3bob

Buddhists forum vs Vedanta forum

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Dwai, Thank you for sharing your interesting and very personal story and some of the insights from it!

 

For instance: "He didn't explain why then, but I know now -- to try to hard is to make it a chore. And a chore is not something we enjoy...we get it done and over with so we can go on with our lives"

 

Om

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Well even I mastered jyotish at one point. I came to the same conclusions as professional astrologers. Its a pseudoscience anyone can learn. Keep in mind I'm not denigrating it because Buddhism of course uses the same astrology. And yes it can be accurate.

 

 

ISKCON people are brainwashed.

 

You might consider me brainwashed, however I do not view Padmasambhava, Vimalamitra, Garab Dorje etc. as historical figures. On the other hand I believe Shiva, Parvati etc. are real.

 

 

Thats hilarious. Keep making unfounded statements. I know about even obscure details for sthapana rituals for permanent idol installations in temples. Like I said I talk to Brahmin priests a lot.

 

When I was learning Vedic astrology from my grandfather he made a comment - "the math is easy, the vision is hard". The horoscope is the framework which one applies one's vision to. It's intuition tuned into something greater than the "little" us.

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Well obviously your experience is different from mine. I grew up in a family where Advaita was considered to be the highest learning. '

 

Your knowledge of Hindu society is stymied and minuscule because you have grown up in a society where hindu dharma is practically non-existent.

 

Are you suggesting that Advaita Vedanta is some sort of central teaching that I somehow missed on?

 

And that every family is passing on Advaita Vedanta?

 

Then how come it never comes up in Indian movies? I don't recall anyone saying "Hey this is all maya, and I'm really That."

 

Spending a significant amount of time in India with various religious relatives, I don't recall anyone saying "Hey this is all maya, and I'm really That."

 

How come Indian Buddhist texts talk about Mimamsaka, Naiyayika, Samkhya, Vaisesika, Vyakarana, Ajivika, Jaina, Lokayata, but not Vedanta? Is it because Vedanta is a late copy of Buddhism?

 

The promotion of the Vedantization / homogenization of 'Hinduism' actually destroys the important teachings, which are the tantric traditions based on Samkhya.

Edited by alwayson
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Dwai, you do this a lot here on TTB's.....We all do this on the TTB's, haha.

I don't judge your practice. I just ask that you respect mine. I don't tell you or anyone that your practice is crap or nonsense or whatever.

Show me one instance where I've judged anyone's practice? Don't try to shirk responsibility for your actions by claiming that "since everybody does it, it's okay"!

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I whole heartedly agree with the context that Dwai is pointing to in post #106...

 

...and that such an outlook is the basis for well rounded, productive conversations among the many diverse or different paths or parties at this website. (thus a "live and let live" attitude without going nuts about various concepts or quotes along the lines of mine is better or truer than yours)

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Ummmm, I've promoted Advaita Vedanta (mostly Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta Maharaj) and Kashmir Shaivism (particularly the Vijnanabhairava Tantra) on the TTB's multiple times before. I've never said (or implied) that following practices along those lines is nonsense. I think that following those lines of practice can be very beneficial for most people to start out with.

 

See you see them as gradations I see them as paths into themselves. Ramana Maharshi has already given a full and complete way as has nisargadatta Maharaj or abhinavagupta or adi Shankara. None are incomplete -- but each is suited for folks with different proclivities and temperaments.

 

The rhetoric I've read from yourself and alwayson is either "Buddhism is better" or "Buddhism is older so it is the original one etc". While you of course have the freedom to state those opinions to do so in the Vedanta forum is trolling since odds are that there are those of us who frequent this forum to exchange ideas and are practitioners who neither have the time nor inclination to see whose pee rises the greatest metaphorical heights...

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Can we get back to the facts? See my previous post.

Mimamsa is also part of Vedic family. The distinction being between Purva mimamsa (aka mimamsa) and uttara mimamsa (aka Vedanta).

 

Do I need to explain to you about the composition of the Vedas? The samhitas, Brahmanas the Aranyakas and the Upanishads?

 

They are all part of the same family of texts. Each serving a different purpose...

 

Vedanta is nothing but upanishad. Research on the Upanishads, which are associated with which Veda and when the Vedas were composed. I don't have the time or inclination to teach you.

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Vedanta is nothing but upanishad. Research on the Upanishads, which are associated with which Veda and when the Vedas were composed

 

I guess you haven't heard of the three departures for Vedanta. What about Brahma Sutras and Bhagavad Gita?

 

I don't have the time or inclination to teach you..

 

Its hilarious how you use a patronizing attitude to cover your own ignorance.

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I would think that only a few like Lord Ganesha could hold in mind and heart the more or less infinite teachings related to the vastness of "Hinduism" that has aspects taking place both on earth and in all the other realms, while most of mankind could only hold parts of same in mind and heart with help from such gods and of course from the great human masters.

 

Om

 

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Edited by 3bob

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I guess you haven't heard of the three departures for Vedanta. What about Brahma Sutras and Bhagavad Gita?

 

 

Its hilarious how you use a patronizing attitude to cover your own ignorance.

 

It's evident to those who know who is ignorant and who is not. All that matters is whether you are being truthful to your self (o wait...you can't be, because you don't have a self).

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Don't you all think it is time to move on from this topic?

 

Best, Jeff

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Don't you all think it is time to move on from this topic?

 

Best, Jeff

It seems like a good idea to reach some form of 'agreement to disagree'. Any ideas of how to move forward from this situation, which looks, from the outside, as a stalemate?

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Being some kind of correlation or comparison junky has it rewards and also its drawbacks, Btw, have all the various Lama's often quoted at this website practiced all forms of Hinduism to 9th degree? No they have not, they are to busy not bugging people while following their own school. (hint)

Edited by 3bob
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No they have not, they are to busy not bugging people while following their own school. (hint)

 

Actually the Dalai Lama bugs Indians all the time about forgetting their ancient philosophies like Samkhya.

 

Thus I'm sure you would consider the Dalai Lama a troll too.

 

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Actually the Dalai Lama bugs Indians all the time about forgetting their ancient philosophies like Samkhya.

 

Thus I'm sure you would consider the Dalai Lama a troll too.

 

 

You actually consider yourself in the same league as the Dalai Lama?!?

 

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At 21:40, Dalai Lama openly trolls Ganesh, Shiva, Saraswati worshipers who have no higher spiritual purpose.

 

Of course this doesn't mean that worshiping these deities is wrong, because he later adds Buddha to the list. He is saying that there needs to be some higher spirituality.

Edited by alwayson

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At 21:40, Dalai Lama openly trolls Ganesh, Shiva, Saraswati worshipers who have no higher spiritual purpose.

 

Of course this doesn't mean that worshiping these deities is wrong, because he later adds Buddha to the list. He is saying that there needs to be some higher spirituality.

 

Why would I want to worship a (minor) deity & not the Ultimate itself?

 

In Vedanta, Brahman is the Ultimate not Ganesh, Shiva & Saraswati.

Adi Shankaracharya never mentioned to "worship Ganesh/Shiva/Saraswati" he only talked about Brahman-Nirguna/Saguna.

 

In Pali text Buddhism, Conditioned consciousness ceases to be when one attains Nibbana which is the "unborn, undying, unbecoming."

 

The human language & thought fail past a certain point to be able to explain & express certain realities.

Ex. The behavior of quarks......Please tell me how that works in the ultimate sense.

 

Essentially, a unified field of existence (to be qualified) is what we're looking at when it comes to Ultimate reality

 

Later

Edited by stefos

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stefos,

 

From the textbook of Dr. Upinder Singh (daughter of prime minister and noted historian):

 

"The earliest formal exposition of Advaita or non-dualistic Vedanta was put forward by Gaudapada in the 7th or 8th century in his Mandukyakarika, a verse commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad. Gaudapada was influenced by Madhyamika and Vijnanavada Buddhism."

 

Also the Mandukya Upanishad itself was influenced by Mahayana:

 

Hajime Nakamura, Trevor Leggett. A History of Early Vedānta Philosophy, Part 2. Reprint by Motilal Banarsidass Publ., 2004 page 284-6

 

"As was pointed out in detail in the section titled Interpretation, many particular Buddhist terms or uniquely Buddhist modes of expression may be found in it."

 

"From the fact that many Buddhist terms are found in its explanation, it is clear that this view was established under the influence of the Mahayana Buddhist concept of Void."

 

"Although Buddhistic influence can be seen in the Maitri-Upanishad, the particular terms and modes of expression of Mahayana Buddhism do not yet appear, whereas the influence of the Mahayana concept of Void can clearly be recognized in the Mandukya-Upanisad."

 

"Although Mahayana Buddhism strongly influenced this Upanisad, neither the mode of exposition of the Madhyamika school nor the characteristic terminology of the Vijnanavada school appears."

 

If you want to see the verbatim verses Gaudapada took from Madhyamaka, you can click:

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=sx12hxoFVqwC&pg=PA88&dq=The+Method+of+Early+Advaita+Ved%C4%81nta+It+is+not+a+matter+for+dispute+whether&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wr8ZUZ7iGceR0QGHuID4Cw&ved=0CDMQuwUwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20Method%20of%20Early%20Advaita%20Ved%C4%81nta%20It%20is%20not%20a%20matter%20for%20dispute%20whether&f=false

 

So why do you hate Madhyamaka and Mahayana as noted in the other thread?

 

Also, isn't Samkhya the definitive Hindu philosophy as it forms the underlying basis of the tantras?

 

My understanding is that tantrics like Abhinavagupta held the tantras higher than the Vedas and Upanishads.

Edited by alwayson

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