven and earth, we don’t feel
well, we are disconnected and our lives are unbalanced by chaos, confusion, misunderstanding and
unhappiness.
Take a moment and conceptualize the state of consciousness before your birth took place, before
you came into the world. What would that look like? What would that feel like? Contemplate the
very moment before you were born. If your mind can rest in that state of non-being, then you will
have glimpsed the profound emptiness that we refer to as Wu Ji.

 

As for people who  say Buddhism is superior, I would like to point out the many who goes into the dark knight of the soul due to vipassana and the extreme focus on insight. A very ungrounded practice IMHO. Buddhist insight needs the ming aspect and energetic work of Taoism + focus on releasing/healing trauma and ego-tendencies from healing work in whatever form (therapy,energy healing, etc etc), just my opinion.

[johndoe2012]

On 8.6.2019 at 8:07 AM, rideforever said:

Anybody ever reached "enlightenment" doing .... one of these forms ?

 

The form increases clarity or the state of no-mind

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-mind

[Antares]

8 hours ago, johndoe2012 said:

 

The form increases clarity or the state of no-mind

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-mind

If this is done correctly, but M.Winn distorted the original method, and it is difficult to understand the correct execution of the form from the video

[johndoe2012]

I just follow the Rubbo video. 

[stirling]

On 5/21/2024 at 11:20 PM, johndoe2012 said:

From the Rubbo ebook which is no longer available it seems

 

 

Goal: non-duality, the Dao, my translation.

 

This sounds like someone who actually knows what they are talking about. Where there is insight into the reality of the non-dual, but the ego grabs onto it and creates a new enlightened "Self" there is STILL a duality. This generally creates the ego-driven teachers we sometimes see, and is a natural stage of development. The enlightened "person" is generally a short-lived phenomena, thank goodness, but it does seem like some get stuck there. Even a realized person should have a teacher to point dualities like this out and complete the path.